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(Vice)   Television is in a showrunning crisis. Farkers will point to the last few seasons of "Doctor Who" as a prime example   (vice.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Executive producer, Television program, 2008 singles, Show runner, television writer industry, Writing, Dr. Seuss, television writer  
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1156 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 08 May 2022 at 12:36 PM (20 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



45 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-05-08 9:08:22 AM  
It's not a crisis.  It's just a changing landscape.  Instead of a very regimented environment with few opportunities, there's now more varied opportunities, but also more competition.  Eventually, a lot of these streamers will either merge together or die off and we'll be back to a more stable system, but one where diverse creators actually have a shot now.
 
2022-05-08 9:10:04 AM  
"Doctor Who" trifecta in play?
 
2022-05-08 9:29:28 AM  
I would have gone with Star Trek as the show most desperately in need of better show runners
 
2022-05-08 9:36:46 AM  

Gubbo: I would have gone with Star Trek as the show most desperately in need of better show runners


Lower Decks is pretty good and Strange New Worlds is off to a decent start.  I've also heard positive things about Prodigy, although I haven't tried that one yet myself.
 
2022-05-08 9:47:18 AM  
You mean to tell me that Hollywood and/or the people in it got high off the smell of their own farts once again and have been handing out jobs and money like water to underexperienced writers and producers based off of someone having an acclaimed success with a thing once, and now they can't figure out what's going wrong and why they've lost the magic?

Hollywood works best when there's someone in the mix to tamp down the excesses of the writers, producers, and directors.  We've seen what happens when there's nobody there to tell George Lucas or his successors that they are writing garbage, or to tell certain directors to knock it off with the lens flares and explosions and super grimdark filters.

And as is relevant to Doctor Who, a certain Moffatroll and Chinballs who were pretty good at writing when they had someone over them to veto their bullshiat, but once they were put in charge just decided to film their own fan service fan scripts and call it canon television.  They're the living earth equivalent of that energy being in that one episode of Futurama.

/Welshie! Noooooooooo!
 
2022-05-08 9:49:05 AM  

Gubbo: I would have gone with Star Trek as the show most desperately in need of better show runners


Anything that airs on Faux News needs better show runners, in the moral and ethical sense.  Or they need better show runners in the sense of running the hosts right out the door of the studios and into prison.
 
2022-05-08 12:43:21 PM  
More and different kinds of people can now aspire to TV's most important job-but streaming and COVID have set them up to fail.

I'm pretty sure what "set them up to fail" isn't streaming and COVID but rather lack of creativity and talent.
 
2022-05-08 12:46:00 PM  
Another made up term because due to scuzzy behavior the term producer became too toxic to use
?

Yeh, that's a crisis.
 
2022-05-08 12:54:41 PM  

NeoCortex42: Gubbo: I would have gone with Star Trek as the show most desperately in need of better show runners

Lower Decks is pretty good and Strange New Worlds is off to a decent start.  I've also heard positive things about Prodigy, although I haven't tried that one yet myself.


All those things.
 
2022-05-08 12:59:25 PM  

Leader O'Cola: Another made up term because due to scuzzy behavior the term producer became too toxic to use
?

Yeh, that's a crisis.


All terms are made up.

"Showrunner" has been around for a while. It's just more front-and-center as shows are more creator-driven than network-driven these days. Personally, I like it as a way to distinguish who is actually running the show versus the dozen other people that manage to get producer/EP credits.
 
2022-05-08 1:01:22 PM  

NeoCortex42: It's not a crisis.  It's just a changing landscape.  Instead of a very regimented environment with few opportunities, there's now more varied opportunities, but also more competition.  Eventually, a lot of these streamers will either merge together or die off and we'll be back to a more stable system, but one where diverse creators actually have a shot now.


It will be interesting to see what dies off and what consolidates.

I am surprised Apple TV is still around, Netflix seems determined to kill itself off, Disney+ seems to be doing fine, Peacock+ probably has a catalog that will allow it to survive for a while, Hulu seems to be okay for now, and Amazon Prime seems fine since they are backed by Amazon as a "secondary" service.

