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(NPR)   Growing up, they complained about the "overpopulation bomb" that was going to destroy us. We've defeated it, now they complain about underpopulation destroying us. WILL NOTHING MAKE YOU PEOPLE HAPPY?   (npr.org) divider line
    More: Ironic, Demography, NPR News, Sarah Lehr of member station WKAR, NPR transcripts, SARAH LEHR, authoritative record of NPR, Kurt Metzger, NPR contractor  
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2834 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 12 Feb 2022 at 11:50 AM (19 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-02-12 8:09:33 AM  
Children are expensive.  Immigrants are cheap.  Too bad we're driving all the immigrants away.  Oh well.
 
2022-02-12 8:24:54 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Children are expensive.  Immigrants are cheap.  Too bad we're driving all the immigrants away.  Oh well.


Well, if the immigrants didn't STAY and have kids of their own, who were citizens, this wouldn't be a problem. Which is why you are seeing revivals of the Chinese Exclusion Act being floated around.

"Seeing demographic shifts" isn't new. This isn't surprising. This has been where the trends have been going for two decades. And moreover, folks in the GOP have been paying close attention to those numbers for a while, which is why they've been courting the racist d*ckbag portions of the population, because they are going to be angry when they fully realize that they're going to be under 50% of this country, which is easily within THIS decade.

This isn't theory, it's just math. And this illustrates that, fairly well, but it's not a new trend. Folks have known about this for a while. And the current sh*t stirring by the GOP with White Power Motherf*ckers and their water carriers who just want to be on the inside of the walls when sh*t goes down is their plan to retain power in the face of the Great American Melting Pot. Can't cut up more potatoes to throw in the f*cker, can't keep flavors from mixing, so better keep that pot separate, and serve the potatoes separately. And certainly not equally in presentation. Little bowl of stew on the left, and a ladle on as much butter and fixings on the potatoes, center of the plate. Even if you have a LOT more stew than potatoes. Even if the stew has more flavor and is just going to get more flavorful as time goes on, they've bet on Team Potato, and that's where they're going to put their focus. And malign anyone who might suggest that the potatoes would be just fine in the stew, equal and combining with it. Nope. Gotta keep that separate, because otherwise, how will anyone know that THEIR potatoes are the BEST? HOW?

The borking of the Census during Trump's term was deliberate. It will keep districts from being drawn that will represent better. And right now, you've got State legislatures working HARD at drawing them up to keep power as hard as they can, because they KNOW what the real numbers are, and they're going to keep those under wraps because as hard as they're working to game the system, they are looking at a dire situation. But they made their choice. Go for the easy scare money. Go for Team Potato. And they're going in hard.
 
2022-02-12 8:39:43 AM  
Birth rates in America and Europe dropping do not mean that the world-wide population bomb has been defused.

Other parts of the world are still pumping kids out like crazy and they're eventually going to have to find a place for them to live. Hence our immigration problem.
 
2022-02-12 8:43:46 AM  
Gay sex in a tent at a state park that has excellent WiFi and perhaps a conveniently located StarBucks and Arby's.
 
2022-02-12 8:46:28 AM  

MrBallou: Birth rates in America and Europe dropping do not mean that the world-wide population bomb has been defused.

Other parts of the world are still pumping kids out like crazy and they're eventually going to have to find a place for them to live. Hence our immigration problem.


Hot take: it's not really a problem unless you're gaslighted by right wing media.

How I know.... My great-grandparents immigrated to the US
 
2022-02-12 8:49:18 AM  

MrBallou: Other parts of the world are still pumping kids out like crazy and they're eventually going to have to find a place for them to live. Hence our immigration problem.


yeah...third world.

Monty Python's The Meaning of Life: Catholics
Youtube mWWAC5ZMKeM
 
2022-02-12 8:56:57 AM  

hubiestubert: Which is why you are seeing revivals of the Chinese Exclusion Act being floated around.


Everything you said sounds about right to me.  I'd like to add that the bigots can't pick on black people like they used to, and America has always been horribly prejudiced against Asians.  To some degree, the bigots are substituting Asians for black people, because they can.
 
2022-02-12 9:07:05 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: hubiestubert: Which is why you are seeing revivals of the Chinese Exclusion Act being floated around.

Everything you said sounds about right to me.  I'd like to add that the bigots can't pick on black people like they used to, and America has always been horribly prejudiced against Asians.  To some degree, the bigots are substituting Asians for black people, because they can.


Well, that and the Chinese, EA and SEA are locking up a lot of industrial capacity. Better to keep those workers there, where they belong and cheap as heck, than here getting themselves 'Murican jobs. African-Americans are already citizens, so the ship has sailed there to keep the franchise entirely out of reach. Same with so many Hispanic Americans. Gotta do what they can to KEEP folks out, and Yellow Peril has worked in the past, so...
 
