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(Yahoo)   You can't conserve water if you don't have any to begin with   (yahoo.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Water resources, Phoenix, Arizona, Colorado River, Arizona cities, city-provided review of their water use, Water, Lake Mead, water shortages  
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4329 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jan 2022 at 6:02 PM (21 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-01-30 3:33:49 PM  
Can't *waste* water if you don't have any, either!

(smiles, taps head)
 
2022-01-30 3:35:15 PM  
Because we're not at that stage yet.

I moved to the Phoenix area in 1990. Been gone a while but keep up with friends. Talked to a guy from there last summer and brought up this very issue. He says:

"We're not seeing any water issues yet and I haven't'heard of anyone having problems. Maybe in 10 years."

I heard "10 years" when I lived there. It's always 10 years and somebody else's problem. It's not possible to live there and never hear of any water issues. That takes willful ignorance.
 
2022-01-30 4:00:34 PM  
They wait until it is almost too late and then try to do something. This time there is no CAP to save them.
 
2022-01-30 4:03:01 PM  
Another thing to keep in mind is Tempe Town Lake is filled with water from the Colorado River.  Yes that one.
 
2022-01-30 4:09:10 PM  
When you get entire states taking water from the same pipe (Colorado river), and the flow from that pipe gets reduced.  You should reduce what you take from the pipe at the same time.

they have not done that.  They are so farked

conservation works, but only to a point.
 
2022-01-30 6:07:54 PM  
I love that normal residents are being asked to conserve water while almond growers use tens of thousands of gallons of water to grow almonds in the desert, then crush them up, mix them with more water, and sell it for $25/gallon to idiots who think non-dairy "milks" are somehow better for them because someone sold them a bill of goods about "inflammation."

Anyways, have to go back to enjoying limitless freshwater. Cheers!
 
2022-01-30 6:09:00 PM  
It's absolutely mystifying that Phoenix exists. The city is truly a monument to hubris.
 
2022-01-30 6:09:29 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Another thing to keep in mind is Tempe Town Lake is filled with water from the Colorado River.  Yes that one.


I love it when their dam deflates.

bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.comView Full Size
 
2022-01-30 6:10:05 PM  
To think some people are planning to terraform Mars.
 
2022-01-30 6:13:35 PM  
Stop agribusiness farms from growing corn and cotton in the desert. They're the ones sucking up all the water.

I'm in Tucson and have no non-native plants in my yard. They only get what the sky gives them. Collect rainwater from my roof gutters in barrels and use that as much as possible for things like washing.

It's easy to conserve if you just give half a shiat.
 
2022-01-30 6:17:39 PM  
 
2022-01-30 6:20:12 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Another thing to keep in mind is Tempe Town Lake is filled with water from the Colorado River.  Yes that one.


Most of its from the Salt/Verde watershed, though.
 
2022-01-30 6:20:41 PM  
Even if the residents virtuously decline to shower, most of the water is going to agriculture anyway.
 
2022-01-30 6:24:48 PM  
There's plenty of water for drinking and industrial use. Agricultural uses account for over 70% of water use in AZ.
 
2022-01-30 6:25:13 PM  
How about you cut off the golf courses and agriculture growing non-desert crops in the desert.

But that would hurt billionaires and we just can't have that.
 
2022-01-30 6:32:47 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: I love that normal residents are being asked to conserve water while almond growers use tens of thousands of gallons of water to grow almonds in the desert, then crush them up, mix them with more water, and sell it for $25/gallon to idiots who think non-dairy "milks" are somehow better for them because someone sold them a bill of goods about "inflammation."

Anyways, have to go back to enjoying limitless freshwater. Cheers!


Yes, because we all know that cows do not require water to produce their baby calf milk and that there's no way large groups of people can benefit from not chugging said excretions.

But you do you, Moo.
 
2022-01-30 6:33:38 PM  

TofuTheAlmighty: It's absolutely mystifying that Phoenix exists. The city is truly a monument to hubris.


i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2022-01-30 6:41:26 PM  

Nadie_AZ: They wait until it is almost too late and then try to do something. This time there is no CAP to save them.


