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(NPR)   IRS abandons plan to require facial recognition to access tax information in response to outrage from millions who read about it on their phones unlocked with FaceID   (npr.org) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Facial recognition system, Internal Revenue Service, Taxation in the United States, Identity theft, Government Accountability Office report, widespread use, sort of facial recognition technology, Jeramie Scott  
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1082 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Feb 2022 at 10:10 PM (20 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



46 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-02-07 7:36:03 PM  
With Face ID, it's only stored on the phone. That's why people don't have nearly the same amount of trouble with the idea as the IRS' thing, subby.

/really, though, we have some of the lowest levels of government trust in the Western world, so it's no surprise people had a problem with this.
 
2022-02-07 7:53:08 PM  
But I already gave them my face.
 
2022-02-07 8:16:22 PM  
*cough*driver's licenses*cough*
 
2022-02-07 10:16:02 PM  
That's because with Apple we have a choice. Won't be so with the IRS.
 
2022-02-07 10:17:00 PM  
This is the hill y'all wanna die on?

Just wait until you find out about the massive network of surveillance cameras with facial tracking networked across this fine country and the massive server farms the NSA has in some remote parts out there.

But nay, using your face to stop scammers is just a line too far!
 
2022-02-07 10:18:55 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: This is the hill y'all wanna die on?

Just wait until you find out about the massive network of surveillance cameras with facial tracking networked across this fine country and the massive server farms the NSA has in some remote parts out there.

But nay, using your face to stop scammers is just a line too far!


Dude, really?
Do I need "I remember my first beer" image.
 
2022-02-07 10:18:55 PM  
The company says they don't sell data. That might be true today. But what if some Vulture Capitalist decides he wants to "monetize" the asset? Would the C-Suite be up to the challenge?
 
2022-02-07 10:19:07 PM  

themindiswatching: With Face ID, it's only stored on the phone. That's why people don't have nearly the same amount of trouble with the idea as the IRS' thing, subby.

/really, though, we have some of the lowest levels of government trust in the Western world, so it's no surprise people had a problem with this.


That's a good thing.  The Government shouldn't be trusted.
 
2022-02-07 10:19:30 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: This is the hill y'all wanna die on?

Just wait until you find out about the massive network of surveillance cameras with facial tracking networked across this fine country and the massive server farms the NSA has in some remote parts out there.

But nay, using your face to stop scammers is just a line too far!


I saw terminator 2 also.
 
2022-02-07 10:23:04 PM  
That reminds me, I need to file my taxes soon.
 
2022-02-07 10:24:31 PM  

ProfessorTerguson: 137 Is An Excellent Time: This is the hill y'all wanna die on?

Just wait until you find out about the massive network of surveillance cameras with facial tracking networked across this fine country and the massive server farms the NSA has in some remote parts out there.

But nay, using your face to stop scammers is just a line too far!

I saw terminator 2 also.


https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/08/24/1032967/us-government-agencies-plan-to-increase-their-use-of-facial-recognition-technology/amp/

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/18/amazon-ring-largest-civilian-surveillance-network-us

https://www.discovermagazine.com/technology/airports-are-embracing-facial-recognition-should-we-be-worried

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center

The time to have spoken up was a couple decades ago. Might as well use facial recognition for good by stopping farking scammers stealing peoples tax refunds.
 
2022-02-07 10:25:14 PM  
I refuse to use biometrics for any of my devices, but I would trust the IRS before I trust a for profit company to be a good steward of data that could be easily used to steal my identity.
 
2022-02-07 10:26:14 PM  

Another Government Employee: The company says they don't sell data. That might be true today. But what if some Vulture Capitalist decides he wants to "monetize" the asset? Would the C-Suite be up to the challenge?


Wow, read what u wrote...
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-02-07 10:31:18 PM  
Penis prints are still OK though, right?
 
2022-02-07 10:39:17 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: This is the hill y'all wanna die on?

Just wait until you find out about the massive network of surveillance cameras with facial tracking networked across this fine country and the massive server farms the NSA has in some remote parts out there.

But nay, using your face to stop scammers is just a line too far!


People have some sort of really stupid bug up their ass about facial recognition.

With that said... only problem I would have with this is that it's REQUIRED... and the technology just isn't there yet.  Especially with non-white folks (no, progressive morons, that doesn't mean it's racist!!!) it's not super reliable.

And if you're going to require something like this to access required and sensitive data, it better be very reliable.  Like well over 99%.
 
2022-02-07 10:41:41 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: This is the hill y'all wanna die on?

Just wait until you find out about the massive network of surveillance cameras with facial tracking networked across this fine country and the massive server farms the NSA has in some remote parts out there.

