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(Some Guy) Hero The kids are better than all right - they are the volunteer EMT dept   (flexiblecouplings.co.in) divider line
    More: Hero, Emergency medical services, Ambulance, Emergency medical technician, Paramedic, Emergency service, Eric Roberts, New York City, Grayden Brunet  
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2083 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Jan 2022 at 9:15 AM (17 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-01-23 9:20:00 AM  
We had this article a few weeks ago, and a vibrant discussion on how farked up it is that firefighters and EMTs are unpaid in so many communities across the USA.
 
2022-01-23 9:24:02 AM  
December 15, 2021
 
2022-01-23 9:24:08 AM  
There are also unpaid volunteer "reserve" deputies out there.  They can't make arrests, and they are unpaid, but they get uniforms and guns and ballistic vests
 
2022-01-23 9:31:15 AM  
Honestly I would prefer an EMT that gets paid.
 
2022-01-23 9:33:47 AM  
If those rich Manhattanites who own all those vacation homes there had to pay for basic services they would not be so rich any more.
 
2022-01-23 9:36:58 AM  

Wasilla Hillbilly: Honestly I would prefer an EMT that gets paid.


Here your choices are unpaid or nobody. And no, the rich vacation residents aren't the ones keeping property taxes down. They don't vote in local elections.
 
2022-01-23 9:39:12 AM  
if you are a volunteer can you still be sued if you are negligent?
 
2022-01-23 9:42:50 AM  
Like I said the last time it's a tiny village you won't ever have the tax base for a full time professional ambulance service.
 
2022-01-23 9:47:37 AM  

solokumba: if you are a volunteer can you still be sued if you are negligent?


Yes
 
2022-01-23 9:52:52 AM  

NM Volunteer: There are also unpaid volunteer "reserve" deputies out there.  They can't make arrests, and they are unpaid, but they get uniforms and guns and ballistic vests


For some, that's the best part. Like sanctioned LARPing.
 
2022-01-23 10:01:24 AM  

solokumba: if you are a volunteer can you still be sued if you are negligent?


Usually not.

They are still performing government functions on behalf of the government so they are granted Sovereign immunity.

On top of that all 50 states have some version of good Samaritan law that provides legal and civil immunity to those who provide reasonable assistance.

So like if you help stabalize someone that is reasonable.

But if you attempt to perform open heart surgery and you have no experience as a surgeon, that is unreasonable.
 
2022-01-23 10:02:43 AM  

MythDragon: NM Volunteer: There are also unpaid volunteer "reserve" deputies out there.  They can't make arrests, and they are unpaid, but they get uniforms and guns and ballistic vests

For some, that's the best part. Like sanctioned LARPing.


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size


LIGHTNING BOLT!
 
2022-01-23 10:03:23 AM  
Déjà vu all over again
 
2022-01-23 10:07:45 AM  
Was this article written by an AI or something? Parts of it were just... off.
 
2022-01-23 10:12:12 AM  

solokumba: if you are a volunteer can you still be sued if you are negligent?


Yep, not sure if bragging about having a bunch of green workers is something to brag about or warn about.
 
2022-01-23 10:14:48 AM  

dkulprit: solokumba: if you are a volunteer can you still be sued if you are negligent?

Usually not.

They are still performing government functions on behalf of the government so they are granted Sovereign immunity.

On top of that all 50 states have some version of good Samaritan law that provides legal and civil immunity to those who provide reasonable assistance.

So like if you help stabalize someone that is reasonable.

But if you attempt to perform open heart surgery and you have no experience as a surgeon, that is unreasonable.


And then there is all this wonderful, huge, grey area in-between that lawyers love to argue about.
 
2022-01-23 10:25:14 AM  
I wonder if they have NREMT certifications?
Who's paying for that?
 
2022-01-23 10:27:19 AM  
Pfft. My grandfather left school in 8th grade and, using the money he made raising and selling watermelons, bought a beat up '29 Model-A with a rumble seat and a bad transmission, and drove it from Menomonie to Milwaukee in reverse, just so he could lie about his age and join the Army to jump out of planes to kill Nazis three at a time with his bare hands and celebrate afterwards with the cheap cigars the French women handed out with their home addresses written on them - or, so the family legend goes.
 