Exactly.  Once the tap runs dry they will be SHOCKED and start to conserve.... then come the protests because freedums.
Water wars will be a thing in the next 20, 30 years.
 
2022-01-30 6:44:39 PM  

reyreyrey: 137 Is An Excellent Time: I love that normal residents are being asked to conserve water while almond growers use tens of thousands of gallons of water to grow almonds in the desert, then crush them up, mix them with more water, and sell it for $25/gallon to idiots who think non-dairy "milks" are somehow better for them because someone sold them a bill of goods about "inflammation."

Anyways, have to go back to enjoying limitless freshwater. Cheers!

Yes, because we all know that cows do not require water to produce their baby calf milk and that there's no way large groups of people can benefit from not chugging said excretions.

But you do you, Moo.


The cows milk I drink is sourced from the same limitless freshwater I drink from. So, cry moar?

upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size
 
2022-01-30 6:44:54 PM  

PhoenixFarker: There's plenty of water for drinking and industrial use. Agricultural uses account for over 70% of water use in AZ.


Yes. But those using the 70% have money and lobbyists so stop flushing your toilet and get used to drinking rain water because the money must flow
 
2022-01-30 6:51:13 PM  

Kiler: TofuTheAlmighty: It's absolutely mystifying that Phoenix exists. The city is truly a monument to hubris.

[i.imgur.com image 145x248]


Oh, that's terrifying. I've watched maybe 20 min. total of KotH

/definitely seen AT&T Lily commercials
 
2022-01-30 6:53:29 PM  
I live within a quarter mile of THREE creeks that are more than 15' wide. Good luck AZ farkers!

/my entire dad's side of the family lives in AZ
//except one uncle in CO
///I'll take my cold over your lack of water anyday.
 
2022-01-30 6:54:48 PM  
137 Is An Excellent Time:
The cows milk I drink is sourced from the same limitless freshwater I drink from. So, cry moar?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 792x469]


Hey!  I can see my house in that picture.

/ Not really.
// I live 3 miles from Lake Michigan
/// 2 miles North of the Illinois border.  Thank FSM.
 
2022-01-30 7:05:16 PM  
ih1.redbubble.netView Full Size
 
2022-01-30 7:05:29 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: reyreyrey: 137 Is An Excellent Time: I love that normal residents are being asked to conserve water while almond growers use tens of thousands of gallons of water to grow almonds in the desert, then crush them up, mix them with more water, and sell it for $25/gallon to idiots who think non-dairy "milks" are somehow better for them because someone sold them a bill of goods about "inflammation."

Anyways, have to go back to enjoying limitless freshwater. Cheers!

Yes, because we all know that cows do not require water to produce their baby calf milk and that there's no way large groups of people can benefit from not chugging said excretions.

But you do you, Moo.

The cows milk I drink is sourced from the same limitless freshwater I drink from. So, cry moar?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 792x469]


So ... where are all those desert almond farms that are using all the water in your area??????
And where are the cattle being raised that give the milk to the people in AZ?
 
2022-01-30 7:09:17 PM  

TofuTheAlmighty: It's absolutely mystifying that Phoenix exists. The city is truly a monument to hubris.


Maybe, but like Palm Springs, CA, there are natural aquifers, the rivers are underground..  Also the energy needed to cool a building from 100F to 80F is less than the energy needed to warm a building from 30F to 70F.

/not saying PHX is a good idea
//just that it's not so crazy given a closer look
///I do not like the desert
 
2022-01-30 7:12:16 PM  

FarkingChas: 137 Is An Excellent Time: reyreyrey: 137 Is An Excellent Time: I love that normal residents are being asked to conserve water while almond growers use tens of thousands of gallons of water to grow almonds in the desert, then crush them up, mix them with more water, and sell it for $25/gallon to idiots who think non-dairy "milks" are somehow better for them because someone sold them a bill of goods about "inflammation."

Anyways, have to go back to enjoying limitless freshwater. Cheers!

Yes, because we all know that cows do not require water to produce their baby calf milk and that there's no way large groups of people can benefit from not chugging said excretions.

