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(MSN)   And so it begins. Tesla driver is first to face felony vehicular manslaughter charges while car's driver-assistance software was engaged   (msn.com) divider line
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759 clicks; posted to STEM » on 21 Jan 2022 at 5:42 AM (17 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-01-21 6:01:12 AM  
I wondered why the tag was a plug, and then it struck me
 
2022-01-21 6:16:43 AM  
Many Tesla drivers are too farking dumb to realize that there are five levels to automotive autonomy and only at level 5 can you trust the vehicle to steer itself unassisted. Teslas are level two or three at best.

Oh and Teslas are garbage cars. They dominate the EV market only because they are almost the only choice.

Give it a few years and Tesla will collapse.
 
2022-01-21 6:24:27 AM  
I love my Tesla, especially compared to the BMW X5 it replaced, and there is no way I'd trust the car to drive itself.  The people that do are complete idiots.  Also, I bet they lose this suit.  The car constantly warns you to pay attention.  My bet is they were ignoring those warnings.
 
2022-01-21 6:35:45 AM  
Police said the Tesla Model S driven by Riad was moving at a high speed when it exited a freeway and ran a red light, striking a Honda Civic on Dec. 29, 2019.

Odd. It shouldn't do that. Autopilot slows down when exiting the freeway and it tries to stop for every damn light, even green ones. That seems a little aggressive for Autopilot. Maybe the occupant of that particular car was Sarah Connor.
 
2022-01-21 6:40:52 AM  

maniacbastard: Many Tesla drivers are too farking dumb to realize that there are five levels to automotive autonomy and only at level 5 can you trust the vehicle to steer itself unassisted. Teslas are level two or three at best.

Oh and Teslas are garbage cars. They dominate the EV market only because they are almost the only choice.

Give it a few years and Tesla will collapse.


They're actually really great EVs. Europeans have dozens of options and they still mostly choose Teslas.

They're incredibly efficient, suffer little degradation, and are very convenient as a primary vehicle. There are other great EVs, but if efficiency and range are a concern, then there's pretty much just Tesla.
 
2022-01-21 6:47:18 AM  
Don't worry.  By 2026 all new cars will have a remote kill switch the police can engage to stop this sort of thing.

No, I'm not kidding.
 
2022-01-21 7:16:35 AM  

dready zim: I wondered why the tag was a plug, and then it struck me


Ooooh, well plaid. Well plaid indeed!
 
2022-01-21 7:17:25 AM  

dready zim: I wondered why the tag was a plug, and then it struck me


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-21 7:22:35 AM  
Insurance companies will end charging a dummy tax for people who refuse to watch the road. All cars are going to end up having non internet-based driver focused cameras.
 
2022-01-21 7:24:13 AM  

Likwit: maniacbastard: Many Tesla drivers are too farking dumb to realize that there are five levels to automotive autonomy and only at level 5 can you trust the vehicle to steer itself unassisted. Teslas are level two or three at best.

Oh and Teslas are garbage cars. They dominate the EV market only because they are almost the only choice.

Give it a few years and Tesla will collapse.

They're actually really great EVs. Europeans have dozens of options and they still mostly choose Teslas.

They're incredibly efficient, suffer little degradation, and are very convenient as a primary vehicle. There are other great EVs, but if efficiency and range are a concern, then there's pretty much just Tesla.


I live in Colorado and for me they are impractical. The range is too short for weekends in the mountains away from infrastructure.

The battery in a Tesla is an 18650 array that is very hard to recycle

Most of Elon's 'innovations' are lifted from others without giving them credit and the guy has gone from a cool guy to a total asshole.

So my bone to pick is hard with phony stark and half with his products.

And don't get me started on starship....
 
2022-01-21 7:25:39 AM  
"Riad, a 27-year-old limousine driver"

What the fark??
 
2022-01-21 7:33:45 AM  
Thought
I wonder if they will try and pull Musk into the suit
It could be argued that the term "Autopilot" led the driver to believe the system was capable of something it wasn't, and what spoiled brat edgeloard freaking insists that they keep calling it that.
 
2022-01-21 7:44:57 AM  

maniacbastard: Likwit: maniacbastard: Many Tesla drivers are too farking dumb to realize that there are five levels to automotive autonomy and only at level 5 can you trust the vehicle to steer itself unassisted. Teslas are level two or three at best.

Oh and Teslas are garbage cars. They dominate the EV market only because they are almost the only choice.

Give it a few years and Tesla will collapse.

