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(The Drive)   GAO: your plan to fix the KC-46A tanker's boom camera is still farked up. Air Force: shaddup, Boeing knows what they're doing   (thedrive.com) divider line
    More: Facepalm, KC-135 Stratotanker, Aerial refueling, United States Air Force, U.S. Air Force, KC-10 Extender, B-52 Stratofortress, Air Force, new report  
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1190 clicks; posted to STEM » on 28 Jan 2022 at 2:35 AM (16 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



25 Comments     (+0 »)
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2022-01-27 9:04:40 PM  
Don't blame the Air Force. This situation is not entirely upon them.

Round 1 of the air tanker competition between Boeing and AirBus, Boeing cheated. They gave a key government rep for this program a job after she awarded the contract to them. She got criminal charges for that. Boeing lost the contract.

Round 2 AirBus won over Boeing. Then Boeing used its political position to overturn that decision by the contract team, claiming the had made mistakes in awarding the tanker contract to AirBus.

Round 3 Boeing won after AirBus because of political pressure upon the tanker contract team. Blame your political leaders and senior Pentagon officials for this crap.

/Should have used AirBus's proposal.
//Flown in both makers' aircraft.
///Boeing sucks compared to AirBus and the absorbed McDonnell-Douglas.
 
2022-01-28 3:22:22 AM  
It almost feels like 2 years and 10 months ago when the AF told Boeing to piss off and clean the crap out of its KC-46 tankers before it would accept delivery of any more.  For the SECOND TIME.

Imagine getting a new car and it's full of screwdrivers and carpet scraps.
 
2022-01-28 3:33:20 AM  
Having worked for Boeing I can say that Boeing probably has no idea what it's doing. One of the most disgusting things about working there was how arrogant they executives are. They're sitting around mocking Airbus and the like while they've got a plane that's killed a few hundred people and had been grounded for over a year. Boeing is just a slight degree away from being a government agency with all the complacency and sloth that comes with that.
 
2022-01-28 3:35:39 AM  

AirForceVet: Don't blame the Air Force. This situation is not entirely upon them.

Round 1 of the air tanker competition between Boeing and AirBus, Boeing cheated. They gave a key government rep for this program a job after she awarded the contract to them. She got criminal charges for that. Boeing lost the contract.

Round 2 AirBus won over Boeing. Then Boeing used its political position to overturn that decision by the contract team, claiming the had made mistakes in awarding the tanker contract to AirBus.

Round 3 Boeing won after AirBus because of political pressure upon the tanker contract team. Blame your political leaders and senior Pentagon officials for this crap.

/Should have used AirBus's proposal.
//Flown in both makers' aircraft.
///Boeing sucks compared to AirBus and the absorbed McDonnell-Douglas.


I doubt there was ever any point in the whole process where there was any serious intention to give that contract to someone other than Boeing.  Round 2 was intended to tweak Boeing's nose about the appearance of cheating.
 
2022-01-28 4:33:33 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

IIRC this cartoon was from Round 2 of failed tanker bidding
 
2022-01-28 4:49:09 AM  
Boom goes the dynamite KC-46A.
 
2022-01-28 6:05:22 AM  

thehellisthis: It almost feels like 2 years and 10 months ago when the AF told Boeing to piss off and clean the crap out of its KC-46 tankers before it would accept delivery of any more.  For the SECOND TIME.

Imagine getting a new car and it's full of screwdrivers and carpet scraps.


Somebody needed to watch the FODfather training video again.
 
2022-01-28 7:04:54 AM  

thehellisthis: It almost feels like 2 years and 10 months ago when the AF told Boeing to piss off and clean the crap out of its KC-46 tankers before it would accept delivery of any more.  For the SECOND TIME.

Imagine getting a new car and it's full of screwdrivers and carpet scraps.


Hey, free screwdriver!
 
2022-01-28 7:07:24 AM  

Evildog: Having worked for Boeing I can say that Boeing probably has no idea what it's doing.


737 Max.  Starliner.  KC-46.

What would ever give anyone the idea that Boeing actually knew what it was doing?
 
2022-01-28 7:52:53 AM  
Question: Why is the tankers end of the connection not something that is actively controlled by now? I mean how hard is it to stick a drone on the end and tell a crew member to play hit the target
 
2022-01-28 8:16:38 AM  
The Pentagon can't account for trillions of dollars, according to their own Inspector General.  Once this dust-up in the Ukraine is over, cut their budget 50% and let them justify every increase thereafter.  We'd still be spending the most in the world on defense.
 
