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(Fark)   My friend mentioned he'd never watched Star Trek DS9 and I'm wondering whether I should start from the beginning or throw him into the deep end with "In the Pale Moonlight". Thoughts?   (fark.com) divider line
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104 clicks; posted to Discussion » on 28 Jan 2022 at 8:35 PM (15 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-01-28 7:31:29 PM  
I would cherry pick episodes from the first season or two, then go through from there. I don't think something like In The Pale Moonlight would land as well without being familiar with the characters and the overall war arc at that point.
 
2022-01-28 7:33:33 PM  
There's probably about 70 episodes you need to watch.

More if you want to see the Chief be tortured in various ways
 
2022-01-28 7:37:24 PM  
I'm still thinking about starting it as well.
 
2022-01-28 7:37:28 PM  
It's a pretty hard slog through the first seasons if you're not in the 1990's and willing to watch it because hey, it's on, might as well, but it does pay off if you stick with it. I think NeoCortex42 probably has the right approach.
 
2022-01-28 7:46:09 PM  
You need to fall in love/hate with the characters.  As much of a slog as the first couple of seasons are, they pay dividends later.  But just one good episode probably won't resonate nearly as much.
 
2022-01-28 7:48:52 PM  
Start from the beginning. Season 1 is uneven (there's some decent episodes like "Duet", and then some not-so-great like "Move Along Home") and it's clear they don't really know what to do with the show just yet. It starts to figure itself out toward the end of Season 1 but takes until season 3 to really start hitting its stride
 
2022-01-28 7:52:21 PM  
Always better from the beginning...
 
2022-01-28 7:53:10 PM  
And for what it's worth, I think the holosuite episodes (Baseball, Bond parody, etc) are fun. I don't care what the haters say.
 
2022-01-28 7:54:27 PM  

NeoCortex42: And for what it's worth, I think the holosuite episodes (Baseball, Bond parody, etc) are fun. I don't care what the haters say.


I love those. Just to break up the neverending gloom of the war.
 
2022-01-28 8:02:41 PM  
I haven't seen the entire series, just bits and pieces.

Are there any middle/later "plug and play" episodes which might work here? Eps which can draw you in to the characters and series but can stand on their own as an episode (without needing a lot of backstory)? Not necessarily the best episode of the series.

Example: Cause and Effect from TNG


/not subby
//if this question were about TNG I'd say skip most of the first season, and the second
 
2022-01-28 8:08:11 PM  

puffy999: I haven't seen the entire series, just bits and pieces.

Are there any middle/later "plug and play" episodes which might work here? Eps which can draw you in to the characters and series but can stand on their own as an episode (without needing a lot of backstory)? Not necessarily the best episode of the series.

Example: Cause and Effect from TNG


/not subby
//if this question were about TNG I'd say skip most of the first season, and the second


The latter seasons are really serialized. There are some episodes that might work outside of the story arc, but I'd think they still rely on being pretty familiar with the characters to really appreciate. Far Beyond the Stars, for example. Or The Visitor.
 
2022-01-28 8:12:24 PM  

puffy999: I haven't seen the entire series, just bits and pieces.

Are there any middle/later "plug and play" episodes which might work here? Eps which can draw you in to the characters and series but can stand on their own as an episode (without needing a lot of backstory)? Not necessarily the best episode of the series.

Example: Cause and Effect from TNG


/not subby
//if this question were about TNG I'd say skip most of the first season, and the second


DS9 1x19 'Duet' Trailer (30s)
Youtube JhejHvL5ByQ

First season, good world building without too much mysticism of pahs and wormhole aliens, prophets, etc.
 
2022-01-28 8:33:55 PM  
Babylon 5 was better.

/ducks and runs
 
2022-01-28 8:36:51 PM  

puffy999: I haven't seen the entire series, just bits and pieces.

Are there any middle/later "plug and play" episodes which might work here? Eps which can draw you in to the characters and series but can stand on their own as an episode (without needing a lot of backstory)? Not necessarily the best episode of the series.

Example: Cause and Effect from TNG


/not subby
//if this question were about TNG I'd say skip most of the first season, and the second


"Duet" from Season 1 has been mentioned. I'd also mention the Season 4 opener "Way of the Warrior". It introduces Worf onto the station, it's an awesome episode, and most of the backstory you need is re-presented in the episode (a deliberate choice since the producers were hoping Worf would bring TNG viewers over, so it kind-of serves as an introductory episode for them)
 
2022-01-28 8:38:16 PM  

khitsicker: Babylon 5 was better.

/ducks and runs


Seasons 2-4 of B5 is easily some of the best serialized sci-fi on TV. Season 1 is a chore, though. The last season is a bit of a mess, too.

I'm curious how a reboot will go. It will be next to impossible to improve on some if that original cast.
 
2022-01-28 8:54:41 PM  

NeoCortex42: khitsicker: Babylon 5 was better.