They're actually really great EVs. Europeans have dozens of options and they still mostly choose Teslas.

They're incredibly efficient, suffer little degradation, and are very convenient as a primary vehicle. There are other great EVs, but if efficiency and range are a concern, then there's pretty much just Tesla.

I live in Colorado and for me they are impractical. The range is too short for weekends in the mountains away from infrastructure.

The battery in a Tesla is an 18650 array that is very hard to recycle

Most of Elon's 'innovations' are lifted from others without giving them credit and the guy has gone from a cool guy to a total asshole.

So my bone to pick is hard with phony stark and half with his products.

And don't get me started on starship....


Elon has always been an asshole.

DEBUNKING ELON MUSK Pt1 (1080p)
Youtube c-FGwDDc-s8
 
2022-01-21 7:49:59 AM  

baka-san: Thought
I wonder if they will try and pull Musk into the suit
It could be argued that the term "Autopilot" led the driver to believe the system was capable of something it wasn't, and what spoiled brat edgeloard freaking insists that they keep calling it that.


Remember that first self-driving accident, where the bicyclist in Arizona was killed?  I don't know if the woman driving could have avoided that or not, but she was looking at a video on her phone when the car hit the woman.
Because there were cameras inside the car, too, watching HER.
 
2022-01-21 8:02:27 AM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Insurance companies will end charging a dummy tax for people who refuse to watch the road. All cars are going to end up having non internet-based driver focused cameras.


GM already has that in their Supercruise system.  Interior camera watching the driver's eyes to make sure they're paying attention to the road.
 
2022-01-21 8:05:10 AM  

cryinoutloud: baka-san: Thought
I wonder if they will try and pull Musk into the suit
It could be argued that the term "Autopilot" led the driver to believe the system was capable of something it wasn't, and what spoiled brat edgeloard freaking insists that they keep calling it that.

Remember that first self-driving accident, where the bicyclist in Arizona was killed?  I don't know if the woman driving could have avoided that or not, but she was looking at a video on her phone when the car hit the woman.
Because there were cameras inside the car, too, watching HER.


Not saying it would work, just wondering if they will try that move.

Afluneza worked, white flour boy got off, if you are the defense you might think it's worth a shot
 
2022-01-21 8:17:14 AM  

baka-san: Thought
I wonder if they will try and pull Musk into the suit
It could be argued that the term "Autopilot" led the driver to believe the system was capable of something it wasn't, and what spoiled brat edgeloard freaking insists that they keep calling it that.


Careful, you'll summon the Muskovites who will insist up and down that the public knows and understands that "autopilot" just means something that keeps a plane level and flying in a straight line, and that the word hasn't entered the popular lexicon to mean "doing things automatically on its own", so there can't be ANY possible confusion caused my the repeated use of the term.
 
2022-01-21 8:20:18 AM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Insurance companies will end charging a dummy tax for people who refuse to watch the road. All cars are going to end up having non internet-based driver focused cameras.


Or...*or*...the Fark Tech Crowd's insistence that self-driving would become de-facto required is just a techbro pipe dream and human-driven cars will always be held as the standard.
 
2022-01-21 8:24:36 AM  
Elon invented reckless driving, you know.
 
2022-01-21 8:36:29 AM  

maniacbastard: Likwit: maniacbastard: Many Tesla drivers are too farking dumb to realize that there are five levels to automotive autonomy and only at level 5 can you trust the vehicle to steer itself unassisted. Teslas are level two or three at best.

Oh and Teslas are garbage cars. They dominate the EV market only because they are almost the only choice.

Give it a few years and Tesla will collapse.

They're actually really great EVs. Europeans have dozens of options and they still mostly choose Teslas.

They're incredibly efficient, suffer little degradation, and are very convenient as a primary vehicle. There are other great EVs, but if efficiency and range are a concern, then there's pretty much just Tesla.

I live in Colorado and for me they are impractical. The range is too short for weekends in the mountains away from infrastructure.

The battery in a Tesla is an 18650 array that is very hard to recycle

Most of Elon's 'innovations' are lifted from others without giving them credit and the guy has gone from a cool guy to a total asshole.

So my bone to pick is hard with phony stark and half with his products.

And don't get me started on starship....


Yes, I'm sure you're super ::concerned:: about Tesla battery recyclability.

For most people, even in Colorado, they're plenty practical. And if you don't think there are chargers up in the mountains I question your Colorado credentials. Crunchies love EVs and they have a lot of money. There's destination chargers all over the mountain areas, superchargers in Vale, Glenwood Springs, Silverthirne, Poncha Springs, etc. You can do plenty in Colorado with one.
 
