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(KOB4) Hero Firefighters sacrifice jobs to protest sacrificial wages that don't justify making the ultimate sacrifice on the job   (kob.com) divider line
    More: Hero, Minimum wage, Question, city administrators, City officials, additional information, entry-level pay, minimum wage, city administrator  
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3255 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jan 2022 at 5:30 AM (16 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-01-25 2:22:02 AM  
Is this from that same village or something place that doesn't pay teens to be first responders?
 
2022-01-25 4:21:06 AM  

solokumba: Is this from that same village or something place that doesn't pay teens to be first responders?


A lot of places don't pay first responders. Something like 70% of the US is dependent on unpaid volunteers for EMS and Fire response. Because Rescue and EMS are not considered essential public service on the federal level, and 26 states still consider it an optional provision to obtain federal highway funds.

Some states didn't even require first responders to be properly trained on entry level firefighting concepts until 2018.
 
2022-01-25 5:45:23 AM  
every time I have gotten a job they tell me up front what it pays before I agree to work there. has something changed?
 
2022-01-25 6:06:33 AM  
Don't they know the real money is in the calendars?
 
2022-01-25 6:08:01 AM  

hardinparamedic: solokumba: Is this from that same village or something place that doesn't pay teens to be first responders?

A lot of places don't pay first responders. Something like 70% of the US is dependent on unpaid volunteers for EMS and Fire response. Because Rescue and EMS are not considered essential public service on the federal level, and 26 states still consider it an optional provision to obtain federal highway funds.

Some states didn't even require first responders to be properly trained on entry level firefighting concepts until 2018.


Pretty sure this is the one.

Emergency Medical Services: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)
Youtube Ezv8sdTLxKo
 
2022-01-25 6:10:02 AM  

chucknasty: every time I have gotten a job they tell me up front what it pays before I agree to work there. has something changed?


What point are you trying to make, exactly? Because you're talking about the past, and we're talking about the present.
 
2022-01-25 6:14:53 AM  
Schrödinger's workers are essential when it comes to making them come in to work during a pandemic and not essential when it comes to paying them, providing benefits or improving their working conditions.
 
2022-01-25 6:19:58 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

Hmm...
 
2022-01-25 6:20:27 AM  

Gordon Bennett: Schrödinger's workers are essential when it comes to making them come in to work during a pandemic and not essential when it comes to paying them, providing benefits or improving their working conditions.


Smart AND Funny.
Good job.
 
2022-01-25 6:22:04 AM  
Elton John - Sacrifice
Youtube NrLkTZrPZA4
 
2022-01-25 6:23:01 AM  

Resident Muslim: Gordon Bennett: Schrödinger's workers are essential when it comes to making them come in to work during a pandemic and not essential when it comes to paying them, providing benefits or improving their working conditions.

Smart AND Funny.
Good job.


Smunnies only serve to split the vote and further divide our nation.
 
2022-01-25 6:47:08 AM  
I've been through Deming a few times. It's a little town in the middle of absolutely nowhere. It's a beautiful area but I don't know how they actually live there.
 
2022-01-25 6:48:32 AM  
I know a couple of guys who went into Fire Science because they believed the university's advertisement. They discovered when they graduated that it was almost impossible to get placed in a local firehouse unless you were a legacy.
 
2022-01-25 6:50:34 AM  

iheartscotch: I know a couple of guys who went into Fire Science because they believed the university's advertisement. They discovered when they graduated that it was almost impossible to get placed in a local firehouse unless you were a legacy.


Fire science is basically a way to sell promotions for those already in the department, as many require an associates or Bachelors for officer promotions and highly coveted inspector and investigator positions.

Kind of like how criminal justice falsely promises it's people they'll become cops if they get their degrees.

Unless you're already in the field, it's useless to you.

/if you want to get hired by a fire department, get your paramedic and have a good fitness/physical ability score on the CPAT.
 
2022-01-25 7:02:22 AM  

Tokin42: I've been through Deming a few times. It's a little town in the middle of absolutely nowhere. It's a beautiful area but I don't know how they actually live there.