/ducks and runs

Seasons 2−4 of B5 is easily some of the best serialized sci-fi on TV. Season 1 is a chore, though. The last season is a bit of a mess, too.

I'm curious how a reboot will go. It will be next to impossible to improve on some if that original cast.

A reboot is in the works according to JMS hisownself. It'll be a reimagining, not a straight redo. Reading between the lines, I think he's not going to have the same characters for the most part, so we won't be worried that so-and-so actor won't be able to pull off such-and-such character to the standards set by so-and-so former actor who's passed Beyond the Rim.

Season 5 was messed up because the network it was airing on itself ended with Season 4, and there seemed to be no way to continue it, so JMS crammed much of the story originally intended for Season 5 into the last few episodes of Season 4. But then TNT came to the rescue and there was a Season 5 after all, but much of its intended story had already been told, so JMS had to come up with filler.

Season 1 has some important worldbuilding, and some really good episodes. Don't skip it.

It wasn't just one of the best serialized TV series ever. It invented non-soap-opera serialized TV, especially with a preset story that had a beginning, middle, and ending, all laid out before the pilot was filmed. It was technology very advanced for its time in production (episodes filmed in widescreen anticipating HDTV, and with surround sound, as well as being the first to be fully CGI in its effects, using Video Toasters and LightWave 3D), yet always came in on time and under budget.

And let's not forget the awesome musical score.

Oh, and khitsicker, were you on GEnie and its SFRT back in the day? Just curious.
 
2022-01-28 8:55:49 PM  
I've never watched it either. Will I understand it if I haven't watched DS1-8 first?
 
2022-01-28 8:57:11 PM  
 
2022-01-28 8:57:21 PM  
Totally unrelated to your fandom, but last night I became involved in a discussion regarding books with a young dreadlocked man and I recommended the works of Sir Terry Pratchett. He responded that he was not a fan of fiction. I responded that the author dealt in the human condition, by way of fantastical fiction but if his books left you cold, at least you made the attempt.

This morning I dropped off the paperback of Men At Arms for him to peruse.
This evening he responded that he was engrossed. That is all I could wish.

Our local library has a full collection in both print And audio of Sir PTerry. The young man is now on his own and he need not spend money.
 
2022-01-28 8:58:01 PM  

COMALite J: NeoCortex42: khitsicker: Babylon 5 was better.

/ducks and runs

Seasons 2−4 of B5 is easily some of the best serialized sci-fi on TV. Season 1 is a chore, though. The last season is a bit of a mess, too.

I'm curious how a reboot will go. It will be next to impossible to improve on some if that original cast.
A reboot is in the works according to JMS hisownself. It'll be a reimagining, not a straight redo. Reading between the lines, I think he's not going to have the same characters for the most part, so we won't be worried that so-and-so actor won't be able to pull off such-and-such character to the standards set by so-and-so former actor who's passed Beyond the Rim.

Season 5 was messed up because the network it was airing on itself ended with Season 4, and there seemed to be no way to continue it, so JMS crammed much of the story originally intended for Season 5 into the last few episodes of Season 4. But then TNT came to the rescue and there was a Season 5 after all, but much of its intended story had already been told, so JMS had to come up with filler.

Season 1 has some important worldbuilding, and some really good episodes. Don't skip it.

It wasn't just one of the best serialized TV series ever. It invented non-soap-opera serialized TV, especially with a preset story that had a beginning, middle, and ending, all laid out before the pilot was filmed. It was technology very advanced for its time in production (episodes filmed in widescreen anticipating HDTV, and with surround sound, as well as being the first to be fully CGI in its effects, using Video Toasters and LightWave 3D), yet always came in on time and under budget.

And let's not forget the awesome musical score.

Oh, and khitsicker, were you on GEnie and its SFRT back in the day? Just curious.


One of the things I really appreciated in B5 was how JMS wrote trapdoors in for all the main characters. So even if there were cast changes that were unexpected, the story still felt like it was all planned in advance and foreshadowed properly.
 
2022-01-28 9:00:00 PM  

Telephone Sanitizer Second Class: I've never watched it either. Will I understand it if I haven't watched DS1-8 first?


You're fine as long as you watch Innerspace before you get into any Deep Space
 
2022-01-28 9:07:29 PM  

CptnSpldng: Totally unrelated to your fandom, but last night I became involved in a discussion regarding books with a young dreadlocked man and I recommended the works of Sir Terry Pratchett. He responded that he was not a fan of fiction. I responded that the author dealt in the human condition, by way of fantastical fiction but if his books left you cold, at least you made the attempt.

This morning I dropped off the paperback of Men At Arms for him to peruse.
This evening he responded that he was engrossed. That is all I could wish.

Our local library has a full collection in both print And audio of Sir PTerry. The young man is now on his own and he need not spend money.


That's an interesting side note. Which Discworld book do you give someone first.