2022-01-21 8:39:28 AM  

Chief Superintendent Lookout: maniacbastard: Likwit: maniacbastard: Many Tesla drivers are too farking dumb to realize that there are five levels to automotive autonomy and only at level 5 can you trust the vehicle to steer itself unassisted. Teslas are level two or three at best.

Oh and Teslas are garbage cars. They dominate the EV market only because they are almost the only choice.

Give it a few years and Tesla will collapse.

They're actually really great EVs. Europeans have dozens of options and they still mostly choose Teslas.

They're incredibly efficient, suffer little degradation, and are very convenient as a primary vehicle. There are other great EVs, but if efficiency and range are a concern, then there's pretty much just Tesla.

I live in Colorado and for me they are impractical. The range is too short for weekends in the mountains away from infrastructure.

The battery in a Tesla is an 18650 array that is very hard to recycle

Most of Elon's 'innovations' are lifted from others without giving them credit and the guy has gone from a cool guy to a total asshole.

So my bone to pick is hard with phony stark and half with his products.

And don't get me started on starship....

Elon has always been an asshole.

[YouTube video: DEBUNKING ELON MUSK Pt1 (1080p)]


I'm not sure why Tesla detractors seem to think Musk is somehow a counter to the viability of Teslas as electric vehicles. I love Tesla cars, but the only time I ever think about Elon Musk is in these threads when you lot are crying hot tears about him. He's far from the least offensive CEO in America.
 
2022-01-21 8:39:47 AM  
Welp. I farked that up. Far from the most offensive***
 
2022-01-21 8:41:38 AM  

NEDM: Muskovites


Do not exist. Elon Musk is a convenient punching bag and a great way for intellectually lazy and fossil fuel-addicted Boomers (in actual age or at heart) to dismiss EVs and AVs.
 
2022-01-21 8:44:42 AM  

Likwit: NEDM: Muskovites

Do not exist. Elon Musk is a convenient punching bag and a great way for intellectually lazy and fossil fuel-addicted Boomers (in actual age or at heart) to dismiss EVs and AVs.


Bullshiat.  There are plenty who show up into these threads all the goddamned time, talking about how great Musk is and how even though he's an asshole he's trying to save the planet so he should be able to slide on the "asshole" part.  The autopilot bit is something I was told several farking times by different people.

This may come as a shock to you, but not everybody who is tired of Musk's bullshiat and the Tesla fanclub's annoying attitude are oil-guzzling boomers.
 
2022-01-21 8:49:13 AM  

NEDM: baka-san: Thought
I wonder if they will try and pull Musk into the suit
It could be argued that the term "Autopilot" led the driver to believe the system was capable of something it wasn't, and what spoiled brat edgeloard freaking insists that they keep calling it that.

Careful, you'll summon the Muskovites who will insist up and down that the public knows and understands that "autopilot" just means something that keeps a plane level and flying in a straight line, and that the word hasn't entered the popular lexicon to mean "doing things automatically on its own", so there can't be ANY possible confusion caused my the repeated use of the term.


Archer - Heart 1 | FOX Home Entertainment
Youtube 93OfrUek-G4
 
2022-01-21 8:51:11 AM  

NEDM: Bullshiat. There are plenty who show up into these threads all the goddamned time, talking about how great Musk is and how even though he's an asshole he's trying to save the planet so he should be able to slide on the "asshole" part. The autopilot bit is something I was told several farking times by different people.


There's like a 100:1 ratio of people bashing "Muskovites" to actual "Muskovites" in these threads.
 
2022-01-21 8:51:44 AM  

NEDM: baka-san: Thought
I wonder if they will try and pull Musk into the suit
It could be argued that the term "Autopilot" led the driver to believe the system was capable of something it wasn't, and what spoiled brat edgeloard freaking insists that they keep calling it that.

Careful, you'll summon the Muskovites who will insist up and down that the public knows and understands that "autopilot" just means something that keeps a plane level and flying in a straight line, and that the word hasn't entered the popular lexicon to mean "doing things automatically on its own", so there can't be ANY possible confusion caused my the repeated use of the term.


It's not even just the term.

To me the bigger problem for Tesla is how their sales people market it.

One of my parents' friends bought a Tesla, more than partly because she wanted a self driving car. The salesman made Autopilot sound like full self driving. She them tried to tell my parents that's what it was. I had to do some education there. The marketing is going to get Tesla in trouble.
 
