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(Deadspin)   The Brady legacy as written by the haters   (deadspin.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Bill Belichick, New England Patriots, Super Bowl, Tom Brady, National Football League, St. Louis Rams, Indianapolis Colts, New York Jets  
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688 clicks; posted to Sports » on 01 Feb 2022 at 5:05 AM (21 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-02-01 5:10:00 AM  
Scab Deadspin and Rob Parker? No thanks.
 
2022-02-01 5:46:07 AM  
"To this day, several Rams feel like the Pats knew what was coming"

Did they feel that way before or after spygate broke?

This is the same as that person who says "I knew that was coming" after it happens
 
2022-02-01 5:49:32 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-02-01 6:39:08 AM  
It would be crazy to look at the texts in the deflated balls thing and not believe the allegations were true. That being said, ball inflation isn't that big a deal. The severity of the punishment was either Roger being pissed about being lied to, or possibly more fallout about the spying.

It's interesting reading about former Patriots employee Ernie Adams and all the allegations associated with him. I wonder how much of the Patriots success can be attributed to his "analysis".

No sour grapes from me about what an asset TB has been. His great combination of leadership, physical, and mental skills coupled with the rest of the New England assets has been damn tough.
 
2022-02-01 6:43:28 AM  
Well, he is definitely in the same conversation as Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa and Mark McGuire.  Eye-popping stats, and part of their career mired in some scandal or another.
 
2022-02-01 6:52:07 AM  
I do believe that the cheater label should be associated with Brady. But at some point, you still have to go out and win the damn games. And in the Deflategate game, Brady played better after the balls were properly inflated.

And as for Spygate? It's where the Pats were videotaping from, not what they videotapes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spygate_(NFL)
 
2022-02-01 7:30:15 AM  

skinink: I do believe that the cheater label should be associated with Brady. But at some point, you still have to go out and win the damn games. And in the Deflategate game, Brady played better after the balls were properly inflated.

And as for Spygate? It's where the Pats were videotaping from, not what they videotapes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spygate_(NFL)


For the Pats homers

https://www.businessinsider.com/espn-report-patriots-spygate-scandal-2015-9
 
2022-02-01 7:41:08 AM  
The league will be in a better place once Brady finally retires, but Rob "RG3 is a cornball brother" Parker needs to STFU forever.
 
2022-02-01 7:42:23 AM  
I've dashed off angry emails I'm glad I never sent that were less angry than TFA

There is no need to be upset
Youtube ygr5AHufBN4
 
2022-02-01 8:03:06 AM  
He turned out to be a better person than Aaron Rodgers. That on top of all the Super Bowls is the ultimate sell high moment. Ride on.
 
2022-02-01 8:23:59 AM  

ghostfacekillahrabbit: He turned out to be a better person than Aaron Rodgers. That on top of all the Super Bowls is the ultimate sell high moment. Ride on.


He's still a Trumper
 
2022-02-01 8:42:15 AM  
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size
 
2022-02-01 8:52:50 AM  

natural316: "To this day, several Rams feel like the Pats knew what was coming"

Did they feel that way before or after spygate broke?

This is the same as that person who says "I knew that was coming" after it happens


Let's not forget how Brady played in the game AFTER they allegedly found deflated balls.
 
2022-02-01 8:52:51 AM  
100% of athletes are cheaters.  Anyone who's gotten away with a foul or penalty cheated.  So fark off with this partially deflated football nonsense.  That's the least objectionable thing most athletes will do during the course of a game.

Also, he destroyed the Colts in the 2nd half with non deflated balls.
 
2022-02-01 8:58:39 AM  
I'm the greatest player in the world!

also

I can only play if the ball matches my exact specifications.

----------------

Does the NBA swap out special basketballs to whoever controls the ball? Do batter get to decide which baseballs they get to hit?  NFL QBs are the biggest snowflakes in the world.
 
2022-02-01 9:02:45 AM  

Bathtub Cynic: ghostfacekillahrabbit: He turned out to be a better person than Aaron Rodgers. That on top of all the Super Bowls is the ultimate sell high moment. Ride on.

