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(Pittsburgh Post-Gazette)   Steelers president, Art Rooney, defends Rooney Rule, but acknowledges Black head coach interview process is Rooney Toons   (post-gazette.com) divider line
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310 clicks; posted to Sports » on 03 Feb 2022 at 8:55 PM (20 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-02-03 9:03:03 PM  
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

The Rule has a good purpose, it's not the rule's fault that the other owners won't hire minorities. All it guarantees is an interview, and the results stand alone, indicative of the nature of the team owners and the culture of the sport.

The results deserve to be criticized. The rule? Not as much.
 
2022-02-03 9:14:21 PM  
So the rule is either ineffective or not being being followed in good faith or both. Systemic and/or personal racism.
 
2022-02-03 9:20:04 PM  

Paul Baumer: So the rule is either ineffective or not being being followed in good faith or both. Systemic and/or personal racism.


The problem isn't the rule it's the  owners. The NFL main office has become more diverse but as much as anyone hates Roger Goodell, he can't force owners to do the right thing.

I think Damien Woody has it right. There needs to be a transparency in the interview process. There needs to be oversight of the process and feedback to candidates on why choices were made.
 
2022-02-03 9:21:29 PM  

Hillbilly Jim: Paul Baumer: So the rule is either ineffective or not being being followed in good faith or both. Systemic and/or personal racism.

The problem isn't the rule it's the  owners. The NFL main office has become more diverse but as much as anyone hates Roger Goodell, he can't force owners to do the right thing.

I think Damien Woody has it right. There needs to be a transparency in the interview process. There needs to be oversight of the process and feedback to candidates on why choices were made.


This. The Rooney Rule isn't the problem. It's the lack of transparency in the interview process, which makes it even harder for coaches who don't fit the mold to get jobs.
 
2022-02-03 9:32:36 PM  
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2022-02-03 9:49:34 PM  

greentea1985: Hillbilly Jim: Paul Baumer: So the rule is either ineffective or not being being followed in good faith or both. Systemic and/or personal racism.

The problem isn't the rule it's the  owners. The NFL main office has become more diverse but as much as anyone hates Roger Goodell, he can't force owners to do the right thing.

I think Damien Woody has it right. There needs to be a transparency in the interview process. There needs to be oversight of the process and feedback to candidates on why choices were made.

This. The Rooney Rule isn't the problem. It's the lack of transparency in the interview process, which makes it even harder for coaches who don't fit the mold to get jobs.


The problem is, owners and GMs want to discuss sensitive personnel and scheme decisions, and this is a paranoid league where nobody wants to tip their hand until they have to run the personnel package or play on the field.  In what areas can you insist on transparency without being able to have those confidential discussions?
 
2022-02-03 10:05:57 PM  

UNC_Samurai: greentea1985: Hillbilly Jim: Paul Baumer: So the rule is either ineffective or not being being followed in good faith or both. Systemic and/or personal racism.

The problem isn't the rule it's the  owners. The NFL main office has become more diverse but as much as anyone hates Roger Goodell, he can't force owners to do the right thing.

I think Damien Woody has it right. There needs to be a transparency in the interview process. There needs to be oversight of the process and feedback to candidates on why choices were made.

This. The Rooney Rule isn't the problem. It's the lack of transparency in the interview process, which makes it even harder for coaches who don't fit the mold to get jobs.

The problem is, owners and GMs want to discuss sensitive personnel and scheme decisions, and this is a paranoid league where nobody wants to tip their hand until they have to run the personnel package or play on the field.  In what areas can you insist on transparency without being able to have those confidential discussions?


That is the problem. It might be telling the candidate one thing you thought they did well and one thing they need to improve on or have a scoring sheet of some kind that ranks them on a 1-10 in a few areas to give a sense of what was liked and what wasn't.
 
2022-02-03 10:07:10 PM  
Antitrust. A beautiful thing
 
2022-02-03 10:19:28 PM  
I'm white (I know, shocker).

I've lied my way into many jobs I was unqualified for. Which makes this more damming. You get a guy like Flores who is an amazing coach, and he gets treated this way. It's disgusting.
 
2022-02-03 10:44:41 PM  
The coaching development system is a huge part of the problem. You have to start on poverty wages and have no security for years before anything real comes up. Only someone with an inside track or family support (coach's kids or otherwise connected or rich white family) can take that chance.
Former players with a huge knowledge and experience base have little reason to start over as interns, so you have baby coordinators who know nothing coaching experienced players who know way more. More former players should be inserted into the coaching pipeline.
 
2022-02-03 10:59:28 PM  
I get the sense that part of what this suit is trying to point out is that possibly, outside of a few cases, even when an AA coach is hired, they are hired more often than not to made to be the fall guy in the "dump and draft pump" scheme that is being alleged here... at least that's the impression I'm getting from the details of the suit.
 
2022-02-03 11:07:27 PM  

Paul Baumer: So the rule is either ineffective or not being being followed in good faith or both. Systemic and/or personal racism.


By and large, you're not getting a bunch of more than likely politically right wing NFL owners to abide by what they feel is "forced affirmative action", unless you have significant leverage over them. What that leverage is, is the question.
 