2022-01-23 10:32:14 AM  

dkulprit: solokumba: if you are a volunteer can you still be sued if you are negligent?

Usually not.

They are still performing government functions on behalf of the government so they are granted Sovereign immunity.

On top of that all 50 states have some version of good Samaritan law that provides legal and civil immunity to those who provide reasonable assistance.

So like if you help stabalize someone that is reasonable.

But if you attempt to perform open heart surgery and you have no experience as a surgeon, that is unreasonable.


Even if you could, no lawyer would take the case.  Young people in rural areas don't have any money and probably don't have insurance either.
 
2022-01-23 10:50:46 AM  

Barricaded Gunman: Was this article written by an AI or something? Parts of it were just... off.


Why do you assume that it was written by some intelligence, be it artificial or otherwise?
 
2022-01-23 11:10:59 AM  

awruk!: dkulprit: solokumba: if you are a volunteer can you still be sued if you are negligent?

Usually not.

They are still performing government functions on behalf of the government so they are granted Sovereign immunity.

On top of that all 50 states have some version of good Samaritan law that provides legal and civil immunity to those who provide reasonable assistance.

So like if you help stabalize someone that is reasonable.

But if you attempt to perform open heart surgery and you have no experience as a surgeon, that is unreasonable.

And then there is all this wonderful, huge, grey area in-between that lawyers love to argue about.


Yup.  The Grey area is "reasonable" as that is not clearly defined and cannot be.  The wonderful thing about that is that since they're goverent employees they have Sovereign immunity so the town would be sued.  It would require an illegal act, a violation of constitutional rights, or other types of violations to open them up as individuals to a suit.
 
2022-01-23 11:23:54 AM  

NM Volunteer: We had this article a few weeks ago, and a vibrant discussion on how farked up it is that firefighters and EMTs are unpaid in so many communities across the USA.


So i'm a volunteer fire fighter in my town. As a kid i also volunteered on our rescue squad.

I don't have a problem with it. Our town doesn't merit its own fire department. If the professional departments near us (who we do mutual aid with) had to size themselves to handle stupid call we get, it would be a huge expense, and possibly hinder response to something more serious. We aid them through both some funding, and helping out doing the charlie work when they have something serious or need some extra apparatus. Nobody has a gun to their head to be on their VFD or Volunteer EMT time. People doing it enjoy it, its a great way to be active and help in your community, and helps keep your property taxes lower. It also means a faster Weeners in many cases.

Also worth noting many of the people on our EMT and VFD are town workers or on the PD, and when they respond are still on the clock (or if after hours, get paid for it).
 
2022-01-23 11:27:30 AM  

solokumba: I wonder if they have NREMT certifications?
Who's paying for that?


In our town, and as far as i know, everywhere, the volunteer EMT's and Fire Department training is covered by the town. Even on the VFD we go to a real fire academy, have annual training we get a stipend for, training on new stuff, etc. In theory we can do what a professional can do.

Now that obviously isn't the case because we don't have the same level of continuous training and exposure to real life situations on anything approaching the basis that a town which needs a professional department would see, which, again, is why we will lean on them a bit the two or 3 times a year we have a legit real fire or the like.
 
2022-01-23 11:31:32 AM  

LineNoise: solokumba: I wonder if they have NREMT certifications?
Who's paying for that?

In our town, and as far as i know, everywhere, the volunteer EMT's and Fire Department training is covered by the town. Even on the VFD we go to a real fire academy, have annual training we get a stipend for, training on new stuff, etc. In theory we can do what a professional can do.

Now that obviously isn't the case because we don't have the same level of continuous training and exposure to real life situations on anything approaching the basis that a town which needs a professional department would see, which, again, is why we will lean on them a bit the two or 3 times a year we have a legit real fire or the like.


So are the EMT's certified by the National Registry?
 
2022-01-23 11:32:40 AM  

solokumba: if you are a volunteer can you still be sued if you are negligent?


The key word is negligent. If you make an honest mistake or bad call, no, you are typically indemnified and your town is going to back you up.