2022-01-28 8:58:30 AM  

FLMountainMan: The Pentagon can't account for trillions of dollars, according to their own Inspector General.  Once this dust-up in the Ukraine is over, cut their budget 50% and let them justify every increase thereafter.  We'd still be spending the most in the world on defense.


That's the farked up DoD accounting process.  Every single dollar that goes to a specific program can be tracked by each service.  But DoD's hinky accounting double and triple counts streams of money so you get an overinflated figure.
 
2022-01-28 9:42:21 AM  

TTFK: Evildog: Having worked for Boeing I can say that Boeing probably has no idea what it's doing.

737 Max.  Starliner.  KC-46.

What would ever give anyone the idea that Boeing actually knew what it was doing?


Up until (and including) the 777, Boeing was making great planes. They've been sliding backwards ever since.
 
2022-01-28 10:37:06 AM  

Arkanaut: Up until (and including) the 777, Boeing was making great planes. They've been sliding backwards ever since.


The 787 was and is also a great plane - it was just the distributed manufacturing of parts by contractors that was entirely botched.

The 737 MAX was a frightening debacle. Yes, Boeing wanted to keep the idea that "All 737s are the same!" but decades of progress made that a dumb idea. They should have committed to a NMA about 15 years ago and built both a 737 replacement and a 757 replacement with new technology (composite materials like the 787). Sure, airline pilots will need simulator training to get a new type certificate. Time to rip that band-aid off all in one quick motion and commit to it rather than making the 737 MAX as a kludge with the attempts to stick some new engines on a 1960s plane.
 
2022-01-28 10:39:04 AM  

aerojockey: Round 2 was intended to tweak Boeing's nose about the appearance of cheating.


That's probably why it was a firm fixed price contract and not cost plus
 
2022-01-28 10:59:09 AM  
So why is there not a camera(s) on the fuel boom itself?

My car has a tiny on the back that has clearer pictures than shown in those slides.

Or maybe a backup sensor?  Something that would beep faster as the boom got closer to the fuel intake on the plane?

And an even crazier idea...LIDAR similar to what Cadillac has ( called "Super Cruise" ) that would automatically position the fuel boom to the plane?
 
2022-01-28 11:13:39 AM  

johnny_vegas: FLMountainMan: The Pentagon can't account for trillions of dollars, according to their own Inspector General.  Once this dust-up in the Ukraine is over, cut their budget 50% and let them justify every increase thereafter.  We'd still be spending the most in the world on defense.

That's the farked up DoD accounting process.  Every single dollar that goes to a specific program can be tracked by each service.  But DoD's hinky accounting double and triple counts streams of money so you get an overinflated figure.


I read that explanation as well.  I'm sure it accounts for all the trillions missing.  The Pentagon is spending money for our safety.  Questioning America's military spending is reckless, if not treasonous.  My apologies.
 
2022-01-28 11:16:42 AM  

mrmopar5287: The 787 was and is also a great plane - it was just the distributed manufacturing of parts by contractors that was entirely botched.


There's that, and there's also the move to the South Carolina plant, which is (as of a couple of years ago, at least) still churning out shoddily built aircraft: https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-787-dreamliner-airline-complaints-quality-production-2019-8

// I can't imagine their production standards have somehow gotten better with Covid around.
 
2022-01-28 11:36:57 AM  

FLMountainMan: johnny_vegas: FLMountainMan: The Pentagon can't account for trillions of dollars, according to their own Inspector General.  Once this dust-up in the Ukraine is over, cut their budget 50% and let them justify every increase thereafter.  We'd still be spending the most in the world on defense.

That's the farked up DoD accounting process.  Every single dollar that goes to a specific program can be tracked by each service.  But DoD's hinky accounting double and triple counts streams of money so you get an overinflated figure.

I read that explanation as well.  I'm sure it accounts for all the trillions missing.  The Pentagon is spending money for our safety.  Questioning America's military spending is reckless, if not treasonous.  My apologies.


You read it, but you didn't comprehend it apparently.
*shrug* I lived it for a little.
Tell me more about the $21 trillion the DoD can't account for over 17 years?
 