City Watch has always been my favorite so I approve of your choice
 
2022-01-28 9:20:05 PM  

COMALite J: NeoCortex42: khitsicker: Babylon 5 was better.

/ducks and runs

Seasons 2−4 of B5 is easily some of the best serialized sci-fi on TV. Season 1 is a chore, though. The last season is a bit of a mess, too.

I'm curious how a reboot will go. It will be next to impossible to improve on some if that original cast.
A reboot is in the works according to JMS hisownself. It'll be a reimagining, not a straight redo. Reading between the lines, I think he's not going to have the same characters for the most part, so we won't be worried that so-and-so actor won't be able to pull off such-and-such character to the standards set by so-and-so former actor who's passed Beyond the Rim.

Season 5 was messed up because the network it was airing on itself ended with Season 4, and there seemed to be no way to continue it, so JMS crammed much of the story originally intended for Season 5 into the last few episodes of Season 4. But then TNT came to the rescue and there was a Season 5 after all, but much of its intended story had already been told, so JMS had to come up with filler.

Season 1 has some important worldbuilding, and some really good episodes. Don't skip it.

It wasn't just one of the best serialized TV series ever. It invented non-soap-opera serialized TV, especially with a preset story that had a beginning, middle, and ending, all laid out before the pilot was filmed. It was technology very advanced for its time in production (episodes filmed in widescreen anticipating HDTV, and with surround sound, as well as being the first to be fully CGI in its effects, using Video Toasters and LightWave 3D), yet always came in on time and under budget.

And let's not forget the awesome musical score.

Oh, and khitsicker, were you on GEnie and its SFRT back in the day? Just curious.


Gona have to refresh my memory on what those are exactly.

The B5 reboot will be disastrous if they are going for anything other than just redoing the cgi and adding in cut footage to make season 4/5 better.
 
2022-01-28 9:27:19 PM  

Gubbo: CptnSpldng: Totally unrelated to your fandom, but last night I became involved in a discussion regarding books with a young dreadlocked man and I recommended the works of Sir Terry Pratchett. He responded that he was not a fan of fiction. I responded that the author dealt in the human condition, by way of fantastical fiction but if his books left you cold, at least you made the attempt.

This morning I dropped off the paperback of Men At Arms for him to peruse.
This evening he responded that he was engrossed. That is all I could wish.

Our local library has a full collection in both print And audio of Sir PTerry. The young man is now on his own and he need not spend money.

That's an interesting side note. Which Discworld book do you give someone first.

City Watch has always been my favorite so I approve of your choice


I would recommend the same path that I took. Men At Arms & Small Gods. After that, I was all over the place but as regards my favorites, it would be Witches Abroad, Lords and Ladies, Night Watch and the Tiffany Aching series, especially the first book.
I particularly enjoy trying to wrap my mind around Pratchett's version of the Quin versus Jim Butcher's version of Mab and Titania at the same time.
 
TWX
2022-01-28 9:31:43 PM  
I would recommend watching the week-by-week ST:TNG and ST:DS9 episodes in tandem for the duration that both shows were contemporaneous.
 
2022-01-28 9:34:52 PM  

CptnSpldng: Gubbo: CptnSpldng: Totally unrelated to your fandom, but last night I became involved in a discussion regarding books with a young dreadlocked man and I recommended the works of Sir Terry Pratchett. He responded that he was not a fan of fiction. I responded that the author dealt in the human condition, by way of fantastical fiction but if his books left you cold, at least you made the attempt.

This morning I dropped off the paperback of Men At Arms for him to peruse.
This evening he responded that he was engrossed. That is all I could wish.

Our local library has a full collection in both print And audio of Sir PTerry. The young man is now on his own and he need not spend money.

That's an interesting side note. Which Discworld book do you give someone first.

City Watch has always been my favorite so I approve of your choice

I would recommend the same path that I took. Men At Arms & Small Gods. After that, I was all over the place but as regards my favorites, it would be Witches Abroad, Lords and Ladies, Night Watch and the Tiffany Aching series, especially the first book.
I particularly enjoy trying to wrap my mind around Pratchett's version of the Quin versus Jim Butcher's version of Mab and Titania at the same time.


I've just never gotten into Witches and Tiffany series.

City Watch. Then stand alone like small gods and pyramids. Then Moist von Lipwig
 
2022-01-28 9:37:21 PM  
If you start with the first three episodes, it ruins the surprise in episode five, when you find out that Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father.
 
2022-01-28 9:37:54 PM  

TWX: I would recommend watching the week-by-week ST:TNG and ST:DS9 episodes in tandem for the duration that both shows were contemporaneous.


There's no reason to.  There's almost zero crossover between the two series, and nothing that matters week-to-week.

Watching SG1/Atlantis, though, is a whole different story.  That really requires watching the overlap in the proper order.
 