But you do you, Moo.

The cows milk I drink is sourced from the same limitless freshwater I drink from. So, cry moar?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 792x469]

So ... where are all those desert almond farms that are using all the water in your area??????
And where are the cattle being raised that give the milk to the people in AZ?


The article is specifically talking about the lack of water in the SW USA- which is disproportionally being used for agricultural products that are not only grown on reclaimed desert, but are disproportionally water intensive in areas where that water is scarce.

Simultaneously to all this, individuals are expected to reduce their water usage to prioritize all those agricultural products that have no definable need to be used.

So, to answer your question, we don't need to water the desert to grow almonds in Ohio, they do just fine. As for where the people of these desert locales get their milk, they get them from local dairy farms which use that same limited resource at the expense of individual needs.

The whole thing is a scam. If the SW USA wants more water, they have an entire Pacific Ocean to boil.

Or ... they can move East.
 
2022-01-30 7:18:46 PM  

whatisaidwas: TofuTheAlmighty: It's absolutely mystifying that Phoenix exists. The city is truly a monument to hubris.

Maybe, but like Palm Springs, CA, there are natural aquifers, the rivers are underground..  Also the energy needed to cool a building from 100F to 80F is less than the energy needed to warm a building from 30F to 70F.

/not saying PHX is a good idea
//just that it's not so crazy given a closer look
///I do not like the desert


If I've learned anything from Dwarf Fortress, it's that aquifers are things to be avoided.
 
2022-01-30 7:21:28 PM  
137 Is An Excellent Time:
As for where the people of these desert locales get their milk, they get them from local dairy farms which use that same limited resource at the expense of individual needs.

There is your flaw. The same amount of milk can be made with much less water from Almonds then from cows. But soy or plant based is even better than Almonds. So, alternative milk is not a scam. And, I think, plant based milk can be shipped further than cows milk. It can be grown elsewhere.
 
2022-01-30 7:22:11 PM  
That's the downside of mandatory measures. If people aren't willing to play along, the only way to get there is by enforcement, which is expensive, time consuming and usually anger producing.

That's why we enforce laws for important substances like marijuana and not something optional like water.

*'duh' face*
 
2022-01-30 7:28:05 PM  

FarkingChas: 137 Is An Excellent Time:
As for where the people of these desert locales get their milk, they get them from local dairy farms which use that same limited resource at the expense of individual needs.

There is your flaw. The same amount of milk can be made with much less water from Almonds then from cows. But soy or plant based is even better than Almonds. So, alternative milk is not a scam. And, I think, plant based milk can be shipped further than cows milk. It can be grown elsewhere.


Both can be shipped around the world and produced anywhere. Most of Asia that uses milk operates on UHT, condensed and milk powder.

NZ exports most of its production globally, and per capita we're probably the largest milk producer.
 
2022-01-30 7:31:02 PM  

FarkingChas: 137 Is An Excellent Time:
As for where the people of these desert locales get their milk, they get them from local dairy farms which use that same limited resource at the expense of individual needs.

There is your flaw. The same amount of milk can be made with much less water from Almonds then from cows. But soy or plant based is even better than Almonds. So, alternative milk is not a scam. And, I think, plant based milk can be shipped further than cows milk. It can be grown elsewhere.


The difference is, of course, that almonds are produced mainly in water lacking regions whereas dairy - again - can be produced where water is not just plentiful, but unlimited.

If we were having a discussion of water shortages in the Great Lakes, you might have a point, but we are not.

Again, we are specifically addressing the massive shortages of water in drought stricken areas of the Southwest USA and the continued likelihood that water will be in shortage for the foreseeable future. It would behoove us to address our water usage in aggregate in places where water usage must be contemplated.

But, right now at least, the Great Lakes is mainly a closed loop system. What is used is put right back in the same system it was taken. The Saint Lawrence Seaway still reaches the Atlantic - unlike, say, the Colorado and the Pacific.
 
2022-01-30 7:34:02 PM  
137 Is An Excellent Time:

The whole thing is a scam. If the SW USA wants more water, they have an entire Pacific Ocean to boil.

