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(CNN)   "Hey, things are getting kind of spicy over here, can we just leave?"   (cnn.com) divider line
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    More: News, Vladimir Putin, Russia, State Department spokesperson, Ukrainian government, commercial flights, State Department official, State Department, US Secretary of State Antony Blinken  
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6634 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Jan 2022 at 2:26 PM (23 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



179 Comments     (+0 »)
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bostonguy [TotalFark]
2022-01-22 12:19:40 PM  
Ruh-roh.
 
ElPrimitivo
2022-01-22 12:32:18 PM  
d.newsweek.comView Full Size
 
ricochet4
2022-01-22 2:28:04 PM  
Chicken Kiev?

/got nothin'
 
Dafatone
2022-01-22 2:30:19 PM  
I think all this Ukraine stuff is a whole lot of nothing. I think it's going to continue to be a whole lot of nothing.

But this does seem like one of those first steps towards something. Would still bet on nothing, though.
 
Palined Parenthood
2022-01-22 2:30:26 PM  
Это должно означать, что что-то огромное вот-вот упадет. думаю в пятницу
 
Znuh [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-01-22 2:31:46 PM  
Twitter's lit up with reports that the American Embassy in Ukraine is being ordered to evacuate. 

We're off and running. Though, history illustrates we were in a World War with 1918's pandemic.

I hate living in these idiotic times.
 
extrafancy
2022-01-22 2:33:22 PM  
Let's not get all Benghazi over there
 
Chemlight Battery
2022-01-22 2:33:24 PM  
I'm not sure what everyone is so worried about. Putin won't do anything. Biden drew a red line.
 
justanothersumguy
2022-01-22 2:34:07 PM  
ummm.... Nice knowing y'all.  Loved the cats.
 
UltimaCS
2022-01-22 2:35:23 PM  

Dafatone: I think all this Ukraine stuff is a whole lot of nothing. I think it's going to continue to be a whole lot of nothing.

But this does seem like one of those first steps towards something. Would still bet on nothing, though.


By utilizing shock & awe to immediately immobilize a vastly technologically inferior enemy, we're able to have these terrorists wrangled up in no time flat.
 
EnderWiggnz [TotalFark]
2022-01-22 2:35:58 PM  

Znuh: Twitter's lit up with reports that the American Embassy in Ukraine is being ordered to evacuate. 

We're off and running. Though, history illustrates we were in a World War with 1918's pandemic.

I hate living in these idiotic times.


and remember, if this is what's getting out of a war zone, how bad is it really?
 
justanothersumguy
2022-01-22 2:38:22 PM  
Turner Doomsday Video
Youtube z6f7j1E61sM
 
cryinoutloud [BareFark]
2022-01-22 2:40:17 PM  
I'm so glad that we got out of Afghanistan, so that we can start another war cleanly.
 
GanjSmokr
2022-01-22 2:43:24 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
RasIanI
2022-01-22 2:43:42 PM  
I wonder if the Afghan departure is weighing on anyone's mind at State?

This does seem like an overreaction -- Kiev is a long way from what Putin would get up to in the east, most likely.

Pretty sure that he understands a full scale overrun of the country would be really, really bad.
 
Bennie Crabtree
2022-01-22 2:45:01 PM  
Today's NYT article about the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone is really interesting for a tabletop RPG/baordgame nerd. It's inside Ukraine's northern border. Doe Ukraine defend it from Russia and Belarus? Does it function like a moat? Should Ukraine abandon it, does NATO need to defend it? Does Russia treat it as an obstacle, a target, a hostage, or an acquisition?

Personally, I think Ukraine should scoop up the mud in slingshot sized handfuls and when Russia comes over the border, their war cry could be Bangarang!! NATO has to worry about any explosions inside the CEZ, though. And other than that...

This is why nuclear power is definitely not safe. There is no way to defend from disaster in wartime.
 