2022-01-28 9:40:37 PM  

Gubbo: CptnSpldng: Gubbo: CptnSpldng: Totally unrelated to your fandom, but last night I became involved in a discussion regarding books with a young dreadlocked man and I recommended the works of Sir Terry Pratchett. He responded that he was not a fan of fiction. I responded that the author dealt in the human condition, by way of fantastical fiction but if his books left you cold, at least you made the attempt.

This morning I dropped off the paperback of Men At Arms for him to peruse.
This evening he responded that he was engrossed. That is all I could wish.

Our local library has a full collection in both print And audio of Sir PTerry. The young man is now on his own and he need not spend money.

That's an interesting side note. Which Discworld book do you give someone first.

City Watch has always been my favorite so I approve of your choice

I would recommend the same path that I took. Men At Arms & Small Gods. After that, I was all over the place but as regards my favorites, it would be Witches Abroad, Lords and Ladies, Night Watch and the Tiffany Aching series, especially the first book.
I particularly enjoy trying to wrap my mind around Pratchett's version of the Quin versus Jim Butcher's version of Mab and Titania at the same time.

I've just never gotten into Witches and Tiffany series.

City Watch. Then stand alone like small gods and pyramids. Then Moist von Lipwig


It's all personal taste, really.  The Witches are my favorite characters personally, and Tiffany rolls a close second along with them.  Mind you, there's very little difference between the rankings, it's a marginal preference at best - I found it all very much worth reading and re-reading
 
2022-01-28 9:43:09 PM  

Gubbo: CptnSpldng: Gubbo: CptnSpldng: Totally unrelated to your fandom, but last night I became involved in a discussion regarding books with a young dreadlocked man and I recommended the works of Sir Terry Pratchett. He responded that he was not a fan of fiction. I responded that the author dealt in the human condition, by way of fantastical fiction but if his books left you cold, at least you made the attempt.

This morning I dropped off the paperback of Men At Arms for him to peruse.
This evening he responded that he was engrossed. That is all I could wish.

Our local library has a full collection in both print And audio of Sir PTerry. The young man is now on his own and he need not spend money.

That's an interesting side note. Which Discworld book do you give someone first.

City Watch has always been my favorite so I approve of your choice

I would recommend the same path that I took. Men At Arms & Small Gods. After that, I was all over the place but as regards my favorites, it would be Witches Abroad, Lords and Ladies, Night Watch and the Tiffany Aching series, especially the first book.
I particularly enjoy trying to wrap my mind around Pratchett's version of the Quin versus Jim Butcher's version of Mab and Titania at the same time.

I've just never gotten into Witches and Tiffany series.

City Watch. Then stand alone like small gods and pyramids. Then Moist von Lipwig


The Moist series is excellent. Inasmuch as I am also a Dresden Files fan, I am always interested in both magic (more witches than wizzards) and the Fae. As far as Pratchett is concerned, I've outlived the author. As far as Dresden is concerned, the series may outlive me (71+). It's A good ride.
 
2022-01-28 9:45:16 PM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Gubbo: CptnSpldng: Gubbo: CptnSpldng: Totally unrelated to your fandom, but last night I became involved in a discussion regarding books with a young dreadlocked man and I recommended the works of Sir Terry Pratchett. He responded that he was not a fan of fiction. I responded that the author dealt in the human condition, by way of fantastical fiction but if his books left you cold, at least you made the attempt.

This morning I dropped off the paperback of Men At Arms for him to peruse.
This evening he responded that he was engrossed. That is all I could wish.

Our local library has a full collection in both print And audio of Sir PTerry. The young man is now on his own and he need not spend money.

That's an interesting side note. Which Discworld book do you give someone first.

City Watch has always been my favorite so I approve of your choice

I would recommend the same path that I took. Men At Arms & Small Gods. After that, I was all over the place but as regards my favorites, it would be Witches Abroad, Lords and Ladies, Night Watch and the Tiffany Aching series, especially the first book.
I particularly enjoy trying to wrap my mind around Pratchett's version of the Quin versus Jim Butcher's version of Mab and Titania at the same time.

I've just never gotten into Witches and Tiffany series.

City Watch. Then stand alone like small gods and pyramids. Then Moist von Lipwig

It's all personal taste, really.  The Witches are my favorite characters personally, and Tiffany rolls a close second along with them.  Mind you, there's very little difference between the rankings, it's a marginal preference at best - I found it all very much worth reading and re-reading


Vimes is just one of the greatest characters ever.

A man with his demons to overcome, both metaphorical and actual. A man from nothing who's rich beyond belief and still wants to be a man with nothing. But who won't hesitate to take advantage of his wealth when it suits.

But above all else, a man who is deeply distrustful of everyone, but knows that he's stronger with dwarves and trolls and Igors and everyone else.

I dunno. I worship at the altar of Sam Vimes
 
2022-01-28 9:54:47 PM  
Deep Space 9 Move Along Home dance
Youtube 0FM6Xfs2ZoY


Start with this scene.
 