And part of the thing about it being "in the middle of nowhere" is that it's also the only place that
could really respond fire and ambulance service between Las Cruces and Arizona..I guess maybe
Lordsburg might have volunteers.. But, there is basically NOTHING out there and a LOT of cars
and a LOT of trains pass that corridor between El Paso and Tucson..
 
2022-01-25 7:02:43 AM  
But what about the perks
The smugness
The homoerotic calanders
The fawning public
 
2022-01-25 7:04:07 AM  

hardinparamedic: solokumba: Is this from that same village or something place that doesn't pay teens to be first responders?

A lot of places don't pay first responders. Something like 70% of the US is dependent on unpaid volunteers for EMS and Fire response. Because Rescue and EMS are not considered essential public service on the federal level, and 26 states still consider it an optional provision to obtain federal highway funds.

Some states didn't even require first responders to be properly trained on entry level firefighting concepts until 2018.


And americans wonder why the country is called a shiathole by outsiders more and more, and it has nothing to do with race.
 
2022-01-25 7:17:15 AM  
More pay for what?  Lounging around the firehouse eating chili and watching movies? Besides, aren't like 95% of the calls they respond to false alarms? Be nice if my job was spending 70% of the day screwing around in a lounge chair, and then only having to actually work 5% of the 30% of the times o actually had to get up and go for a drive.

/no, for God's sake, I'm not serious.
 
2022-01-25 7:19:14 AM  

MythDragon: More pay for what?  Lounging around the firehouse eating chili and watching movies? Besides, aren't like 95% of the calls they respond to false alarms? Be nice if my job was spending 70% of the day screwing around in a lounge chair, and then only having to actually work 5% of the 30% of the times o actually had to get up and go for a drive.

/no, for God's sake, I'm not serious.


I snickered, and then I heard the "police the police" asshole from our local "town crime" board harassing us getting lunch at a grocery store for "wasting his tax dollars"

/i work for a private service
 
2022-01-25 7:23:35 AM  

MythDragon: More pay for what?  Lounging around the firehouse eating chili and watching movies? Besides, aren't like 95% of the calls they respond to false alarms? Be nice if my job was spending 70% of the day screwing around in a lounge chair, and then only having to actually work 5% of the 30% of the times o actually had to get up and go for a drive.

/no, for God's sake, I'm not serious.


LOL we found to people too lazy to be teachers LOL wharrgharbll

/Knows people like this
 
2022-01-25 7:25:24 AM  

chucknasty: every time I have gotten a job they tell me up front what it pays before I agree to work there. has something changed?


Every time I've gotten a job I've been free to ask for a raise.

Had something changed?
 
2022-01-25 7:26:07 AM  

foo monkey: Resident Muslim: Gordon Bennett: Schrödinger's workers are essential when it comes to making them come in to work during a pandemic and not essential when it comes to paying them, providing benefits or improving their working conditions.

Smart AND Funny.
Good job.

Smunnies only serve to split the vote and further divide our nation.


Smunnied
 
2022-01-25 7:35:20 AM  

IndyJohn: foo monkey: Resident Muslim: Gordon Bennett: Schrödinger's workers are essential when it comes to making them come in to work during a pandemic and not essential when it comes to paying them, providing benefits or improving their working conditions.

Smart AND Funny.
Good job.

Smunnies only serve to split the vote and further divide our nation.

Smunnied


Is this the new crypto
 
2022-01-25 7:39:12 AM  

IndyJohn: chucknasty: every time I have gotten a job they tell me up front what it pays before I agree to work there. has something changed?

Every time I've gotten a job I've been free to ask for a raise.

Had something changed?


In those jobs did you twerk for a small local government, run by crazy and people?
 
2022-01-25 7:41:11 AM  
A decade ago our local mayor attempted to completely gut out fire department, saying the city couldn't afford to have it staffed and pay our firefighters decent wages.

Around the same time the police station got a complete overhaul and a full replacement of their fleet of vehicles.  I don't think there's a coincidence his brother's an officer.

We need our responders treated equally well and taken care of so they can take care of us when we need it.  Having had several fire chiefs in my family makes me want all our firefighters taken care of.
 