He's still a Trumper


Good point, but is Rodgers any really any better than a Trumper? He seems like a Marianne Williamson primary voter who's gone down hill exponentially since then.
 
2022-02-01 9:11:05 AM  

LL316: 100% of athletes are cheaters.  Anyone who's gotten away with a foul or penalty cheated.  So fark off with this partially deflated football nonsense.  That's the least objectionable thing most athletes will do during the course of a game.

Also, he destroyed the Colts in the 2nd half with non deflated balls.


I double dribbled in a company basketball game once and I lied and said that I didn't and we won because of it.
 
2022-02-01 9:11:14 AM  

Bathtub Cynic: He's still a Trumper


https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/09/us/politics/tom-brady-gisele-bundchen.html

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nfl/news/tom-brady-didnt-endorse-donald-trump-different-support-friend/fxr4v2u4cttq1e4uld8xrzz0m

Maybe, probably not, but whatever.  The Stern interview is worth a listen if you like Stern at all.  Check the dates before you work on a gotcha.
 
2022-02-01 9:21:09 AM  
One of the greatest. Also a cheater. He worked for an organization that was canny enough to understand that the punishment for cheating was nothing compared to the reward for winning. The league incentivizes cheating for those that don't mind paying the fines or losing a pick.
 
2022-02-01 10:00:12 AM  

Nana's Vibrator: Bathtub Cynic: He's still a Trumper

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/09/us/politics/tom-brady-gisele-bundchen.html

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nfl/news/tom-brady-didnt-endorse-donald-trump-different-support-friend/fxr4v2u4cttq1e4uld8xrzz0m

Maybe, probably not, but whatever.  The Stern interview is worth a listen if you like Stern at all.  Check the dates before you work on a gotcha.


Fark user imageView Full Size


He gotcha'd himself, all on his own.
 
2022-02-01 10:08:23 AM  

Nana's Vibrator: Bathtub Cynic: He's still a Trumper

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/09/us/politics/tom-brady-gisele-bundchen.html

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nfl/news/tom-brady-didnt-endorse-donald-trump-different-support-friend/fxr4v2u4cttq1e4uld8xrzz0m

Maybe, probably not, but whatever.  The Stern interview is worth a listen if you like Stern at all.  Check the dates before you work on a gotcha.


I've got no doubt he's a right winger through and through - but for the most part, he does have enough common sense to shut up about it and stay mum. That being said, I take the approach of "separating the art from the artist" when it comes to athletes - I'm not going to sign Colin Kaepernick over Tom Brady if I want to win a football game. Plus, he isn't nearly as much of a flake as Aaron Rodgers, and for as much snake oil he's put out with his TB12 business, at least he wasn't an antivaxxer.
 
2022-02-01 10:09:46 AM  

snowshovel: Does the NBA swap out special basketballs to whoever controls the ball? Do batter get to decide which baseballs they get to hit?  NFL QBs are the biggest snowflakes in the world.


One could argue that a football is more difficult to throw than a round object. Deflategate is about the silliest "he cheated" argument that anyone could make, and I'm not a NE or TB fan. The difference in performance is...minimal. Spygate Brady wasn't running or commanding, it's on the coaches.

Also, in MLB a batter might not get to decide, but a pitcher can. They can exchange the ball they are throwing with the ump at virtually anytime. They are also kind of notorious for changing the exterior of the ball mid-game to better suit their pitches. So... yeah.

Deadspin is dead to me, and I won't click the link.
 
2022-02-01 10:15:42 AM  

Rapmaster2000: LL316: 100% of athletes are cheaters.  Anyone who's gotten away with a foul or penalty cheated.  So fark off with this partially deflated football nonsense.  That's the least objectionable thing most athletes will do during the course of a game.

Also, he destroyed the Colts in the 2nd half with non deflated balls.

I double dribbled in a company basketball game once and I lied and said that I didn't and we won because of it.


You're history's greatest monster.
 
