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(US News)   Over 500 home owners in Arizona about to learn what living in an arid zone means   (usnews.com) divider line
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7775 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jan 2022 at 7:20 PM (22 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-01-28 4:36:59 PM  
s26162.pcdn.coView Full Size
 
2022-01-28 4:45:29 PM  
Sounds like the invisible hand of the free market working to me.

"Arizona law allows for dry lots, which lets you build a house that doesn't have access to water," a Maricopa County Board of Supervisors representative said.

It fixes everything right?
 
2022-01-28 5:27:33 PM  
If you don't know about this, your real estate attorney sucks.
 
2022-01-28 5:35:05 PM  
Who is John Galt?
 
2022-01-28 6:28:07 PM  
Nothing some Dune cosplay can't fix.

Maybe they will be mosisture farmers?
 
2022-01-28 6:41:33 PM  
Marty Robbins - Cool Water
Youtube t9JQkxu_ofE
 
2022-01-28 6:48:29 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-28 7:22:22 PM  
Right. Ban new housing in arizona and nevada because thats literally the only way you will ever stop people from building in the middle of a sandpit
 
2022-01-28 7:24:17 PM  
cvs.comView Full Size
 
2022-01-28 7:25:33 PM  
"Haha why would anyone live in California? One of the country's most temperate states keeps losing their silly little minds about water conservation. They can just move to a cheaper state, where we don't care about no stinkin' commie water boards."
 
2022-01-28 7:29:01 PM  

lifeslammer: Right. Ban new housing in arizona and nevada because thats literally the only way you will ever stop people from building in the middle of a sandpit


but but muh freedumbs!
 
2022-01-28 7:33:18 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-28 7:35:46 PM  

aleister_greynight: Sounds like the invisible hand of the free market working to me.

"Arizona law allows for dry lots, which lets you build a house that doesn't have access to water," a Maricopa County Board of Supervisors representative said.

It fixes everything right?


Like all things water in the west, it's more complicated than that. These were "wildcat" developments. They were subdivided from a parcel below the limit that requires proof of a 100-year water supply that most developments are required to have. The people who built the houses knew it. The people who sold the houses knew it, and I guarantee you that it was stated in the documents that the people buying the houses signed at closing.

Most thought they'd just keep kicking the can diem the road. Well, the road ended and they're in a real pickle. They bought million dollar homes but didn't pay an attorney to make sure they weren't hosed (heh). Another example of "Whiskey's for drinking, water's for fighting."

That said, it is farking beautiful up there. You just have to dig a really, really deep well and hope the water's not sour. Or be prepared to pay to have a private company haul in your water. Those are both spendy propositions.
 
2022-01-28 7:36:16 PM  
Perhaps they should get some moisture vaporators....
 
2022-01-28 7:38:46 PM  

PhoenixFarker: aleister_greynight: Sounds like the invisible hand of the free market working to me.

"Arizona law allows for dry lots, which lets you build a house that doesn't have access to water," a Maricopa County Board of Supervisors representative said.

It fixes everything right?

Like all things water in the west, it's more complicated than that. These were "wildcat" developments. They were subdivided from a parcel below the limit that requires proof of a 100-year water supply that most developments are required to have. The people who built the houses knew it. The people who sold the houses knew it, and I guarantee you that it was stated in the documents that the people buying the houses signed at closing.

Most thought they'd just keep kicking the can diem the road. Well, the road ended and they're in a real pickle. They bought million dollar homes but didn't pay an attorney to make sure they weren't hosed (heh). Another example of "Whiskey's for drinking, water's for fighting."

That said, it is farking beautiful up there. You just have to dig a really, really deep well and hope the water's not sour. Or be prepared to pay to have a private company haul in your water. Those are both spendy propositions.


The soil has really poor transmissivity, meaning it is reeeeeaaaallly hard to pump up there. And there may not be enough water to even attempt it.
 
2022-01-28 7:39:28 PM  

PhoenixFarker: aleister_greynight: Sounds like the invisible hand of the free market working to me.

"Arizona law allows for dry lots, which lets you build a house that doesn't have access to water," a Maricopa County Board of Supervisors representative said.

It fixes everything right?

Like all things water in the west, it's more complicated than that. These were "wildcat" developments. They were subdivided from a parcel below the limit that requires proof of a 100-year water supply that most developments are required to have. The people who built the houses knew it. The people who sold the houses knew it, and I guarantee you that it was stated in the documents that the people buying the houses signed at closing.