2022-01-25 7:52:16 AM  

hoodiowithtudio: IndyJohn: chucknasty: every time I have gotten a job they tell me up front what it pays before I agree to work there. has something changed?

Every time I've gotten a job I've been free to ask for a raise.

Had something changed?

In those jobs did you twerk for a small local government, run by crazy and people?


What I do with my Tuesday nights is none of your business.
 
2022-01-25 7:54:15 AM  

I May Be Crazy But...: hoodiowithtudio: IndyJohn: chucknasty: every time I have gotten a job they tell me up front what it pays before I agree to work there. has something changed?

Every time I've gotten a job I've been free to ask for a raise.

Had something changed?

In those jobs did you twerk for a small local government, run by crazy and people?

What I do with my Tuesday nights is none of your business.


Hey, I'm not talking about blowing a seal.
 
2022-01-25 8:06:16 AM  

hardinparamedic: MythDragon: More pay for what?  Lounging around the firehouse eating chili and watching movies? Besides, aren't like 95% of the calls they respond to false alarms? Be nice if my job was spending 70% of the day screwing around in a lounge chair, and then only having to actually work 5% of the 30% of the times o actually had to get up and go for a drive.

/no, for God's sake, I'm not serious.

I snickered, and then I heard the "police the police" asshole from our local "town crime" board harassing us getting lunch at a grocery store for "wasting his tax dollars"

/i work for a private service


Should had told him his tax dollars was buying your lunch as well.
 
2022-01-25 8:11:12 AM  

Resident Muslim: [Fark user image 425x619]
Hmm...


Hot Time In The Old Town Tonight
Youtube m4TYFOmpVBI
 
2022-01-25 8:13:11 AM  

Smoking GNU: and it has nothing little to do with race.


FTFY
 
2022-01-25 8:38:06 AM  
Slowly, little by little, people are realizing this is an issue with almost every job.
 
2022-01-25 9:03:12 AM  
Pay Me My Money Down (Live at the New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival, 2006)
Youtube XiMYqDD9kXw
 
2022-01-25 9:18:39 AM  

MythDragon: hardinparamedic: MythDragon: More pay for what?  Lounging around the firehouse eating chili and watching movies? Besides, aren't like 95% of the calls they respond to false alarms? Be nice if my job was spending 70% of the day screwing around in a lounge chair, and then only having to actually work 5% of the 30% of the times o actually had to get up and go for a drive.

/no, for God's sake, I'm not serious.

I snickered, and then I heard the "police the police" asshole from our local "town crime" board harassing us getting lunch at a grocery store for "wasting his tax dollars"

/i work for a private service

Should had told him his tax dollars was buying your lunch as well.


When I was a director for Key West I used to get this shiat all the time. I got so tired of it I did the math. Each tax paying citizen contributed approximately $3 a year to my salary, or about $0.0015 to my hourly rate. So it they pulled the "my taxes pay your salary" crap, I gave them all the time and attention that every penny of their tax contribution to my salary covered.
 
2022-01-25 9:26:59 AM  
I live in Northeast Pa. Cost of living here is ridiculously cheap. Being a professional fire fighter is one of the highest paying jobs you can have here without a college degree. They average $70K+ per year and they never have more than a 3 day work week. Granted, they are at the station 24 hours per day but as someone else pointed out, they aren't actually working for all of those hours.
 
2022-01-25 9:50:10 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


The mayor (officially) makes just under $13,000 per year.

Just sayin'
 
2022-01-25 9:50:36 AM  
"They're making almost minimum wage, almost less than fast-food workers."

$12 an hour? The McDonald's down the street from me pays $15
 
2022-01-25 9:51:49 AM  

chucknasty: every time I have gotten a job they tell me up front what it pays before I agree to work there. has something changed?


And when I couldn't get an increase at the job I was on I looked for a better paying job. I also got two degrees, one advanced, so I wasn't locked into the wages of a teen when I was 36.
 
2022-01-25 9:52:53 AM  

hardinparamedic: solokumba: Is this from that same village or something place that doesn't pay teens to be first responders?

A lot of places don't pay first responders. Something like 70% of the US is dependent on unpaid volunteers for EMS and Fire response. Because Rescue and EMS are not considered essential public service on the federal level, and 26 states still consider it an optional provision to obtain federal highway funds.