2022-02-01 10:16:00 AM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Nana's Vibrator: Bathtub Cynic: He's still a Trumper

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/09/us/politics/tom-brady-gisele-bundchen.html

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nfl/news/tom-brady-didnt-endorse-donald-trump-different-support-friend/fxr4v2u4cttq1e4uld8xrzz0m

Maybe, probably not, but whatever.  The Stern interview is worth a listen if you like Stern at all.  Check the dates before you work on a gotcha.

[Fark user image image 425x358]

He gotcha'd himself, all on his own.


Check the dates before you work on a gotcha.

Reading's hard
 
2022-02-01 10:19:02 AM  

Nana's Vibrator: Adolf Oliver Nipples: Nana's Vibrator: Bathtub Cynic: He's still a Trumper

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/09/us/politics/tom-brady-gisele-bundchen.html

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nfl/news/tom-brady-didnt-endorse-donald-trump-different-support-friend/fxr4v2u4cttq1e4uld8xrzz0m

Maybe, probably not, but whatever.  The Stern interview is worth a listen if you like Stern at all.  Check the dates before you work on a gotcha.

[Fark user image image 425x358]

He gotcha'd himself, all on his own.

Check the dates before you work on a gotcha.

Reading's hard


A guy flying a Confederate flag is a racist. A guy displaying a Nazi armband is a Nazi.

As they say, the thing speaks for itself. Not once did he ever repudiate the things that hat stands for, and as such they stick to him. Welcome to the real world, where you are what you show people you are.
 
2022-02-01 10:25:40 AM  

JAGChem82: Nana's Vibrator: Bathtub Cynic: He's still a Trumper

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/09/us/politics/tom-brady-gisele-bundchen.html

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nfl/news/tom-brady-didnt-endorse-donald-trump-different-support-friend/fxr4v2u4cttq1e4uld8xrzz0m

Maybe, probably not, but whatever.  The Stern interview is worth a listen if you like Stern at all.  Check the dates before you work on a gotcha.

I've got no doubt he's a right winger through and through - but for the most part, he does have enough common sense to shut up about it and stay mum. That being said, I take the approach of "separating the art from the artist" when it comes to athletes - I'm not going to sign Colin Kaepernick over Tom Brady if I want to win a football game. Plus, he isn't nearly as much of a flake as Aaron Rodgers, and for as much snake oil he's put out with his TB12 business, at least he wasn't an antivaxxer.


He'd been mostly apolitical his entire career.  He publicly backtracked his political support for Trump as I linked.  If you told me he's still privately a GW Bush Republican I'd believe it.

And if you play in the politics tab mud you know how I feel about that.  Anyone voting Republican after January 6th are betraying the country.  Even for a school board.
/NFL players included
 
2022-02-01 10:28:23 AM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/09/us/politics/tom-brady-gisele-bundchen.html

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nfl/news/tom-brady-didnt-endorse-donald-trump-different-support-friend/fxr4v2u4cttq1e4uld8xrzz0m

Welcome to the real world, where you are what you show people you are.


I mean, I like this statement for reasons you'll never understand.

Check the dates before you self-own again.  Maybe read a link or two
 
2022-02-01 11:38:58 AM  

Nana's Vibrator: Adolf Oliver Nipples: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/09/us/politics/tom-brady-gisele-bundchen.html

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nfl/news/tom-brady-didnt-endorse-donald-trump-different-support-friend/fxr4v2u4cttq1e4uld8xrzz0m

Welcome to the real world, where you are what you show people you are.

I mean, I like this statement for reasons you'll never understand.

Check the dates before you self-own again.  Maybe read a link or two


Self-own, huh?

So I read your links, and was struck by how he tried to have it both ways. Here's a quote:

"Brady believes modern politics is too divisive, so he chooses to focus on embracing leadership and bringing people together."

That belief lasted as long as it took to wear and/or display a MAGA hat in his locker.

I live in MAGAville. Good old central Pennsyltucky. People don't wear or display MAGA gear because it's comfortable or because they need a hat. They do it because they're lunatic Trumpers. And according to the pundits, his teammates, etc., he never does anything without calculating first. He put a symbol with meaning behind him, and his vacillating doesn't repudiate his actions.
 