2022-01-28 9:56:09 PM  

Gubbo: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Gubbo: CptnSpldng: Gubbo: CptnSpldng: Totally unrelated to your fandom, but last night I became involved in a discussion regarding books with a young dreadlocked man and I recommended the works of Sir Terry Pratchett. He responded that he was not a fan of fiction. I responded that the author dealt in the human condition, by way of fantastical fiction but if his books left you cold, at least you made the attempt.

This morning I dropped off the paperback of Men At Arms for him to peruse.
This evening he responded that he was engrossed. That is all I could wish.

Our local library has a full collection in both print And audio of Sir PTerry. The young man is now on his own and he need not spend money.

That's an interesting side note. Which Discworld book do you give someone first.

City Watch has always been my favorite so I approve of your choice

I would recommend the same path that I took. Men At Arms & Small Gods. After that, I was all over the place but as regards my favorites, it would be Witches Abroad, Lords and Ladies, Night Watch and the Tiffany Aching series, especially the first book.
I particularly enjoy trying to wrap my mind around Pratchett's version of the Quin versus Jim Butcher's version of Mab and Titania at the same time.

I've just never gotten into Witches and Tiffany series.

City Watch. Then stand alone like small gods and pyramids. Then Moist von Lipwig

It's all personal taste, really.  The Witches are my favorite characters personally, and Tiffany rolls a close second along with them.  Mind you, there's very little difference between the rankings, it's a marginal preference at best - I found it all very much worth reading and re-reading

Vimes is just one of the greatest characters ever.

A man with his demons to overcome, both metaphorical and actual. A man from nothing who's rich beyond belief and still wants to be a man with nothing. But who won't hesitate to take advantage of his wealth when it suits.

But above all else, a man who is deeply distrustful of everyone, but knows that he's stronger with dwarves and trolls and Igors and everyone else.

I dunno. I worship at the altar of Sam Vimes


Ok. We're now hijacking a thread and turning it into a Pratchett thread.
So sue me. Nobody can post to this after tomorrow anyway.
Let us briefly worship at the altar of a truly talented author and raise a glass of special sheep linament, or if you prefer, a measure of scumble.
It's made with apples.
Mostly.
 
2022-01-28 10:04:28 PM  

CptnSpldng: Gubbo: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Gubbo: CptnSpldng: Gubbo: CptnSpldng: Totally unrelated to your fandom, but last night I became involved in a discussion regarding books with a young dreadlocked man and I recommended the works of Sir Terry Pratchett. He responded that he was not a fan of fiction. I responded that the author dealt in the human condition, by way of fantastical fiction but if his books left you cold, at least you made the attempt.

This morning I dropped off the paperback of Men At Arms for him to peruse.
This evening he responded that he was engrossed. That is all I could wish.

Our local library has a full collection in both print And audio of Sir PTerry. The young man is now on his own and he need not spend money.

That's an interesting side note. Which Discworld book do you give someone first.

City Watch has always been my favorite so I approve of your choice

I would recommend the same path that I took. Men At Arms & Small Gods. After that, I was all over the place but as regards my favorites, it would be Witches Abroad, Lords and Ladies, Night Watch and the Tiffany Aching series, especially the first book.
I particularly enjoy trying to wrap my mind around Pratchett's version of the Quin versus Jim Butcher's version of Mab and Titania at the same time.

I've just never gotten into Witches and Tiffany series.

City Watch. Then stand alone like small gods and pyramids. Then Moist von Lipwig

It's all personal taste, really.  The Witches are my favorite characters personally, and Tiffany rolls a close second along with them.  Mind you, there's very little difference between the rankings, it's a marginal preference at best - I found it all very much worth reading and re-reading

Vimes is just one of the greatest characters ever.

A man with his demons to overcome, both metaphorical and actual. A man from nothing who's rich beyond belief and still wants to be a man with nothing. But who won't hesitate to take advantage of his wealth when it suits.

But above all else, a man who is deeply distrustful of everyone, but knows that he's stronger with dwarves and trolls and Igors and everyone else.

I dunno. I worship at the altar of Sam Vimes

Ok. We're now hijacking a thread and turning it into a Pratchett thread.
So sue me. Nobody can post to this after tomorrow anyway.
Let us briefly worship at the altar of a truly talented author and raise a glass of special sheep linament, or if you prefer, a measure of scumble.
It's made with apples.
Mostly.


To the memory of Sir Pterry.

He'll live forever through his work
 
2022-01-28 10:05:40 PM  

CptnSpldng: Gubbo: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Gubbo: CptnSpldng: Gubbo: CptnSpldng: Totally unrelated to your fandom, but last night I became involved in a discussion regarding books with a young dreadlocked man and I recommended the works of Sir Terry Pratchett. He responded that he was not a fan of fiction. I responded that the author dealt in the human condition, by way of fantastical fiction but if his books left you cold, at least you made the attempt.

