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(Yahoo)   Are you a Senior Software Engineer, Head of Research, or even a CFO for Apple? Right now you are, but the minute you leave the company you were just "an associate" according to any database a future employer can access to verify your resume   (news.yahoo.com) divider line
    More: Stupid, Employment, much Apple employees, job classification, Cher Scarlett, employment practices, job title, former Apple software engineer, Apple  
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2768 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Feb 2022 at 5:34 PM (26 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-02-11 3:22:54 PM  
So?
 
2022-02-11 3:44:14 PM  
Yes, and who cares?
 
2022-02-11 5:15:45 PM  
Subby must be behind on his quota of anti-Apple submissions.
 
2022-02-11 5:27:53 PM  
No one wants to poach Apple employees anyway, when they're much tastier deep fried.
 
2022-02-11 5:37:04 PM  
When I'm hiring, I don't really need a database to determine if you suck as a developer or not.
 
2022-02-11 5:43:11 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-02-11 5:44:55 PM  
When asked for a reference, most companies with any sense just confirm past employment. Offering anything beyond that can only blow up in the past employer's face.
 
2022-02-11 5:50:54 PM  

ChiliBoots: When asked for a reference, most companies with any sense just confirm past employment. Offering anything beyond that can only blow up in the past employer's face.


This. My old employers were always "month/year" hiring and separation dates. No title either. Most places managers weren't even allowed to comment about an employee, it HAD to go to HR who refused any comment.
 
2022-02-11 5:50:58 PM  

ChiliBoots: When asked for a reference, most companies with any sense just confirm past employment. Offering anything beyond that can only blow up in the past employer's face.


Last three companies I worked for, if you received a call for reference:
1: refer to HR
2: HR confirms they stared X date, ended Y date

HR won't confirm if Y date was they quit or were fired.

references are 1980's BS.  Would you list a reference that would speak bad of you in the first place?
 
2022-02-11 5:52:05 PM  
What I'm getting out of this is you can claim any prior titles you want.
 
2022-02-11 5:52:32 PM  
I want to hack the people responsible for AutoCorrupt™ and change associate to
Ass Bandit.
 
2022-02-11 5:55:14 PM  
I gotta question this green.  This seems unimportant to almost everyone.
 
2022-02-11 5:55:18 PM  
It's actually fairly uncommon for employers to confirm much beyond, "Yes, he worked here", and "Yes, he completed his contract".

If you're applying for a senior dev position, there should be someone highly knowledgeable asking interview questions, and a portfolio review, a direct test of programming skill, or both. It should be pretty clear from these that you either know your shiat or you don't... and whether you know it on a level that's sufficient for the company. Terms like "entry level", "junior", "regular", "senior", and "lead" are not universal things... Google's regular is probably most company's senior for instance.
 
2022-02-11 5:57:20 PM  

SomeAmerican: What I'm getting out of this is you can claim any prior titles you want.


Who.... Run....Appletown?!
 
2022-02-11 5:58:19 PM  
Better than what most video game companies do. When you leave one of them, they erase your employee info from their HR system, so anyone phoning in to verify you worked there gets the message "sorry, we have no record of that person working with us".

You employment records are still in their finance system for government records, but no one outside the company or government is allowed info from them.
 
2022-02-11 6:00:06 PM  
I'd probably go with Lord Marshal
 
2022-02-11 6:05:46 PM  

thermo: Yes, and who cares?


Probably the person in the article who lost a job offer because their former title couldn't be verified?
 
2022-02-11 6:05:55 PM  
We got a good laugh from one of our ex-employees calling themselves the "head of new product integration" when they were a senior manager of TPMs.

They played it into a Dir of Prod Mgmt role elsewheres, but the important thing is that it is far, far away from us.
 
2022-02-11 6:08:27 PM  

toetag: ChiliBoots: When asked for a reference, most companies with any sense just confirm past employment. Offering anything beyond that can only blow up in the past employer's face.

Last three companies I worked for, if you received a call for reference:
1: refer to HR
2: HR confirms they stared X date, ended Y date

HR won't confirm if Y date was they quit or were fired.

references are 1980's BS.  Would you list a reference that would speak bad of you in the first place?


Exactly
But with one caveat...
"Are they eligible for re-employment "
 
2022-02-11 6:12:04 PM  

trerro: It's actually fairly uncommon for employers to confirm much beyond, "Yes, he worked here", and "Yes, he completed his contract".

If you're applying for a senior dev position, there should be someone highly knowledgeable asking interview questions, and a portfolio review, a direct test of programming skill, or both. It should be pretty clear from these that you either know your shiat or you don't... and whether you know it on a level that's sufficient for the company. Terms like "entry level", "junior", "regular", "senior", and "lead" are not universal things... Google's regular is probably most company's senior for instance.


I think that guilds should be a thing.
I would so join a guild versus today's modern "unions"
 
2022-02-11 6:13:52 PM  

Fara Clark: toetag: ChiliBoots: When asked for a reference, most companies with any sense just confirm past employment. Offering anything beyond that can only blow up in the past employer's face.