2022-02-01 11:40:51 AM  
Meh. As far as I know he wasn't ever accused of cheating in Tampa. And his career didn't exactly take a nosedive when he moved over there.
 
2022-02-01 11:53:14 AM  

kukukupo: Well, he is definitely in the same conversation as Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa and Mark McGuire.  Eye-popping stats, and part of their career mired in some scandal or another.


"some scandal or another" = jacking your body with steroids for years and years as compared to what amounts to sign stealing and a corked bat, at worst. LOL. there's no comparison to be made there.
 
2022-02-01 12:00:32 PM  

drewsclues: kukukupo: Well, he is definitely in the same conversation as Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa and Mark McGuire.  Eye-popping stats, and part of their career mired in some scandal or another.

"some scandal or another" = jacking your body with steroids for years and years as compared to what amounts to sign stealing and a corked bat, at worst. LOL. there's no comparison to be made there.


Sign stealing? You mean the scandal that the Astros and the players who were there at the time are still paying the price for, which resulted in long-term suspensions and firings along with long-term hate from the fans of every team the Astros played?
 
2022-02-01 12:18:51 PM  
s3.amazonaws.comView Full Size
 
2022-02-01 2:50:45 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: drewsclues: kukukupo: Well, he is definitely in the same conversation as Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa and Mark McGuire.  Eye-popping stats, and part of their career mired in some scandal or another.

"some scandal or another" = jacking your body with steroids for years and years as compared to what amounts to sign stealing and a corked bat, at worst. LOL. there's no comparison to be made there.

Sign stealing? You mean the scandal that the Astros and the players who were there at the time are still paying the price for, which resulted in long-term suspensions and firings along with long-term hate from the fans of every team the Astros played?


Yes, the same. And everyone involved was punished in BOTH instances. The Patriots/Astros cheated, no doubt about it. I won't defend it. Does that equate to Brady tarnishing his legacy in the way that Bonds or McGwire did? No farking way.
 
2022-02-01 3:05:08 PM  

knbwhite: It would be crazy to look at the texts in the deflated balls thing and not believe the allegations were true.


In the same way that it would be crazy to look at drinking urine and not believe that it cures Covid. After all, if a single text can refute universal physical laws, then surely a Facebook forward can refute modern medicine.
 
2022-02-01 4:18:10 PM  

iamskibibitz: Meh. As far as I know he wasn't ever accused of cheating in Tampa. And his career didn't exactly take a nosedive when he moved over there.


Well, it wasn't cheating, per se, but his golfing buddy did a little "oopsie" while president and unleashed a global pandemic on the country that ravaged his opponent's O-line.
 
2022-02-01 4:19:54 PM  

Theaetetus: knbwhite: It would be crazy to look at the texts in the deflated balls thing and not believe the allegations were true.

In the same way that it would be crazy to look at drinking urine and not believe that it cures Covid. After all, if a single text can refute universal physical laws, then surely a Facebook forward can refute modern medicine.


Thank you.  For several years I had been led to believe John Jastremski's penis was a heavily powdered nacho chip.  Now I am free!!!
 
2022-02-01 4:25:38 PM  

Theaetetus: knbwhite: It would be crazy to look at the texts in the deflated balls thing and not believe the allegations were true.

In the same way that it would be crazy to look at drinking urine and not believe that it cures Covid. After all, if a single text can refute universal physical laws, then surely a Facebook forward can refute modern medicine.


Have you read the texts?
And I don't think the inflation thing was that big a deal, especially since the league allowed the team to condition the balls beforehand anyway. Do you have an opinion on the links I posted?
 
2022-02-01 4:33:19 PM  

Nana's Vibrator: Theaetetus: knbwhite: It would be crazy to look at the texts in the deflated balls thing and not believe the allegations were true.

In the same way that it would be crazy to look at drinking urine and not believe that it cures Covid. After all, if a single text can refute universal physical laws, then surely a Facebook forward can refute modern medicine.