2022-01-21 8:59:35 AM  

NEDM: There are plenty who show up into these threads all the goddamned time


Liar. I love Tesla threads, and I try to read or participate in as many as possible because it's fun to shiat on the milkshake-drinking, high waist trouser crowd. I've never seen anyone say anything remotely close to that.
 
2022-01-21 9:09:03 AM  

Likwit: Liar. I love Tesla threads, and I try to read or participate in as many as possible because it's fun to shiat on the milkshake-drinking, high waist trouser crowd. I've never seen anyone say anything remotely close to that.


Oh, isn't this the prototypical Fark experience.  "I never saw it happen, so it didn't and you're lying!"

Christ alive.  Has it occurred to you that people have been arguing over self-driving cars and Tesla calling their system "Autopilot" for farking years?
 
2022-01-21 9:10:24 AM  

Wine Sipping Elitist: Police said the Tesla Model S driven by Riad was moving at a high speed when it exited a freeway and ran a red light, striking a Honda Civic on Dec. 29, 2019.

Odd. It shouldn't do that. Autopilot slows down when exiting the freeway and it tries to stop for every damn light, even green ones. That seems a little aggressive for Autopilot. Maybe the occupant of that particular car was Sarah Connor.


I can't find the article right now, but from an article I read the other day (I'll look for it if you need) It was an older model, the user only effectively had a speed cruise control on not lane following. Which isn't really different from any other cars cruise control.
 
2022-01-21 9:14:46 AM  
It was driver error, they set the autopilot to the wrong setting.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-21 9:18:16 AM  
The only Model X owner I know doesn't use Autopilot much. His biggest problem is with how it makes lane changes - too abruptly and into overly small spaces.
 
2022-01-21 9:26:10 AM  

NEDM: Likwit: Liar. I love Tesla threads, and I try to read or participate in as many as possible because it's fun to shiat on the milkshake-drinking, high waist trouser crowd. I've never seen anyone say anything remotely close to that.

Oh, isn't this the prototypical Fark experience.  "I never saw it happen, so it didn't and you're lying!"

Christ alive.  Has it occurred to you that people have been arguing over self-driving cars and Tesla calling their system "Autopilot" for farking years?


K. Where are all these "Muskovites," though? I've honestly never seen one on Fark, and I've been in a ton of EV-related threads. Surely if they show up "all the time" I'd have run into at least one, no?
 
2022-01-21 9:36:09 AM  
I've got some friends that are not really competent drivers (speed up to stop lights and slam on brakes, follow too close, change lanes without warning, etc.). I hate whenever they will be doing the driving when we go out. You think I'm going to trust a computer?
 
2022-01-21 10:26:19 AM  
Was he driving or texting?  Article fails to really establish who was at fault;  Autopilot or him or both.

My wife's Subaru has a driver assist, but it turns off if it detects you not driving (like not holding steering wheel), does Tesla not do this?
 
2022-01-21 10:38:55 AM  

stuhayes2010: Was he driving or texting?  Article fails to really establish who was at fault;  Autopilot or him or both.

My wife's Subaru has a driver assist, but it turns off if it detects you not driving (like not holding steering wheel), does Tesla not do this?


That seems like the worst time for it to stop altogether.
 
2022-01-21 10:43:25 AM  

edmo: stuhayes2010: Was he driving or texting?  Article fails to really establish who was at fault;  Autopilot or him or both.

My wife's Subaru has a driver assist, but it turns off if it detects you not driving (like not holding steering wheel), does Tesla not do this?

That seems like the worst time for it to stop altogether.


It also applies the brakes.
 
2022-01-21 10:47:15 AM  

Likwit: Chief Superintendent Lookout: maniacbastard: Likwit: maniacbastard: Many Tesla drivers are too farking dumb to realize that there are five levels to automotive autonomy and only at level 5 can you trust the vehicle to steer itself unassisted. Teslas are level two or three at best.

Oh and Teslas are garbage cars. They dominate the EV market only because they are almost the only choice.

Give it a few years and Tesla will collapse.

They're actually really great EVs. Europeans have dozens of options and they still mostly choose Teslas.

They're incredibly efficient, suffer little degradation, and are very convenient as a primary vehicle. There are other great EVs, but if efficiency and range are a concern, then there's pretty much just Tesla.

I live in Colorado and for me they are impractical. The range is too short for weekends in the mountains away from infrastructure.