If you are drunk and driving the fire truck, or think it would be funny to spray someone with the firehose, then you are going to have problems. Same thing like a professional would.

Like i said above too, you just don't show up one day and say you want to be on the fire department. With us the person who wants to join will usually hang around doing grunt work for a few months and will be closely watched, so we can make sure they are committed and not a farkup. Then the higher ups will talk with the people who worked with them, and decide if they want to let the person join, before we blow a bunch of money on training, gear, etc for someone that is just going to flake, or we would have to tell to take a hike.
 
2022-01-23 11:38:42 AM  

solokumba: So are the EMT's certified by the National Registry?


I honestly couldn't tell you. I have an EMT card somewhere, no clue who issued it. It was issued by the state and i vaguely recall seeing something that it was nationally recognized.

They sent me to a class at the county college 2 nights a week and half a day on saturdays for a couple of months, i took a few tests, and tada. I have to complete certain things every few years to keep it valid, its usually like a days worth of work, some is online, some in person.

I'm not a good person to ask, because i don't really do EMT stuff, they just like us to all have it, and they paid for it, so never hurts to learn something and be prepared.
 
2022-01-23 12:03:44 PM  

RTOGUY: Like I said the last time it's a tiny village you won't ever have the tax base for a full time professional ambulance service.


I wonder if they're a part of a larger community that could easily subsidize the cost? No wait, that's evil socialism.
 
2022-01-23 12:09:13 PM  
They're teens, so we get to feel less guilty about them performing an essential service without pay.
 
2022-01-23 12:18:40 PM  

NM Volunteer: We had this article a few weeks ago, and a vibrant discussion on how farked up it is that firefighters and EMTs are unpaid in so many communities across the USA.


The discussion wasn't just about pay.  Teens and very young adults don't process emotional trauma as well as older adults, leaving them more prone to PTSD.
 
2022-01-23 12:19:44 PM  
Gives me hope for humanity. Not enough for our continued existence up but a glimmer of hope.
 
2022-01-23 12:23:00 PM  

Shakin_Haitian: RTOGUY: Like I said the last time it's a tiny village you won't ever have the tax base for a full time professional ambulance service.

I wonder if they're a part of a larger community that could easily subsidize the cost? No wait, that's evil socialism.


And in most cases they already are. Unless you are in a major city, your paramedics are going to be regional to some degree.

The EMT's around here are doing it for experience as they typically work their way up the system. Nobody is looking at it as a career choice.
 
2022-01-23 12:28:34 PM  
I also think some people are vastly overestimating the qualifications for an EMT. its a step beyond basic first aid and stabilization. If you want to be one, like i said, the classwork was on par with about a semester of community college. While they play an important part of things, they are not paramedics, doctors, etc.
 
2022-01-23 12:46:22 PM  
Why shouldn't emergency life-saving first aid be part of Drivers Ed in HS. We had to be retrained annually in the Navy. I was disappointed we weren't required to qualify annually at UPS consider we worked at an airport and I urged it be required for my 20 yr career with UPS. It made sense. It was a small airport with no medical staff on standby. Every business should require annual training to help save lives until the EMTs can arrive. It's 4 hours every year. The Red Cross, YMCA, and many other organizations will gladly provide training.
 
2022-01-23 1:11:01 PM  

Lurk Who's Talking: Why shouldn't emergency life-saving first aid be part of Drivers Ed in HS. We had to be retrained annually in the Navy. I was disappointed we weren't required to qualify annually at UPS consider we worked at an airport and I urged it be required for my 20 yr career with UPS. It made sense. It was a small airport with no medical staff on standby. Every business should require annual training to help save lives until the EMTs can arrive. It's 4 hours every year. The Red Cross, YMCA, and many other organizations will gladly provide training.


All cops should be certified in Basic Life Support but they aren't. Most don't even carry basic medical supplies in the squad car.

When Ahmaud Arbery was killed by the 3 nazis, the cop on the call never tried to lend aid. He just stood there and talked with the nazis. In court, he was asked why he did not render aid and he said he had no training.
 
2022-01-23 1:32:38 PM  

solokumba: All cops should be certified in Basic Life Support but they aren't. Most don't even carry basic medical supplies in the squad car.


