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(Some Guy)   Right wing justices have opened the door to dismantling the regulatory state. Will they walk through it? They seem to want to   (neuburger.substack.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Supreme Court of the United States, Regulation, President of the United States, executive agency decisions, right wing justices, U.S. Supreme Court, OSHA's regulatory authority, federal government  
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2194 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Jan 2022 at 1:56 PM (16 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-01-19 12:51:02 PM  
fark it, go for it. Dig your own graves.  That's what Russia is paying you to do, right? In less than 10 years we'll have another deadly plague roll through and this time the blue states will be ready and the red ones will be fellating themselves on how free they are.
 
2022-01-19 12:59:07 PM  
Suddenly, in order to save Democracy, we must cancel the USA.
 
2022-01-19 1:25:46 PM  
We've done this before. It failed miserably. That's why we have regulations. It's because many people cannot act honorably, corporations doubly so.

DNRTFA.
 
2022-01-19 1:31:17 PM  
Yes, we must eliminate regulations because they bind the people the law should protect.
 
2022-01-19 1:31:58 PM  

koder: fark it, go for it. Dig your own graves.  That's what Russia is paying you to do, right? In less than 10 years we'll have another deadly plague roll through and this time the blue states will be ready and the red ones will be fellating themselves on how free they are.


Huh

In 1980, Arizona passed the Groundwater Management Act. Its job was to regulate the use of groundwater and prevent overdrawing it in order to prevent things like sucking all the water out of the ground as well as subsidence- when the land underneath settles due to that water being sucked out from under it. We've seen that famous picture from Central Valley California where the old man stands by a pole showing how far the land has fallen. Imagine this in a large city, like Phoenix. If that regulation is bypassed or removed, we will see it. Developers would love to get rid of the regulation so they can make oodles of dollars in speculation. This subdivision has no water, thanks to loopholes they introduced and paid politicians to ignore. Those of us paying attention expect more.

Nothing to do with Russia. And it won't hurt the hedge funds that are helping pull this sh*t off. Those wealthy elites don't even live in the state. So the 'go for it', 'do it' crowd are failing to recognize that the losers will be us and the winners are as American as apple pie, Donald Trump and native American genocides.

This is happening in California, too. Utah. Colorado. It isn't Team R or Team D. It is the wealthy.
 
2022-01-19 1:39:49 PM  
Safety regulations are written in blood.
 
2022-01-19 1:54:59 PM  

Nadie_AZ: koder: fark it, go for it. Dig your own graves.  That's what Russia is paying you to do, right? In less than 10 years we'll have another deadly plague roll through and this time the blue states will be ready and the red ones will be fellating themselves on how free they are.

Huh

In 1980, Arizona passed the Groundwater Management Act. Its job was to regulate the use of groundwater and prevent overdrawing it in order to prevent things like sucking all the water out of the ground as well as subsidence- when the land underneath settles due to that water being sucked out from under it. We've seen that famous picture from Central Valley California where the old man stands by a pole showing how far the land has fallen. Imagine this in a large city, like Phoenix. If that regulation is bypassed or removed, we will see it. Developers would love to get rid of the regulation so they can make oodles of dollars in speculation. This subdivision has no water, thanks to loopholes they introduced and paid politicians to ignore. Those of us paying attention expect more.

Nothing to do with Russia. And it won't hurt the hedge funds that are helping pull this sh*t off. Those wealthy elites don't even live in the state. So the 'go for it', 'do it' crowd are failing to recognize that the losers will be us and the winners are as American as apple pie, Donald Trump and native American genocides.

This is happening in California, too. Utah. Colorado. It isn't Team R or Team D. It is the wealthy.


res.cloudinary.comView Full Size
 
2022-01-19 1:56:35 PM  
The end state they want is neutered agencies who have been demoted to police departments responsible only for enforcing the laws Congress explicitly passes. Good thing we have a lot of smart people in Congress who know things.
 
2022-01-19 1:59:23 PM  

King Something: Safety regulations are written in blood.


They're about to be rewritten with fresh blood.

Oh well, it impacts mostly folks who are on the right, anyway (laborers, tradesmen, etc).
 