The battery in a Tesla is an 18650 array that is very hard to recycle

Most of Elon's 'innovations' are lifted from others without giving them credit and the guy has gone from a cool guy to a total asshole.

So my bone to pick is hard with phony stark and half with his products.

And don't get me started on starship....

Elon has always been an asshole.

[YouTube video: DEBUNKING ELON MUSK Pt1 (1080p)]

I'm not sure why Tesla detractors seem to think Musk is somehow a counter to the viability of Teslas as electric vehicles. I love Tesla cars, but the only time I ever think about Elon Musk is in these threads when you lot are crying hot tears about him. He's far from the least offensive CEO in America.


Tesla's are crap cars, they look chintzy next to a Ford 500

And yes that was specific because one of mine and Mrs bakas best friends one one of each, she got her 500 b/c it belonged to her parents and she needed a new car, he has the model 3 and bought it cause he wanted it(yeah, he's a bit of an asshole)
 
2022-01-21 10:48:42 AM  
Oh, and for the record, I would buy anEV in a heartbeat for daily driving if I could right now
 
2022-01-21 11:32:44 AM  

stuhayes2010: My wife's Subaru has a driver assist, but it turns off if it detects you not driving (like not holding steering wheel), does Tesla not do this?


Yes, the autopilot turns off in the same condition.  It will also preemptively lock you out of even turning it on if it detects poor driving in general (lane departure warnings, front collision warning, etc.)

NEDM: who will insist up and down that the public knows and understands that "autopilot" just means something that keeps a plane level and flying in a straight line


No one is arguing the general public understands what "autopilot" means whether talking about planes or Teslas.  However, anyone that sits in the car itself will sure as shiat know what the limitations are.

NEDM: Bullshiat.  There are plenty who show up into these threads all the goddamned time, talking about how great Musk is


Not sure what Tesla threads you've been in.  There may be a couple devotees here and there, but much like the Apple threads, they are totally outvoiced by the throngs of anti-Tesla folks from the start.
 
2022-01-21 11:54:44 AM  

Likwit: There's destination chargers all over the mountain areas, superchargers in Vale, Glenwood Springs, Silverthirne, Poncha Springs, etc.


For some reason "Destination chargers" are all attached to high-end resorts, not exactly the kinds of places one seeks when trying to get away from civilization.
 
2022-01-21 12:10:21 PM  

Wine Sipping Elitist: Police said the Tesla Model S driven by Riad was moving at a high speed when it exited a freeway and ran a red light, striking a Honda Civic on Dec. 29, 2019.

Odd. It shouldn't do that. Autopilot slows down when exiting the freeway and it tries to stop for every damn light, even green ones. That seems a little aggressive for Autopilot. Maybe the occupant of that particular car was Sarah Connor.


It didn't detect lights yet when the accident occurred.

This is no different than someone running a stoplight on cruise.
 
2022-01-21 12:16:09 PM  

stuhayes2010: edmo: stuhayes2010: Was he driving or texting?  Article fails to really establish who was at fault;  Autopilot or him or both.
My wife's Subaru has a driver assist, but it turns off if it detects you not driving (like not holding steering wheel), does Tesla not do this?
That seems like the worst time for it to stop altogether.
It also applies the brakes.


What the fark.  I'll just drive it myself.  I don't  need autocorrect in my car.  I learned how to drive.  And in case of an emergency, I assume a new car will brake or beep or whatever it needs to do.
 
2022-01-21 12:57:18 PM  

maniacbastard: The battery in a Tesla is an 18650 array that is very hard to recycle


A large nitpick here... their most common/highest-volume models don't use 18650s.  The 3 and Y launched with an entirely different battery pack and cell design, and make up most of their sales.  There's a mix across the available models and trim lines now... 18650s, 2170s (the most common), and prismatic (rectangular) cells.
 
2022-01-21 1:07:01 PM  

Wine Sipping Elitist: Police said the Tesla Model S driven by Riad was moving at a high speed when it exited a freeway and ran a red light, striking a Honda Civic on Dec. 29, 2019.

Odd. It shouldn't do that. Autopilot slows down when exiting the freeway and it tries to stop for every damn light, even green ones. That seems a little aggressive for Autopilot. Maybe the occupant of that particular car was Sarah Connor.


Tesla's "Autopilot" doesn't take exits, change lanes, or stop for lights, ever.  The name is probably terrible, given how mixed-up people are about its capabilities.  It'll blow every red light it comes to.
 
