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(Slate)   Americans are shiatty drivers, and Pete Buttigieg is sick and tired of it   (slate.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Road safety, Road transport, Road traffic safety, Global road safety for workers, Automobile safety, Traffic collision, Highway engineering, Road  
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3714 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 28 Jan 2022 at 10:50 AM (15 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-01-28 9:19:55 AM  
Bike lanes without some sort of wall between them and traffic are absurd. You're riding right next to speeding traffic. A biker hits a pebble or something and falls and he's dead. It's safer just to ride on the sidewalk. You can see a pedestrian coming a mile away, one of you can accommodate the other.

As for other traffic issues, people are morons. Be a defensive driver and drive like everyone is trying to kill you.
 
2022-01-28 9:50:08 AM  
I went for a drive in May or June of 2020 and the roads were completely empty except for a surprising number of people driving well over 100MPH on the highway. There was no enforcement here so they just went nuts. I am not at all surprised that fatalities were up.
 
2022-01-28 9:57:13 AM  
Traffic circle training/instruction.  We need it.  Badly.
 
2022-01-28 10:25:30 AM  
Prioritize automated driving. Cars don't get tired, drunk, or distracted.

Are they perfect yet? Hell no. Are they much safer than humans? Almost certainly.
 
2022-01-28 10:52:19 AM  
Let's see...CAFE standards "mandate" that vehicles must get xxx MPG.
So, they remove a lot of STEEL in vehicle, make "crumple zones", make them lighter and
when they do crash, injuries & deaths are UP.  But, he rides around in an armored vehicle,
or just jets across the globe in his private jet airplane.
 
2022-01-28 10:52:23 AM  
The trucks and SUVs are too damn big
 
2022-01-28 10:52:56 AM  
Drive the way you want your kids school bus driver to drive.
 
2022-01-28 10:54:04 AM  

flucto: I went for a drive in May or June of 2020 and the roads were completely empty except for a surprising number of people driving well over 100MPH on the highway. There was no enforcement here so they just went nuts. I am not at all surprised that fatalities were up.


Yeah a few people took advantage of the pandemic to hold their own cannonball runs.
 
2022-01-28 10:54:05 AM  

p51d007: Let's see...CAFE standards "mandate" that vehicles must get xxx MPG.
So, they remove a lot of STEEL in vehicle, make "crumple zones", make them lighter and
when they do crash, injuries & deaths are UP.  But, he rides around in an armored vehicle,
or just jets across the globe in his private jet airplane.


Worst Steve Miller Band cover, EVAR!
 
2022-01-28 10:55:13 AM  

Mugato: Bike lanes without some sort of wall between them and traffic are absurd. You're riding right next to speeding traffic. A biker hits a pebble or something and falls and he's dead. It's safer just to ride on the sidewalk. You can see a pedestrian coming a mile away, one of you can accommodate the other.

As for other traffic issues, people are morons. Be a defensive driver and drive like everyone is trying to kill you.



F*ck you. Sidewalks are for walking.
 
2022-01-28 10:55:23 AM  

nmrsnr: Prioritize automated driving. Cars don't get tired, drunk, or distracted.

Are they perfect yet? Hell no. Are they much safer than humans? Almost certainly.


I think a great feature would be an alarm that signals you being too close to the driver in front of you relative to the speed you're going.  A 'two second rule' that's hardwired into all new cars that can't be manually turned off. I've been commuting on the interstate for a couple of decades and it seems 99% of the time the accidents that slow traffic is someone ramming into the car in front of them because they followed too close and had no time to react to a sudden slowdown.
 
2022-01-28 10:56:33 AM  
Ftfa: "We go on the record about the concept of embracing zero as the only acceptable level of roadway deaths. And while it sounds like a symbolic choice, it can drive a lot of policies."

If the goal of zero roadway deaths was actually driving policy, the speed limit would be set around 4 mph. Cars would be mandated to be as safe as mraps. It's obviously bullshiat and is symbolic of a steaming pile.
 
2022-01-28 10:57:14 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-28 10:57:14 AM  
The reason some american drivers are so shiatty is also the reason why so many areas in US society is also so shiatty, the "I don't wanna and you can't make me" attitude that lead, for one example, to the massive surge in anti-vaxx sentiment during a farking deadly plague where a vaccine was actually developed (many of them, in fact).
 