2022-01-19 2:01:51 PM  
"No more government intrusion in people's lives! Now, everyone please line up to be tested for gayness or abortiotivity."
 
2022-01-19 2:01:54 PM  
I believe Scalia used to call himself a "timid originalist," or something to that effect.  Meaning that although the administrative state does not appear to be supported by the constitution, he didn't want to undo something that was so ingrained in the orderly operation of the federal government.

It is pretty clear that the current conservative majority would consider Scalia a raging pussy for that.
 
2022-01-19 2:02:29 PM  
This SCOTUS is a goddam joke.

So OSHA can mandate this:

Fark user imageView Full Size



But not this:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-19 2:05:47 PM  
It's been all over the news that MANMADE chemicals and plastics are so widespread in the environment and proliferating so fast that it is no longer possible to know with accuracy how much there are or what damage they are causing.

Sounds like we're well on the way to poisoning ourselves to death, and we're not going to have any pesky regulations to slow things down.

Smoke ''em if you've got 'em!  You're still healthier than the environment these days.
 
2022-01-19 2:06:06 PM  
The courts saying tgevregulatory agencies have to follow black letter law, and if their authority is to be expanded then Congress needs to revise the law is "scary" and "threatening to dismantle the regulatory state"?

LO f*cking L.

How about regulatory agencies follow the law and act within their designated and delegated authorities?
 
2022-01-19 2:07:21 PM  

Nadie_AZ: koder: fark it, go for it. Dig your own graves.  That's what Russia is paying you to do, right? In less than 10 years we'll have another deadly plague roll through and this time the blue states will be ready and the red ones will be fellating themselves on how free they are.

Huh

In 1980, Arizona passed the Groundwater Management Act. Its job was to regulate the use of groundwater and prevent overdrawing it in order to prevent things like sucking all the water out of the ground as well as subsidence- when the land underneath settles due to that water being sucked out from under it. We've seen that famous picture from Central Valley California where the old man stands by a pole showing how far the land has fallen. Imagine this in a large city, like Phoenix. If that regulation is bypassed or removed, we will see it. Developers would love to get rid of the regulation so they can make oodles of dollars in speculation. This subdivision has no water, thanks to loopholes they introduced and paid politicians to ignore. Those of us paying attention expect more.

Nothing to do with Russia. And it won't hurt the hedge funds that are helping pull this sh*t off. Those wealthy elites don't even live in the state. So the 'go for it', 'do it' crowd are failing to recognize that the losers will be us and the winners are as American as apple pie, Donald Trump and native American genocides.

This is happening in California, too. Utah. Colorado. It isn't Team R or Team D. It is the wealthy.


They are saying Do It because they want things to be bad. Sometimes I do too, I don't know what else will get adult Americans to grow up and think rationally again.
 
2022-01-19 2:07:38 PM  
The 1935 Schechter Poultry decision. Schechter Poultry? Now there is a case name I have not heard in a long time, a very long time (over 25 years since I took Con Law).

I've got to do something about this memory of mine. I thought conservative judges weren't supposed to be activist judges and instead respect decades of precedent.
 
2022-01-19 2:07:43 PM  

Gin Buddy: This SCOTUS is a goddam joke.

So OSHA can mandate this:

[Fark user image 291x173]


But not this:

[Fark user image 320x320]


I wouldn't bet on the first image either, if we let the current situation stand long enough for the clown brigade to put together a case and appeal their losses to the end of the process.
 
2022-01-19 2:08:05 PM  

Bathtub Cynic: Nadie_AZ: koder: fark it, go for it. Dig your own graves.  That's what Russia is paying you to do, right? In less than 10 years we'll have another deadly plague roll through and this time the blue states will be ready and the red ones will be fellating themselves on how free they are.

Huh

In 1980, Arizona passed the Groundwater Management Act. Its job was to regulate the use of groundwater and prevent overdrawing it in order to prevent things like sucking all the water out of the ground as well as subsidence- when the land underneath settles due to that water being sucked out from under it. We've seen that famous picture from Central Valley California where the old man stands by a pole showing how far the land has fallen. Imagine this in a large city, like Phoenix. If that regulation is bypassed or removed, we will see it. Developers would love to get rid of the regulation so they can make oodles of dollars in speculation. This subdivision has no water, thanks to loopholes they introduced and paid politicians to ignore. Those of us paying attention expect more.