2022-01-28 11:53:16 AM  

johnny_vegas: FLMountainMan: johnny_vegas: FLMountainMan: The Pentagon can't account for trillions of dollars, according to their own Inspector General.  Once this dust-up in the Ukraine is over, cut their budget 50% and let them justify every increase thereafter.  We'd still be spending the most in the world on defense.

That's the farked up DoD accounting process.  Every single dollar that goes to a specific program can be tracked by each service.  But DoD's hinky accounting double and triple counts streams of money so you get an overinflated figure.

I read that explanation as well.  I'm sure it accounts for all the trillions missing.  The Pentagon is spending money for our safety.  Questioning America's military spending is reckless, if not treasonous.  My apologies.

You read it, but you didn't comprehend it apparently.
*shrug* I lived it for a little.
Tell me more about the $21 trillion the DoD can't account for over 17 years?


Actually, as a former government auditor, I understand it pretty well.  Do you understand the underlying issues that their farked up accounting process causes and what it allows to be hidden?  And why, despite all historical evidence to the contrary, are you not inferring any malicious intent from thr DoD's insistence on continuing to use this accounting methodology?

I have to say, it's been surprising how quickly the FarkCollective has gone from attacking the incredible waste in our military spending to stanning for the Pentagon.  It's only rivaled by the way Republicans forget about the deficit every time a Republican is in the Oval Office.
 
2022-01-28 12:29:20 PM  

FLMountainMan: johnny_vegas: FLMountainMan: johnny_vegas: FLMountainMan: The Pentagon can't account for trillions of dollars, according to their own Inspector General.  Once this dust-up in the Ukraine is over, cut their budget 50% and let them justify every increase thereafter.  We'd still be spending the most in the world on defense.

That's the farked up DoD accounting process.  Every single dollar that goes to a specific program can be tracked by each service.  But DoD's hinky accounting double and triple counts streams of money so you get an overinflated figure.

I read that explanation as well.  I'm sure it accounts for all the trillions missing.  The Pentagon is spending money for our safety.  Questioning America's military spending is reckless, if not treasonous.  My apologies.

You read it, but you didn't comprehend it apparently.
*shrug* I lived it for a little.
Tell me more about the $21 trillion the DoD can't account for over 17 years?

Actually, as a former government auditor, I understand it pretty well.  Do you understand the underlying issues that their farked up accounting process causes and what it allows to be hidden?  And why, despite all historical evidence to the contrary, are you not inferring any malicious intent from thr DoD's insistence on continuing to use this accounting methodology?

I have to say, it's been surprising how quickly the FarkCollective has gone from attacking the incredible waste in our military spending to stanning for the Pentagon.  It's only rivaled by the way Republicans forget about the deficit every time a Republican is in the Oval Office.


I absolutely blame the DoD. I lived from a service perspective where we had to account minutely fir every dollar in our programs.
Your assertion that 50 percent of the budget should be cut is the opinion I have issue with.
 
2022-01-28 12:41:44 PM  

Arkanaut: mrmopar5287: The 787 was and is also a great plane - it was just the distributed manufacturing of parts by contractors that was entirely botched.

There's that, and there's also the move to the South Carolina plant, which is (as of a couple of years ago, at least) still churning out shoddily built aircraft: https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-787-dreamliner-airline-complaints-quality-production-2019-8

// I can't imagine their production standards have somehow gotten better with Covid around.


South Carolina plant is non union.
 
2022-01-28 1:25:12 PM  
I don't know anybody in the tanker operations business that thinks putting the boom operator up front was a great idea. Just put them in back like the other planes since that works good.

I guess the theory was it was going to save money somehow. Ha ha Ha. But now there's no way to ever admit they're wrong and you're going to spend as much as it takes to get it to work like they originally proposed rather than in and fixing it in any other way
 
2022-01-28 1:25:44 PM  
Fixing a problem while making the same mistake?

Sounds like every repair I'be ever had to make that needed to be cleared by a committee.

The permanent fixes? Yeah, just went ahead and did it. No one notices when things stop breaking, so no forgiveness is ever needed
 
2022-01-28 5:42:08 PM  

edmo: I don't know anybody in the tanker operations business that thinks putting the boom operator up front was a great idea. Just put them in back like the other planes since that works good.


I couldn't figure that one out, either.
 
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