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(Variety)   Appeals court rules that Scientology contracts do not necessarily last one billion years   (variety.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Appeal, First Amendment to the United States Constitution, Danny Masterson's accusers, religious arbitration panel, Church of Scientology, church members, Contract, That '70s Show  
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2290 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 21 Jan 2022 at 3:20 PM (16 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



38 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-01-21 12:12:47 PM  
In the suit, the women alleged that Scientology has a rule forbidding members from reporting other members to the police. Those who do so can be subjected to "Fair Game" tactics

What a charming organization.
 
2022-01-21 12:32:17 PM  
Forced arbitration is a tactic for folks who have absolutely NOTHING to hide, right?
 
2022-01-21 1:25:02 PM  
The most shocking thing is that a lower court agreed with the Church of Xenu.
 
2022-01-21 3:30:47 PM  
fark Scientology.
 
2022-01-21 3:32:51 PM  
"Every church, temple, and mosque should be troubled by this decision as it singles out religious organizations for disparate treatment under contract law...."

That should be easy to fix. Forced arbitration is a tool of evil people.
 
2022-01-21 3:39:30 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: In the suit, the women alleged that Scientology has a rule forbidding members from reporting other members to the police. Those who do so can be subjected to "Fair Game" tactics

What a charming organization.


An arbitration clause should be invalid when criminal activity is involved.
 
2022-01-21 3:40:44 PM  
All arbitration clauses should be void when you are no longer a member of the organization, whether leaving a religion or an employer.

Arbitration clauses in a purchasing agreement should be seen as a caveat emptor.
 
2022-01-21 3:43:22 PM  

hubiestubert: Forced arbitration is a tactic for folks who have absolutely NOTHING to hide, right?


I'm going to put in a plug here for the documentary "Hot Coffee", which is about the many ways our rights to sue corporations for bad behavior are under attack.  The name comes from an infamous case that has often been used as an example of "courts running wild", a case where a woman sued McDonalds after receiving 3rd degree burns from spilling coffee in her lap and won $2.86M. (Warning: there is some graphic imagery of the results of the burn, which required her to get skin grafts.). But there's a big section of it on forced arbitration.  In most states, the arbitrator is picked and paid for by the company you're trying to sue, and do you think they're going to be stupid enough to alienate where they make their money from?
 
2022-01-21 3:50:02 PM  
Even for a cult/religion, Scientology is scummy.
 
2022-01-21 3:57:23 PM  

Mr_Vimes: Even for a cult/religion, Scientology is scummy.


Even Jim Jones gave out Flavor Aid.
 
2022-01-21 4:13:53 PM  
This is good news, I can finally get out of those endorsement contracts I signed when when I was a race car driver on Venus!
 
2022-01-21 4:14:23 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Mr_Vimes: Even for a cult/religion, Scientology is scummy.

Even Jim Jones gave out Flavor Aid.


Arsehole only sprang for the grape, as well. That's a dead giveaway.
 
2022-01-21 4:48:12 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-21 4:53:46 PM  
It's nice to see their phony claims of religiosity bite them in the butt.

Ecclesiastical courts have no power over nonbelievers, Hyde.
 
2022-01-21 4:57:14 PM  
The accusers alleged that they were surveilled, their email was hacked, their phones were tapped, their pets were killed, they were run off the road, their cars were broken into, and that trees in their yard were poisoned, among other things.

So church of scientology will go all fatal attraction on your ass
 
2022-01-21 5:02:49 PM  
FTFA:  William Forman, who represents the Church of Scientology...

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-21 5:17:06 PM  

Lillya: The accusers alleged that they were surveilled, their email was hacked, their phones were tapped, their pets were killed, they were run off the road, their cars were broken into, and that trees in their yard were poisoned, among other things.

So church of scientology will go all fatal attraction on your ass


You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.
 
2022-01-21 6:41:44 PM  

Gonzo317: Marcus Aurelius: In the suit, the women alleged that Scientology has a rule forbidding members from reporting other members to the police. Those who do so can be subjected to "Fair Game" tactics

What a charming organization.