Thank you.  For several years I had been led to believe John Jastremski's penis was a heavily powdered nacho chip.  Now I am free!!!


Now do McNally.
 
2022-02-01 4:41:11 PM  
Rob Parker? Someone's still paying this brain-damaged dumbo to "write" stuff?


ROB PARKER: WORST SPORTS JOURNALIST EVER
Youtube _95u5Rs5nw8
 
2022-02-01 4:55:07 PM  

Nana's Vibrator: Theaetetus: knbwhite: It would be crazy to look at the texts in the deflated balls thing and not believe the allegations were true.

In the same way that it would be crazy to look at drinking urine and not believe that it cures Covid. After all, if a single text can refute universal physical laws, then surely a Facebook forward can refute modern medicine.

Thank you.  For several years I had been led to believe John Jastremski's penis was a heavily powdered nacho chip.  Now I am free!!!


C'mon man,

McNally: "Tom sucks...im going to make that next ball a f---in balloon." (Oct. 17, 2014)
   
Jastremski: "Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done..." (Oct. 17, 2014)
 
2022-02-01 7:08:30 PM  

knbwhite: Theaetetus: knbwhite: It would be crazy to look at the texts in the deflated balls thing and not believe the allegations were true.

In the same way that it would be crazy to look at drinking urine and not believe that it cures Covid. After all, if a single text can refute universal physical laws, then surely a Facebook forward can refute modern medicine.

Have you read the texts?


Yep. Doesn't matter. You could literally have a text that said "I deflated the balls, just like the Orchid Spa did to Bob Kraft" and that wouldn't change the fact that when measured, the balls were not deflated but were exactly consistent with the ambient temperature and time. Just like when you get a Facebook forward that says Joe Rogan drank a cup full of urine and recovered from Covid, that doesn't mean that urine actually cures Covid.

Calling someone "The Deflator", for whatever stupid reason, doesn't change physics.

/also, I believe that Brady destroyed his phone because he had a whole bunch of racist shiat on there that he knew would get leaked, just like the same guy doing the investigation leaked Richie Incognito's phone texts when he was investigating him
 
2022-02-01 8:20:33 PM  

Theaetetus: You could literally have a text that said "I deflated the balls, just like the Orchid Spa did to Bob Kraft" and that wouldn't change the fact that when measured, the balls were not deflated but were exactly consistent with the ambient temperature and time.


This is not true now, nor has it ever been no matter how many times Fark Patriot TruthersTM try to repeat into reality.

Theaetetus: Calling someone "The Deflator", for whatever stupid reason, doesn't change physics.


Denying the actual findings from the actual experts on the actual physics doesn't change them either:

"We conclude that within the range of game characteristics most likely to have occurred on Game Day, we have identified no set of credible environmental or physical factors that completely accounts for the additional loss in air pressure exhibited by the Patriots game balls as compared to the loss in air pressure exhibited by the Colts game balls."
 
2022-02-01 8:31:05 PM  

Nana's Vibrator: Reading's hard


For you, it's damn near impossible. Look...

This is your team
Fark user imageView Full Size


These are your heroes
Fark user imageView Full Size


This is what you defend
Fark user imageView Full Size


You can accept reality for what it is or keep tilting against windmills to no avail over the fact that your so called principles go by the wayside as soon as your favorite sportsball team is involved. You're not fooling anyone.
 
2022-02-01 9:37:53 PM  

the1hatman: This is not true now, nor has it ever been no matter how many times Fark Patriot TruthersTM try to repeat into reality.


Yes, it is.