This morning I dropped off the paperback of Men At Arms for him to peruse.
This evening he responded that he was engrossed. That is all I could wish.

Our local library has a full collection in both print And audio of Sir PTerry. The young man is now on his own and he need not spend money.

That's an interesting side note. Which Discworld book do you give someone first.

City Watch has always been my favorite so I approve of your choice

I would recommend the same path that I took. Men At Arms & Small Gods. After that, I was all over the place but as regards my favorites, it would be Witches Abroad, Lords and Ladies, Night Watch and the Tiffany Aching series, especially the first book.
I particularly enjoy trying to wrap my mind around Pratchett's version of the Quin versus Jim Butcher's version of Mab and Titania at the same time.

I've just never gotten into Witches and Tiffany series.

City Watch. Then stand alone like small gods and pyramids. Then Moist von Lipwig

It's all personal taste, really.  The Witches are my favorite characters personally, and Tiffany rolls a close second along with them.  Mind you, there's very little difference between the rankings, it's a marginal preference at best - I found it all very much worth reading and re-reading

Vimes is just one of the greatest characters ever.

A man with his demons to overcome, both metaphorical and actual. A man from nothing who's rich beyond belief and still wants to be a man with nothing. But who won't hesitate to take advantage of his wealth when it suits.

But ...


I started with The Color of Magic myself and thought it was great. Then I just bought whatever was in print and available at the store.  I should probably do a more deliberate reading one of these days.
 
2022-01-28 10:07:42 PM  
Going back to the original posting, I wouldn't show In The Pale Moonlight until at least 2-3 seasons of the show before the viewer has a proper sense of Sisko's character.
 
2022-01-28 10:12:52 PM  

Sabreace22: puffy999: I haven't seen the entire series, just bits and pieces.

Are there any middle/later "plug and play" episodes which might work here? Eps which can draw you in to the characters and series but can stand on their own as an episode (without needing a lot of backstory)? Not necessarily the best episode of the series.

Example: Cause and Effect from TNG


/not subby
//if this question were about TNG I'd say skip most of the first season, and the second

[YouTube video: DS9 1x19 'Duet' Trailer (30s)]
First season, good world building without too much mysticism of pahs and wormhole aliens, prophets, etc.


Came here to suggest the same episode.

Happy to see you beat me to it.

Of all the episodes of TNG, DS9, Voyager, or even the unfairly reviled Enterprise, that one is my favorite, hands down, and one of the very few that gets me a little emotional.
 
2022-01-28 10:13:43 PM  

CptnSpldng: Going back to the original posting, I wouldn't show In The Pale Moonlight until at least 2-3 seasons of the show before the viewer has a proper sense of Sisko's character.


Exactly. A character crossing a line doesn't mean much if you don't know where his line usually is.
 
2022-01-28 10:26:33 PM  

steve_wmn: CptnSpldng: Gubbo: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Gubbo: CptnSpldng: Gubbo: CptnSpldng: Totally unrelated to your fandom, but last night I became involved in a discussion regarding books with a young dreadlocked man and I recommended the works of Sir Terry Pratchett. He responded that he was not a fan of fiction. I responded that the author dealt in the human condition, by way of fantastical fiction but if his books left you cold, at least you made the attempt.

This morning I dropped off the paperback of Men At Arms for him to peruse.
This evening he responded that he was engrossed. That is all I could wish.

Our local library has a full collection in both print And audio of Sir PTerry. The young man is now on his own and he need not spend money.

That's an interesting side note. Which Discworld book do you give someone first.

City Watch has always been my favorite so I approve of your choice

I would recommend the same path that I took. Men At Arms & Small Gods. After that, I was all over the place but as regards my favorites, it would be Witches Abroad, Lords and Ladies, Night Watch and the Tiffany Aching series, especially the first book.
I particularly enjoy trying to wrap my mind around Pratchett's version of the Quin versus Jim Butcher's version of Mab and Titania at the same time.

I've just never gotten into Witches and Tiffany series.

City Watch. Then stand alone like small gods and pyramids. Then Moist von Lipwig

It's all personal taste, really.  The Witches are my favorite characters personally, and Tiffany rolls a close second along with them.  Mind you, there's very little difference between the rankings, it's a marginal preference at best - I found it all very much worth reading and re-reading

Vimes is just one of the greatest characters ever.

A man with his demons to overcome, both metaphorical and actual. A man from nothing who's rich beyond belief and still wants to be a man with nothing. But who won't hesitate to take advantage of his wealth when it suits.

But ...

I started with The Color of Magic myself and thought it was great. Then I just bought whatever was in print and available at the store.  I should probably do a more deliberate reading one of these days.