This will depend heavily on where you live. All police officers in my town, and the towns around us as far as I know are required to have a current EMT card. They are usually the first on scene for a medical call or accident so it makes sense.

Also a year or two someone made a stink at the town budget meetings as to why the cops needed SUV's and couldn't drive around in something greener. The police pointed out, and dragged in all the equipment from the back of one of them. They are basically ambulances for all intents and purposes other than throwing a stretcher in one.

But of course you went right to the nazi angle, so i'm not sure why i'm even bothering pointing out realities.
 
2022-01-23 1:33:37 PM  
NO no no nono. This is not a "yay for the kids!" "The kids are alright" situation.Pu-LEASE!
This is a horrifying post-collapse dystopian story about people struggling to remain alive!
 
2022-01-23 1:34:05 PM  

Lurk Who's Talking: Why shouldn't emergency life-saving first aid be part of Drivers Ed in HS.


We do a shiatty job teaching driving to begin with. Also first aid, responding well in a stressful situation\crisis\emergency is not something everyone is capable of doing. If everyone was you wouldn't need half the emergency services we have.
 
2022-01-23 1:35:31 PM  

Austinoftx: NO no no nono. This is not a "yay for the kids!" "The kids are alright" situation.Pu-LEASE!
This is a horrifying post-collapse dystopian story about people struggling to remain alive!


Settle down francis. High school kids have been volunteering with first aid squads since well before i was a highschool kid almost 30 years ago.
 
2022-01-23 1:40:46 PM  

LineNoise: Also a year or two someone made a stink at the town budget meetings as to why the cops needed SUV's and couldn't drive around in something greener. The police pointed out, and dragged in all the equipment from the back of one of them. They are basically ambulances for all intents and purposes other than throwing a stretcher in one.


Plus, they are better for dirt roads and other high-clearance areas than Teslas.  And in a pinch, Facilities and Garage both have large gas tanks that can fill them up, in addition to gas stations
 
2022-01-23 1:58:24 PM  

NM Volunteer: There are also unpaid volunteer "reserve" deputies out there.  They can't make arrests, and they are unpaid, but they get uniforms and guns and ballistic vests


Again, this is a regional thing.

We do have auxilary policy by me. They will do stuff like traffic control for big events, or walk the crowd and be able to immediately contact the real police and know what the plan is, they have a car that ALMOST looks like a cop car that they can plop in an intersection to make sure everyone slows down. shiat like that.

They aren't going on busts or writing tickets, and the thought would be laughable if anyone suggested it.
 
2022-01-23 2:26:56 PM  

LineNoise: NM Volunteer: There are also unpaid volunteer "reserve" deputies out there.  They can't make arrests, and they are unpaid, but they get uniforms and guns and ballistic vests

Again, this is a regional thing.

We do have auxilary policy by me. They will do stuff like traffic control for big events, or walk the crowd and be able to immediately contact the real police and know what the plan is, they have a car that ALMOST looks like a cop car that they can plop in an intersection to make sure everyone slows down. shiat like that.

They aren't going on busts or writing tickets, and the thought would be laughable if anyone suggested it.


That sounds like the CSOs that some town police out here have, they have special uniforms and are often the first at an accident scene to block traffic.  But the Reserve Deputies that some counties have, they have guns and mandatory monthly training, just not arresting powers.  It's weird.
 
2022-01-23 3:09:29 PM  

NM Volunteer: That sounds like the CSOs


CSO's are a separate thing here in some communities. They are common in certain orthodox jewish or muslim communities (there is usually a equivalent to EMS as well). Same concept, they have limited policing powers, or for EMS are limited to certain types of calls.

Pros and cons to them and its a tough issue. On one hand it can act as a bridge or ensure someone gets help they need because they trust it coming from "their" community, vs the community at large. On the other hand there is a lot of abuse and corruption in the system, stuff doesn't always get reported as it should, and any attempt to try and clamp down on it or call it out gets immediately called anti-X.
 
2022-01-23 4:02:10 PM  
 
2022-01-23 5:40:34 PM  

dkulprit: awruk!: dkulprit: solokumba: if you are a volunteer can you still be sued if you are negligent?