Most thought they'd just keep kicking the can diem the road. Well, the road ended and they're in a real pickle. They bought million dollar homes but didn't pay an attorney to make sure they weren't hosed (heh). Another example of "Whiskey's for drinking, water's for fighting."

That said, it is farking beautiful up there. You just have to dig a really, really deep well and hope the water's not sour. Or be prepared to pay to have a private company haul in your water. Those are both spendy propositions.


Phoenix is a monument to humanity's hubris.
 
2022-01-28 7:40:32 PM  
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size
 
2022-01-28 7:43:22 PM  
I pay taxes!!!
 
2022-01-28 7:44:49 PM  
Wait, are you telling me that real estate developers can be less than honest people?  They're usually such paragons of virtue!!
 
2022-01-28 7:45:31 PM  

SwiftFox: I pay taxes!!!


I am astonished at how much noise they make while trying hard to not pay taxes.
 
2022-01-28 7:45:57 PM  
Take advantage of the current situation to buy up a sliver of land on the cheap just in case the arctic ice shelf collapse creates a situation where water is plentiful everywhere and you really want to avoid what used to be coastal areas.

/one day people might laugh about trailers being considered recreational vehicles
 
2022-01-28 7:48:39 PM  
I think these folks are in for a bad time:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-28 7:49:24 PM  

iheartscotch: Perhaps they should get some moisture vaporators....


Who speaks Binary nowadays?
 
2022-01-28 7:50:52 PM  

iheartscotch: Perhaps they should get some moisture vaporators....


You need a protocol droid fluent in Bocci to talk to them.
 
2022-01-28 7:55:16 PM  
Water rights discussion.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-28 7:59:13 PM  

lifeslammer: Right. Ban new housing in arizona and nevada because thats literally the only way you will ever stop people from building in the middle of a sandpit


I wouldn't live anywhere that I couldn't waste water without feeling guilty about it.
 
2022-01-28 7:59:29 PM  
Maybe it's time to stop allowing farmers to grow corn and cotton in Arizona
 
2022-01-28 8:01:44 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-28 8:02:18 PM  

TheHighlandHowler: If you don't know about this, your real estate attorney sucks.


Aw, hell. In an arid environment, if you need a real estate attorney - or anyone else over the age of 12 - to tell you to verify where your water is coming from, you shouldn't be responsible for putting on clothes by yourself.

Protip: lots of places throughout the US Southwest that are now residential communities? Were originally subject to mining claims after the US Army (ahem) made the original inhabitants disappear. I'm not talking about Will Geer type gold-panning miners with a surly burro either, but multinational corporations like Freeport McMoRan who bought up water rights all over the place decades ago -- including the water rights for miles around where their actual mines are located. Mines use a lot of water, so in the beginning it sort of stood to reason they wanted a reliable water supply ---- until they started buying up the water rights for rivers & tributaries all over the place. Expect to see them asserting their plentiful water rights in the near future.
 
2022-01-28 8:05:22 PM  

Moose out front: Maybe it's time to stop allowing farmers to grow corn and cotton in Arizona


Better bring some damn big guns to take down Chiquita Brands International Inc. for starters.....And it's not farmers, its agribusiness.
 
2022-01-28 8:07:57 PM  

AlgaeRancher: Nothing some Dune cosplay can't fix.

Maybe they will be mosisture farmers?


It's doable, if the HOA isn't full of coonts.
 
2022-01-28 8:08:57 PM  
I live in an area that's not arid at all, but I still had the well and water availability inspected before I bought my house.

Because I'm not a farking moron.
 
2022-01-28 8:11:01 PM  
"Water hauling from Scottsdale has become such a necessity for RVF residents that around 500 homes in the area rely solely on water hauling services, said resident Karen Nabity, who co-runs a website detailing the community's water woes."

Heh.
 
2022-01-28 8:13:57 PM  
"We knew that the water was being hauled, but nobody said anything about that there's a limited supply."

Technically, there isn't. I'm sure that someone would be willing to haul water from, say, the Columbia River to your home if you pay them enough.
 
2022-01-28 8:17:07 PM  

common sense is an oxymoron: "We knew that the water was being hauled, but nobody said anything about that there's a limited supply."