An arbitration clause should be invalid when criminal activity is involved.


Who decides criminal activity?  The arbitrator?
 
2022-01-21 6:45:09 PM  

Gonzo317: An arbitration clause should be invalid when criminal activity is involved.


It is.

You are under no obligation whatsoever to the provisions of any contract of any kind when it comes to reporting or seeking redress regarding an actual crime.  Even for civil matters this is true a lot of the time, and even when it's something that would be essentially a mediated negotiation in a civil court various things can invalidate the enforceability of an arbitration clause fairly quickly.

The reason this even survived the initial court is that

(1) this is regarding an entirely civil matter of the women alleging harassment below the criminal level

and

(2) the women are the plaintiffs here, so there's a lot of extra leeway given to the accused.

If this was regarding the Masterson accusations themselves, or specific reports of actual crimes, this bullshiat wouldn't even merit the minimal level of respect involved in actually pointing out why the contract itself is invalid; the validity of the contract wouldn't matter.

// You'd be surprised how many people you have to sit down and slowly explain "you cannot have a contract term requiring something explicitly illegal" to in very small words.  Though I guess my involvement in contract law mostly comes by way of the housing industry, so there was probably a lot more unmitigated mask-off Evil involved than how most non-lawyers gain experience with writing contracts and charters and such.
 
2022-01-21 6:52:44 PM  

HempHead: Who decides criminal activity?  The arbitrator?


The DA, eventually, in most cases.

Or, more immediately, the person reporting the crime, at the point where they choose to report it to the police or other relevant enforcement authority.

Once there is an actual report of a crime involved, contract stipulations immediately have 0% relevance to all elements of the legal process from that point onward.

If anyone needs clarity on why I'm hammering on this more than seems reasonable, it's because a lot of crimes (especially financial crimes) go unreported because people think that their financial security would be on the line for reporting them.  NDAs etc are a paper tiger that keeps a lot of people from reporting serious shiat like wage theft, rape, sexual harassment in general, and so on, and if you don't report these things the next victim often gets it worse.
 
2022-01-21 6:52:50 PM  

pigeonstopper: fark Scientology.


BUT WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES?!?!

/ That is sarcasm
// Despite the diverse and distasteful rogue's gallery of villains I have encountered on Fark, I don't think I've ever seen anyone actually promote Scientology
 
2022-01-21 7:59:03 PM  
I'll admit, I had to google this case to figure out WHY Scientology thought they could force arbitration for a rape case, but this isn't about the rape case. This is a civil suit about the church's behavior AFTER they filed complaints in the rape case. The rape case is a criminal trial, this is a civil suit. The article could have been a little clearer for us non-lawyers.
 
2022-01-21 8:07:44 PM  
It would be nice if the Feds could find the will to break Scientology like they did with the Mafia.
 
2022-01-21 8:29:52 PM  

UNC_Samurai: It would be nice if the Feds could find the will to break Scientology like they did with the Mafia.


The whole "religion" thing ties their hands (unless, of course, they find out the LDS has been stockpiling automatic firearms and massive quantities of ammunition, in which case they call up BATFE and ask them to do a repeat of Waco, only not by accident this time).
 
2022-01-21 8:29:59 PM  
Masterson's a piece of shiat.

I hope he gets the book thrown at him.
 
2022-01-21 9:00:03 PM  
Why the fark did the lower court go along with the scientology argument and have to be appealed to a higher court?
 
2022-01-21 9:21:12 PM  
hehehe

Jesus Christ.
 
2022-01-21 9:28:39 PM  
Good.
 
2022-01-21 9:49:10 PM  

American-Irish eyes: Why the fark did the lower court go along with the scientology argument and have to be appealed to a higher court?


Money, probably.

There is also the possibility that the judge that handed down the original decision is a fundie Christian, and *liked* the idea of binding members of a religion/church to arbitration for the rest of eternity.