There are farkers that know more about streaming services that I do because I do not have any other than Peacock+ because I got a year of that from Spectrum for free, and have Amazon Prime though I barely use the streaming.
 
2022-05-08 1:07:16 PM  
Is subby implying that there were good seasons of Doctor Who?
 
2022-05-08 1:09:53 PM  

OhioUGrad: NeoCortex42: It's not a crisis.  It's just a changing landscape.  Instead of a very regimented environment with few opportunities, there's now more varied opportunities, but also more competition.  Eventually, a lot of these streamers will either merge together or die off and we'll be back to a more stable system, but one where diverse creators actually have a shot now.

It will be interesting to see what dies off and what consolidates.

I am surprised Apple TV is still around, Netflix seems determined to kill itself off, Disney+ seems to be doing fine, Peacock+ probably has a catalog that will allow it to survive for a while, Hulu seems to be okay for now, and Amazon Prime seems fine since they are backed by Amazon as a "secondary" service.

There are farkers that know more about streaming services that I do because I do not have any other than Peacock+ because I got a year of that from Spectrum for free, and have Amazon Prime though I barely use the streaming.


The services backed by Scrooge McDuck piggy banks (Apple, Amazon) will be fine.

The services with extensive first-party back catalogues (Disney+, HBO, Hulu, Paramount, Peacock) will be fine.

Everything that relies on licensed content (Netflix) will get priced out of the game.

All of the specialty niche services (History Channel Vault, Gizmoplex, Discovery+, etc) will get swallowed into other services.
 
2022-05-08 1:12:30 PM  
Is your show running?  Then you better go catch it!

That's... that's all I got.  I'll go now.
 
2022-05-08 1:15:28 PM  
I could g##gle what a show runner is, but fark definition will be funnier.

no, I don't know what I'm doing in this thread either.
 
2022-05-08 1:17:37 PM  

OhioUGrad: NeoCortex42: It's not a crisis.  It's just a changing landscape.  Instead of a very regimented environment with few opportunities, there's now more varied opportunities, but also more competition.  Eventually, a lot of these streamers will either merge together or die off and we'll be back to a more stable system, but one where diverse creators actually have a shot now.

It will be interesting to see what dies off and what consolidates.

I am surprised Apple TV is still around, Netflix seems determined to kill itself off, Disney+ seems to be doing fine, Peacock+ probably has a catalog that will allow it to survive for a while, Hulu seems to be okay for now, and Amazon Prime seems fine since they are backed by Amazon as a "secondary" service.

There are farkers that know more about streaming services that I do because I do not have any other than Peacock+ because I got a year of that from Spectrum for free, and have Amazon Prime though I barely use the streaming.


You forgot HBO Max, which is probably the best overall service. They have the best combo of originals, legacy (read: old) shows/movies, and kids content with Cartoon Network and such
 
2022-05-08 1:19:39 PM  

NeoCortex42: OhioUGrad: NeoCortex42: It's not a crisis.  It's just a changing landscape.  Instead of a very regimented environment with few opportunities, there's now more varied opportunities, but also more competition.  Eventually, a lot of these streamers will either merge together or die off and we'll be back to a more stable system, but one where diverse creators actually have a shot now.

It will be interesting to see what dies off and what consolidates.

I am surprised Apple TV is still around, Netflix seems determined to kill itself off, Disney+ seems to be doing fine, Peacock+ probably has a catalog that will allow it to survive for a while, Hulu seems to be okay for now, and Amazon Prime seems fine since they are backed by Amazon as a "secondary" service.

There are farkers that know more about streaming services that I do because I do not have any other than Peacock+ because I got a year of that from Spectrum for free, and have Amazon Prime though I barely use the streaming.

The services backed by Scrooge McDuck piggy banks (Apple, Amazon) will be fine.