Some states didn't even require first responders to be properly trained on entry level firefighting concepts until 2018.



Has anyone in the US ever given any thought to paying for these kinds of things (and many other communal benefits) through some system of collective payment that would cover the cost? Maybe some portion of wages or a small addition to the cost of purchases. Not sure what to call it, but it might be worth looking into.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-25 10:26:07 AM  
GOP legislators seen eagerly waiting in the wings to attempt to re-privatize fire companies the way they've been privatizing schools, now that the appear to be sufficiently broken by GOP mismanagement and malfeasance...
 
2022-01-25 10:38:07 AM  
It's a risky and demanding job for sure, but that hourly rate also includes being paid for sleeping, playing games, watching TV, posing for oiled up calendar photos, and circle jerking.
There's a reason there are so many volunteer fire departments.
 
2022-01-25 10:43:47 AM  

hardinparamedic: /i work for a private service


And even if you didn't?  Gotta eat, right?  Still have to return from calls, pick up supplies at another station, get fuel, go out for multi-company training, do the truck checks, any number of errands that can be stacked with swinging into a deli or pizza shop or grocery to pick up lunch. Even if the chores are planned around lunch - "fuel's at 3/4; go get around 11 and stop by the bodega on 5th for grinders?"  What tax dollars have been wasted?

Two recent busybody complaints - we have orders to take the all the trucks out onto the interstate weekly to "blow them out;" the emissions control systems don't respond well to city-only driving. The manufacturers recommend it, the city shop told the chief he should do it, so he issued the order. About once a month a complaint comes in about seeing a city fire truck "joyriding" on the highway well outside city limits. Yeah, i beat the shiat out of my back for 20 miles in the tiller box for kicks.

The newest one that's come out is the chief is stomping around making threats because some guy is sending him pictures of our guys not wearing masks. Guy lives in an apartment building kitty-corner to one of the firehouses and has a view down into the little courtyard they have there.  The guys are outside, fairly distanced, using the grill or having cigars or whatever. I can see the chief losing his mind if guys aren't wearing masks on calls or going out in the public spaces. I can see him giving a "c'mon guys, think about how this looks" order for some situations where perception is more important than reality. This complaint? "Thank you for your concern.  The department currently has policies in place to attempt to limit the spread of illness. These employees are outdoors and distanced, in compliance with those policies. Please feel free to contact me with any further concerns so that I can continue to politely ignore them."
 
2022-01-25 11:30:22 AM  

Someone Else's Alt: MythDragon: hardinparamedic: MythDragon: More pay for what?  Lounging around the firehouse eating chili and watching movies? Besides, aren't like 95% of the calls they respond to false alarms? Be nice if my job was spending 70% of the day screwing around in a lounge chair, and then only having to actually work 5% of the 30% of the times o actually had to get up and go for a drive.

/no, for God's sake, I'm not serious.

I snickered, and then I heard the "police the police" asshole from our local "town crime" board harassing us getting lunch at a grocery store for "wasting his tax dollars"

/i work for a private service

Should had told him his tax dollars was buying your lunch as well.

When I was a director for Key West I used to get this shiat all the time. I got so tired of it I did the math. Each tax paying citizen contributed approximately $3 a year to my salary, or about $0.0015 to my hourly rate. So it they pulled the "my taxes pay your salary" crap, I gave them all the time and attention that every penny of their tax contribution to my salary covered.


Hell, you pay taxes too, so your tax dollars funded your own salary.
 
2022-01-25 12:19:50 PM  

jmr61: chucknasty: every time I have gotten a job they tell me up front what it pays before I agree to work there. has something changed?

And when I couldn't get an increase at the job I was on I looked for a better paying job. I also got two degrees, one advanced, so I wasn't locked into the wages of a teen when I was 36.


You pulled on those bootstraps so hard they snapped right off, didn't they?
 
2022-01-25 12:22:50 PM  

NM Volunteer: Someone Else's Alt: MythDragon: hardinparamedic: MythDragon: More pay for what?  Lounging around the firehouse eating chili and watching movies? Besides, aren't like 95% of the calls they respond to false alarms? Be nice if my job was spending 70% of the day screwing around in a lounge chair, and then only having to actually work 5% of the 30% of the times o actually had to get up and go for a drive.