In fact, with the publicity this case has received, I fully expect *other* churches to try this. Mark my words - this kind of case will end up in front of the Supreme Court at some point. Conservatives would *love* to be able to make churches completely above the law.
 
2022-01-21 9:49:27 PM  
i.insider.comView Full Size
 
2022-01-21 9:55:38 PM  

Two16: [Fark user image image 320x218]


Been a long time since I've seen that version

Stolen.
 
2022-01-21 10:00:01 PM  
I LOL'd that the lawyer was named Forman.
 
2022-01-21 10:06:29 PM  

Jim_Callahan: HempHead: Who decides criminal activity?  The arbitrator?

The DA, eventually, in most cases.

Or, more immediately, the person reporting the crime, at the point where they choose to report it to the police or other relevant enforcement authority.

Once there is an actual report of a crime involved, contract stipulations immediately have 0% relevance to all elements of the legal process from that point onward.

If anyone needs clarity on why I'm hammering on this more than seems reasonable, it's because a lot of crimes (especially financial crimes) go unreported because people think that their financial security would be on the line for reporting them.  NDAs etc are a paper tiger that keeps a lot of people from reporting serious shiat like wage theft, rape, sexual harassment in general, and so on, and if you don't report these things the next victim often gets it worse.


That's a very low bar.
 
2022-01-21 10:14:27 PM  
A billion years is a long time to get raped by Danny Masterson. And what happens if, after a billion years, you find out that every cast member of That 70's Show gets to rape you for a billion years, and you have to put up with being raped by Fez, and Bob, for billions of years, just waiting for Mila Kunis, but then you find out the deal doesn't include Mila or even Laura Prepon and then you're left to ponder that, while Kitty Forman rapes your brains out for a billion years and then it's on to Red, and he decides to stick his foot up your ass for a billion years, while raping you, and it just goes on. What a horrible religion.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2022-01-22 5:06:34 AM  
Damn.  Scientology makes me so sad, and sad for the people involved with it.  There are actually only about 20,000 of them, but that is 20,000 too many.

I hate things that rob people of their minds and ability to think rationally.  It's like never being able to reach your full height, have all your teeth come in, or even recognize yourself in the mirror for who you are.  It's a chip in your brain, control was always the objective, and it's repulsive and sick.
 
2022-01-22 4:07:31 PM  

Walker: The most shocking thing is that a lower court agreed with the Church of Xenu.


What's really shocking is the HIGHER court agreed with them, if the conduct is during the time of the contract. Even if that conduct is rape, apparently.

But the appeals panel held that the claims in the lawsuit arose from conduct that occurred after the women left the church, and withdrew their consent to be governed by religious arbitration.

I guess if you give consent and the church murders you, your relatives have to use arbitration.
 
2022-01-22 4:54:26 PM  

Christian Bale: Walker: The most shocking thing is that a lower court agreed with the Church of Xenu.

What's really shocking is the HIGHER court agreed with them, if the conduct is during the time of the contract. Even if that conduct is rape, apparently.

But the appeals panel held that the claims in the lawsuit arose from conduct that occurred after the women left the church, and withdrew their consent to be governed by religious arbitration.

I guess if you give consent and the church murders you, your relatives have to use arbitration.


In Scientology, you come back with a new body, so you can use the arbitration after you are murdered.
 
2022-01-22 8:47:00 PM  

AstroJesus: A billion years is a long time to get raped by Danny Masterson. And what happens if, after a billion years, you find out that every cast member of That 70's Show gets to rape you for a billion years, and you have to put up with being raped by Fez, and Bob, for billions of years, just waiting for Mila Kunis, but then you find out the deal doesn't include Mila or even Laura Prepon and then you're left to ponder that, while Kitty Forman rapes your brains out for a billion years and then it's on to Red, and he decides to stick his foot up your ass for a billion years, while raping you, and it just goes on. What a horrible religion.


Umm, where are the Jesus in America and your own private planet themes?

Hard pass.

Oh shiat, Scientology? Sorry, I thought it was that Latter Day Saints thing.

Yeah, the whole Thetan and other shiat is wild.
 
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