If you are capable of comprehending context and are attuned to other (at least English) language references, it doesn't matter where you start. You'll get an author starting out and trying out his voice
You'll get an author who has much to say and can't remember shiat
Or you'll get an author who can easily rip the heart out of your chest, show the pulsating organ to you, and then ask why you couldn't be a better human being
You pays your nickle; you takes your chances.

/It's possible that I consider Sir Terry one of the past century's greatest authors. But that's just me.
 
2022-01-28 10:33:11 PM  

NeoCortex42: CptnSpldng: Going back to the original posting, I wouldn't show In The Pale Moonlight until at least 2-3 seasons of the show before the viewer has a proper sense of Sisko's character.

Exactly. A character crossing a line doesn't mean much if you don't know where his line usually is.


Or, as my nephew observed in regard to drinking WAY too much, "You have to go past When before you learn where When is."
 
2022-01-28 10:46:16 PM  

steve_wmn: CptnSpldng: Gubbo: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: Gubbo: CptnSpldng: Gubbo: CptnSpldng: Totally unrelated to your fandom, but last night I became involved in a discussion regarding books with a young dreadlocked man and I recommended the works of Sir Terry Pratchett. He responded that he was not a fan of fiction. I responded that the author dealt in the human condition, by way of fantastical fiction but if his books left you cold, at least you made the attempt.

This morning I dropped off the paperback of Men At Arms for him to peruse.
This evening he responded that he was engrossed. That is all I could wish.

Our local library has a full collection in both print And audio of Sir PTerry. The young man is now on his own and he need not spend money.

That's an interesting side note. Which Discworld book do you give someone first.

City Watch has always been my favorite so I approve of your choice

I would recommend the same path that I took. Men At Arms & Small Gods. After that, I was all over the place but as regards my favorites, it would be Witches Abroad, Lords and Ladies, Night Watch and the Tiffany Aching series, especially the first book.
I particularly enjoy trying to wrap my mind around Pratchett's version of the Quin versus Jim Butcher's version of Mab and Titania at the same time.

I've just never gotten into Witches and Tiffany series.

City Watch. Then stand alone like small gods and pyramids. Then Moist von Lipwig

It's all personal taste, really.  The Witches are my favorite characters personally, and Tiffany rolls a close second along with them.  Mind you, there's very little difference between the rankings, it's a marginal preference at best - I found it all very much worth reading and re-reading

Vimes is just one of the greatest characters ever.

A man with his demons to overcome, both metaphorical and actual. A man from nothing who's rich beyond belief and still wants to be a man with nothing. But who won't hesitate to take advantage of his wealth when it suits.

But ...

I started with The Color of Magic myself and thought it was great. Then I just bought whatever was in print and available at the store.  I should probably do a more deliberate reading one of these days.


If nothing else you may discover more books worth reading.
 
2022-01-28 11:18:41 PM  

Gubbo: Vimes is just one of the greatest characters ever.

A man with his demons to overcome, both metaphorical and actual. A man from nothing who's rich beyond belief and still wants to be a man with nothing. But who won't hesitate to take advantage of his wealth when it suits.

But above all else, a man who is deeply distrustful of everyone, but knows that he's stronger with dwarves and trolls and Igors and everyone else.

I dunno. I worship at the altar of Sam Vimes


Plenty of room for everybody when it comes to Pratchett fans - it's all worthy of respect.  Read how ya like
 
2022-01-29 12:00:28 AM  

NeoCortex42: COMALite J: NeoCortex42: khitsicker: Babylon 5 was better.

/ducks and runs

Seasons 2−4 of B5 is easily some of the best serialized sci-fi on TV. Season 1 is a chore, though. The last season is a bit of a mess, too.

I'm curious how a reboot will go. It will be next to impossible to improve on some if that original cast.
A reboot is in the works according to JMS hisownself. It'll be a reimagining, not a straight redo. Reading between the lines, I think he's not going to have the same characters for the most part, so we won't be worried that so-and-so actor won't be able to pull off such-and-such character to the standards set by so-and-so former actor who's passed Beyond the Rim.

Season 5 was messed up because the network it was airing on itself ended with Season 4, and there seemed to be no way to continue it, so JMS crammed much of the story originally intended for Season 5 into the last few episodes of Season 4. But then TNT came to the rescue and there was a Season 5 after all, but much of its intended story had already been told, so JMS had to come up with filler.

Season 1 has some important worldbuilding, and some really good episodes. Don't skip it.

It wasn't just one of the best serialized TV series ever. It invented non-soap-opera serialized TV, especially with a preset story that had a beginning, middle, and ending, all laid out before the pilot was filmed. It was technology very advanced for its time in production (episodes filmed in widescreen anticipating HDTV, and with surround sound, as well as being the first to be fully CGI in its effects, using Video Toasters and LightWave 3D), yet always came in on time and under budget.

And let's not forget the awesome musical score.

Oh, and khitsicker, were you on GEnie and its SFRT back in the day? Just curious.