2022-01-28 10:57:59 AM  

nmrsnr: Prioritize automated driving. Cars don't get tired, drunk, or distracted.

Are they perfect yet? Hell no. Are they much safer than humans? Almost certainly.


How often does your computer crash? Maybe not at all, good for you. How often would a car's lowest bidder's computer crash?
 
2022-01-28 11:01:31 AM  

Mr. Fuzzypaws: Mugato: Bike lanes without some sort of wall between them and traffic are absurd. You're riding right next to speeding traffic. A biker hits a pebble or something and falls and he's dead. It's safer just to ride on the sidewalk. You can see a pedestrian coming a mile away, one of you can accommodate the other.

As for other traffic issues, people are morons. Be a defensive driver and drive like everyone is trying to kill you.


F*ck you. Sidewalks are for walking.


Is a cyclist really more a vehicle than he is a pedestrian?

I managed to survive both walking and cycling for years in Japan where officially bikes belong on the road but in practice everyone rides on the sidewalk and nobody cares.
 
2022-01-28 11:01:47 AM  
Accident and fatality rates vary a lot from state to state, as does seat belt compliance.  There's also the tendency to hold on to older (and often less safe cars) when the economy sucks, where that's a viable option (i.e. anywhere but the Rust Belt).  Those are just things I though of offhand, there's probably a few more contributors.

Assuming this is solely due to a change in driving behavior is simply silly without far more details.
 
2022-01-28 11:02:17 AM  

Mugato: nmrsnr: Prioritize automated driving. Cars don't get tired, drunk, or distracted.

Are they perfect yet? Hell no. Are they much safer than humans? Almost certainly.

How often does your computer crash? Maybe not at all, good for you. How often would a car's lowest bidder's computer crash?


Less than drunks, sleepers, tweakers, texters, etc.
 
2022-01-28 11:02:38 AM  
And in Minnesota the left(most) lane of the freeway is always packed with people going below the speed limit. It's like everyone got together and agreed to be farking stupid about that. Good thing it's not illegal to pass on the right here.

/you betcha
 
2022-01-28 11:02:54 AM  

The Fireman: People were always terrible drivers.  Since COVID their skill has been cut in half or worse.  I am stunned at the level of aggression and hostility I see every day.

I wish driving was actually a privilege, took years of practice to get a license, and had severe enforcement.  People are far too stupid with a multi-ton death machine.


So in the huge swathes of the country with effectively no public transportation you wish earning a living and participating in society were a privilege that took years of practice to achieve?
 
2022-01-28 11:03:46 AM  

nmrsnr: Prioritize automated driving. Cars don't get tired, drunk, or distracted.

Are they perfect yet? Hell no. Are they much safer than humans? Almost certainly.


THIS.  It is an amazingly complex problem to solve: being able to drive with sun in the face of the car's sensors OR at night during a heavy downpour of rain or snow OR with people walking alongside the roadway OR on a snowy road with traffic coming the other way, ....

But yeah, take people out of the mix and it accidents will drop very fast.
 
2022-01-28 11:03:53 AM  

Mr. Fuzzypaws: Mugato: Bike lanes without some sort of wall between them and traffic are absurd. You're riding right next to speeding traffic. A biker hits a pebble or something and falls and he's dead. It's safer just to ride on the sidewalk. You can see a pedestrian coming a mile away, one of you can accommodate the other.

As for other traffic issues, people are morons. Be a defensive driver and drive like everyone is trying to kill you.


F*ck you. Sidewalks are for walking.


You sound like the principal in some 80s movie. I'm just saying bike trails without walls right next to traffic is farking dangerous.
 
2022-01-28 11:03:57 AM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2022-01-28 11:04:02 AM  

Smoking GNU: The reason some american drivers are so shiatty is also the reason why so many areas in US society is also so shiatty, the "I don't wanna and you can't make me" attitude that lead, for one example, to the massive surge in anti-vaxx sentiment during a farking deadly plague where a vaccine was actually developed (many of them, in fact).


I agree that we have an attitude problem when it comes to being told what to do, but have you ever driven in Mexico City, or Paris, or Riyadh?

