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(Guardian)   The Water Wars of the West are about to begin. Opening bid: 5 billion gallons annually, swiped from a neighboring Utah county   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Murica, Water, water woes, Water management, water wars of the American west, Cedar City, Cedar Valley, Paul Briggs, heart of the valley  
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2117 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Apr 2022 at 6:53 AM (18 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-04-04 6:42:43 AM  
"In the west we have the three W's man will fight for until the day we are all gone - that's whiskey, women and water,"

You forgot Wealth, which supercedes all 3 in red states.
 
2022-04-04 7:00:12 AM  

koder: "In the west we have the three W's man will fight for until the day we are all gone - that's whiskey, women and water,"

You forgot Wealth, which supercedes all 3 in red states.


As the western states turn into Arrakis, water will become wealth.
 
2022-04-04 7:01:30 AM  
Or southwestern states could invest in a  desalination plant or water recycling.
 
2022-04-04 7:02:04 AM  
The BLM's draft environmental assessment ... predicts thatthe proposal will have limited effects outside the project area.

Wow, even the movement for racial justice is paying attention to this.

...

(It's a joke! I kid! I kid.)
 
2022-04-04 7:05:24 AM  
They refuse to acknowledge climate change or do anything about it. They refuse to conserve water or any minor sacrifices to mitigate the situation because that is communish/socialism. Their only solution is to fight over the shrinking resources available, even if it is not rightfully theirs, until it is all gone. Then when it is all gone, the will blame their fate on the liberals. This is why we cannot have nice things.
 
2022-04-04 7:18:26 AM  
It's cool to be proud to fight over basic resources, it's not dumb.
 
2022-04-04 7:18:30 AM  
 
2022-04-04 7:21:19 AM  

Jiggatron69: koder: "In the west we have the three W's man will fight for until the day we are all gone - that's whiskey, women and water,"

You forgot Wealth, which supercedes all 3 in red states.

As the western states turn into Arrakis, water will become wealth.


What wealth is to be found in red states is either borrowed or stolen from blue states.
 
2022-04-04 7:23:34 AM  

heavymetal: They refuse to acknowledge climate change or do anything about it. They refuse to conserve water or any minor sacrifices to mitigate the situation because that is communish/socialism. Their only solution is to fight over the shrinking resources available, even if it is not rightfully theirs, until it is all gone. Then when it is all gone, the will blame their fate on the liberals. This is why we cannot have nice things.


It's easier to take water from an area without people than to ban watering lawns and setting strict water use laws with penalties.  This is a non-starter in rural red states for obvious reasons.
Water rights were distributed around a hundred years ago, long before this resource became scarce.  So this is just the beginning.
In the end once the water is gone, no amount of politics can solve the problem.  We went through this in 1995 here in New England when the fisheries went tits up.  Here we are almost 30 years later and they have not recovered.
 
2022-04-04 7:26:19 AM  
The entire West needs to renegotiate water rights starting from zero. Cancel all the active rights and start again.
 
2022-04-04 7:32:10 AM  

ChubbyTiger: The entire West needs to renegotiate water rights starting from zero. Cancel all the active rights and start again.


Not the whole West. Just the parts that have massive populations in arid areas. The west coast in the Pacific Northwest has plenty of rainfall and most of the arid area between the Cascade and Rocky Mountains has a low enough population and watershed that they are not having water rights issues.

It's parts of California and the southwestern states that have the problem.
 
2022-04-04 7:34:33 AM  
Here's an idea: Instead of farming in the middle of a desert/semi-desert where you have to import water, how about going somewhere where it rains? Alternatively, grow crops adapted to the actual climate of the region instead of thirsty crops from somewhere else? Just spitballin, or at least I would be if I was hydrated enough to make spit.
 
2022-04-04 7:35:30 AM  
Colorado's east slope is soon to be water stressed. Plans to dam the Poudre River and do irreparable environmental damage are symptomatic.
 