2022-02-12 9:27:18 AM  

hubiestubert: Marcus Aurelius: hubiestubert: Which is why you are seeing revivals of the Chinese Exclusion Act being floated around.

Everything you said sounds about right to me.  I'd like to add that the bigots can't pick on black people like they used to, and America has always been horribly prejudiced against Asians.  To some degree, the bigots are substituting Asians for black people, because they can.

Well, that and the Chinese, EA and SEA are locking up a lot of industrial capacity. Better to keep those workers there, where they belong and cheap as heck, than here getting themselves 'Murican jobs. African-Americans are already citizens, so the ship has sailed there to keep the franchise entirely out of reach. Same with so many Hispanic Americans. Gotta do what they can to KEEP folks out, and Yellow Peril has worked in the past, so...


Spalding Gray Explains Modern Life
Youtube gjHwl5SRdCo
 
2022-02-12 9:32:17 AM  

MrBallou: Birth rates in America and Europe dropping do not mean that the world-wide population bomb has been defused.

Other parts of the world are still pumping kids out like crazy and they're eventually going to have to find a place for them to live. Hence our immigration problem.


The rate of population growth in Asian has been slowing for over 2 decades. In the 80's, it was over 2%, now it is under 1%.  Africa's rate of increase has also just begun to decline. So in looking at the world, the rate of increase is much lower than in the 60's.
 
2022-02-12 11:56:16 AM  
That's how it has been in New Mexico for forever.  If you look at all the ghost towns in rural areas, maybe 75% are ghost towns because a mine stopped operating.  A lot of copper, coal, and gypsum mines shut down.  Of the remaining 25%, maybe half washed away in flooding and the other half died because there was a better town nearby that attracted everybody.  Rural areas had a population explosion after World War II, and then died away.
 
2022-02-12 11:56:28 AM  
None of this would be a problem if we could teach cats to work.
 
2022-02-12 11:56:52 AM  
yeah i'm pretty sure that the overpopulation bomb is much more of a concern that the underpopulation bomb.

the earth could sustain 2 billion people if they treated it decently.
so yeah we're farked
 
2022-02-12 11:58:07 AM  
Sex means no one wins
 
2022-02-12 11:58:44 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Children are expensive.  Immigrants are cheap.  Too bad we're driving all the immigrants away.  Oh well.


Yeah, well, that's what happens when your conservatives scream "MORE WHITES FOR THE WHITE GOD!" and try to turn the country into Gilead.
 
2022-02-12 12:01:39 PM  

optikeye: Gay sex in a tent at a state park that has excellent WiFi and perhaps a conveniently located StarBucks and Arby's.


Make your own lube eh?
 
2022-02-12 12:02:15 PM  
Kids are expensive. News at 11.

The paradox is that the evangelical Republican voters who want couples to have 5 or 6 kids are the ones who are making it so expensive.
 
2022-02-12 12:02:31 PM  
Underpopulation won't destroy us. It will, however, help bring down an economic system requiring greater growth to define success.
 
2022-02-12 12:05:32 PM  
The people who said both of those things only care about white people.

The people who say under population now only care about capitalism.

We've technologized our way out of mass starvation for the time being, but we've got way too many people for everyone to live an American Middle Class lifestyle, and the agricultural gains of the 20th Century are in serious danger of being taken away by climate change.
 
2022-02-12 12:08:50 PM  

davynelson: yeah i'm pretty sure that the overpopulation bomb is much more of a concern that the underpopulation bomb.

the earth could sustain 2 billion people if they treated it decently.
so yeah we're farked


Don't give up. A real "Captain Trips" could get loose and put a reboot on everything. As in 98 per cent mortality vs. 98 per cent survival.
 
2022-02-12 12:09:09 PM  
For some perspective, the population of the world the year I was born was under 2,900,000,000.  It's now nearing 8,000,000,000.

Don't you think the "overpopulation bomb"  was a nuclear blast?
 
2022-02-12 12:11:47 PM  

MrBallou: Birth rates in America and Europe dropping do not mean that the world-wide population bomb has been defused.

Other parts of the world are still pumping kids out like crazy and they're eventually going to have to find a place for them to live. Hence our immigration problem.


Thomas Malthus was wrong.

Paul Ehrlich was wrong.

And so are you.

/Overpopulation n: Just enough of me, too many of you.
 
2022-02-12 12:18:00 PM  

NM Volunteer: That's how it has been in New Mexico for forever.  If you look at all the ghost towns in rural areas, maybe 75% are ghost towns because a mine stopped operating.  A lot of copper, coal, and gypsum mines shut down.  Of the remaining 25%, maybe half washed away in flooding and the other half died because there was a better town nearby that attracted everybody.  Rural areas had a population explosion after World War II, and then died away.