/no, for God's sake, I'm not serious.

I snickered, and then I heard the "police the police" asshole from our local "town crime" board harassing us getting lunch at a grocery store for "wasting his tax dollars"

/i work for a private service

Should had told him his tax dollars was buying your lunch as well.

When I was a director for Key West I used to get this shiat all the time. I got so tired of it I did the math. Each tax paying citizen contributed approximately $3 a year to my salary, or about $0.0015 to my hourly rate. So it they pulled the "my taxes pay your salary" crap, I gave them all the time and attention that every penny of their tax contribution to my salary covered.

Hell, you pay taxes too, so your tax dollars funded your own salary.


Nope, I had a house in the lower keys, not in Key West proper, so my taxes went to Monroe County not Key West. Now if Key West had been paying me more, maybe I could have afforded a house on the island, then I would have been paying my own salary, or $3 towards it.
 
2022-01-25 12:29:52 PM  

Someone Else's Alt: NM Volunteer: Someone Else's Alt: MythDragon: hardinparamedic: MythDragon: More pay for what?  Lounging around the firehouse eating chili and watching movies? Besides, aren't like 95% of the calls they respond to false alarms? Be nice if my job was spending 70% of the day screwing around in a lounge chair, and then only having to actually work 5% of the 30% of the times o actually had to get up and go for a drive.

/no, for God's sake, I'm not serious.

I snickered, and then I heard the "police the police" asshole from our local "town crime" board harassing us getting lunch at a grocery store for "wasting his tax dollars"

/i work for a private service

Should had told him his tax dollars was buying your lunch as well.

When I was a director for Key West I used to get this shiat all the time. I got so tired of it I did the math. Each tax paying citizen contributed approximately $3 a year to my salary, or about $0.0015 to my hourly rate. So it they pulled the "my taxes pay your salary" crap, I gave them all the time and attention that every penny of their tax contribution to my salary covered.

Hell, you pay taxes too, so your tax dollars funded your own salary.

Nope, I had a house in the lower keys, not in Key West proper, so my taxes went to Monroe County not Key West. Now if Key West had been paying me more, maybe I could have afforded a house on the island, then I would have been paying my own salary, or $3 towards it.


There's also sales tax.
 
2022-01-25 12:36:19 PM  
FTS. We out.
Firefighters saving lifes in reverse it just evil
Youtube eCNpLAsvw2g
 
2022-01-25 12:38:12 PM  

NM Volunteer: Someone Else's Alt: NM Volunteer: Someone Else's Alt: MythDragon: hardinparamedic: MythDragon: More pay for what?  Lounging around the firehouse eating chili and watching movies? Besides, aren't like 95% of the calls they respond to false alarms? Be nice if my job was spending 70% of the day screwing around in a lounge chair, and then only having to actually work 5% of the 30% of the times o actually had to get up and go for a drive.

/no, for God's sake, I'm not serious.

I snickered, and then I heard the "police the police" asshole from our local "town crime" board harassing us getting lunch at a grocery store for "wasting his tax dollars"

/i work for a private service

Should had told him his tax dollars was buying your lunch as well.

When I was a director for Key West I used to get this shiat all the time. I got so tired of it I did the math. Each tax paying citizen contributed approximately $3 a year to my salary, or about $0.0015 to my hourly rate. So it they pulled the "my taxes pay your salary" crap, I gave them all the time and attention that every penny of their tax contribution to my salary covered.

Hell, you pay taxes too, so your tax dollars funded your own salary.

Nope, I had a house in the lower keys, not in Key West proper, so my taxes went to Monroe County not Key West. Now if Key West had been paying me more, maybe I could have afforded a house on the island, then I would have been paying my own salary, or $3 towards it.

There's also sales tax.


Yep, but didn't shop or buy gas in Key West, was always cheaper up the keys. The only thing they would have gotten from me was the occasional restaurant tab.
 