Lusiphur
2022-01-22 2:48:27 PM  

Znuh: Twitter's lit up with reports that the American Embassy in Ukraine is being ordered to evacuate. 

We're off and running. Though, history illustrates we were in a World War with 1918's pandemic.

I hate living in these idiotic times.


A world war requires a large system of alliances and assurances that drag the whole world into conflict. Russia's allies right now are... well, I guess they have Belarus. And theoretically Turkey is an ally, but they're also in NATO and an ally of the US. China might seem like they'd be on Russia's side, except that they've been eyeing Siberia for centuries, and it would be a great distraction from the corner they're painting themselves into with Taiwan (they've been making a giant deal about retaking it, but everyone knows they can't for at least another five years.)

So world war is right out. It's not happening. And frankly, I'm not sure why everyone is making this into such a huge deal. Yes, nukes are a threat, but Putin isn't going to end the world - he's got billions of reasons to keep living. So we're making a huge deal over a regional dustup in a place that's basically been regional dust-ups for decades.
 
The Bestest
2022-01-22 2:51:06 PM  

RasIanI: I wonder if the Afghan departure is weighing on anyone's mind at State?

This does seem like an overreaction -- Kiev is a long way from what Putin would get up to in the east, most likely.

Pretty sure that he understands a full scale overrun of the country would be really, really bad.


They're not worried about Russian tanks rolling into Kyiv (and really, even the most serious of Russian ground force pushes likely wouldn't advance beyond the southern Dnieper), they're more concerned about covert and/or terrorist actions.
 
El_Dan
2022-01-22 2:53:50 PM  

Znuh: Twitter's lit up with reports that the American Embassy in Ukraine is being ordered to evacuate. 

We're off and running. Though, history illustrates we were in a World War with 1918's pandemic.

I hate living in these idiotic times.


Countries that can shoot nuclear weapons at each other aren't going to have a world war.
 
Karma Chameleon
2022-01-22 2:55:07 PM  
I was starting to worry we may accidentally go a couple years without being engaged in a pointless war
 
hammettman
2022-01-22 2:55:29 PM  

RasIanI: I wonder if the Afghan departure is weighing on anyone's mind at State?

This does seem like an overreaction -- Kiev is a long way from what Putin would get up to in the east, most likely.

Pretty sure that he understands a full scale overrun of the country would be really, really bad.


You think so?  He's had 4 years of an American president acting as his fluffer.
 
justanothersumguy
2022-01-22 2:55:55 PM  

El_Dan: Znuh: Twitter's lit up with reports that the American Embassy in Ukraine is being ordered to evacuate. 

We're off and running. Though, history illustrates we were in a World War with 1918's pandemic.

I hate living in these idiotic times.

Countries that can shoot nuclear weapons at each other aren't going to have a world war.


ummm.... you have not studied history all that much have you....
 
Xaxor
2022-01-22 2:56:31 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: Today's NYT article about the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone is really interesting for a tabletop RPG/baordgame nerd. It's inside Ukraine's northern border. Doe Ukraine defend it from Russia and Belarus? Does it function like a moat? Should Ukraine abandon it, does NATO need to defend it? Does Russia treat it as an obstacle, a target, a hostage, or an acquisition?

Personally, I think Ukraine should scoop up the mud in slingshot sized handfuls and when Russia comes over the border, their war cry could be Bangarang!! NATO has to worry about any explosions inside the CEZ, though. And other than that...

This is why nuclear power is definitely not safe. There is no way to defend from disaster in wartime.


Thirty-five years of advancement in nuclear science says otherwise. It's much more ecologically friendly than coal or oil. No energy tech is perfect but the USA would be much better off if we transitioned twenty years ago.
 
justanothersumguy
2022-01-22 2:57:08 PM  
Allow me to fast forward a bit here.... -And the Chinese inherit the Earth.
 