Usually not.

They are still performing government functions on behalf of the government so they are granted Sovereign immunity.

On top of that all 50 states have some version of good Samaritan law that provides legal and civil immunity to those who provide reasonable assistance.

So like if you help stabalize someone that is reasonable.

But if you attempt to perform open heart surgery and you have no experience as a surgeon, that is unreasonable.

And then there is all this wonderful, huge, grey area in-between that lawyers love to argue about.

Yup.  The Grey area is "reasonable" as that is not clearly defined and cannot be.  The wonderful thing about that is that since they're goverent employees they have Sovereign immunity so the town would be sued.  It would require an illegal act, a violation of constitutional rights, or other types of violations to open them up as individuals to a suit.


How can they be considered employees when they're volunteering their services?  I hope laws cover volunteers in this situation, maybe people acting as agents of local gov't.s, paid or not.
 
2022-01-23 5:50:16 PM  

Spermbot: dkulprit: awruk!: dkulprit: solokumba: if you are a volunteer can you still be sued if you are negligent?

Usually not.

They are still performing government functions on behalf of the government so they are granted Sovereign immunity.

On top of that all 50 states have some version of good Samaritan law that provides legal and civil immunity to those who provide reasonable assistance.

So like if you help stabalize someone that is reasonable.

But if you attempt to perform open heart surgery and you have no experience as a surgeon, that is unreasonable.

And then there is all this wonderful, huge, grey area in-between that lawyers love to argue about.

Yup.  The Grey area is "reasonable" as that is not clearly defined and cannot be.  The wonderful thing about that is that since they're goverent employees they have Sovereign immunity so the town would be sued.  It would require an illegal act, a violation of constitutional rights, or other types of violations to open them up as individuals to a suit.

How can they be considered employees when they're volunteering their services?  I hope laws cover volunteers in this situation, maybe people acting as agents of local gov't.s, paid or not.


There are specific laws covering volunteer emergency responders in most states
 
2022-01-24 10:38:44 AM  

LineNoise: solokumba: I wonder if they have NREMT certifications?
Who's paying for that?

In our town, and as far as i know, everywhere, the volunteer EMT's and Fire Department training is covered by the town. Even on the VFD we go to a real fire academy, have annual training we get a stipend for, training on new stuff, etc. In theory we can do what a professional can do.

Now that obviously isn't the case because we don't have the same level of continuous training and exposure to real life situations on anything approaching the basis that a town which needs a professional department would see, which, again, is why we will lean on them a bit the two or 3 times a year we have a legit real fire or the like.


I disagree. We can do everything a professional can do. Maybe we might be rusty in a few spots for something you don't do often, but the training was is on par with professional departments.

True Story: Fairfax VA where the departments are hybrid (paid staff + volunteers). I went in to join when I moved down there and spoke with the chief of the paid guys. I had more qualifications than his paid staff.
 
2022-01-24 5:51:15 PM  

declan294: LineNoise: solokumba: I wonder if they have NREMT certifications?
Who's paying for that?

In our town, and as far as i know, everywhere, the volunteer EMT's and Fire Department training is covered by the town. Even on the VFD we go to a real fire academy, have annual training we get a stipend for, training on new stuff, etc. In theory we can do what a professional can do.

Now that obviously isn't the case because we don't have the same level of continuous training and exposure to real life situations on anything approaching the basis that a town which needs a professional department would see, which, again, is why we will lean on them a bit the two or 3 times a year we have a legit real fire or the like.

I disagree. We can do everything a professional can do. Maybe we might be rusty in a few spots for something you don't do often, but the training was is on par with professional departments.

True Story: Fairfax VA where the departments are hybrid (paid staff + volunteers). I went in to join when I moved down there and spoke with the chief of the paid guys. I had more qualifications than his paid staff.


There are volunteer departments that do things well - and are essentially "full time volunteer" positions with the same level of training and volume as paid departments.

And then there are volunteer departments that, if I suffered a medical emergency, I would crawl on my bloody stumps out of their response district before I called 911.

In nearly 18 years of doing high performance, high acuity EMS, I've seen both. And the later can cause a situation to go very, very wrong.
 
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