2022-04-04 7:38:01 AM  
Great Plains and California agriculture sector are going bye bye. On the downside it means massive human suffering on planetary level that will make Arab Spring look like extra rambunctious spring break.

On the upside, it may solve endemic obesity in the west.
 
2022-04-04 7:39:01 AM  
At long last, I can put up that one good Rango meme.

Oh wait, there hasn't been one. Sorry.
 
2022-04-04 7:41:18 AM  
I love in North Phoenix.
I bought my current home for $230,000 back in 2014. It's now listing at around $450,000.
This place place will be absolutely worthless when the water runs out... Which will be soon.

/CSB
 
2022-04-04 7:46:52 AM  
I think the plan is to keep pretending resources are infinite, then blame liberals when the water runs out.
That's it. That's the entire plan for dealing with this drought.
 
2022-04-04 7:52:02 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-04-04 7:52:18 AM  

alechemist: Or southwestern states could invest in a  desalination plant or water recycling.


Pretty sure a lot of those southwestern states don't have access to any oceans, so desalination equipment would be unlikely to be useful except in the parts of Utah near Salt Lake. Pretty sure most water treatment/reclamation plants already desalinate the treated water.

The city claims they don't have the money to pay for conservation efforts. Oddly, they seem to have plenty of cash to construct a 70-mile pipeline and a purpose-built solar power station to provide electricity for the pipeline pumps.

Google earth shows an awful lot of green lawns in Cedar City. Several of those green lawns have pools or water features. The main Mormon church and the President's residence a couple of blocks away seem to have tons of green lawns around them, and an enormous green lawn in an otherwise empty lot between them. Interestingly, that green empty lot is just south of the Native Plant Center.

Cedar City's management wants to continue growing- by which they mean increase their tax revenue base- but they claim they can't afford conservation methods. According to TFA, they've already been called out for using more water per capita than everyone else, and their water allocation has been cut back to slightly-less-unsustainable levels. So they're already hurting, but refuse to moderate their water use.

Here are a few ideas they could try: Pump the output from all of the wells in the county to a central potable water management system. Get rid of all those green lawns, pools, and water features by charging a set rate per resident for residential potable water and a huge premium for exceeding that amount. Convert all  farm irrigation to reclaimed water at a reduced rate, plus the premium potable water rate for any farms using drinking water for irrigation. Farm residences get the standard residential potable water rate. Businesses/industries which require water get converted to reclaimed water at the reduced rate, with high premiums for dipping into the potable water supply. All new construction has to include water-conservation equipment and piping. Give tax breaks to any residence, business, or industry which retrofits to water-conservation systems.

Cedar City is in a desert during a millennial drought. Get a handle on the widespread waste and misuse before looting your neighbors' water supplies.
 
2022-04-04 7:57:00 AM  
Here's an idea: DON'T TRY TO BUILD CITIES IN A DESERT!

Hauling in water isn't going to solve the problem, it doesn't even look like it will delay it for very long.

You know what? You think your economic output is so incredibly important, my suggestion is that you go to the West coast, build YUUGGGEEEE desalinization plants, an pipe that water to yourselves. When the cost of water is that high, I think you'll find out exactly how good people get at water conservation.
 
2022-04-04 7:58:59 AM  
And they want to run a 70 mile pipeline on BLM land.
Good luck.
 
2022-04-04 8:28:22 AM  

Jiggatron69: koder: "In the west we have the three W's man will fight for until the day we are all gone - that's whiskey, women and water,"

You forgot Wealth, which supercedes all 3 in red states.

As the western states turn into Arrakis, water will become wealth.


Wealth buys water. And if someone has more money than the guy who has water, fancy space knives (or in real life, bullets and harassment) will then make sure the wealth gets that water.

/in Idaho, the crazy must flow
 
2022-04-04 8:31:29 AM  
alechemist: Or southwestern states could invest in a  desalination plant or water recycling.

that's socialism.
 