RustyShock
2022-01-22 2:57:24 PM  
Putin is making such bold moves because something is terribly wrong with his regime and Russia, in general. Maybe it's because Russia is being decimated by COVID, maybe it's that Putin, himself, is terminally ill. Whatever it is, the former chief of the KGB is trying to create a lasting legacy by reincorporating the former Soviet states back into Russia.

PROTIP, VLAD: Josef Stalin's only lasting legacy is Best Korea.  So, good luck with that.
 
El_Dan
2022-01-22 2:59:38 PM  

justanothersumguy: El_Dan: Znuh: Twitter's lit up with reports that the American Embassy in Ukraine is being ordered to evacuate. 

We're off and running. Though, history illustrates we were in a World War with 1918's pandemic.

I hate living in these idiotic times.

Countries that can shoot nuclear weapons at each other aren't going to have a world war.

ummm.... you have not studied history all that much have you....


I must have missed that incident where nuclear powers started a world war.
 
justanothersumguy
2022-01-22 3:01:52 PM  

El_Dan: justanothersumguy: El_Dan: Znuh: Twitter's lit up with reports that the American Embassy in Ukraine is being ordered to evacuate. 

We're off and running. Though, history illustrates we were in a World War with 1918's pandemic.

I hate living in these idiotic times.

Countries that can shoot nuclear weapons at each other aren't going to have a world war.

ummm.... you have not studied history all that much have you....

I must have missed that incident where nuclear powers started a world war.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
El_Dan
2022-01-22 3:04:17 PM  

justanothersumguy: El_Dan: justanothersumguy: El_Dan: Znuh: Twitter's lit up with reports that the American Embassy in Ukraine is being ordered to evacuate. 

We're off and running. Though, history illustrates we were in a World War with 1918's pandemic.

I hate living in these idiotic times.

Countries that can shoot nuclear weapons at each other aren't going to have a world war.

ummm.... you have not studied history all that much have you....

I must have missed that incident where nuclear powers started a world war.

[Fark user image 850x618]


Guessing you don't have a real response.
 
Ishkur
2022-01-22 3:07:18 PM  
Col. Vindman was on MSNBC last night, and he seemed pretty adamant that diplomacy will not work and war is inevitable.

A good ole fashion pitched battles kind of war. The stuff America excels at.

It sounds morbid, but this could be the event that rescues Joe Biden's career. Every President knows that if they fail domestically, they can still win in foreign affairs and be alright. Just don't lose in both.
 
BorgiaGinz
2022-01-22 3:09:06 PM  

cryinoutloud: I'm so glad that we got out of Afghanistan, so that we can start another war cleanly.


Ignorant cynicism is lazy and tiresome. Exactly how is the US starting a war? Russia has already seized the Crimean peninsula, and is amassing troops and materiel on the border with Ukraine. Please explain how any of that is America's fault.
 
phalamir [TotalFark]
2022-01-22 3:09:55 PM  

justanothersumguy: El_Dan: justanothersumguy: El_Dan: Znuh: Twitter's lit up with reports that the American Embassy in Ukraine is being ordered to evacuate. 

We're off and running. Though, history illustrates we were in a World War with 1918's pandemic.

I hate living in these idiotic times.

Countries that can shoot nuclear weapons at each other aren't going to have a world war.

ummm.... you have not studied history all that much have you....

I must have missed that incident where nuclear powers started a world war.

[Fark user image 850x618]


Would you like to enlighten the class as to the world war started after 1945?  And specifically the world war started after 1945 at the instigation of a nuclear power.
 
justanothersumguy
2022-01-22 3:11:20 PM  

El_Dan: justanothersumguy: El_Dan: justanothersumguy: El_Dan: Znuh: Twitter's lit up with reports that the American Embassy in Ukraine is being ordered to evacuate. 

We're off and running. Though, history illustrates we were in a World War with 1918's pandemic.

I hate living in these idiotic times.

Countries that can shoot nuclear weapons at each other aren't going to have a world war.

ummm.... you have not studied history all that much have you....

I must have missed that incident where nuclear powers started a world war.