Or ... they can move East.


While desalinization is a good idea, where do you put the salt waste? You can't dump it back in the ocean, it would create more dead zones. I then becomes a NIMBY problem.
 
2022-01-30 7:34:31 PM  

Nicholas D. Wolfwood: Can't *waste* water if you don't have any, either!

(smiles, taps head)


Please remember to shut off any unnecessary taps.
 
2022-01-30 7:37:47 PM  

MightyMerkin: 137 Is An Excellent Time:

The whole thing is a scam. If the SW USA wants more water, they have an entire Pacific Ocean to boil.

Or ... they can move East.

While desalinization is a good idea, where do you put the salt waste? You can't dump it back in the ocean, it would create more dead zones. I then becomes a NIMBY problem.


Dumping the concentrate back into the ocean is exactly what they do.
 
2022-01-30 7:43:12 PM  
Soy milk is better than cow and almond so eat my bum
 
2022-01-30 7:44:05 PM  

MightyMerkin: 137 Is An Excellent Time:

The whole thing is a scam. If the SW USA wants more water, they have an entire Pacific Ocean to boil.

Or ... they can move East.

While desalinization is a good idea, where do you put the salt waste? You can't dump it back in the ocean, it would create more dead zones. I then becomes a NIMBY problem.


Burger King fries.
 
2022-01-30 7:44:37 PM  
Also the only environmental impact is dairy cows is the water they use!

JerkingIt.gif
 
2022-01-30 7:48:17 PM  
Scottsdale will no longer make water available to those who live outside city limits and is asking residents to voluntarily conserve 5%, perhaps by replacing turf and water-intensive landscaping, choosing not to overseed grass in the winter or by scheduling a free, city-provided review of their water use.

Absolutely amazing that it's considered an emergency measure to ask people to perhaps not maintain a lush green lawn in a farking desert.

If the ornamental outdoor plants don't grow if you don't water them they don't belong in your climate.
 
2022-01-30 7:52:16 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: reyreyrey: 137 Is An Excellent Time: I love that normal residents are being asked to conserve water while almond growers use tens of thousands of gallons of water to grow almonds in the desert, then crush them up, mix them with more water, and sell it for $25/gallon to idiots who think non-dairy "milks" are somehow better for them because someone sold them a bill of goods about "inflammation."

Anyways, have to go back to enjoying limitless freshwater. Cheers!

Yes, because we all know that cows do not require water to produce their baby calf milk and that there's no way large groups of people can benefit from not chugging said excretions.

But you do you, Moo.

The cows milk I drink is sourced from the same limitless freshwater I drink from. So, cry moar?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 792x469]


Go suck a cow's udder.
 
2022-01-30 8:12:21 PM  

MightyMerkin: 137 Is An Excellent Time:

The whole thing is a scam. If the SW USA wants more water, they have an entire Pacific Ocean to boil.

Or ... they can move East.

While desalinization is a good idea, where do you put the salt waste? You can't dump it back in the ocean, it would create more dead zones. I then becomes a NIMBY problem.


Israel seems to do it just fine. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Anyways, is there anything alive left in the LA Harbor to worry about harming?
 
2022-01-30 8:14:11 PM  

reyreyrey: 137 Is An Excellent Time: reyreyrey: 137 Is An Excellent Time: I love that normal residents are being asked to conserve water while almond growers use tens of thousands of gallons of water to grow almonds in the desert, then crush them up, mix them with more water, and sell it for $25/gallon to idiots who think non-dairy "milks" are somehow better for them because someone sold them a bill of goods about "inflammation."

Anyways, have to go back to enjoying limitless freshwater. Cheers!

Yes, because we all know that cows do not require water to produce their baby calf milk and that there's no way large groups of people can benefit from not chugging said excretions.

But you do you, Moo.

The cows milk I drink is sourced from the same limitless freshwater I drink from. So, cry moar?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 792x469]

Go suck a cow's udder.


assets.nrdc.orgView Full Size


Look at all the farks I give!
 