Bad driving is not an exclusively American thing.
 
2022-01-28 11:05:21 AM  

p51d007: Let's see...CAFE standards "mandate" that vehicles must get xxx MPG.
So, they remove a lot of STEEL in vehicle, make "crumple zones", make them lighter and
when they do crash, injuries & deaths are UP.  But, he rides around in an armored vehicle,
or just jets across the globe in his private jet airplane.


You don't really understand cars much do you?
 
2022-01-28 11:05:28 AM  

pacified: The trucks and SUVs are too damn big


Two Octobers ago, my 1999 Wrangler TJ was totaled by some lady who was staring at her phone.  I wanted another Wranger, so I got a 2021 JL two-door.  I'm still amazed at how big that thing is.
 
2022-01-28 11:05:56 AM  

Wadded Beef: nmrsnr: Prioritize automated driving. Cars don't get tired, drunk, or distracted.

Are they perfect yet? Hell no. Are they much safer than humans? Almost certainly.

I think a great feature would be an alarm that signals you being too close to the driver in front of you relative to the speed you're going.  A 'two second rule' that's hardwired into all new cars that can't be manually turned off. I've been commuting on the interstate for a couple of decades and it seems 99% of the time the accidents that slow traffic is someone ramming into the car in front of them because they followed too close and had no time to react to a sudden slowdown.


"Connecticut" literally means "follows too f*cking close" in the original Algonquin.
 
2022-01-28 11:06:04 AM  

Devolving_Spud: Traffic circle training/instruction.  We need it.  Badly.


I've been hearing that for decades. I had a roundabout in my crappy small WI town when I was a teenager. I'm mid-40s now. If people still don't know how to handle roundabouts properly it's because, like so many other things American, they've chosen to be shiatty.
 
2022-01-28 11:06:23 AM  

CFitzsimmons: Smoking GNU: The reason some american drivers are so shiatty is also the reason why so many areas in US society is also so shiatty, the "I don't wanna and you can't make me" attitude that lead, for one example, to the massive surge in anti-vaxx sentiment during a farking deadly plague where a vaccine was actually developed (many of them, in fact).

I agree that we have an attitude problem when it comes to being told what to do, but have you ever driven in Mexico City, or Paris, or Riyadh?

Bad driving is not an exclusively American thing.


How about Bangalore? That's where the really exciting stuff happens.
 
2022-01-28 11:06:31 AM  

Devolving_Spud: Traffic circle training/instruction.  We need it.  Badly.


We can't even get people in this country to agree on farking vaccines. We'll never get any sort of agreement on traffic circles.
 
2022-01-28 11:06:59 AM  
I used to be a long-distance commuter. Now that I work at home I've lost 20 lbs & I'm in a MUCH better mood.
Driving? Once or twice a week - if I have to. Do not miss it.
 
2022-01-28 11:07:49 AM  

Trocadero: Mugato: nmrsnr: Prioritize automated driving. Cars don't get tired, drunk, or distracted.

Are they perfect yet? Hell no. Are they much safer than humans? Almost certainly.

How often does your computer crash? Maybe not at all, good for you. How often would a car's lowest bidder's computer crash?

Less than drunks, sleepers, tweakers, texters, etc.


That's a good argument. Except all those things are illegal. A girl at the wheel giving the passenger a blowjob while driving fits somewhere in that list, doesn't mean it should be a common practice.
 
2022-01-28 11:07:59 AM  

pacified: The trucks and SUVs are too damn big


In before people who are too fat to turn a steering wheel all the way chime in about how hard it is to get into a Lincoln Continental
 
2022-01-28 11:08:00 AM  

Smoking GNU: The reason some american drivers are so shiatty is also the reason why so many areas in US society is also so shiatty, the "I don't wanna and you can't make me" attitude that lead, for one example, to the massive surge in anti-vaxx sentiment during a farking deadly plague where a vaccine was actually developed (many of them, in fact).


You got to blame the "other team" for something so yay, but you've clearly never driven outside of America.
 
2022-01-28 11:08:35 AM  

Wadded Beef: nmrsnr: Prioritize automated driving. Cars don't get tired, drunk, or distracted.

Are they perfect yet? Hell no. Are they much safer than humans? Almost certainly.