Denying the actual findings from the actual experts on the actual physics doesn't change them either:

That'd be the company hired to defend the NFL's report. They were paid to find that conclusion, and had to twist the physics and disregard a bunch of facts in order to get there. Here's the actual experts* with the actual physics:
The Ideal Gas Law resulted in a significant reduction of pressure in the Patriots' footballs. This drop occurred naturally. The league now recognizes this. Its own reports state that the Ideal Gas Law accounted for a loss of as much as 1.18 psig (a reduction from 12.5 to 11.32 psig).
The league's accusation against Mr. Brady therefore was not that he was responsible for all or even most of the pressure loss. It was that he was responsible for an increment of additional pressure loss beyond that which occurred naturally...
The very existence of any increment, moreover, was divined through assumption. The data necessary for any bona fide scientific analysis was never collected. The league, yet again, recognizes this. It states that its analysis is "dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain." JA250. These assumptions and uncertainties relate to critical variables necessary to determine the nature of the pressure loss. Indeed, the league states that "varying the applicable assumptions can have a material impact on the ultimate conclusions." JA108.6

For example, in asserting that the additional increment could have been as low as 0.14 psig, the league assumed a locker room temperature of 67 ºF when the footballs were tested pre-game. JA308-09. But elsewhere in its analysis, it assumed that the temperature, in the same room at the same time, was 71 ºF. JA307. It simply switched the assumption. Had the league used its 71 degree assumption consistently, then the 0.14 psig increment changes to -0.06 psig.7 The alleged deflation becomes non-existent.


And the conclusion: There is no scientific proof of tampering.

*independent ones, not being paid by anyone. From the brief:
Proposed amici are professors of engineering and physics. Their titles and qualifications are set forth in Addendum A of the proposed brief. They include faculty from: Massachusetts Institute of Technology; Boston College; Purdue University; Stanford University; University of California, Berkeley; University of Delaware; University of Michigan; University of Minnesota; University of Pennsylvania; and University of Southern California. These professors have an interest in ensuring that laws of physics are applied with scientific integrity in legal proceedings. They have not sought or received any compensation in connection with the proposed brief. They submit it out of professional conviction that scientific principles be explained and put to fair use.

But you really want a slam-dunk argument that the NFL faked the science, that there was no deflation, and Goodell knows it?
The year after Deflategate, the NFL randomly** collected and measured game balls in a large variety of games under a large variety of weather conditions. They refused to share any of those measurements with the officials or the media, despite it being a requirement that the officials record the measurements in their game log:
"The officials were supposed to know the information so they could file their Referee's Report, but apparently it wasn't necessary to follow the guidelines.
The league went out of their way to disregard the rules they created for this exact reason because they knew that there was nothing wrong with the Patriots footballs."


There is no reason to keep those measurements secret... unless they destroy the credibility of Goodell and the Wells Report. And so, the only reasonable conclusion is that they do.

**almost every Patriots game
 
2022-02-01 9:54:14 PM  

Theaetetus: That'd be the company hired to defend the NFL's report.


Except Exponent was commissioned at the beginning of the investigation to determine whether further study of the matter was even needed. The Wells report came out after the study so how could the study be rigged to support a report that had not taken place yet?

Also, that you expect everyone to believe that the firm hired by the league isn't trustworthy but the one hired by Brady's defense team is just shows how much of a homer you really are. Doubling down by linking an "article" from a Pats fan blog is even more sad.
 
2022-02-01 10:34:39 PM  

the1hatman: Theaetetus: That'd be the company hired to defend the NFL's report.

Except Exponent was commissioned at the beginning of the investigation to determine whether further study of the matter was even needed. The Wells report came out after the study so how could the study be rigged to support a report that had not taken place yet?


You don't think Goodell had his conclusion in place before the investigation started? Hell, he made public statements about it before Wells was hired.

Also, that you expect everyone to believe that the firm hired by the league isn't trustworthy but the one hired by Brady's defense team is just shows how much of a homer you really are. Doubling down by linking an "article" from a Pats fan blog is even more sad.

What part of "They have not sought or received any compensation in connection with the proposed brief" do you not understand? Is it literally everything? Do you understand these words? Have you had a stroke?
 
2022-02-01 10:36:32 PM  
From literally page one of the physics professor's brief:
No party's counsel authored this brief in whole or in part. No party, no counsel for any party, and no person other than amici curiae or their counsel contributed money that was intended to fund preparation or submission of this brief.

smh
 
2022-02-01 10:38:16 PM  
Also telling is Exponent has never responded to the numerous scientific criticisms of their report, other than to say "we stand by the assumptions we made (that we admit materially changed the results)."
 