My experience in Minnesota was similar. The little towns either die out completely, or have new populations of mostly-brown immigrants that the old Scandahoovians gripe about, not realizing that those immigrants are the only reason their town hasn't died out completely.
 
2022-02-12 12:21:19 PM  
I don't know where new Americans are supposed to come from, if not from other countries. They're not getting one squiggle of my white, native-born DNA.
 
2022-02-12 12:22:37 PM  

Mr. Tweedy: None of this would be a problem if we could teach cats to work.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-02-12 12:25:30 PM  

MillionDollarMo: optikeye: Gay sex in a tent at a state park that has excellent WiFi and perhaps a conveniently located StarBucks and Arby's.

Make your own lube eh?


You out perved him or her, well done.
 
2022-02-12 12:31:26 PM  
To be fair, we were on a course towards an unsustainable population after the baby boom. It's a natural adjustment as a species to correct that. And a reduction of population through a reduced birth rate is a lot better than the other ways nature achieves that...
 
2022-02-12 12:31:37 PM  
Ask a climate scientist if they think the overpopulation bomb has been "diffused".  I'm sure they will agree, right?
 
2022-02-12 12:35:38 PM  
Between the Duggars and Nick Cannon I don't think it's gonna be a problem.
 
2022-02-12 12:35:49 PM  
Eight billion humans is too damn many. We need to get back down to one billion and stay there.
 
2022-02-12 12:38:16 PM  
"Hi guyz! What's going on?"

external-content.duckduckgo.comView Full Size
 
TWX
2022-02-12 12:46:06 PM  
Overpopulation is bad the environment.

Underpopulation is bad for an economy that depends on growth.

The converses of these statements are not necessarily true, underpopulation is not necessarily good for the environment, and overpopulation is not necessarily good for the economy.
 
2022-02-12 12:46:56 PM  
People stop having kids when they're pessimistic about the future.  This is not news.

The Gen-X "Baby Bust" happened because of fears over nuclear war and economic malaise wrought by the beginning of deindustrialization and worsened by the oil shocks and the stagflation of the 1970s.
 
2022-02-12 12:50:22 PM  

MrBallou: Birth rates in America and Europe dropping do not mean that the world-wide population bomb has been defused.

Other parts of the world are still pumping kids out like crazy and they're eventually going to have to find a place for them to live. Hence our immigration problem.


FINALLY! An actual example of BEGGING THE QUESTION. The writer assumes an "immigration problem" without having demonstrated the existence of one. This will be on the test!
 
2022-02-12 12:52:15 PM  
This is a...(checks notes) anti-malthusian nightmare!
 
2022-02-12 12:56:46 PM  
We know how to fix this. I'm willing to do my part. Let's get Farking!
 
2022-02-12 12:57:03 PM  
Concerns about "underpopulation" are almost always motivated by racism. We're not running  out of people.
 
2022-02-12 1:05:32 PM  
We could probably use some underpopulation. I'd say it frees up land for those who stick around, but a lot of that's probably being swiped up by speculators at the moment.

Either way, of course birth rates are dropping. We have people hopping jobs left and right because they can't afford to take care of their damn selves, much less a hypothetical kid.

/Not gonna' pretend this is a one-factor thing. Birth rates in developed nations have been dropping for a good while now.
 
2022-02-12 1:13:07 PM  

chaoswolf: Eight billion humans is too damn many. We need to get back down to one billion and stay there.


The earth can support 20 billion, give or take, if you look at research on the matter.

We currently produce and distribute enough food to provide 2000 calories a day to every human on earth with a surplus after that. We waste enough food in the US each day to feed every homeless person in the nation for the next year.
 
2022-02-12 1:15:44 PM  

MrBallou: Birth rates in America and Europe dropping do not mean that the world-wide population bomb has been defused.

Other parts of the world are still pumping kids out like crazy and they're eventually going to have to find a place for them to live. Hence our immigration problem.


Name those nations that are still pumping out kids like crazy. Even Bangladesh has a birth rate of 2.5/family.
 
2022-02-12 1:19:35 PM  

geekbikerskum: People stop having kids when they're pessimistic about the future.  This is not news.

The Gen-X "Baby Bust" happened because of fears over nuclear war and economic malaise wrought by the beginning of deindustrialization and worsened by the oil shocks and the stagflation of the 1970s.


