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(Talking Points Memo)   Madison Cawthorn's lawyer defends his eligibility for office by citing the Confederacy Amnesty Act   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line
    More: Awkward, United States Congress, American Civil War, United States Constitution, Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, Rep. Madison Cawthorn, United States House of Representatives, Rebellion, legal challenge  
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4302 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Jan 2022 at 2:35 PM (22 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-01-27 1:31:13 PM  
He looks a little young to have served in the confederate army.
 
2022-01-27 1:36:33 PM  
When you have to contort a 150-year old amnesty act to use it as a defense against committing insurrection against the country... maybe it's time to rethink your life choices
 
2022-01-27 1:40:57 PM  
So that 150 year amnesty act applies not only to civil war insurrectionists but to every insurrectionist in the future? Counselor, is that what your claiming? Counselor? Come back here. Yes, you.

Bailiff, get me my giant gavel.
 
2022-01-27 1:41:43 PM  
His lawyer is not a clever man...
 
2022-01-27 1:44:22 PM  

OldRod: When you have to contort a 150-year old amnesty act to use it as a defense against committing insurrection against the country... maybe it's time to rethink your life choices


Actually, he admitted to insurrection as a defense for re-election.  The act didn't say the Confedoes didn't commit insurrection, just that Congress would not use that to disqualify them from elections (which was a clause in that section of the 14th).  To qualify for the Act, Cawthorne would have to admit he committed sedition/treason.  So that he could run for office.  I hope he likes running a campaign from federal prison, because he literally just pled guilty to McVeigh-level crimes.
 
2022-01-27 1:46:15 PM  
So, his defense is not "I didn't do it".  It's "I got amnesty for doing it"?

Yeah, that'll work out well for him
 
2022-01-27 2:37:08 PM  
It's weird for your lawyer to actually admit that you participated in an insurrection.

His lawyer should get a lawyer, who should tell him to shut the fark up.
 
2022-01-27 2:37:18 PM  
So you admit you're an insurrectionist.

Great, you can serve from prison.
 
2022-01-27 2:37:59 PM  
I doubt this will stand in court.
 
2022-01-27 2:38:04 PM  
Shows something that they had something this obscure ready to go as a defense.
 
2022-01-27 2:39:16 PM  

The Homer Tax: It's weird for your lawyer to actually admit that you participated in an insurrection.

His lawyer should get a lawyer, who should tell him to shut the fark up.


Does the crime-fraud exception to attorney-client privilege apply if everything is said openly in public?
 
2022-01-27 2:39:22 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-27 2:39:28 PM  
As confessions go, this one is fractally stupid.
 
2022-01-27 2:39:48 PM  
The first step in recovering from being a traitor is to admit you are a traitor.
 
2022-01-27 2:40:12 PM  
The second step is jail.
 
2022-01-27 2:41:08 PM  
Just remember, those who graduated last from their fourth tier law school, and passed their pass/fail bar exam by one point still get to call themselves a lawyer, and can represent clients.
 
2022-01-27 2:41:26 PM  
I know this doesn't count as legally stipulating to Cawthorn's participation in insurrection.... but fark me it feels like it comes really close.
 
2022-01-27 2:43:51 PM  
Here's how i picture his attorney:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-27 2:45:33 PM  
Do laws override constitutional amendments?
 
2022-01-27 2:45:47 PM  

severedtoe: Here's how i picture his attorney:

[Fark user image 175x288]


I'm sorry, I thought you was corn.
 
2022-01-27 2:46:28 PM  
So, we're admitting it was an act of war against the nation then? And thereby an act of some version of treason, sedition or other equal level caliber?
 
2022-01-27 2:46:39 PM  

severedtoe: Here's how i picture his attorney:

[Fark user image image 175x288]


"Your honor, I move that I be disbarred for introducing this evidence against my client."
 
2022-01-27 2:47:51 PM  
I'm no law-whisperer or anything, but I figure you might not have high hopes for your client if your first choice is to leap to "Well, if he were a traitor..." options.
 
2022-01-27 2:48:12 PM  
Ok, his last name just changed from being pronounced caw-thorn, to cawt-horn.
'cuz when you mess with the bull, you catch those.
 
2022-01-27 2:49:08 PM  
Your Honor.  Prohibition against murder wasn't settled law when Man first appeared in the fossil record.
 
2022-01-27 2:50:05 PM  
So not only have you admitted that it was, in fact, an insurrection, Madison, but you've also admitted that you were a party to the insurrection.

i.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2022-01-27 2:50:13 PM  
I'm shocked the lawyer did not invoke the "He's just a good ole' boy, didn't mean no harm" defense and spits Skoal into a flower pot. Works every time
 
2022-01-27 2:51:07 PM  
Middle-school congressman has middle-school lawyer.  How's about that.
 
2022-01-27 2:51:52 PM  
i.pinimg.comView Full Size

May I as his attorney, plead the fifth?

 
2022-01-27 2:52:14 PM  
This is a bad day for Madison... I have a feeling a tree is about to get punched
 
2022-01-27 2:53:41 PM  
If this works, can it be used against Methorie and Lisa Loeb?
 
2022-01-27 2:54:37 PM  

disaster bastard: Do laws override constitutional amendments?


They don't.  But if the amendment explicitly says that Congress can remove the disability, Congress can remove the disability.
 
2022-01-27 2:56:32 PM  
It's also funny to look at the text of that law and its history.