One of the things I really appreciated in B5 was how JMS wrote trapdoors in for all the main characters. So even if there were cast changes that were unexpected, the story still felt like it was ...


In the mid 2000's (the aughts!) I watched the entire run of Babylon 5, beginning to end, an episode or two each day. Did the same thing a few years later with Deep Space 9. And with both, I really paid attention.

For whatever reason, I cannot for the life of me remember anything at all about Deep Space 9. Don't remember any of the stories, the war, nothing. All I remember are some of the characters but I can't really remember what they did or of what importance they were. The show just did not stick with me in any way.

Babylon 5 on the other hand, I remember almost everything about it. The love story between Sheridan and De'lenn is one of the most touching I've ever watched. The ancient war between the Shadows and the Vorlons and the layers and layers of who they really are and the reveal of the First Ones was so rewarding to see unfold. The plot twists, the depth of the characters, all just so incredible.

Not trying to imply that DS9 is inferior or worthless, just that it didn't impact me like B5 did. And yes, B5 had some really shiatty episodes (that stupid boxing one in season 1 is just wtf?). Just my experience with it is all.
 
2022-01-29 12:25:42 AM  

Moose out front: And yes, B5 had some really shiatty episodes (that stupid boxing one in season 1 is just wtf?)


But the Ivanova sub-plot story here is really important... So I watch this episode when I re-watch the series. Probably will be due for another binge-through sometime in a year or three. Last time I did it was 2019.
 
2022-01-29 12:37:33 AM  

CptnSpldng: NeoCortex42: CptnSpldng: Going back to the original posting, I wouldn't show In The Pale Moonlight until at least 2-3 seasons of the show before the viewer has a proper sense of Sisko's character.

Exactly. A character crossing a line doesn't mean much if you don't know where his line usually is.

Or, as my nephew observed in regard to drinking WAY too much, "You have to go past When before you learn where When is."


Nothing gets past me...

Fark user imageView Full Size


...my child.
 
2022-01-29 2:30:28 AM  

puffy999: I haven't seen the entire series, just bits and pieces.

Are there any middle/later "plug and play" episodes which might work here? Eps which can draw you in to the characters and series but can stand on their own as an episode (without needing a lot of backstory)? Not necessarily the best episode of the series.

Example: Cause and Effect from TNG


/not subby
//if this question were about TNG I'd say skip most of the first season, and the second


The Magnificent Ferengi. Maybe the one in which Rom, Quark, and Nog end up in Area 51 in the 1940s.
 
2022-01-29 2:34:00 AM  

puffy999: I haven't seen the entire series, just bits and pieces.

Are there any middle/later "plug and play" episodes which might work here? Eps which can draw you in to the characters and series but can stand on their own as an episode (without needing a lot of backstory)? Not necessarily the best episode of the series.

Example: Cause and Effect from TNG


/not subby
//if this question were about TNG I'd say skip most of the first season, and the second


The one in which they merge scenes with The Trouble with Tribbles, too.
 
2022-01-29 2:41:15 AM  
I wouldn't recommend skipping anything. The journey before the big episodes is what gives the big episodes their punch.

Nog's arc specifically springs to mind. Sisko being a pillar of morality for 142 episodes only to compromise his morals for victory is another.
 
2022-01-29 2:46:59 AM  
Meh, I would just do them in original order and if they don't like it after three, cut 'em loose. I do think the show has a different effect if you binge watch it rather than waiting a week between viewings and indeed it picked up a bigger audience when it went to daily re-run syndication.
 
2022-01-29 4:17:06 AM  

khitsicker: (Me): Oh, and khitsicker, were you on GEnie and its SFRT back in the day? Just curious.

Gona have to refresh my memory on what those are exactly.

The B5 reboot will be disastrous if they are going for anything other than just redoing the cgi and adding in cut footage to make season 4/5 better.

If you were, you'd remember. GEnie was a dial-up online service in the 1990s, predating the popularity of the Internet (there was UseNet and such back then, but services such as GEnie and CompuServ and AOL were separate from the Internet). It was divided into "RoundTables" (RTs) on a variety of subjects. The SFRT was the Science Fiction (and Fantasy) RoundTable. A number of SF and Fantasy (and comics, until the Comics RT spun off from it [I was "COMICS-ASST" as my official username as an Assistant SysOp in that, but my nickname was what I use here ― I've kept it all this time hoping to run into people from the old days who still remember]) pros were active there.

JMS was one of them, and announced the series there before he was even allowed to reveal its name. I wound up having a bit of input into the series. There's a reason the station coordinates were where they were.

NeoCortex42: One of the things I really appreciated in B5 was how JMS wrote trapdoors in for all the main characters. So even if there were cast changes that were unexpected, the story still felt like it was all planned in advance and foreshadowed properly.

Yep. He knows his craft. Though one wonders what he had in store for Sinclair originally.
 
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