2022-04-04 8:42:17 AM  
Maybe they could drink their own piss?
 
2022-04-04 9:01:36 AM  
The Osmonds - Utah
Youtube JGVWccJ3-88
 
2022-04-04 9:04:22 AM  

Pernicious Q. Varmint: Here's an idea: Instead of farming in the middle of a desert/semi-desert where you have to import water, how about going somewhere where it rains? Alternatively, grow crops adapted to the actual climate of the region instead of thirsty crops from somewhere else?


You sound crazy. Crazy McCrazypants is talking
 
2022-04-04 9:23:50 AM  
One of the linked stories says that the city charges 90 cents per 1,000 gallons. That's absurdly low. Now wonder they are running out of water. There's no incentive to reduce usage when water is that cheap. Bump that to $4-5 and they might get enough conservation to not need to steal water.
 
2022-04-04 9:26:11 AM  

Roastbeast Sammich: The BLM's draft environmental assessment ... predicts thatthe proposal will have limited effects outside the project area.

Wow, even the movement for racial justice is paying attention to this.

...

(It's a joke! I kid! I kid.)


That's different!  In the West, especially the Intermountain West, that initialism refers to a federal agency:  the Bureau of Large Mistakes.
 
2022-04-04 9:27:02 AM  
I guess if people don't move out of places like Appalachia where they have no jobs, money or the prospect of either, we can't expect people to move out of the desert just because they have no water to drink. Their families are from there, you know.
 
2022-04-04 9:33:00 AM  

Jiggatron69: koder: "In the west we have the three W's man will fight for until the day we are all gone - that's whiskey, women and water,"

You forgot Wealth, which supercedes all 3 in red states.

As the western states turn into Arrakis, water will become wealth.


If those states had swaths of a hallucinogenic drugs that could be harvested, they'd be okay...even Arrakis has it better than the SW.
 
2022-04-04 9:33:16 AM  

alechemist: Or southwestern states could invest in a  desalination plant or water recycling.


Utah is known for its beautiful ocean front properties.   Wedo not want to negatively affect them with an ugly desalination plant.
 
2022-04-04 9:41:53 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-04-04 9:55:47 AM  
Maybe it's time for a remake of that classic 1974 film, but set in a different location.  Given the demographics of  Cedar City, I even have a title for the new version:  "Mormontown".

I end up driving through the Owens Valley several times a year and think about that movie every time and the impact of the Water Wars.

Before the 2008 bust, St. George, UT, just south of Cedar City, was one of the fastest-growing cities in the West.  As the growth exploded in the late '90s, developers there were pushing for a pipeline from Lake Powell to St. George.  Ya gotta keep all those desert golf course green!
 
2022-04-04 9:58:31 AM  

ChubbyTiger: The entire West needs to renegotiate water rights starting from zero. Cancel all the active rights and start again.


This is one of the more important things that they need to do.

Desalination plants, growing plants/crops that are local instead more water intensive ones, building water efficient infrastructure, ensuring that communities get what they need and not so much that it farks the environment.

The longer they dance around the issue and pretend theres a freshwater ocean behind a rock they haven't found yet the worse it's gonna get.
 
2022-04-04 9:59:39 AM  
So Beaver is wet?
 
2022-04-04 10:01:31 AM  
Maybe they could buy some water from the Resnicks in California.
 
2022-04-04 10:08:19 AM  

ChubbyTiger: The entire West needs to renegotiate water rights starting from zero. Cancel all the active rights and start again.


That would be a disaster.  It would basically hand all the water to developers, and they are the root of the entire problem
 
2022-04-04 10:15:51 AM  

Weaver95: I think the plan is to keep pretending resources are infinite, then blame liberals when the water runs out.
That's it. That's the entire plan for dealing with this drought.


Water is, technically, infinite. It's just that it's not where people want it to be, transporting it is expensive, and the common form of it has far too high concentration of salt in it.
 