The services with extensive first-party back catalogues (Disney+, HBO, Hulu, Paramount, Peacock) will be fine.

Everything that relies on licensed content (Netflix) will get priced out of the game.

All of the specialty niche services (History Channel Vault, Gizmoplex, Discovery+, etc) will get swallowed into other services.


MST3K is a weird one because the rights to the movies from old episodes aren't guaranteed to always be available. And some episodes like Final Sacrifice may never be available to stream
 
2022-05-08 1:23:03 PM  

Lady J: I could g##gle what a show runner is, but fark definition will be funnier.

no, I don't know what I'm doing in this thread either.


The article's point is that there is no fixed definition, which really seems more of the article author's problem than anyone else's.

The show runner is the one who decides the general direction of the show and can decide on specifics when they want to.  They are a combination of head writer and producer; how much of one or the other depends on the show as there is no standard job description.

...But there doesn't need to be.  Whatever works for your production is what you obviously need, whether it's the same as what some other show does or not.
 
2022-05-08 1:25:52 PM  

TDWCom29: NeoCortex42: OhioUGrad: NeoCortex42: It's not a crisis.  It's just a changing landscape.  Instead of a very regimented environment with few opportunities, there's now more varied opportunities, but also more competition.  Eventually, a lot of these streamers will either merge together or die off and we'll be back to a more stable system, but one where diverse creators actually have a shot now.

It will be interesting to see what dies off and what consolidates.

I am surprised Apple TV is still around, Netflix seems determined to kill itself off, Disney+ seems to be doing fine, Peacock+ probably has a catalog that will allow it to survive for a while, Hulu seems to be okay for now, and Amazon Prime seems fine since they are backed by Amazon as a "secondary" service.

There are farkers that know more about streaming services that I do because I do not have any other than Peacock+ because I got a year of that from Spectrum for free, and have Amazon Prime though I barely use the streaming.

The services backed by Scrooge McDuck piggy banks (Apple, Amazon) will be fine.

The services with extensive first-party back catalogues (Disney+, HBO, Hulu, Paramount, Peacock) will be fine.

Everything that relies on licensed content (Netflix) will get priced out of the game.

All of the specialty niche services (History Channel Vault, Gizmoplex, Discovery+, etc) will get swallowed into other services.

MST3K is a weird one because the rights to the movies from old episodes aren't guaranteed to always be available. And some episodes like Final Sacrifice may never be available to stream


Yeah, there's that too. Shout has done a really amazing job doing as well as they have, though.
 
2022-05-08 1:28:02 PM  

NeoCortex42: TDWCom29: NeoCortex42: OhioUGrad: NeoCortex42: It's not a crisis.  It's just a changing landscape.  Instead of a very regimented environment with few opportunities, there's now more varied opportunities, but also more competition.  Eventually, a lot of these streamers will either merge together or die off and we'll be back to a more stable system, but one where diverse creators actually have a shot now.

It will be interesting to see what dies off and what consolidates.

I am surprised Apple TV is still around, Netflix seems determined to kill itself off, Disney+ seems to be doing fine, Peacock+ probably has a catalog that will allow it to survive for a while, Hulu seems to be okay for now, and Amazon Prime seems fine since they are backed by Amazon as a "secondary" service.

There are farkers that know more about streaming services that I do because I do not have any other than Peacock+ because I got a year of that from Spectrum for free, and have Amazon Prime though I barely use the streaming.

The services backed by Scrooge McDuck piggy banks (Apple, Amazon) will be fine.

The services with extensive first-party back catalogues (Disney+, HBO, Hulu, Paramount, Peacock) will be fine.

Everything that relies on licensed content (Netflix) will get priced out of the game.

All of the specialty niche services (History Channel Vault, Gizmoplex, Discovery+, etc) will get swallowed into other services.

MST3K is a weird one because the rights to the movies from old episodes aren't guaranteed to always be available. And some episodes like Final Sacrifice may never be available to stream

Yeah, there's that too. Shout has done a really amazing job doing as well as they have, though.