But nay, using your face to stop scammers is just a line too far!


Ok. So your point is, things are bad already. Might as well fark it up even more.
 
2022-02-07 10:47:43 PM  

jaivirtualcard: 137 Is An Excellent Time: This is the hill y'all wanna die on?

Just wait until you find out about the massive network of surveillance cameras with facial tracking networked across this fine country and the massive server farms the NSA has in some remote parts out there.

But nay, using your face to stop scammers is just a line too far!

Ok. So your point is, things are bad already. Might as well fark it up even more.


If the proverbial Pandoras Box has been opened, it might as well be used for some positive purpose than just profit.

Dunking on scammers sounds like a perfect use for it.
 
2022-02-07 10:48:12 PM  
Oh, great...NOW they tell me, after I've already registered with that damned "ID.me"
 
2022-02-07 10:52:26 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: Just wait until you find out about the massive network of surveillance cameras with facial tracking networked across this fine country


I might be wrong but the rest of us don't live in China
 
2022-02-07 10:56:12 PM  
It's most likely the same people who don't want Bill Gates' 5G tracking chip vaccines and complaining about it on their iPhones...that are tracking them, Subby.
 
2022-02-07 10:58:42 PM  

moothemagiccow: 137 Is An Excellent Time: Just wait until you find out about the massive network of surveillance cameras with facial tracking networked across this fine country

I might be wrong but the rest of us don't live in China


China was just the test bed for the world's first world nations. Hell, their system in Xinjiang is just taking the UK CCTV system and applying machine learning to it.

If you think the US isn't going the way China did, you're not paying attention.
 
2022-02-07 11:06:57 PM  
Look, I work for the government.

They know who I am and what I look like. And by extension, it's possible that foreign governments might as well, if they decide they care about people at my level. Probably not.

Using facial ID will not change that.
 
2022-02-07 11:17:57 PM  

kb7rky: Oh, great...NOW they tell me, after I've already registered with that damned "ID.me"


Same here. Now I'm really farked off.
 
2022-02-07 11:27:04 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: moothemagiccow: 137 Is An Excellent Time: Just wait until you find out about the massive network of surveillance cameras with facial tracking networked across this fine country

I might be wrong but the rest of us don't live in China

China was just the test bed for the world's first world nations. Hell, their system in Xinjiang is just taking the UK CCTV system and applying machine learning to it.

If you think the US isn't going the way China did, you're not paying attention.


Paying attention doesn't matter anymore. The U.S. government is too lazy and disorganized to go the way China did, and if it wanted to, there's nothing I could do to stop it.
 
2022-02-07 11:31:25 PM  

themindiswatching: With Face ID, it's only stored on the phone. That's why people don't have nearly the same amount of trouble with the idea as the IRS' thing, subby.

/really, though, we have some of the lowest levels of government trust in the Western world, so it's no surprise people had a problem with this.


Doesn't really matter if you're an iPhone user. Apple has all your encryption keys and will hand them over to any legal authority. Anyone who says "if you haven't done anything wrong you don't have anything to worry about" is experiencing a critical failure of imagination.
 
2022-02-07 11:34:55 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: This is the hill y'all wanna die on?

Just wait until you find out about the massive network of surveillance cameras with facial tracking networked across this fine country and the massive server farms the NSA has in some remote parts out there.

But nay, using your face to stop scammers is just a line too far!


That's why I wear a mask, and will continue to do so regardless of pandemic status.
 
2022-02-07 11:38:00 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: This is the hill y'all wanna die on?

Just wait until you find out about the massive network of surveillance cameras with facial tracking networked across this fine country and the massive server farms the NSA has in some remote parts out there.

But nay, using your face to stop scammers is just a line too far!


But we're talking about an entity that still uses fax machines on a regular basis.
 
2022-02-07 11:39:00 PM  

mattgsx: I refuse to use biometrics for any of my devices, but I would trust the IRS before I trust a for profit company to be a good steward of data that could be easily used to steal my identity.


The IRS gets hacked too...
 
2022-02-07 11:40:07 PM  

kb7rky: Oh, great...NOW they tell me, after I've already registered with that damned "ID.me"


Guess it was just your face they needed.
 
2022-02-07 11:47:08 PM  
They'll never figure out what I look like.

They definitely don't have forms of ID with my picture.
 
2022-02-07 11:59:45 PM  

Monocultured: themindiswatching: With Face ID, it's only stored on the phone. That's why people don't have nearly the same amount of trouble with the idea as the IRS' thing, subby.

/really, though, we have some of the lowest levels of government trust in the Western world, so it's no surprise people had a problem with this.