2022-02-03 11:18:41 PM  
Even with a cynical view of the Rooney rule where minority coordinators are given token interviews to check a box, it might be said that it indirectly increases the number of minority coordinators.  It would be a bad look if they had to keep reaching down to the equipment manager or conditioning coaches for minority interview candidates.  So by having a nice selection of believable minority candidates to give token interviews to, while maybe not helping at the head coach position, it still might be helping them get within striking distance.
 
2022-02-04 12:19:25 AM  
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2022-02-04 12:20:53 AM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

The Rule has a good purpose, it's not the rule's fault that the other owners won't hire minorities. All it guarantees is an interview, and the results stand alone, indicative of the nature of the team owners and the culture of the sport.

The results deserve to be criticized. The rule? Not as much.


Wasting a bunch of people's time and treating them like nothing more than props to fill a quota is a problem. Seeing as the rule doesn't require them to do literally anything but that, then the rule sucks balls.
 
2022-02-04 1:09:45 AM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

The Rule has a good purpose, it's not the rule's fault that the other owners won't hire minorities. All it guarantees is an interview, and the results stand alone, indicative of the nature of the team owners and the culture of the sport.

The results deserve to be criticized. The rule? Not as much.


The teams chose to implement a rule they wouldn't respect the spirit of. It's a bad rule because it was a PR win for the NFL and nothing else.
 
2022-02-04 1:56:02 AM  

Bootysama: Adolf Oliver Nipples: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

The Rule has a good purpose, it's not the rule's fault that the other owners won't hire minorities. All it guarantees is an interview, and the results stand alone, indicative of the nature of the team owners and the culture of the sport.

The results deserve to be criticized. The rule? Not as much.

Wasting a bunch of people's time and treating them like nothing more than props to fill a quota is a problem. Seeing as the rule doesn't require them to do literally anything but that, then the rule sucks balls.


If we accept that racism is systemic and pervasive throughout NFL ownership, literally the only chance that exists for minority coaches is to force interviews and make the morons consider the possibility that those men might be the answer to the question.

It's certainly flawed. But since the alternative is to outright tell an owner who they must hire, which is absurd on its face, it's all that can be done.
 
2022-02-04 2:01:54 AM  
Everyone who supports the Rooney Rule should be forced to hire Marvin Lewis to coach their playoff games.
 
2022-02-04 2:09:59 AM  
The problem is the owners. And what purpose do they actually serve in a league that makes as much money as the NFL? Cut/buy them out, they are and have always been the worst part about the league.
 
2022-02-04 5:27:18 AM  

Hillbilly Jim: Paul Baumer: So the rule is either ineffective or not being being followed in good faith or both. Systemic and/or personal racism.

The problem isn't the rule it's the  owners. The NFL main office has become more diverse but as much as anyone hates Roger Goodell, he can't force owners to do the right thing.

I think Damien Woody has it right. There needs to be a transparency in the interview process. There needs to be oversight of the process and feedback to candidates on why choices were made.


the problem is "the rule" when rules like this are created by their very nature they allow people to find ways to use the rule in their favor and claim "we followed the rule". The culture has to change and no rule will do it
 
2022-02-04 6:58:40 AM  

Not_Todd: Everyone who supports the Rooney Rule should be forced to hire Marvin Lewis to coach their playoff games.


Ok. Just as long as everyone who opposes the Rooney rule has to hire Urban Meyer to coach their regular season games.
 
2022-02-04 8:25:37 AM  

Jaesop: Adolf Oliver Nipples: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

The Rule has a good purpose, it's not the rule's fault that the other owners won't hire minorities. All it guarantees is an interview, and the results stand alone, indicative of the nature of the team owners and the culture of the sport.

The results deserve to be criticized. The rule? Not as much.

The teams chose to implement a rule they wouldn't respect the spirit of. It's a bad rule because it was a PR win for the NFL and nothing else.


I don't think that's at all accurate.  The NFL went from 2 to 8 minority HCs only 3-4 years after the Rooney Rule went into effect.  Even though loopholes were found and criticized not long after the Rule went into effect, the NFL still had 8 minority HCs as recently as 2017.

The problem is that the NFL let the Rule get stagnant and didn't make meaningful attempts to update or modify it for way too long a time, basically until it was too late.  The Rule was a good starting point and its foundation should still be in effect for a long time. As much as I'd like to blame the NFL and the owners, the Rooney Rule was not a mere PR stunt.
 
2022-02-04 8:47:10 AM  

FreeLawyer: Not_Todd: Everyone who supports the Rooney Rule should be forced to hire Marvin Lewis to coach their playoff games.

Ok. Just as long as everyone who opposes the Rooney rule has to hire Urban Meyer to coach their regular season games.


There's an endless list of hopelessly incompetent head coaches to add to this list. Marvin Lewis did well most seasons - wasn't the best, wasn't the worst. No Adam Gase by a long shot. The claim isn't that every minority coach would be perfect. It's that most white coaches aren't, but they bypass equally or better qualified minority coaches to give the white guy a chance to fail.
 
2022-02-04 9:52:29 AM  
Dat headline tho.
 
2022-02-04 11:41:53 AM  
A big problem is owners often decide who they want to hire as the new coach before interviewing anybody so all the interviews are largely a waste of time, black or white.

Part of the problem is the coaching carousel:
1. Great coordinator
2. Fails as head coach
3. Great coordinator again.
4. Fails as head coach again.

Maybe being an offensive or defensive guru isn't enough to be a successful head coach? Belichick is an outlier, not a trend.
 
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