It's weird because there are like, 10 random episodes on Peacock. About 1 per season. No rhyme or reason, especially since Universal owns a bunch of season 8-10 episodes
 
2022-05-08 1:31:29 PM  

TDWCom29: NeoCortex42: TDWCom29: NeoCortex42: OhioUGrad: NeoCortex42: It's not a crisis.  It's just a changing landscape.  Instead of a very regimented environment with few opportunities, there's now more varied opportunities, but also more competition.  Eventually, a lot of these streamers will either merge together or die off and we'll be back to a more stable system, but one where diverse creators actually have a shot now.

It will be interesting to see what dies off and what consolidates.

I am surprised Apple TV is still around, Netflix seems determined to kill itself off, Disney+ seems to be doing fine, Peacock+ probably has a catalog that will allow it to survive for a while, Hulu seems to be okay for now, and Amazon Prime seems fine since they are backed by Amazon as a "secondary" service.

There are farkers that know more about streaming services that I do because I do not have any other than Peacock+ because I got a year of that from Spectrum for free, and have Amazon Prime though I barely use the streaming.

The services backed by Scrooge McDuck piggy banks (Apple, Amazon) will be fine.

The services with extensive first-party back catalogues (Disney+, HBO, Hulu, Paramount, Peacock) will be fine.

Everything that relies on licensed content (Netflix) will get priced out of the game.

All of the specialty niche services (History Channel Vault, Gizmoplex, Discovery+, etc) will get swallowed into other services.

MST3K is a weird one because the rights to the movies from old episodes aren't guaranteed to always be available. And some episodes like Final Sacrifice may never be available to stream

Yeah, there's that too. Shout has done a really amazing job doing as well as they have, though.

It's weird because there are like, 10 random episodes on Peacock. About 1 per season. No rhyme or reason, especially since Universal owns a bunch of season 8-10 episodes


I'm guessing it's something weird about episode syndication rights more than the movie rights.

MST has the most scattershot availability between YouTube/Pluto/Rifftrax/VHX/Gizmoplex. I am so glad I was able to just acquire the whole series years ago and store them locally. And a ton of that was legitimately buying the DVD releases and ripping them.
 
2022-05-08 1:52:05 PM  
The term "showrunner" appears nowhere in the credits of your favorite show-people who have this job are listed as writers and executive producers.

I mean... they are listed that way because that's literally what a Showrunner is, an Executive Producer.  They're very much the exact same thing and the two terms have identical definitions in every functional way.

The ones who are credited as writers should complain to their guild about how they're credited... or maybe they aren't actually the showrunner and calling them that is an empty PR stunt that doesn't actually reflect what they're doing on the show.

This is an actual job that does specific things, and the title has an actual meaning, it's not do-nothing bullshiat non-work like being a CEO despite them both having "executive" in the title.
 
2022-05-08 2:10:47 PM  
oh come on dr who being garbage isn't a recent thing.
 
2022-05-08 2:30:59 PM  
Does your dad
Have a show
If he does
Let me know
Lemme see if I can run it, run it
Lemme see if I can run it, run it
 
2022-05-08 2:38:47 PM  
In January of 2018, for example, John Rogers, a television writer and longtime showrunner, tweeted, "Today was my fourth, maybe fifth lunch with a showrunner-level writer where we basically said, 'What the fark is going on with television right now?' shiat is officially on fire."

...yo.
 
2022-05-08 2:45:53 PM  

Unsung_Hero: Lady J: I could g##gle what a show runner is, but fark definition will be funnier.

no, I don't know what I'm doing in this thread either.

The article's point is that there is no fixed definition, which really seems more of the article author's problem than anyone else's.

The show runner is the one who decides the general direction of the show and can decide on specifics when they want to.  They are a combination of head writer and producer; how much of one or the other depends on the show as there is no standard job description.