Technically, there isn't. I'm sure that someone would be willing to haul water from, say, the Columbia River to your home if you pay them enough.


GET READY MARTHA!!!!!
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-28 8:18:35 PM  

common sense is an oxymoron: "We knew that the water was being hauled, but nobody said anything about that there's a limited supply."

Technically, there isn't. I'm sure that someone would be willing to haul water from, say, the Columbia River to your home if you pay them enough.


Makes me wonder if they can't find a loophole, like filling the tankers at some residence that has water piped to them and then delivering from there.
 
2022-01-28 8:18:42 PM  

Rancho Apocalypto: TheHighlandHowler: If you don't know about this, your real estate attorney sucks.

Aw, hell. In an arid environment, if you need a real estate attorney - or anyone else over the age of 12 - to tell you to verify where your water is coming from, you shouldn't be responsible for putting on clothes by yourself.

Protip: lots of places throughout the US Southwest that are now residential communities? Were originally subject to mining claims after the US Army (ahem) made the original inhabitants disappear. I'm not talking about Will Geer type gold-panning miners with a surly burro either, but multinational corporations like Freeport McMoRan who bought up water rights all over the place decades ago -- including the water rights for miles around where their actual mines are located. Mines use a lot of water, so in the beginning it sort of stood to reason they wanted a reliable water supply ---- until they started buying up the water rights for rivers & tributaries all over the place. Expect to see them asserting their plentiful water rights in the near future.


In Pennsylvania coal/oil companies bought up mineral rights many decades ago...the first commercial oil well in North America was drilled in Pennsylvania in 1859.  I know a Pennsylvania resident who was shocked to find out that the natural gas under his property wasn't his, and the amount offered to him by a fracking operator to set up a rig on his property wasn't much.  He honestly thought he was going to be paid full price for every cubic foot of NG they extracted.   In other news, people are stupid everywhere.
 
2022-01-28 8:21:12 PM  

leeksfromchichis: [encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 739x415]


At least that one is adapted to living in a desert.
 
2022-01-28 8:28:18 PM  

Nadie_AZ: PhoenixFarker: aleister_greynight: Sounds like the invisible hand of the free market working to me.

"Arizona law allows for dry lots, which lets you build a house that doesn't have access to water," a Maricopa County Board of Supervisors representative said.

It fixes everything right?

Like all things water in the west, it's more complicated than that. These were "wildcat" developments. They were subdivided from a parcel below the limit that requires proof of a 100-year water supply that most developments are required to have. The people who built the houses knew it. The people who sold the houses knew it, and I guarantee you that it was stated in the documents that the people buying the houses signed at closing.

Most thought they'd just keep kicking the can diem the road. Well, the road ended and they're in a real pickle. They bought million dollar homes but didn't pay an attorney to make sure they weren't hosed (heh). Another example of "Whiskey's for drinking, water's for fighting."

That said, it is farking beautiful up there. You just have to dig a really, really deep well and hope the water's not sour. Or be prepared to pay to have a private company haul in your water. Those are both spendy propositions.

The soil has really poor transmissivity, meaning it is reeeeeaaaallly hard to pump up there. And there may not be enough water to even attempt it.


When I lived outside of Midland, TX I watched wells go dry and people freak out. Our next door neighbor had to drill a second well to get enough flow between both heads to run the household, and he was smart and put in a 15,000 gallon tank in his backyard to fill "just in case". Smart for a lot of reasons, like having water when the power goes out. Often.

People 1/2 a mile away at the end of our street had to drill a 3rd well, and the house next door had no water and could not be sold. Meanwhile they had paved so many pastures in that neighborhood that our street flooded every time there was a hard rain and it got deeper every year and houses were repeatedly damaged but the wells barely topped off (our water got less salty, scary scary!) and the asshole developer just kept right on building houses on the street knowing full well (no pun) what was happening. Naturally we got out at a good time and all was ... okay, except for the air quality that never got better. Those biatchin summer haboobs had my lungs so damaged that my doctor called me a liar when I said I was a nonsmoker; I went back to Florida and 6 months later I was healed.

The ranch owners who have land and who also happen to be growing subsidized cotton and hay as well as steers have a 4th option and sell "their" groundwater to the local oil drillers for mud. They put in massive half acre ponds and fill them 4 feet deep with clean, fresh water and leave it out in the hot desert sun to evaporate and sell what they can to the oil companies for even more fat profit at the expense of their new neighbors.