Last three companies I worked for, if you received a call for reference:
1: refer to HR
2: HR confirms they stared X date, ended Y date

HR won't confirm if Y date was they quit or were fired.

references are 1980's BS.  Would you list a reference that would speak bad of you in the first place?

Exactly
But with one caveat...
"Are they eligible for re-employment "


Which can be a BS question since some companies like HP/HPE have a strict no rehire policy for all laid off employees.
 
2022-02-11 6:16:53 PM  
Why can't people just be honest? This is disgusting.
 
2022-02-11 6:18:00 PM  
These corrupt employment practices make me want to tune out.
 
2022-02-11 6:21:06 PM  
Anyone hiring in the tech industry should (unless they have been under a rock) know that nearly everywhere just confirms start and end date of employment. Glowing personal references are never gonna happen (literally prohibited by policy, you can get shiat canned for giving out a reference behind HRs back)..Titles are rarely confirmed, though can happen if a written employment verification letter is provided to the new employer and they call old employer to check its validity

Tl/Dr :while you are still an employee ask for an employment verification letter and use that as your written reference for newjob(tm). HR have to confirm it is valid, or risk legal issues.
 
2022-02-11 6:21:52 PM  

shamen123: Anyone hiring in the tech industry should (unless they have been under a rock) know that nearly everywhere just confirms start and end date of employment. Glowing personal references are never gonna happen (literally prohibited by policy, you can get shiat canned for giving out a reference behind HRs back)..Titles are rarely confirmed, though can happen if a written employment verification letter is provided to the new employer and they call old employer to check its validity

Tl/Dr :while you are still an employee ask for an employment verification letter and use that as your written reference for newjob(tm). HR have to confirm it is valid, or risk legal issues.


That's some bullshiat what is the point?
 
2022-02-11 6:22:52 PM  
Who the fark wants the head of research from apple any more?
What is it just a browser history of the samsung website?
 
2022-02-11 6:24:17 PM  

shamen123: HR have to confirm it is valid, or risk legal issues.


Yeah if there's one thing big tech is afraid of, it's the cost of lawsuits from individual employees
 
2022-02-11 6:24:31 PM  

shamen123: Anyone hiring in the tech industry should (unless they have been under a rock) know that nearly everywhere just confirms start and end date of employment. Glowing personal references are never gonna happen (literally prohibited by policy, you can get shiat canned for giving out a reference behind HRs back)..Titles are rarely confirmed, though can happen if a written employment verification letter is provided to the new employer and they call old employer to check its validity

Tl/Dr :while you are still an employee ask for an employment verification letter and use that as your written reference for newjob(tm). HR have to confirm it is valid, or risk legal issues.


Pro tip: if you want good references, get folks outside of your prior company that you had a good working relationship with and did good things for. Not past employers.
 
2022-02-11 6:24:44 PM  

moothemagiccow: shamen123: HR have to confirm it is valid, or risk legal issues.

Yeah if there's one thing big tech is afraid of, it's the cost of lawsuits from individual employees


You would be surprised....
 
2022-02-11 6:25:05 PM  

Last of the Hippies: Better than what most video game companies do. When you leave one of them, they erase your employee info from their HR system


You're derezzed?

s3.amazonaws.comView Full Size
 
2022-02-11 6:27:20 PM  

Suflig: shamen123: Anyone hiring in the tech industry should (unless they have been under a rock) know that nearly everywhere just confirms start and end date of employment. Glowing personal references are never gonna happen (literally prohibited by policy, you can get shiat canned for giving out a reference behind HRs back)..Titles are rarely confirmed, though can happen if a written employment verification letter is provided to the new employer and they call old employer to check its validity

Tl/Dr :while you are still an employee ask for an employment verification letter and use that as your written reference for newjob(tm). HR have to confirm it is valid, or risk legal issues.

That's some bullshiat what is the point?


Mostly its a protectionist HR policy.
 
2022-02-11 6:31:55 PM  
Is this kind of dickish stonewalling about prior employees a tech thing specifically? I'm in construction and I provide references all the time. I also check them on prospective employees and people give me far more than 'yeah, they worked here'.
 
2022-02-11 6:32:05 PM  

valenumr: shamen123: Anyone hiring in the tech industry should (unless they have been under a rock) know that nearly everywhere just confirms start and end date of employment. Glowing personal references are never gonna happen (literally prohibited by policy, you can get shiat canned for giving out a reference behind HRs back)..Titles are rarely confirmed, though can happen if a written employment verification letter is provided to the new employer and they call old employer to check its validity

Tl/Dr :while you are still an employee ask for an employment verification letter and use that as your written reference for newjob(tm). HR have to confirm it is valid, or risk legal issues.

Pro tip: if you want good references, get folks outside of your prior company that you had a good working relationship with and did good things for. Not past employers.