[Fark user image 850x618]

Guessing you don't have a real response.


Deterrents?
 
Ishkur
2022-01-22 3:13:30 PM  

Lusiphur: Yes, nukes are a threat, but Putin isn't going to end the world - he's got billions of reasons to keep living.


It's highly unlikely any power would use nukes offensively. They want to capture what they invade, not destroy it.

But they would be used defensively -- cross their borders and the GTW is on. The good news is America has no intention of invading and occupying Russia (many superpowers in the past have tried...and failed spectacularly). All they have to do is kick Russia out of Ukraine. So the war will remain localized, non-nuclear, and possibly very messy, on the scale of Kosovo.

There will be millions of refugees who will need new homes, and the Republicans might actually be willing to receive them since they'll be white.
 
Palined Parenthood
2022-01-22 3:13:57 PM  

Karma Chameleon: I was starting to worry we may accidentally go a couple years without being engaged in a pointless war


BERNIE LOST! GET OVER IT!
 
BorgiaGinz
2022-01-22 3:14:13 PM  

El_Dan: justanothersumguy: El_Dan: justanothersumguy: El_Dan: Znuh: Twitter's lit up with reports that the American Embassy in Ukraine is being ordered to evacuate. 

We're off and running. Though, history illustrates we were in a World War with 1918's pandemic.

I hate living in these idiotic times.

Countries that can shoot nuclear weapons at each other aren't going to have a world war.

ummm.... you have not studied history all that much have you....

I must have missed that incident where nuclear powers started a world war.

[Fark user image 850x618]

Guessing you don't have a real response.


The last world war was World War II, and there were no nuclear powers when Germany invaded Poland in 1939 (or 1937 if we are starting with the Japanese invasion of China). None of the wars America has fought since was a global conflict, aka a "world war,"  and none of the countries we fought from Korea to Afghanistan had nuclear weapons.
 
Bennie Crabtree
2022-01-22 3:14:19 PM  

Xaxor: Bennie Crabtree: Today's NYT article about the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone is really interesting for a tabletop RPG/baordgame nerd. It's inside Ukraine's northern border. Doe Ukraine defend it from Russia and Belarus? Does it function like a moat? Should Ukraine abandon it, does NATO need to defend it? Does Russia treat it as an obstacle, a target, a hostage, or an acquisition?

Personally, I think Ukraine should scoop up the mud in slingshot sized handfuls and when Russia comes over the border, their war cry could be Bangarang!! NATO has to worry about any explosions inside the CEZ, though. And other than that...

This is why nuclear power is definitely not safe. There is no way to defend from disaster in wartime.

Thirty-five years of advancement in nuclear science says otherwise. It's much more ecologically friendly than coal or oil. No energy tech is perfect but the USA would be much better off if we transitioned twenty years ago.


35 years of advancement doesn't protect during wartime.
 
IRestoreFurniture
2022-01-22 3:15:06 PM  
Anyone think this is just saber rattling by pootie poot be sure he lost his bestie?

Maybe he'll back off but only if they allow Trump to be the diplomat.  And Trump gets his "I alnoe" moment?


Idunno.  I'm not conspiracy me nded but that seems like the ham handed kind of scheme I can see happening.
 
IRestoreFurniture
2022-01-22 3:16:11 PM  

IRestoreFurniture: Anyone think this is just saber rattling by pootie poot be sure he lost his bestie?

Maybe he'll back off but only if they allow Trump to be the diplomat.  And Trump gets his "I alnoe" moment?


Idunno.  I'm not conspiracy me nded but that seems like the ham handed kind of scheme I can see happening.


My phone hates me.


New phone. New keyboard.  Old fingers.
 
fifthofzen [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2022-01-22 3:16:22 PM  

Ishkur: Col. Vindman was on MSNBC last night, and he seemed pretty adamant that diplomacy will not work and war is inevitable.


A good ole fashion pitched battles kind of war. The stuff America excels at.