...But there doesn't need to be.  Whatever works for your production is what you obviously need, whether it's the same as what some other show does or not.


thanx

So somebody needs to be maintaining a helicopter view, and have some kind of plan.  doesn't matter who it is, but it's pretty disastrous if you haven't got one.
 
2022-05-08 2:55:36 PM  

Jim_Callahan: The term "showrunner" appears nowhere in the credits of your favorite show-people who have this job are listed as writers and executive producers.

I mean... they are listed that way because that's literally what a Showrunner is, an Executive Producer.  They're very much the exact same thing and the two terms have identical definitions in every functional way.

The ones who are credited as writers should complain to their guild about how they're credited... or maybe they aren't actually the showrunner and calling them that is an empty PR stunt that doesn't actually reflect what they're doing on the show.

This is an actual job that does specific things, and the title has an actual meaning, it's not do-nothing bullshiat non-work like being a CEO despite them both having "executive" in the title.


Every showrunner is an executive producer, but not all executive producers are really showrunners.
 
2022-05-08 2:57:49 PM  
Wait'll people see whom the new Doctor is going to be.

At this rate, the regeneration after him will be trans paraplegic Doctor who identifies themself as a dolphin-dragon with fur.
 
2022-05-08 2:59:02 PM  

AAAAGGGGHHHH: Wait'll people see whom the new Doctor is going to be.

At this rate, the regeneration after him will be trans paraplegic Doctor who identifies themself as a dolphin-dragon with fur.


c.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2022-05-08 3:24:40 PM  

AAAAGGGGHHHH: Wait'll people see whom the new Doctor is going to be.

At this rate, the regeneration after him will be trans paraplegic Doctor who identifies themself as a dolphin-dragon with fur.


They've had aliens that look like salt shakers, a tarp with a face, and the entire Moon.

But apparently a black dude is a bridge too far.
 
2022-05-08 3:38:07 PM  

DoctorCal: Does your dad
Have a show
If he does
Let me know
Lemme see if I can run it, run it
Lemme see if I can run it, run it


Burma Shave?
 
2022-05-08 3:43:15 PM  

AAAAGGGGHHHH: Wait'll people see whom the new Doctor is going to be.

At this rate, the regeneration after him will be trans paraplegic Doctor who identifies themself as a dolphin-dragon with fur.


People don't like you.
Watch them roll their eyes when they're done talking to you.
 
2022-05-08 3:50:59 PM  
korean dramas are superior television compared to typical american/western shows.

quite simply, they are story based rather than focusing on building a long lasting legacy.

they very rarely are intended to be longer than one season and as such they dont have that pointless filler that has to be injected into the plot to keep it mindlessly and aimlessly going forward.
 
2022-05-08 4:20:26 PM  

tokinGLX: korean dramas are superior television compared to typical american/western shows.

quite simply, they are story based rather than focusing on building a long lasting legacy.

they very rarely are intended to be longer than one season and as such they dont have that pointless filler that has to be injected into the plot to keep it mindlessly and aimlessly going forward.


I'd much, much rather watch a series that knows when it's goi g to end. Sure beats a show spinning its wheels pointlessly for years or getting canceled mid-plot.
 
2022-05-08 6:20:05 PM  

WhippingBoi: More and different kinds of people can now aspire to TV's most important job-but streaming and COVID have set them up to fail.

I'm pretty sure what "set them up to fail" isn't streaming and COVID but rather lack of creativity and talent.


All the creativity and talent on hand couldn't save "The Power of the Dog".
 
2022-05-08 6:30:37 PM  

NeoCortex42: It's not a crisis.  It's just a changing landscape.  Instead of a very regimented environment with few opportunities, there's now more varied opportunities, but also more competition.  Eventually, a lot of these streamers will either merge together or die off and we'll be back to a more stable system, but one where diverse creators actually have a shot now.


Done in farking one. Landscape changes, the industry will adjust. Same as it ever was.
 
2022-05-08 6:34:41 PM  
The smart move would be to scrap competing streaming services. No one can afford $300/mo just to see the one or two good shows on each service.