2022-04-04 10:19:58 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

This was supposed to be fiction, y'all.
 
2022-04-04 10:25:53 AM  
I have a couple friends that are coming to live with me in October from out west they are moving back here they are tired of fighting wildfires out there and seeing the place dry up. They might go back for Burning Man but thats about it they are done with living there.
 
2022-04-04 10:30:33 AM  

Herbie555: [Fark user image 850x446]
This was supposed to be fiction, y'all.


First thing I thought of as well.
 
2022-04-04 10:46:36 AM  

Northern: It's easier to take water from an area without people than to ban watering lawns and setting strict water use laws with penalties.  This is a non-starter in rural red states for obvious reasons.


Ooo, is it because there are way too many selfish, willfully ignorant people?

They keep adding more people to their cities in the farking desert.
They're shiat at conserving water. The town in question uses three times the national average per person.
Not just the overall usage, but the per person usage has been going up even as the water crisis worsens. This is aggressively stupid.
They clearly don't give a single fark about climate change or the environment in general.

And speaking of using too much water in the desert, I drove through Phoenix last November and all I could think as I drove across the ridiculous sprawl that is Phoenix (seriously, the metro area is something like fifty miles wide... it's ridiculous) was, WTF is this place doing here? It's in the middle of the damn desert and it's farking huge. Oh, and Arizona is one of the leading producers of produce in the country. That's got to take an absolute fark ton of water in a place that doesn't have enough.
 
2022-04-04 10:51:55 AM  
Also, IIRC, Arizona has some of the cheapest water rates in the country. In a farking desert where they're running out of water, they have among the cheapest rates. WTF? I get that no city should make it so poor people can't afford to have water at home. There are definitely ways around that, chief among them having graduated rates. The first X gallons (some amount that's reasonable for a family's usage) is a lower rate, then it goes up, with the price spiking very aggressively at some point for the largest users.

In a move long called for by conservationists, the city is also considering raising water rates for households that use more than 8,000 gallons in a month, Davis said. Currently, 8,000 gallons costs just 90 cents per thousand gallons in Cedar City and rates increase gradually to $2.15 per thousand gallons for monthly household use that exceeds 35,000 gallons.

In 2020, Cedar City was still thinking about maybe doing graduated rates. Don't know if they did or not, but FFS, they didn't have them already?

And how about having city ordinances that discourage or outright ban having a farking lawn? What a waste of water. I don't know, maybe if they want some grass and it'll grow there (not sure), buffalo grass would be okay. It takes about 1/4th of the water of most lawn grass.
 
2022-04-04 10:59:43 AM  
Cadillac Desert: The American West and Its Disappearing Water by Marc Reisner is worth reading. It is a bit dated, but it shows where all the problems started from.
 
2022-04-04 11:01:50 AM  
Lake Erie is literally across the street from me... yeah the weather sucks for a third of the year (it snowed here yesterday) but at least I've never had to worry about water.  Everytime I read these stories I wonder if it is a daily thought for those that live in these regions or if it only comes up when someone asks them to conserve water or pay a nickel more than they paid last month....
 
2022-04-04 11:08:20 AM  
The west is screwed. Moved to Salt Lake back in 2001 and we saw frequent large dumps of snow throughout winter and spring. Now? Crickets. March was known for snowfall. This year one tiny little system and the rest is getting into summer temps already. I quit watering anything but flowers and veggies years ago. Flowers attract pollinators which we also desperately need.
 
2022-04-04 11:13:26 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


Taste the Beaver.
 
2022-04-04 11:31:38 AM  
Why don't we ask the Anasazi how that worked out for them?
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-04-04 12:39:29 PM  
Oh but you need to focus on  banning trans youth from sports first tho
 
2022-04-04 12:58:43 PM  
Cedar City uses 250 gallons per person per day. Try dropping that by quite a bit and you won't need to find new water. We use less than a third of that here in the southern Arizona desert.
 
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