Eastwrn New Mexico is about as bad with their nut tree farms. Arizona may not be selling to drillers but they haven't got water to spare and so it goes.
 
2022-01-28 8:38:40 PM  

Fissile: Rancho Apocalypto: TheHighlandHowler: If you don't know about this, your real estate attorney sucks.

Aw, hell. In an arid environment, if you need a real estate attorney - or anyone else over the age of 12 - to tell you to verify where your water is coming from, you shouldn't be responsible for putting on clothes by yourself.

Protip: lots of places throughout the US Southwest that are now residential communities? Were originally subject to mining claims after the US Army (ahem) made the original inhabitants disappear. I'm not talking about Will Geer type gold-panning miners with a surly burro either, but multinational corporations like Freeport McMoRan who bought up water rights all over the place decades ago -- including the water rights for miles around where their actual mines are located. Mines use a lot of water, so in the beginning it sort of stood to reason they wanted a reliable water supply ---- until they started buying up the water rights for rivers & tributaries all over the place. Expect to see them asserting their plentiful water rights in the near future.

In Pennsylvania coal/oil companies bought up mineral rights many decades ago...the first commercial oil well in North America was drilled in Pennsylvania in 1859.  I know a Pennsylvania resident who was shocked to find out that the natural gas under his property wasn't his, and the amount offered to him by a fracking operator to set up a rig on his property wasn't much.  He honestly thought he was going to be paid full price for every cubic foot of NG they extracted.   In other news, people are stupid everywhere.


Guy I knew was a brilliant, registered professional geologist but by just looking at him you would have thought he was as dumb as a post. Some oil and gas workers asked for permission to survey his land with the acoustic / sound wave trucks. Guy says sure, why not. Couple of weeks later the truck is moving around his property. Guy asked if he could see inside the truck. Oil guys figure what's the harm?
My guy asks if they found anything interesting while sitting at one of the consoles ......they sorta mumble some stuff about "not much down there, etc...."   He points to the scope data and asks  "What about these three gas fields and this oil?" The workers threw him out of the truck.  He gave them full rights to the land, but they had to hook up his house to an un-metered gas connection. Even the dog house had heat after this.
 
2022-01-28 8:46:10 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

"You see this? This is sand. You know what it's going to be in a hundred years? FARKING SAND!"
 
2022-01-28 8:47:54 PM  

UltimaCS: "Haha why would anyone live in California? One of the country's most temperate states keeps losing their silly little minds about water conservation. They can just move to a cheaper state, where we don't care about no stinkin' commie water boards."


i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2022-01-28 8:49:10 PM  
"In most of the United States, people expect water access as a given," the [Arizona Department of Water Resources] director [Tom Buschatzke] said. "We are very lucky in that regard because less than one percent of the world's population has clean, running water 24/7. We are spoiled in that regard."

Journalism is dead.

1% of the worlds population is about 79 million people. Or 1/4th of the US. Heck, per the CDC 45% of the world has access to safely managed drinking water AND sanitation. A safely managed water source is "improved water sources located on premises, available when needed, and free from contamination." I'd interpret available as needed as 24/7, but then, I'm not in charge of the Arizona Department of Water Resources.
 
2022-01-28 8:50:52 PM  

Karma Chameleon: UltimaCS: "Haha why would anyone live in California? One of the country's most temperate states keeps losing their silly little minds about water conservation. They can just move to a cheaper state, where we don't care about no stinkin' commie water boards."

[i.imgur.com image 400x247]


Move to Anaheim, CA. The German settlers secured the water rights all the way to the top of the San Gabriel Mountains.
 
2022-01-28 8:52:01 PM  

PhoenixFarker: aleister_greynight: Sounds like the invisible hand of the free market working to me.

"Arizona law allows for dry lots, which lets you build a house that doesn't have access to water," a Maricopa County Board of Supervisors representative said.

It fixes everything right?

Like all things water in the west, it's more complicated than that. These were "wildcat" developments. They were subdivided from a parcel below the limit that requires proof of a 100-year water supply that most developments are required to have. The people who built the houses knew it. The people who sold the houses knew it, and I guarantee you that it was stated in the documents that the people buying the houses signed at closing.