2022-01-21 1:16:20 PM  

Likwit: maniacbastard: Likwit: maniacbastard: Many Tesla drivers are too farking dumb to realize that there are five levels to automotive autonomy and only at level 5 can you trust the vehicle to steer itself unassisted. Teslas are level two or three at best.

Oh and Teslas are garbage cars. They dominate the EV market only because they are almost the only choice.

Give it a few years and Tesla will collapse.

They're actually really great EVs. Europeans have dozens of options and they still mostly choose Teslas.

They're incredibly efficient, suffer little degradation, and are very convenient as a primary vehicle. There are other great EVs, but if efficiency and range are a concern, then there's pretty much just Tesla.

I live in Colorado and for me they are impractical. The range is too short for weekends in the mountains away from infrastructure.

The battery in a Tesla is an 18650 array that is very hard to recycle

Most of Elon's 'innovations' are lifted from others without giving them credit and the guy has gone from a cool guy to a total asshole.

So my bone to pick is hard with phony stark and half with his products.

And don't get me started on starship....

Yes, I'm sure you're super ::concerned:: about Tesla battery recyclability.

For most people, even in Colorado, they're plenty practical. And if you don't think there are chargers up in the mountains I question your Colorado credentials. Crunchies love EVs and they have a lot of money. There's destination chargers all over the mountain areas, superchargers in Vale, Glenwood Springs, Silverthirne, Poncha Springs, etc. You can do plenty in Colorado with one.


Where I like to go in the mountains there are no signs of people at all except for myself. I drive a plug in hybrid that gets 18 miles to a charge. That combined with over 400 miles of gasoline range works for me.

You really don't understand the benefits of the mountains if you think people want to go to only the cities in them.

The new Hummer EV has enough range and can handle the being off road. I would buy one of those.
 
2022-01-21 1:17:35 PM  

raygundan: A large nitpick here... their most common/highest-volume models don't use 18650s. The 3 and Y launched with an entirely different battery pack and cell design, and make up most of their sales. There's a mix across the available models and trim lines now... 18650s, 2170s (the most common), and prismatic (rectangular) cells.


That is true, those cells have equally hard to recycle.
 
2022-01-21 1:32:46 PM  
It's precisely stuff like this which is why I don't want my car driving for me
 
2022-01-21 2:06:16 PM  
Was this a problem when original cruise control was introduced?

I believe in what Musk is trying to do, but it's the stupidity of the public that makes me doubt it's possible.  I see the technology being able to give us fully autonomous (Level 5?) vehicles long before the regulatory environment will permit it.
 
2022-01-21 2:13:49 PM  

maniacbastard: Likwit: maniacbastard: Likwit: maniacbastard: Many Tesla drivers are too farking dumb to realize that there are five levels to automotive autonomy and only at level 5 can you trust the vehicle to steer itself unassisted. Teslas are level two or three at best.

Oh and Teslas are garbage cars. They dominate the EV market only because they are almost the only choice.

Give it a few years and Tesla will collapse.

They're actually really great EVs. Europeans have dozens of options and they still mostly choose Teslas.

They're incredibly efficient, suffer little degradation, and are very convenient as a primary vehicle. There are other great EVs, but if efficiency and range are a concern, then there's pretty much just Tesla.

I live in Colorado and for me they are impractical. The range is too short for weekends in the mountains away from infrastructure.

The battery in a Tesla is an 18650 array that is very hard to recycle

Most of Elon's 'innovations' are lifted from others without giving them credit and the guy has gone from a cool guy to a total asshole.

So my bone to pick is hard with phony stark and half with his products.

And don't get me started on starship....

Yes, I'm sure you're super ::concerned:: about Tesla battery recyclability.

For most people, even in Colorado, they're plenty practical. And if you don't think there are chargers up in the mountains I question your Colorado credentials. Crunchies love EVs and they have a lot of money. There's destination chargers all over the mountain areas, superchargers in Vale, Glenwood Springs, Silverthirne, Poncha Springs, etc. You can do plenty in Colorado with one.

Where I like to go in the mountains there are no signs of people at all except for myself. I drive a plug in hybrid that gets 18 miles to a charge. That combined with over 400 miles of gasoline range works for me.

You really don't understand the benefits of the mountains if you think people want to go to only the cities in them.

The new Hummer EV has enough range and can handle the being off road. I would buy one of those.


Clearly not a lot of people do of you're the only one out there all the time.

The benefit of the mountains is a slippery slope to ski down. That is the only correct answer for a Colorado native. I need you to turn in your gun and badge and clean out your desk. It's off to Montana with you.
 
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