It sounds morbid, but this could be the event that rescues Joe Biden's career. Every President knows that if they fail domestically, they can still win in foreign affairs and be alright. Just don't lose in both.

Before TFG and covid, I would have agreed. But now? I half expect Fox News et al, and the Republcan party to support Putin.
 
DarkSoulNoHope [TotalFark]
2022-01-22 3:18:42 PM  

justanothersumguy: [YouTube video: Turner Doomsday Video]


End of Civilization Video
Youtube qzhPzHhnFl0

/We're advising all our clients to invest in canned food and shotguns!
 
exPFCWintergreen
2022-01-22 3:19:40 PM  

Dafatone: I think all this Ukraine stuff is a whole lot of nothing. I think it's going to continue to be a whole lot of nothing.

But this does seem like one of those first steps towards something. Would still bet on nothing, though.


Keeping the stakes low enough that the rest of the world doesn't feel the need to do more than send out bunch of strongly-worded letters would serve them well.

Most likely result is a smash and grab operation where the Russian military solidifies control of what their puppets and proxies are already sitting on Ukraine plus any adjacent transportation and industrial infrastructure within arms reach. The complexity and difficulty of any campaign escalates sharply from there and it's not a bad bet that the Russian military simply isn't up for it. Any failure risks exposing to what degree Russia's endemic internal rot has undermined its own military.

If they want to make a land bridge to Crimea, they will need to invade and occupy the large urban centers on the way. That risks getting bogged down doing urban counter-insurgency warfare while piling on international fallout from the inevitable civilian casualties and humanitarian crisis they will cause on top of what they will get for invading en masse in the first place.
 
El_Dan
2022-01-22 3:20:03 PM  

justanothersumguy: El_Dan: justanothersumguy: El_Dan: justanothersumguy: El_Dan: Znuh: Twitter's lit up with reports that the American Embassy in Ukraine is being ordered to evacuate. 

We're off and running. Though, history illustrates we were in a World War with 1918's pandemic.

I hate living in these idiotic times.

Countries that can shoot nuclear weapons at each other aren't going to have a world war.

ummm.... you have not studied history all that much have you....

I must have missed that incident where nuclear powers started a world war.

[Fark user image 850x618]

Guessing you don't have a real response.

Deterrents?


That is a dumb comparison and you need to explain it if you want a response other than a funny vote.
 
phalamir [TotalFark]
2022-01-22 3:21:00 PM  

justanothersumguy: El_Dan: justanothersumguy: El_Dan: justanothersumguy: El_Dan: Znuh: Twitter's lit up with reports that the American Embassy in Ukraine is being ordered to evacuate. 

We're off and running. Though, history illustrates we were in a World War with 1918's pandemic.

I hate living in these idiotic times.

Countries that can shoot nuclear weapons at each other aren't going to have a world war.

ummm.... you have not studied history all that much have you....

I must have missed that incident where nuclear powers started a world war.

[Fark user image 850x618]

Guessing you don't have a real response.

Deterrents?


Machine guns are not even in the same galactic cluster as nuclear weapons.  A machine gun doesn't burn an entire urban area in a fraction of a second, which is as minimalist as you can get with a nuke.  And people will toss out several times the number needed to wipe us all off the face of the Earth.  Nuclear weapons are deterrents because they are a suicide pact.  You can't win a nuclear war unless being dead is you idea of winning.  No one walks away from a nuclear exchange.  No one.  Not even little tribes in the Amazon Basin.  Unicellular life might survive, but otherwise, it's all gone.  At no point were machine guns even conceived of as scything the planet clean in an hour or so.
 
fsbilly
2022-01-22 3:21:33 PM  

ricochet4: Chicken Kiev?

/got nothin'


More like Kiev chickens! Amirite?
 
Fiatlux
2022-01-22 3:21:47 PM  

fifthofzen: Ishkur: Col. Vindman was on MSNBC last night, and he seemed pretty adamant that diplomacy will not work and war is inevitable.