2022-01-30 8:14:47 PM  

Moose out front: Stop agribusiness farms from growing corn and cotton in the desert. They're the ones sucking up all the water.

I'm in Tucson and have no non-native plants in my yard. They only get what the sky gives them. Collect rainwater from my roof gutters in barrels and use that as much as possible for things like washing.

It's easy to conserve if you just give half a shiat.


This is America. If people want to grow water intensive crops in the desert they are free to do so. If other people don't have water that's the government's problem. If the government tries to do anything about it that's socialism. Socialism is tyranny. This is America, goddammit!

/I've accepted the fact that my grandchildren will have to live in a fortified village and fend off attacks from marauding bands intent on stealing their precious supply of clean water and long pig jerkey.
//the rest of the universe is probably better off if we never advance to the stage of interstellar travel anyway.
 
2022-01-30 8:15:09 PM  
If you live in Arizona you live in a desert.
If you live in a desert and don't conserve water year-round you're a fecking idiot.
 
2022-01-30 8:21:47 PM  

ctighe2353: Nadie_AZ: They wait until it is almost too late and then try to do something. This time there is no CAP to save them.

Exactly.  Once the tap runs dry they will be SHOCKED and start to conserve.... then come the protests because freedums.
Water wars will be a thing in the next 20, 30 years.


Taps are never going to run dry. Farmers and ranchers will go out of business, Mellencamp and other idiots will hold benefits for them, and prices on cotton, beef, and citrus will increase somewhat, but the taps won't run dry. Except in Rio Verde and places similarly situated, and those wankers deserve what they get
 
2022-01-30 8:25:32 PM  

MightyMerkin: 137 Is An Excellent Time:

The whole thing is a scam. If the SW USA wants more water, they have an entire Pacific Ocean to boil.

Or ... they can move East.

While desalinization is a good idea, where do you put the salt waste? You can't dump it back in the ocean, it would create more dead zones. I then becomes a NIMBY problem.


Ship it to the north to put on the roads to melt ice.
 
2022-01-30 8:54:41 PM  

edmo: Because we're not at that stage yet.

I moved to the Phoenix area in 1990. Been gone a while but keep up with friends. Talked to a guy from there last summer and brought up this very issue. He says:

"We're not seeing any water issues yet and I haven't'heard of anyone having problems. Maybe in 10 years."

I heard "10 years" when I lived there. It's always 10 years and somebody else's problem. It's not possible to live there and never hear of any water issues. That takes willful ignorance.


If they started conserving right now, it might never become a problem.

I live in Florida but I still try to conserve water, such as by not running the shower the entire time, peeing outside and drinking alcohol on a daily basis.

The last one actually saves water by allowing me to reuse cups without washing. See, if I drink some juice and then some water, there's still some organic matter in the glass that will eventually build up into a disgusting biofilm. This definitely happens when trying to reuse cups for brushing one's teeth multiple times.

However, if I use that same cup to drink some wine and then a couple of shots of vodka, it cleans the cup without wasting any water.

I firmly believe that when Ke$ha talked about brushing her teeth with a bottle of Jack, she was espousing the virtues of water conservation.
 
2022-01-30 8:57:11 PM  
Here's a novel idea...STOP building homes in THE DESERT!
That, or DO NOT allow them to haul in dirt & plant grass.
 
2022-01-30 9:07:54 PM  
With Scottsdale's population up 22% in the most recent census, the 5% voluntary water reduction won't matter. Maybe prohibit real estate sales and childbirth for a couple decades?
 
2022-01-30 11:52:41 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: I love that normal residents are being asked to conserve water while almond growers use tens of thousands of gallons of water to grow almonds in the desert, then crush them up, mix them with more water, and sell it for $25/gallon to idiots who think non-dairy "milks" are somehow better for them because someone sold them a bill of goods about "inflammation."

Anyways, have to go back to enjoying limitless freshwater. Cheers!


It's like $5-$10 a gallon and no one buys it for inflammation. Cow milk justs tastes bad. What am I supposed to dip cookies in?
Oatmilk is ok too I guess, but cow milk is nasty and gives me the shiats.
 
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