Nothing to do with Russia. And it won't hurt the hedge funds that are helping pull this sh*t off. Those wealthy elites don't even live in the state. So the 'go for it', 'do it' crowd are failing to recognize that the losers will be us and the winners are as American as apple pie, Donald Trump and native American genocides.

This is happening in California, too. Utah. Colorado. It isn't Team R or Team D. It is the wealthy.

They are saying Do It because they want things to be bad. Sometimes I do too, I don't know what else will get adult Americans to grow up and think rationally again.


May I suggest tax cuts for the rich?
 
2022-01-19 2:08:12 PM  
hate to say it but yalls *ucked
 
2022-01-19 2:08:51 PM  

Gin Buddy: This SCOTUS is a goddam joke.

So OSHA can mandate this:

[Fark user image image 291x173]


But not this:

[Fark user image image 320x320]


Difficulty- SCOTUS will make the first set not required either when it eliminates OSHA
 
2022-01-19 2:08:55 PM  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevron_U.S.A.,_Inc._v._Natural_Resources_Defense_Council,_Inc.


Thanks, Clean Water Act, we enjoyed it while it lasted.  And good luck, EPA.  And Stare Decisis?  Nahh....nahhh...not really feeling it.  Seeya!


Chevron U.S.A., Inc. v. Natural Resources Defense Council, Inc., 467 U.S. 837 (1984), was a landmark case in which the [SCOTUS] set forth the legal test for determining whether to grant deference to a government agency's interpretation of a statute which it administers. The decision articulated a doctrine now known as "Chevron deference".

The doctrine consists of a two-part test applied by the court, when appropriate, that is highly deferential to government agencies: "whether the agency's answer is based on a permissible construction [emphasis added] of the statute", so long as Congress has not spoken directly to the precise issue at question.
 
2022-01-19 2:09:16 PM  
Governance without regulation, very interadasting.
 
2022-01-19 2:09:45 PM  

shawnnoo: hate to say it but yalls *ucked


Yeah, watching republicans fark the country does give one that cuckolded feeling
 
2022-01-19 2:09:50 PM  
The last human will die because of painful complications due to hyper pollution but it will be ok because that person's sacrifice to The Bull God will make an imaginary line go up!
 
2022-01-19 2:12:56 PM  

ISmartAllMyOwnPosts: The courts saying tgevregulatory agencies have to follow black letter law, and if their authority is to be expanded then Congress needs to revise the law is "scary" and "threatening to dismantle the regulatory state"?

LO f*cking L.

How about regulatory agencies follow the law and act within their designated and delegated authorities?


Sorry you have to wear a vest and hard hat on the job.
 
2022-01-19 2:15:52 PM  
Without order, there is chaos.

Which is what business wants to return to.

Chaos Theory  --but the theory is usually based on natural disasters or economic meltdown -- not a purposed dismantling of the post-New Deal regulatory state.
 
2022-01-19 2:16:05 PM  
Imagine my complete surprise to find out that for nearly a century "Conservatives" on SCOTUS have swung between supporting and opposing the federal government's ability to interpret regulatory laws with remarkable correlation to whether the government is headed by a RWNJ  at the time they make their ruling.
 
2022-01-19 2:16:05 PM  

damageddude: The 1935 Schechter Poultry decision. Schechter Poultry? Now there is a case name I have not heard in a long time, a very long time (over 25 years since I took Con Law).

I've got to do something about this memory of mine. I thought conservative judges weren't supposed to be activist judges and instead respect decades of precedent.


The new name of the game is "pick and choose".

Republicans want to pretend they didn't make the pandemic worse than it did by defunding everything Obama, Supreme Court allows them to continue the lies that portray masks as "a sign of the Devil" and vaccines as "Ground up baby fetuses with Bill Gates' tracking chips installed" (people who Fw: this bs are probably posting it on a cellphone, which basically IS a tracking device). Then use that precedent to eliminate all government regulatory functions...