Doesn't really matter if you're an iPhone user. Apple has all your encryption keys and will hand them over to any legal authority. Anyone who says "if you haven't done anything wrong you don't have anything to worry about" is experiencing a critical failure of imagination.


Simultaneously, anyone who thinks the dystopian future they fear will be protected by hiding digital pictures of themselves is also suffering that same failure.

"In the future evilcorp will have cameras everywhere and use data sold by the IRS to track you by face" is silly.

In the future any evilcorp with cameras everywhere will videotape you in your car, parking lots, leaving your home, etc, and easily build up that database themselves with zero problem, because the tech required for your concern is about five minutes away from the tech required to acquire the info themselves. And you aren't stopping the tech.

All you are doing is throwing away benefits as tech improves, not preventing potential dystopia. Right now my issues with potential fraud greatly exceed my worries that Amazon will be able to target an ad to me based on knowing I keep my boat in a particular marina, or that I prefer Kroger to Walmart or whatever.

Obviously your quoted phrase is certainly technically correct - one can have things to fear without things to hide. But it is essentially a strawman argument when wielded against people who aren't saying precisely that. Invoking that trite phrase isn't sufficient. You've got to actually make the argument about what I should be in fear of.
 
2022-02-08 12:15:21 AM  
ID.me was a real PITA. I have an issue with the IRS, and since their web site says ID.me will be required by summer, and since the IRS doesn't have the resources to answer the phone for the last 9 months, I went ahead and attempted to create the new account. It took about 9 hours to get done. Three times I tried to do it with a smart phone, uploading images and taking the selfie, only to have it say that it couldn't finish, and would you like to start all over. The next day I tried again, with same results. Gave up with the smartphone method and went to the web site. Uploaded documents and it showed that there would be a 2 hour wait in the queue. After 2 hours, it told me that it couldn't read one of the documents and I had to upload again. Then get back in the queue for another 2 hours. I did finally get on a video conference with one of their "referees", and she was very nice and we finished quickly, but like I said, I had 9 hours invested in this that I'm not getting back. I sent a nastygram to the IRS, and copied my Senators and Representative. For some strange reason, after trying to deal with them for almost a year, within the week I have mail from them telling me what form they are missing from my return. I distinctly remember having to manually fill out that form, and verified that it was in the electronic package submitted, and accepted, by them last April.
 
2022-02-08 12:46:55 AM  
I used to let my phone unlock from voice print.  Then my boss unlocked it on accident while he was walking past my desk.

Fingerprint is the only biometric unlock on phones that is moderately trustworthy.
 
2022-02-08 3:27:19 AM  

jake3988: 137 Is An Excellent Time: This is the hill y'all wanna die on?

Just wait until you find out about the massive network of surveillance cameras with facial tracking networked across this fine country and the massive server farms the NSA has in some remote parts out there.

But nay, using your face to stop scammers is just a line too far!

People have some sort of really stupid bug up their ass about facial recognition.

With that said... only problem I would have with this is that it's REQUIRED... and the technology just isn't there yet.  Especially with non-white folks (no, progressive morons, that doesn't mean it's racist!!!) it's not super reliable.

And if you're going to require something like this to access required and sensitive data, it better be very reliable.  Like well over 99%.


It literally does mean it's racist. It wasn't designed with a specific demographic in mind at all for quite a wide variety of reasons, ya dumbass. That's the exact definition of the term.
 
2022-02-08 5:03:52 AM  

themindiswatching: With Face ID, it's only stored on the phone. That's why people don't have nearly the same amount of trouble with the idea as the IRS' thing, subby.

/really, though, we have some of the lowest levels of government trust in the Western world, so it's no surprise people had a problem with this.


Sure and remember alexa, siri, and hey Google never ever ever listen until you say the magic word
 
2022-02-08 5:11:52 AM  

mattgsx: I refuse to use biometrics for any of my devices, but I would trust the IRS before I trust a for profit company to be a good steward of data that could be easily used to steal my identity.


This is a case where you are having to trust a for profit company. The irs isn't doing this on their own.

I'd  like to know which congress scammers got loaded with id.me equity in exchange for this deal  and how long it is before they plan to launch their ipo or spac.
 
2022-02-08 5:51:13 AM  

Smackledorfer: Monocultured: themindiswatching: With Face ID, it's only stored on the phone. That's why people don't have nearly the same amount of trouble with the idea as the IRS' thing, subby.

/really, though, we have some of the lowest levels of government trust in the Western world, so it's no surprise people had a problem with this.

Doesn't really matter if you're an iPhone user. Apple has all your encryption keys and will hand them over to any legal authority. Anyone who says "if you haven't done anything wrong you don't have anything to worry about" is experiencing a critical failure of imagination.