Most thought they'd just keep kicking the can diem the road. Well, the road ended and they're in a real pickle. They bought million dollar homes but didn't pay an attorney to make sure they weren't hosed (heh). Another example of "Whiskey's for drinking, water's for fighting."

That said, it is farking beautiful up there. You just have to dig a really, really deep well and hope the water's not sour. Or be prepared to pay to have a private company haul in your water. Those are both spendy propositions.


In this case, per the article (which I regret reading, because it's at least half un-checked, un-analyzed quotes) the county is stopping sales to the water haulers...
 
2022-01-28 9:03:14 PM  
Live in a desert?
No water?

/ My shocked face!
 
2022-01-28 9:14:07 PM  
Stop watering the desert. It doesn't need our interventions. Only the beginning. Know what happens to the land you own if there's no water source? Nothing, ever again. Ok maybe nuclear bomb tests or the like but other than that nothing.
 
2022-01-28 9:40:24 PM  

PhoenixFarker: Like all things water in the west, it's more complicated than that. These were "wildcat" developments. They were subdivided from a parcel below the limit that requires proof of a 100-year water supply that most developments are required to have. The people who built the houses knew it. The people who sold the houses knew it, and I guarantee you that it was stated in the documents that the people buying the houses signed at closing.


What indication do you have that it was in the documents?  It sounds like there is no required notification.  The developers certainly knew of the problem--that's why the subdivision.  Somehow I don't think they're still around to be sued, though.
 
2022-01-28 9:51:19 PM  

thespindrifter: Nadie_AZ: PhoenixFarker: aleister_greynight: Sounds like the invisible hand of the free market working to me.

"Arizona law allows for dry lots, which lets you build a house that doesn't have access to water," a Maricopa County Board of Supervisors representative said.

It fixes everything right?

Like all things water in the west, it's more complicated than that. These were "wildcat" developments. They were subdivided from a parcel below the limit that requires proof of a 100-year water supply that most developments are required to have. The people who built the houses knew it. The people who sold the houses knew it, and I guarantee you that it was stated in the documents that the people buying the houses signed at closing.

Most thought they'd just keep kicking the can diem the road. Well, the road ended and they're in a real pickle. They bought million dollar homes but didn't pay an attorney to make sure they weren't hosed (heh). Another example of "Whiskey's for drinking, water's for fighting."

That said, it is farking beautiful up there. You just have to dig a really, really deep well and hope the water's not sour. Or be prepared to pay to have a private company haul in your water. Those are both spendy propositions.

The soil has really poor transmissivity, meaning it is reeeeeaaaallly hard to pump up there. And there may not be enough water to even attempt it.

When I lived outside of Midland, TX I watched wells go dry and people freak out. Our next door neighbor had to drill a second well to get enough flow between both heads to run the household, and he was smart and put in a 15,000 gallon tank in his backyard to fill "just in case". Smart for a lot of reasons, like having water when the power goes out. Often.

People 1/2 a mile away at the end of our street had to drill a 3rd well, and the house next door had no water and could not be sold. Meanwhile they had paved so many pastures in that neighborhood that our street flooded every time there was a hard rain and it got deeper every year and houses were repeatedly damaged but the wells barely topped off (our water got less salty, scary scary!) and the asshole developer just kept right on building houses on the street knowing full well (no pun) what was happening. Naturally we got out at a good time and all was ... okay, except for the air quality that never got better. Those biatchin summer haboobs had my lungs so damaged that my doctor called me a liar when I said I was a nonsmoker; I went back to Florida and 6 months later I was healed.

The ranch owners who have land and who also happen to be growing subsidized cotton and hay as well as steers have a 4th option and sell "their" groundwater to the local oil drillers for mud. They put in massive half acre ponds and fill them 4 feet deep with clean, fresh water and leave it out in the hot desert sun to evaporate and sell what they can to the oil companies for even more fat profit at the expense of their new neighbors.

Eastwrn New Mexico is about as bad with their nut tree farms. Arizona may not be selling to drillers but they haven't got water to spare and so it goes.


Big Ag is doing this in unregulated areas.
 
2022-01-28 10:04:47 PM  
My private well was tested when it was drilled.  Water struck at 62 feet. Water filled the well ~30 feet above the strike point. Testing revealed it could provide 20 gallons per minute for an hour and drop the water column less than an inch.  How anyone can buy a house in a farking desert and not ask details about water is truly astounding to me.
 
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