Let the viewer pick any episode from any service, for $1 an episode (and maybe 2 one-minute commercial breaks if the episode runs 45+ minutes). Shows like "Breaking Bad" would pull in 5M views per episode (during original airing), and who knows how many have watched it again?

So, $1 per episode, 2-3 episodes a night, $60-90 per month, just for the content people want to see. A lot of shows would die the death they deserve, and production companies might put more thought into what they produce.

Yeah, some shows have crazy production costs, but those can probably be recouped over time, or else the production companies need to tone down lavish sets and locations.

Old series could charge less, such as 25 cents for an episode of "I Love Lucy". Old shows that aren't in syndication could make a comeback with new audiences.
 
2022-05-08 6:52:40 PM  
I get the feeling people are freaking out because television itself is changing.  Instead of 22 episodes per season, you can get by with ten or less and focus more on the story rather than slamming out content.   Despite going to streaming services, people are still treating the whole genre like it was the Big 3 Networks and I think that's mostly because of the people who have been there the longest can't imagine anything outside of it.

And even with the change, maybe something should be done on the promotion side of things.  I swear there's like dozens of new shows on every streaming service that I haven't even heard of, which is odd.  You'd think someone would be down with some sort of promotional thing outside of creating commercials to run during their own streaming.
 
2022-05-08 7:42:48 PM  

indy_kid: The smart move would be to scrap competing streaming services. No one can afford $300/mo just to see the one or two good shows on each service.

Let the viewer pick any episode from any service, for $1 an episode (and maybe 2 one-minute commercial breaks if the episode runs 45+ minutes). Shows like "Breaking Bad" would pull in 5M views per episode (during original airing), and who knows how many have watched it again?

So, $1 per episode, 2-3 episodes a night, $60-90 per month, just for the content people want to see. A lot of shows would die the death they deserve, and production companies might put more thought into what they produce.

Yeah, some shows have crazy production costs, but those can probably be recouped over time, or else the production companies need to tone down lavish sets and locations.

Old series could charge less, such as 25 cents for an episode of "I Love Lucy". Old shows that aren't in syndication could make a comeback with new audiences.


Charging per episode is a terrible idea.  Shows would get canned way quicker.  Cult-favorite shows with a dedicated, but smaller, audience wouldn't stand a chance.  Studios would also probably really even more and more on lowest common denominator entertainment or already-established franchises.
 
2022-05-08 9:18:09 PM  

AAAAGGGGHHHH: Wait'll people see whom the new Doctor is going to be.

At this rate, the regeneration after him will be trans paraplegic Doctor who identifies themself as a dolphin-dragon with fur.


i.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2022-05-08 9:21:22 PM  

Olympic Trolling Judge: AAAAGGGGHHHH: Wait'll people see whom the new Doctor is going to be.

At this rate, the regeneration after him will be trans paraplegic Doctor who identifies themself as a dolphin-dragon with fur.

They've had aliens that look like salt shakers, a tarp with a face, and the entire Moon.

But apparently a black dude is a bridge too far.


They had a goddamned carnivorous, inflatable plastic chair.

Death by Plastic Chair | Terror of the Autons | Doctor Who | BBC Studios
Youtube vXrAK6sUZ_0
 
2022-05-08 10:16:23 PM  
If I ever hear someone say "show runner" they are getting a crotch punch. Reading it is bad enough when everyone can't agree on how to find them in the credits.
 
2022-05-09 12:37:12 AM  
How about, people going into show with some neat ideas for 3 episodes but no plan for the other 7. Looking at you Star trek and wars.
 
2022-05-09 1:51:50 AM  

indy_kid: No one can afford $300/mo just to see the one or two good shows on each service.


How about paying a single, bulk fee for all the streaming services in one place.

It'd be almost like paying for cable TV again.
 
2022-05-09 8:23:00 PM  
The problem is that the current trend is to make lead writers the showrunner when even the best writers need someone to tell them, "That's a stupid idea," every now and then.
 
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