Unless of course that regulatory function becomes making sure you prayed to the "correct deity" in the accepted manner at school, making sure women don't have abortions, giving taxpayer money to the Christian church, and/or a bunch of other Conservative dream wish lists they have for America.
 
2022-01-19 2:17:33 PM  
ISmartAllMyOwnPosts:

The courts saying tgevregulatory agencies have to follow black letter law, and if their authority is to be expanded then Congress needs to revise the law is "scary" and "threatening to dismantle the regulatory state"?

Yes.  Congress can not be expected to pass new regulatory revisions every time new evidence comes out. Congress can't even be trusted to vote in support of things like voter rights or a minimum wage that keeps pace with societal need more than once a generation thanks to conservatives willfully stonewalling any effort to improve your country.

Which is the whole purpose behind creating an agency that handles the minutae of the day to day; allowing regulations to keep pace with new evidence without having to wait years or decades to address things like lethal levels of arsenic in ground water/food supplies.
 
2022-01-19 2:19:39 PM  
The oligarchs win again, as they always do, until they don't.
 
2022-01-19 2:19:59 PM  
Everytime I read an article about how this SCOTUS is on track to (or in my opinion already has) show complete disregard for stare decisis, I think how HRC could have picked a person of color who could have helped to turn out the base voters for Obama and/or progressives, and in her and her counsels' infinite wisdom they picked fellow beltway moderate Tim "plain oatmeal is too spicy for me" Kaine.  Talk about shooting yourself (and Democracy) in the dick.
 
2022-01-19 2:21:29 PM  

Murkanen: ISmartAllMyOwnPosts:

The courts saying tgevregulatory agencies have to follow black letter law, and if their authority is to be expanded then Congress needs to revise the law is "scary" and "threatening to dismantle the regulatory state"?

Yes.  Congress can not be expected to pass new regulatory revisions every time new evidence comes out. Congress can't even be trusted to vote in support of things like voter rights or a minimum wage that keeps pace with societal need more than once a generation thanks to conservatives willfully stonewalling any effort to improve your country.

Which is the whole purpose behind creating an agency that handles the minutae of the day to day; allowing regulations to keep pace with new evidence without having to wait years or decades to address things like lethal levels of arsenic in ground water/food supplies.


Yes and no.

The regulatory agencies are meant to craft regulation within their delegated powers, and per the rulemaking process.

If the black letter law does not give the regulatory agency X power, they can not claim it an promulgate a rule to regulate X.

Congress has to give the agency the power to regulate X, at which point the agency can utilize its powers and propose a rule to regulate X.

Until granted the authority to regulate X, the agency is acting outside of the law and their authority.
 
2022-01-19 2:21:36 PM  
The decision made sense to me. Covid isn't a job related hazard it is a life related hazard and making the workplace safety people responsible for vaccines never made any sense. Besides in light of the vaccines not stopping the spread of covid or preventing covid where was the logic in making OSHA enforce it as a safety rule?
 
2022-01-19 2:22:41 PM  

koder: fark it, go for it. Dig your own graves.  That's what Russia is paying you to do, right? In less than 10 years we'll have another deadly plague roll through and this time the blue states will be ready and the red ones will be fellating themselves on how free they are.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-19 2:22:47 PM  

damageddude: I've got to do something about this memory of mine. I thought conservative judges weren't supposed to be activist judges and instead respect decades of precedent.


Nope. Conservative judges are constructionists. They want the country to return to the constitution as written, where states were given carte blanche to do just about anything they want, while liberal justices want to invent new fundamental rights out of thin air and either give them to the federal government or give them to people while stripping rights away from the states.

Precedent is mostly useful for quotes as a means of reaching your assigned minimum number of pages in a decision.
 
2022-01-19 2:23:18 PM  

Samfucious: The oligarchs win again, as they always do, until they don't.


George Carlin was a sage:

George Carlin - It's A BIG Club & You Ain't In It!
Youtube Nyvxt1svxso
 
2022-01-19 2:23:45 PM  

RTOGUY: Covid isn't a job related hazard it is a life related hazard


So is radiation, asbestos, hantavirus, arsenic, mercury, lead...
 