A good ole fashion pitched battles kind of war. The stuff America excels at.

It sounds morbid, but this could be the event that rescues Joe Biden's career. Every President knows that if they fail domestically, they can still win in foreign affairs and be alright. Just don't lose in both.

Before TFG and covid, I would have agreed. But now? I half expect Fox News et al, and the Republican party to support Putin.


No halfies. They are all in and have been for a while.
 
Ishkur
2022-01-22 3:24:27 PM  

fifthofzen: Before TFG and covid, I would have agreed. But now? I half expect Fox News et al, and the Republcan party to support Putin.


And there were American fascist groups in the 30s who urged Roosevelt to join the Axis powers.

That all stops (and the dissidents arrested for sedition) when America declares war and picks a side.

/declaring war might be one of the few things Congress can still vote unanimously on. Not even the Republicans will vote down an actual shooty war
 
Gestalt
2022-01-22 3:24:45 PM  

Ishkur: Col. Vindman was on MSNBC last night, and he seemed pretty adamant that diplomacy will not work and war is inevitable.

A good ole fashion pitched battles kind of war. The stuff America excels at.

It sounds morbid, but this could be the event that rescues Joe Biden's career. Every President knows that if they fail domestically, they can still win in foreign affairs and be alright. Just don't lose in both.


The only downside of us razing St. Petersburg after a failed Russian offensive in Ukraine is we may lose a few pro-Putin commenters on this board.
 
justanothersumguy
2022-01-22 3:26:31 PM  

El_Dan: justanothersumguy: El_Dan: justanothersumguy: El_Dan: justanothersumguy: El_Dan: Znuh: Twitter's lit up with reports that the American Embassy in Ukraine is being ordered to evacuate. 

We're off and running. Though, history illustrates we were in a World War with 1918's pandemic.

I hate living in these idiotic times.

Countries that can shoot nuclear weapons at each other aren't going to have a world war.

ummm.... you have not studied history all that much have you....

I must have missed that incident where nuclear powers started a world war.

[Fark user image 850x618]

Guessing you don't have a real response.

Deterrents?

That is a dumb comparison and you need to explain it if you want a response other than a funny vote.


Fark user imageView Full Size

I can't do it.  It is just too obvious.  Can someone with a bit of insight carry on?
 
ZMugg [TotalFark]
2022-01-22 3:27:18 PM  

justanothersumguy: Allow me to fast forward a bit here.... -And the Chinese inherit the Earth.


*ts* *ts* *ts*
E AAA E AAA C GGG CG D
E AAA E AAA C G
*biddly  biddly batti batti buddly buddly booti booti*
 
justanothersumguy
2022-01-22 3:28:08 PM  

phalamir: justanothersumguy: El_Dan: justanothersumguy: El_Dan: justanothersumguy: El_Dan: Znuh: Twitter's lit up with reports that the American Embassy in Ukraine is being ordered to evacuate. 

We're off and running. Though, history illustrates we were in a World War with 1918's pandemic.

I hate living in these idiotic times.

Countries that can shoot nuclear weapons at each other aren't going to have a world war.

ummm.... you have not studied history all that much have you....

I must have missed that incident where nuclear powers started a world war.

[Fark user image 850x618]

Guessing you don't have a real response.

Deterrents?

Machine guns are not even in the same galactic cluster as nuclear weapons.  A machine gun doesn't burn an entire urban area in a fraction of a second, which is as minimalist as you can get with a nuke.  And people will toss out several times the number needed to wipe us all off the face of the Earth.  Nuclear weapons are deterrents because they are a suicide pact.  You can't win a nuclear war unless being dead is you idea of winning.  No one walks away from a nuclear exchange.  No one.  Not even little tribes in the Amazon Basin.  Unicellular life might survive, but otherwise, it's all gone.  At no point were machine guns even conceived of as scything the planet clean in an hour or so.


I am sure your point is very comforting to you.
 
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