2022-02-02 12:58:48 AM  

Theaetetus: You don't think Goodell had his conclusion in place before the investigation started?


What exactly would be his motivation? To have the league look bad by creating a fake cheating scandal for no reason? That's some 911 Truther level of tin foil hat conspiracy ya got going there.

Theaetetus: Hell, he made public statements about it before Wells was hired.


Exactly what were these public statements? Show your work.

Theaetetus: What part of "They have not sought or received any compensation in connection with the proposed brief" do you not understand? Is it literally everything?


So you believe they did it out of the goodness of their hearts, gotcha. I clerk for the ACLU. I can speak volumes about "unpaid, independent witnesses". Even so, you don't get to assume one side's experts are clean while the other's are dirty with no evidence other than conspiracy theory nonsense that you can't even get the timeline correct on.

More importantly, how did the appeal you linked there go for Brady exactly? Oh yes, it lost because "the evidence of ball tampering is compelling, if not overwhelming" as stated by the 2nd Circuit.

Want to know why? Because although the "independent experts" listed in the document stated that Exponent's findings were "dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain", that point was rendered mute by the fact that Exponent covered their bases by testing every combination of both gauges possible use in the before and after measurements. Wheres, Brady's side did not preform a single experiment, test or simulation to refute Exponent's results. They simply read the report and cherry picked the data that could be skewed to support the defense's case**. The court correctly ruled that there were no "unsupported assumptions" in any part of Exponent's study. They used all known facts and statements provided by all parties and even ran simulations outside of what was known to be possible given the conditions that day as a control. Evidence so thorough and compelling that upon Brady's last ditch appeal the court again ruled against him with not a single judge on the 13-member panel issuing a dissent.

Your boy got caught, lied about it and destroyed evidence to cover it up. Do I think he's a filthy cheater whose reputation should be tarnished forever? Nah because he would have annihilated the Colts defense regardless. But were the Pats guilty of tampering with the game balls? Yes.

**Including leaving out the fact that the Colts game balls, which indeed had deflated in a manner consistent with ideal gas law, still had different readings than the Patriots game balls despite being subject to the same conditions that day.

Theaetetus: Also telling is Exponent has never responded to the numerous scientific criticisms of their report, other than to say "we stand by the assumptions we made (that we admit materially changed the results)."


Your obvious bias in that blatant misquote aside, saying "we stand by the results of our testing" IS refuting such criticisms. They did the work and showed the results. No opposition source has ever ran any test or experiment that shows Exponent's results are incorrect or faked in any way.
 
2022-02-02 4:41:12 AM  

the1hatman: What exactly would be his motivation? To have the league look bad by creating a fake cheating scandal for no reason? That's some 911 Truther level of tin foil hat conspiracy ya got going there.
...Exactly what were these public statements? Show your work.


https://www.cnn.com/2015/01/23/us/nfl-patriots-deflategate/index.html: "... the evidence thus far supports the conclusion that footballs that were under-inflated were used by the Patriots in the first half..."
Goodell made that statement on January 22, well before Wells or Exponent were hired. And what was his motivation in hiring Wells and Exponent and ordering them to support his pre-stated conclusion? So that he wouldn't be publicly discredited.

Theaetetus: What part of "They have not sought or received any compensation in connection with the proposed brief" do you not understand? Is it literally everything?

So you believe they did it out of the goodness of their hearts, gotcha. I clerk for the ACLU. I can speak volumes about "unpaid, independent witnesses".


Pouring coffee isn't clerking, but nonetheless, ask your bosses some time how the 2nd Circuit looks upon perjury, if you really feel that a group of physics professors from all over the country lied in their affidavit, facing jail and loss of their careers.

Even so, you don't get to assume one side's experts are clean while the other's are dirty with no evidence other than conspiracy theory nonsense that you can't even get the timeline correct on.