I think a great feature would be an alarm that signals you being too close to the driver in front of you relative to the speed you're going.  A 'two second rule' that's hardwired into all new cars that can't be manually turned off. I've been commuting on the interstate for a couple of decades and it seems 99% of the time the accidents that slow traffic is someone ramming into the car in front of them because they followed too close and had no time to react to a sudden slowdown.


So you want to re-engineer the Fort Pitt Bridge and Tunnel?

Is your plan to add 2 more decks and two more tunnels?  Or are you going to knock down half of downtown?
 
2022-01-28 11:10:33 AM  
I sympathize with his frustration over terribly reckless driving behavior becoming normalized. When it's all over we shall walk once again and wax nostalgic on these convenient metal carriages
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-28 11:11:02 AM  

Devolving_Spud: Traffic circle training/instruction.  We need it.  Badly.


Or as us ground-ups call them, "roundabouts".
 
2022-01-28 11:11:23 AM  

Wadded Beef: nmrsnr: Prioritize automated driving. Cars don't get tired, drunk, or distracted.

Are they perfect yet? Hell no. Are they much safer than humans? Almost certainly.

I think a great feature would be an alarm that signals you being too close to the driver in front of you relative to the speed you're going.  A 'two second rule' that's hardwired into all new cars that can't be manually turned off. I've been commuting on the interstate for a couple of decades and it seems 99% of the time the accidents that slow traffic is someone ramming into the car in front of them because they followed too close and had no time to react to a sudden slowdown.


THIS! I was a delivery driver in a fairly large and eff'ed up, roadwise, city for two years. Montreal. I was super cautious and conservative and never got into any accidents. I was delivering high value low volume products so I was in just a regular van. My observations are that people are generally so cavalier about driving due to it's ubiquity than they utterly forget the speeds at which we are travelling in whatever weight vehicles. The roads here were farking terrible (they are fixing them now, super irritating but necessary). So yeah, lots of sudden stops due to massive potholes or whatever. I saw 50+ "rear-enders" as you describe WITH MY OWN EYES in those 2 years. Some sort of limiting what drivers can do, probably software combined sensors which can govern the engine/brakes. Just my take.
 
2022-01-28 11:13:27 AM  
Good to know Buttigieg is learning something at his job.

Unlike other TFG Cabinet appointees.
 
2022-01-28 11:13:37 AM  

Explodo: p51d007: Let's see...CAFE standards "mandate" that vehicles must get xxx MPG.
So, they remove a lot of STEEL in vehicle, make "crumple zones", make them lighter and
when they do crash, injuries & deaths are UP.  But, he rides around in an armored vehicle,
or just jets across the globe in his private jet airplane.

You don't really understand cars much do you?


Yeah, steel. The wonder product.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-28 11:13:46 AM  
Start with much more difficult licensing requirements, and use highway funding to get states to comply with the standards.


Require an actual road test, instead of this crap where a new driver only has to weave through some cones in a parking lot (Georgia and Florida both do this, not sure about other states).

Use some type of simulator to test reaction time, with the simulation throwing in visual distractions.

Have a written road test that forces a driver to demonstrate actual knowledge of road rules.

Make expressway driving a license endorsement that a driver can get after being licensed for two years and maintaining a safe driving record.

After age 60, a driver must retake the test every 3 years. 70-75, 2 years. 75+, every year.

Make the license much easier to suspend or revoke for multiple violations and reckless behavior.

Obviously, it would be impossible to retest everyone. Grandfather everyone in, and after 1-2 moving violations, depending on the severity, they have to take the test to retain a license.

Our current licensing and traffic enforcement is fully centered around revenue generation, not safety. Incompetent, untrained drivers can be easily ticketed.
 
2022-01-28 11:15:36 AM  

CFitzsimmons: Smoking GNU: The reason some american drivers are so shiatty is also the reason why so many areas in US society is also so shiatty, the "I don't wanna and you can't make me" attitude that lead, for one example, to the massive surge in anti-vaxx sentiment during a farking deadly plague where a vaccine was actually developed (many of them, in fact).

I agree that we have an attitude problem when it comes to being told what to do, but have you ever driven in Mexico City, or Paris, or Riyadh?

Bad driving is not an exclusively American thing.