Yeah....sure. It was all "Hey let's make some babies'
More like "Gawd dame I'm horny, let's fark"

I'm pretty sure 'well, let's populate the planet' to save the human race in case of nuclear war....wasn't a big item on the WWII gen mindset. "worst pickup line ever"

They wanted nice appliances, modern homes with built in bathrooms, plumbing and farking.
Babies where just a side effect of that quest.
 
2022-02-12 1:27:10 PM  

BolloxReader: Underpopulation won't destroy us. It will, however, help bring down an economic system requiring greater growth to define success.


A few decades ago I worked for Target. One of our goals was double-digit (percentage) sales increases every year. I told my manager that was impossible after a few years unless we had corresponding increase in population or all the other stores went out of business.
He looked at me like a dog that had just been shown a card trick.
 
2022-02-12 1:28:23 PM  

geekbikerskum: People stop having kids when they're pessimistic about the future.  This is not news.

The Gen-X "Baby Bust" happened because of fears over nuclear war and economic malaise wrought by the beginning of deindustrialization and worsened by the oil shocks and the stagflation of the 1970s.


DUH...sorry.
The Baby "Bust"..Not "Boom"
that wasn't about fear of nukes either. It was about easy access to birth control...and putting jobs and wealth at top priority.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-02-12 1:29:30 PM  

BretMavrik: MrBallou: Birth rates in America and Europe dropping do not mean that the world-wide population bomb has been defused.

Other parts of the world are still pumping kids out like crazy and they're eventually going to have to find a place for them to live. Hence our immigration problem.

Thomas Malthus was wrong.

Paul Ehrlich was wrong.

And so are you.

/Overpopulation n: Just enough of me, too many of you.


Sure. Math lies, because you want it to.
 
2022-02-12 1:30:34 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: Concerns about "underpopulation" are almost always motivated by racism. We're not running  out of people.


It's power structure based.  For example, even when the bamboo curtain fell, any non-Japanese that were allowed to live were still expected to provide workers and soldiers.

Rome had a very open citizenship, but they also demanded their workers and soldiers, and encouraged reproduction as well.

Historically everything from tribes, to city-states, and all the way up to empires have encouraged (by law or by religion or by culture), reproduction at all levels.

In Catholicism there's a huge push, for over 1500 years, to reproduce. Race has zero to do with that one. It's about power.

I'm sure you can find very obvious examples where it is race oriented (oh, look there is one).  But the biggest and most obvious ones are not.  It is all about power.
 
2022-02-12 1:37:11 PM  
WILL NOTHING MAKE YOU PEOPLE HAPPY?
nope
 
2022-02-12 1:38:48 PM  

optikeye: geekbikerskum: People stop having kids when they're pessimistic about the future.  This is not news.

The Gen-X "Baby Bust" happened because of fears over nuclear war and economic malaise wrought by the beginning of deindustrialization and worsened by the oil shocks and the stagflation of the 1970s.

DUH...sorry.
The Baby "Bust"..Not "Boom"
that wasn't about fear of nukes either. It was about easy access to birth control...and putting jobs and wealth at top priority.

[Fark user image 361x640]


Ha!   I had that little postcard...then I went and got a kid.  Still love it though.   I didn't have plan to have kids, because, well, I didn't want any.   I didn't plan to get married either, but my soon to be husband...well, life is what happens while your making other plans.
 
2022-02-12 1:40:04 PM  

MrBallou: Birth rates in America and Europe dropping do not mean that the world-wide population bomb has been defused.

Other parts of the world are still pumping kids out like crazy and they're eventually going to have to find a place for them to live. Hence our immigration problem.


Actually, birth rate is falling everywhere generally aside from a handful of countries. Most are at or below replacement rate.  Separately, the straw man claiming that immigration is a problem is a lie so laughable it is funny. Generally, immigration is a good thing, adding fresh blood and ideas to a country. The last thing you want is a brain drain or for people to view it as better to leave than stay. You can look at Eastern Europe for a dark picture of what happens.
 
2022-02-12 1:42:14 PM  

Mr. Tweedy: None of this would be a problem if we could teach cats to work.


You want an evil director of human resources? That is how you get an evil director of human resources.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-02-12 1:46:34 PM  

MrBallou: Birth rates in America and Europe dropping do not mean that the world-wide population bomb has been defused.

Other parts of the world are still pumping kids out like crazy and they're eventually going to have to find a place for them to live. Hence our immigration problem.


Second derivative of population went negative worldwide decades ago. It will take a while longer for population to stall out, but it's on track. The Demographic Transition is real, especially as more of the world lives in cities.

Even with the end of China's one child  policy Chinese aren't rushing out to have four or five kids. Japan is on course for extinction. A lot of Africa and South America are having fewer kids.

The problem is that we have already overshot ecological sustainability and have done permanent damage to our support system m
 
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