The experts I cited were not "one side" - they were independent and objective, unpaid, and made their statements without consultation with either side. And you have no evidence they weren't other than that you clean the bathrooms at the ACLU.
Your side's "experts" were hired specifically to find a preconceived conclusion, and have had past issues with credibility, neutrality, and conflicts of interest. Ooops.

More importantly, how did the appeal you linked there go for Brady exactly? Oh yes, it lost because "the evidence of ball tampering is compelling, if not overwhelming" as stated by the 2nd Circuit.
[snip]...Your obvious bias in that blatant misquote aside,...


You accuse me of a "blatant misquote", and yet that quote was a complete fabrication. Here's the 2nd Circuit's opinion. That "quote" is entirely absent. The word compelling appears once - ("Tellingly, the Commissioner went on to remind the Association that this procedure "ha[d] been employed in numerous disciplinary hearings over the past two decades and ha[d] never before been asserted as a basis for compelling the Commissioner or anyone else to testify in an Article 46 disciplinary proceeding.") - and the word overwhelming is entirely absent.

Weren't you the one just yammering on about lying and credibility? Projection apparently.

Want to know why? Because although the "independent experts" listed in the document stated that Exponent's findings were "dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain", that point was rendered mute by the fact that Exponent covered their bases by testing every combination of both gauges possible use in the before and after measurements...

And then disregarded the ones that refuted their conclusion, saying that even though the highly credible witness remembered using this gauge, that would mean the balls weren't deflated, so they were going to assume he was wrong on this one issue while citing his credibility elsewhere.
That's not covering your bases - that's taking one base and throwing it away because you saw the runner approaching.

Wheres, Brady's side did not preform a single experiment, test or simulation to refute Exponent's results.
They simply read the report and cherry picked the data that could be skewed to support the defense's case**.


Perhaps you should go back and read that brief I linked. There's pages of simulations and discussion of measurements.

**Including leaving out the fact that the Colts game balls, which indeed had deflated in a manner consistent with ideal gas law, still had different readings than the Patriots game balls despite being subject to the same conditions that day.

They discussed that too, and noted that they weren't "subject to the same conditions", but were instead allowed to warm up first before being measured.

The court correctly ruled that there were no "unsupported assumptions" in any part of Exponent's study.

Hey, look, another blatant fabrication! Neither of those words appears in the appeal's court ruling.

Evidence so thorough and compelling that upon Brady's last ditch appeal the court again ruled against him with not a single judge on the 13-member panel issuing a dissent.

Not a single judge on the 13-member panel issued an opinion either. And a judge on the 3-member panel issued a lengthy dissent.

No opposition source has ever ran any test or experiment that shows Exponent's results are incorrect or faked in any way.

Not "opposition sources", but independent and objective physicists - and not just the ones on the amicus brief, but dozens of others - have performed tests and experiments that prove Exponent's conclusions were incorrect and unsupported by the evidence.

And again, I note you have no response to the fact that the NFL never released any of their measurements the following year, despite their own regulations requiring those measurements to be published.

Face it, Goodell made defamatory statements, got caught with egg on his face, and paid a firm with a history of ethical conflicts and cherry-picking of evidence to publish a report saying he was right. That firm's credibility was publicly destroyed when dozens of independent physicists pointed out all of their logical flaws. Brady won his suit against Goodell, and it was overturned on narrow grounds regarding the collective bargaining agreement that effectively gives Goodell unlimited power to determine what constitutes something "detrimental" to the NFL's public image and to act as his own appellate judge when questioned. Hell, the appeals court even noted that the CBA allowed Goodell to use a non-independent investigator that he personally guided to a conclusion - and that not only could Brady be denied access to the investigator's notes, he could also be denied the chance to even question the investigator. They didn't reverse on factual issues or find that there was "compelling" evidence or that Exponent's assumptions were correct as you claimed - those weren't even issues on appeal. It was solely whether Goodell could write his own conclusion, justify it with a handwave without requiring any evidence, and issue a suspension. And under the terms of the CBA, he could.
 
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