Oh, certainly not, no argument there.
 
2022-01-28 11:15:47 AM  
fun fact:  in California, if you leave more than 14 microns between your vehicle and the vehicle in front of you, you are subject to getting punched in the throat.

Additionally, if you go around the block rather than making a Uturn, you will be summarily executed.

Transportation secretary snooki will insure these policies remain in place.
 
2022-01-28 11:17:21 AM  

Goimir: Wadded Beef: nmrsnr: Prioritize automated driving. Cars don't get tired, drunk, or distracted.

Are they perfect yet? Hell no. Are they much safer than humans? Almost certainly.

I think a great feature would be an alarm that signals you being too close to the driver in front of you relative to the speed you're going.  A 'two second rule' that's hardwired into all new cars that can't be manually turned off. I've been commuting on the interstate for a couple of decades and it seems 99% of the time the accidents that slow traffic is someone ramming into the car in front of them because they followed too close and had no time to react to a sudden slowdown.

So you want to re-engineer the Fort Pitt Bridge and Tunnel?

Is your plan to add 2 more decks and two more tunnels?  Or are you going to knock down half of downtown?


No, just a sensor in cars saying you're following too close relative to the speed you're going.
 
2022-01-28 11:17:51 AM  
While Americans drove less in 2020 due to the pandemic, NHTSA's early estimates show that an estimated 38,680 people died in motor vehicle traffic crashes-the largest projected number of fatalities since 2007. This represents an increase of about 7.2 percent as compared to the 36,096 fatalities reported in 2019

Street racing went crazy here when the pandemic started.  I can sort of hear I-285 from my house depending on which way the wind blows, but it didn't matter in 2020 because I could hear every Dodge Challenger balling out all goddamn night on that road.  They were street racing in the parking lot of the abandoned mall over here.  I wonder if that matters.
 
2022-01-28 11:18:05 AM  
The Ugly, Dangerous, and Inefficient Stroads found all over the US & Canada [ST05]
Youtube ORzNZUeUHAM
Without major changes to zoning laws allowing denser, pedestrian friendly development, we will never have more than bicycle gutters and stroads. Look into the strongtowns initiative, we are ponziing ourselves out of a sustainable economic future without major changes.
 
2022-01-28 11:18:19 AM  

FLMountainMan: Smoking GNU: The reason some american drivers are so shiatty is also the reason why so many areas in US society is also so shiatty, the "I don't wanna and you can't make me" attitude that lead, for one example, to the massive surge in anti-vaxx sentiment during a farking deadly plague where a vaccine was actually developed (many of them, in fact).

You got to blame the "other team" for something so yay, but you've clearly never driven outside of America.


Lol.
 
2022-01-28 11:18:20 AM  
I think they should make red lights longer. I notice for a lot of people red lights are "social media time" The amount of time it takes to open the phone, then the app, then scroll through and like what they need to is just not enough. Apple has made it easier with facial recognition, but that only shaves about 3 seconds off the time to put in a passcode. And with more and more apps being added every day, these entitled douchebags are not getting the most bang for the buck.
 
2022-01-28 11:18:57 AM  

p51d007: Let's see...CAFE standards "mandate" that vehicles must get xxx MPG.
So, they remove a lot of STEEL in vehicle, make "crumple zones", make them lighter and
when they do crash, injuries & deaths are UP.  But, he rides around in an armored vehicle,
or just jets across the globe in his private jet airplane.


Uh...


Well.


That seems a lot like "folksy wisdom" to me.  You know the kind of thing that floats around certain types of email chains.


There's a reason fatalities are up and I'm not sure we will know why without more analysis but I'd bet good money it's not because of advances in car safety systems.
 
2022-01-28 11:20:44 AM  
Thanks to pandemic telework, I'm not driving 18,000 commute miles per year (in the greater DC area), which reduced my overall driving by about 80%.  That also reduced my weekly driving from 5-7 days down to 1-3 days.  That has made a big difference in my driving confidence.  Extrapolate that to a lot of other drivers and you get an overall less competent driving experience.  Combine that with all the angry people out there, I'm surprised the death toll isn't higher.  I had to drive to Baltimore the other day.  It was like GTA without the bullets, as far as I could there were no bullets.
 
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