Simultaneously, anyone who thinks the dystopian future they fear will be protected by hiding digital pictures of themselves is also suffering that same failure.

"In the future evilcorp will have cameras everywhere and use data sold by the IRS to track you by face" is silly.

In the future any evilcorp with cameras everywhere will videotape you in your car, parking lots, leaving your home, etc, and easily build up that database themselves with zero problem, because the tech required for your concern is about five minutes away from the tech required to acquire the info themselves. And you aren't stopping the tech.

All you are doing is throwing away benefits as tech improves, not preventing potential dystopia. Right now my issues with potential fraud greatly exceed my worries that Amazon will be able to target an ad to me based on knowing I keep my boat in a particular marina, or that I prefer Kroger to Walmart or whatever.

Obviously your quoted phrase is certainly technically correct - one can have things to fear without things to hide. But it is essentially a strawman argument when wielded against people who aren't saying precisely that. Invoking that trite phrase isn't sufficient. You've got to actually make the argument about what I should be in fear of.


Not exactly facial recognition, but here's the future I'm afraid of:

I walk into the bathroom for the first time in a while. My phone dings with a message. "We noticed you haven't shat in four days. Try Immodium AD. Brought to you by Google Ad Services."

Then, as I sit to watch another B-movie review on Youtube... What plays after another ad for Youtube Premium's studen't plan?

Immodium.

I crap my solid brick and use the bidet I was suggested in an Amazon ad.

"C'est la vie."
 
2022-02-08 6:27:54 AM  

mattgsx: I refuse to use biometrics for any of my devices, but I would trust the IRS before I trust a for profit company to be a good steward of data that could be easily used to steal my identity.


Bad news, the IRS contracted this out to a private company. The IRS isn't storing your facial data, ID.me is.
 
2022-02-08 6:45:39 AM  
Subs you might be cool with the government having a giant database of everyone's faces so facial recognition can track everyone all the time but you must know a lot of people would be against it.
 
2022-02-08 7:28:01 AM  

Walker: But I already gave them my face.


Me too.
 
2022-02-08 7:29:10 AM  

American-Irish eyes: themindiswatching: With Face ID, it's only stored on the phone. That's why people don't have nearly the same amount of trouble with the idea as the IRS' thing, subby.

/really, though, we have some of the lowest levels of government trust in the Western world, so it's no surprise people had a problem with this.

That's a good thing.  The Government shouldn't be trusted.


See Estonia.
 
2022-02-08 7:33:04 AM  

lindalouwho: *cough*driver's licenses*cough*


Kinda interesting Illinois now requires drivers license photo to be taken without eyeglasses even if you always wear them. It's a tiny picture on the license but the original is high rez enough to resolve the details of your iris.
 
2022-02-08 9:52:38 AM  

Nocrash: lindalouwho: *cough*driver's licenses*cough*

Kinda interesting Illinois now requires drivers license photo to be taken without eyeglasses even if you always wear them. It's a tiny picture on the license but the original is high rez enough to resolve the details of your iris.


Maybe the selfie didn't work for me because my smartphone is an ancient Galaxy S5, used pretty much exclusively as a phone, and a camera when I take stuff apart and need a record of which wire went where. No browsing, no add on apps, no email, no music.
I was wondering about the "take your eyeglasses off" thingy, and I believe you have answered my question about that.
 
2022-02-08 1:55:19 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: moothemagiccow: 137 Is An Excellent Time: Just wait until you find out about the massive network of surveillance cameras with facial tracking networked across this fine country

I might be wrong but the rest of us don't live in China

China was just the test bed for the world's first world nations. Hell, their system in Xinjiang is just taking the UK CCTV system and applying machine learning to it.

If you think the US isn't going the way China did, you're not paying attention.


And you're a loony. Or a pretty good troll.
 
2022-02-08 2:35:00 PM  
For those who are apparently feeling obtuse:

The issue isn't giving the federal government your photo.

The issue is having to give your photo some random-ass middleman corporation to do who farking knows what, to get functionality that already used to exist.  Some senator's buddy getting a kickback to insert themselves into a process that doesn't need an additional step to provide information to a third party that doesn't farking need to have it.
 
2022-02-08 5:47:06 PM  

Nocrash: lindalouwho: *cough*driver's licenses*cough*

Kinda interesting Illinois now requires drivers license photo to be taken without eyeglasses even if you always wear them. It's a tiny picture on the license but the original is high rez enough to resolve the details of your iris.


As someone who wears glasses, I find that pretty interesting.

/ lives in PA
// we keep glasses on
 
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