2022-01-25 1:04:04 PM  
More relevant to the article than my previous complainy post:

At first glance, $13/hr for a firefighter with 13 years on the job seems outrageously low. However, after examining the town's demographics on Wikipedia:
-15000 residents, 5000 households
-per capita income of $10k
-median household income of $20k
I'd imagine that this department staffs at 24/48; that's 121 24-hour shifts: $38k base at 13/hr.

As they say, you can't get blood from a stone. The money has to come from somewhere, and this town doesn't seem to have it.  I think most people in most jobs should get paid better; I also think that for the fire service there's a danger of losing public support as your pay increases substantially past what the majority of people in your community earn.

I work for a financially distressed city. My pay is in the bottom 10% for fire departments in my state and the workload per member is in the top 10%. My base pay is about 2/3 that of a firefighter in the highest paid department.  Yeah, I like getting raises. But there's no way my city could digest paying us the way a posh, wealthy suburb pays their firefighters. And no way to reasonably justify making 3 or 4 times the household income of the community we serve. And we actually have big taxpayers - factories and other industry, business parks, commercial properties. It doesn't seem like the town in the article has much of that going on.  Unless they're getting lots of money from the state or county for the fire department, pushing for big raises can be a dangerous path.
 
2022-01-25 1:14:38 PM  

lizyrd: More relevant to the article than my previous complainy post:

At first glance, $13/hr for a firefighter with 13 years on the job seems outrageously low. However, after examining the town's demographics on Wikipedia:
-15000 residents, 5000 households
-per capita income of $10k
-median household income of $20k
I'd imagine that this department staffs at 24/48; that's 121 24-hour shifts: $38k base at 13/hr.

As they say, you can't get blood from a stone. The money has to come from somewhere, and this town doesn't seem to have it.  I think most people in most jobs should get paid better; I also think that for the fire service there's a danger of losing public support as your pay increases substantially past what the majority of people in your community earn.

I work for a financially distressed city. My pay is in the bottom 10% for fire departments in my state and the workload per member is in the top 10%. My base pay is about 2/3 that of a firefighter in the highest paid department.  Yeah, I like getting raises. But there's no way my city could digest paying us the way a posh, wealthy suburb pays their firefighters. And no way to reasonably justify making 3 or 4 times the household income of the community we serve. And we actually have big taxpayers - factories and other industry, business parks, commercial properties. It doesn't seem like the town in the article has much of that going on.  Unless they're getting lots of money from the state or county for the fire department, pushing for big raises can be a dangerous path.


One thing I an wondering though is whether the recipients of their service are entirely their town or people crossing back and forth. Are the citizens of bigger services receiving services from a smaller town?
 
2022-01-25 1:31:43 PM  

hoodiowithtudio: lizyrd: More relevant to the article than my previous complainy post:

At first glance, $13/hr for a firefighter with 13 years on the job seems outrageously low. However, after examining the town's demographics on Wikipedia:
-15000 residents, 5000 households
-per capita income of $10k
-median household income of $20k
I'd imagine that this department staffs at 24/48; that's 121 24-hour shifts: $38k base at 13/hr.

As they say, you can't get blood from a stone. The money has to come from somewhere, and this town doesn't seem to have it.  I think most people in most jobs should get paid better; I also think that for the fire service there's a danger of losing public support as your pay increases substantially past what the majority of people in your community earn.

I work for a financially distressed city. My pay is in the bottom 10% for fire departments in my state and the workload per member is in the top 10%. My base pay is about 2/3 that of a firefighter in the highest paid department.  Yeah, I like getting raises. But there's no way my city could digest paying us the way a posh, wealthy suburb pays their firefighters. And no way to reasonably justify making 3 or 4 times the household income of the community we serve. And we actually have big taxpayers - factories and other industry, business parks, commercial properties. It doesn't seem like the town in the article has much of that going on.  Unless they're getting lots of money from the state or county for the fire department, pushing for big raises can be a dangerous path.

One thing I an wondering though is whether the recipients of their service are entirely their town or people crossing back and forth. Are the citizens of bigger services receiving services from a smaller town?


All that I-10 traffic through Deming.  Plus the smaller communities out in Luna County probably turn to them for help as well as needed, when the volunteers are overwhelmed.
 
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