Amnesty was granted, but it wasn't universal  People who were members of Congress in the years immediately before the Civil War who took part in working for the Confederacy were excluded from amnesty.  Looking at what the Act was meant to accomplish, we can clearly see the people who passed this act did not want to grant amnesty to Representatives who took part in insurrection.
 
2022-01-27 3:00:27 PM  
There's a "Madison Cawthorn can't "run" for anything" joke in there somewhere, but I'm not gonna be the first one to say it.

Wait a second...
 
2022-01-27 3:02:29 PM  

OldRod: This is a bad day for Madison... I have a feeling a tree is about to get punched


Yeah, but only dead and rotten trees that need to make way for new growth. A Madison Cawthorn is actually a very important part of any temperate forest's ecosystem.
 
2022-01-27 3:08:50 PM  
heh, "James Bopp Jr." - well that's one hell of a moniker!
 
2022-01-27 3:09:34 PM  
Look at the bright side. At least he is admitting he was involved in an insurrection and shouldn't be held responsible. Baby steps.
 
2022-01-27 3:12:23 PM  
"Cawthorn lawyer James Bopp, Jr." Jesus farking Christ, did Sebastian Blarrrgghhh, Esq. need to recuse?
 
2022-01-27 3:15:08 PM  

disaster bastard: Do laws override constitutional amendments?


The Amendment states:

But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Congress did so in passing the Amnesty Act of 1872, so there's no conflict.

To be fair to Cawthorn, I think his lawyer's reading of the act is correct. You can find the wording at https://govtrackus.s3.amazonaws.com/legislink/pdf/stat/17/STATUTE-17-Pg142.pdf - it doesn't seem to scope itself to a specific time period, and appears to remove the restriction entirely. Wouldn't be the first law to be dumbly written.
 
2022-01-27 3:16:34 PM  

ceejayoz: disaster bastard: Do laws override constitutional amendments?

The Amendment states:

But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Congress did so in passing the Amnesty Act of 1872, so there's no conflict.

To be fair to Cawthorn, I think his lawyer's reading of the act is correct. You can find the wording at https://govtrackus.s3.amazonaws.com/legislink/pdf/stat/17/STATUTE-17-Pg142.pdf - it doesn't seem to scope itself to a specific time period, and appears to remove the restriction entirely. Wouldn't be the first law to be dumbly written.


I bet Republicans don't see how shortsighted supporting this defense could potentially be.
 
2022-01-27 3:22:02 PM  

iron_city_ap: I bet Republicans don't see how shortsighted supporting this defense could potentially be.


I'm fine with his interpretation as long as he's willing to confess under oath to being part of an insurrection.
 
2022-01-27 3:23:06 PM  
Wait, so does this mean Rep. Cauthon is antifa??
 
2022-01-27 3:23:07 PM  
Wait.. he's trying to use this law as an excuse to get out of it, and when pressed on what he did, the lawyers response is that Cawthorn didn't 'participate' because he was on the house floor at the time of the insurrection.

Basically, the lawyer is trying to have it both ways. "My client is a traitor but gets a free pass because of this 150 year old law that identifies him as a traitor, but aslo he's NOT a traitor because reasons".
 
2022-01-27 3:24:28 PM  

ceejayoz: disaster bastard: Do laws override constitutional amendments?

The Amendment states:

But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Congress did so in passing the Amnesty Act of 1872, so there's no conflict.

To be fair to Cawthorn, I think his lawyer's reading of the act is correct. You can find the wording at https://govtrackus.s3.amazonaws.com/legislink/pdf/stat/17/STATUTE-17-Pg142.pdf - it doesn't seem to scope itself to a specific time period, and appears to remove the restriction entirely. Wouldn't be the first law to be dumbly written.


IANAL and neither are you, so both of our opinions are worth squat.

But it seems silly and contrived to interpret that as applicable to all persons in perpetuity, forever. I think it's pretty clear that congress can only provide such remedy for persons currently alive at the time of passage.
 
2022-01-27 3:25:17 PM  
Why is he dressed as a Nazi from an Indiana Jones movie?

Does he think they are the good guys?

/I'll get you next time Jones!
 
2022-01-27 3:25:25 PM  
Maybe he should propose the Congressional Medal of Treason.
 
2022-01-27 3:25:38 PM  

emtwo: I think it's pretty clear that congress can only provide such remedy for persons currently alive at the time of passage.


Based on what?
 
2022-01-27 3:28:10 PM  

BitwiseShift: Maybe he should propose the Congressional Medal of Treason.  Treeson

 
2022-01-27 3:30:43 PM  
His lawyer is really dumb:

It wasn't an insurrection, it wasn't a rebellion by any sensible definition of those words, and Cawthorn was on the floor of Congress when it occurred doing his official duties, so he wasn't 'engaged' in any of it," he said.

My client couldn't have conspired to commit rob this bank because as they robbed it he was merely acting as a lookout
 
2022-01-27 3:30:54 PM  

emtwo: But it seems silly and contrived to interpret that as applicable to all persons in perpetuity, forever. I think it's pretty clear that congress can only provide such remedy for persons currently alive at the time of passage.


That seems... unlikely.

If they repeal a law, does it come back into effect for babies because they weren't alive at the time?

"That all political disabilities imposed by the third section of the fourteenth article of amendments of the Constitution of the United States are hereby removed from all persons whomsoever [except a small list of specific people]" would seem to cover future persons.
 
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