Oh, and pro tip 2: ask permission first, so they know it is coming.
 
2022-02-11 7:12:17 PM  
I was a senior VP of Operational Research there. You can ask them but they won't tell you. Everybody knows they won't admit when their Senior VPs leave. You can call and check yourself. You'll know it's true when they won't confirm it.
 
2022-02-11 7:17:02 PM  
The old reference system relied on Good Faith. Not a lot of that about these days.
 
2022-02-11 7:18:12 PM  

Fara Clark: trerro: It's actually fairly uncommon for employers to confirm much beyond, "Yes, he worked here", and "Yes, he completed his contract".

If you're applying for a senior dev position, there should be someone highly knowledgeable asking interview questions, and a portfolio review, a direct test of programming skill, or both. It should be pretty clear from these that you either know your shiat or you don't... and whether you know it on a level that's sufficient for the company. Terms like "entry level", "junior", "regular", "senior", and "lead" are not universal things... Google's regular is probably most company's senior for instance.

I think that guilds should be a thing.
I would so join a guild versus today's modern "unions"


Have you considered becoming a screen actor?
 
2022-02-11 7:33:52 PM  
My experience with a couple companies was when there, everyone was repeatedly reminded they are family. When you leave you are disowned.
 
2022-02-11 7:36:00 PM  
All I know, that being the Technician that I am, I need a better way to market my skills.

/working under contract in  biomedical, but my heart is in aerospace.
 
2022-02-11 7:59:19 PM  
I don't recall saying good luck.
 
2022-02-11 8:13:07 PM  

kanuti: My experience with a couple companies was when there, everyone was repeatedly reminded they are family. When you leave you are disowned.


Standard psychological ploy. People go the extra mile for family (after hours emails and meetings are less likely to piss people off). People are likely to be more open with those considered family. People are less likely to  screw over family.

Of course, it's bs. Once you leave, even on good terms, the shutters come down.
 
2022-02-11 8:54:08 PM  
So, former janitors are Apple associates too?  Oh, wait...those are 3rd party contract workers that don't get to share in Silicon Valley successes
 
2022-02-11 9:07:37 PM  

Fara Clark: I think that guilds should be a thing.
I would so join a guild versus today's modern "unions"


The elites/nobles w/ money hated the guilds even more than they hate unions now. Also:
external-preview.redd.itView Full Size
 
2022-02-11 9:35:02 PM  

JohnBigBootay: Is this kind of dickish stonewalling about prior employees a tech thing specifically? I'm in construction and I provide references all the time. I also check them on prospective employees and people give me far more than 'yeah, they worked here'.


I think it's because headhunting is a big thing in the tech industry.  Companies are constantly trying to poach good employees from other companies, so this is HR fighting back.  It's a bit stupid really.
 
2022-02-11 9:41:52 PM  
Every time you think Apple can't get any classier.
 
2022-02-11 10:08:10 PM  

SomeAmerican: What I'm getting out of this is you can claim any prior titles you want.


Funny enough, this used to be kinda true at Apple. Sent this article to a couple of good friends. They both worked at the company. One still does. They reminisced about how many years ago you could give yourself a title like "Software Wizard" or "Development Ninja."
I think that was during the Jobs years.
 
2022-02-11 10:15:19 PM  

JohnBigBootay: Is this kind of dickish stonewalling about prior employees a tech thing specifically?


Not tech, but office jobs in general. At least in part it's due to some people being just nuts, and it being really hard to prove what someone did or didn't so on a tech project.

Imagine someone claims on their C.V. that they led a project in an office, that they completed under budget, when in reality someone else actually did all the work on the project, and the guy claiming to be the project lead did bugger all except make shiatty suggestions. And the reason the project came under budget was that a senior employee quit in protest at having to work with the muppet.

No-one at the company wants to give that person a good reference, and if they try to give an accurate reference, then they guy might sue them for "giving an inaccurate reference".

If there's no benefit for the company to give a detailed reference, and one time in a hundred it results in either an actual or threatened lawsuit, then companies quickly learn to only give the bare minimum of info.
 
2022-02-11 10:31:11 PM  
assets.amuniversal.comView Full Size
 
2022-02-11 10:45:10 PM  
Pretty sure if you've been CFO for Apple, the only database anyone needs to confirm that is Google.

/also you'll get that glowing reference that peons aren't allowed to have
//and that will also be on Google
 
2022-02-11 11:48:49 PM  
For those who think this is no big deal, here's YouTuber "Life after Layoff", who is an actual recruiter, explaining how the job title can affect the job search or the salary offered:
Apple Changes ALL Ex-Employees Titles to "Associate" - Do Job Titles Even Matter?
Youtube zW7FAqZbgLM
 
2022-02-12 2:03:17 AM  

ChiliBoots: When asked for a reference, most companies with any sense just confirm past employment. Offering anything beyond that can only blow up in the past employer's face.


Yep. This article make no sense to me. Working in tech, the most I have heard is "yes. They worked here on these dates."
 
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