2022-01-19 2:24:53 PM  

RTOGUY: The decision made sense to me. Covid isn't a job related hazard it is a life related hazard and making the workplace safety people responsible for vaccines never made any sense. Besides in light of the vaccines not stopping the spread of covid or preventing covid where was the logic in making OSHA enforce it as a safety rule?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-19 2:25:00 PM  
They had the opportunity to shine, instead they folded like partisan cowards.  Incompetent liars may have seemed like a good plan, turns out demonstrably sucking on the main stage is a sure path to irrelevance.
 
2022-01-19 2:28:00 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: They had the opportunity to shine, instead they folded like partisan cowards.  Incompetent liars may have seemed like a good plan, turns out demonstrably sucking on the main stage is a sure path to irrelevance.


lol, TGOT biatching about 'partisan cowards'.
 
2022-01-19 2:32:52 PM  
Also Hepatitis.
 
2022-01-19 2:33:00 PM  
Well, no empire lasts forever.  When the country falls apart, history will record that it is the conservatives doing.

Conservatives won't know that, of course -- they will just make laws that all history books must teach that America is the greatest and most free and perfectly just country, and that they have always been at war with Eastasia.  All other history books will be banned and burned, because otherwise those books would obviously impinge on their freedom of speech.
 
2022-01-19 2:34:37 PM  

Gin Buddy: This SCOTUS is a goddam joke.

So OSHA can mandate this:

[Fark user image image 291x173]


But not this:

[Fark user image image 320x320]


Yep, although it is conditional.  If workers wear masks for wood dust or volatile organic solvents it's legal.  If they mandate masks for covid-19 it's illegal because reasons, even though covid-19 is just as hazardous if not more so than many workplace airborne hazards.
Clearly congress needs to get more involved, passing laws for every tiny thing rather than agencies.  Our elected betters are all experts in every facet of science, technology, and the environment.  Like Lauren Boebert.  She might not have qualifications but her husband knows a lot about exposure.
 
2022-01-19 2:39:32 PM  
This is, of course, everything the Koch Bros, Mellon, AEI, ALEC, Adelson, The Petroleum Institute and I can't remember the other 20 names on this roster of malignant billionaires, ever wanted.
 
2022-01-19 2:44:19 PM  
FTA-  "is clearlyan argument from absurdity, since OSHA would never issue workplace mandates to counter "crime."


Yeah, when you totally disregard the point somebody makes I can see why you'd think it was absurd.

The SC's point is if the precedent is set that OSHA can make regulation based on communicable diseases, what's stopping OSHA from creating regulation based on crime?

The author might think that's absurd.  That doesn't mean the next POTUS will.

(In other words "I wouldn't regulate that so I don't think OSHA will either" isn't a good legal argument)
 
2022-01-19 2:49:24 PM  

Shaggy_C: Nope. Conservative judges are constructionists. They want the country to return to the constitution as written,


i.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2022-01-19 2:49:56 PM  

ISmartAllMyOwnPosts: The courts saying tgevregulatory agencies have to follow black letter law


That's not what the (conflicting) opinions said.

/tell me you've never read The Jungle without telling me you've never read The Jungle
 
2022-01-19 2:50:05 PM  

RTOGUY: The decision made sense to me. Covid isn't a job related hazard it is a life related hazard and making the workplace safety people responsible for vaccines never made any sense. Besides in light of the vaccines not stopping the spread of covid or preventing covid where was the logic in making OSHA

Occupational Safety and Health Administration
enforce it as a safety rule?
 
2022-01-19 2:50:29 PM  

AtomPeepers: It's been all over the news that MANMADE chemicals and plastics are so widespread in the environment and proliferating so fast that it is no longer possible to know with accuracy how much there are or what damage they are causing.

Sounds like we're well on the way to poisoning ourselves to death, and we're not going to have any pesky regulations to slow things down.

Smoke ''em if you've got 'em!  You're still healthier than the environment these days.


Microplastics are a kind of invisible oil spill.  We need to dramatically reduce plastics use and recycle it rather than burning or sending it to landfills.
The plastics industry has aggressively fought recycling for decades and has bought important politicians to ensure it doesn't become a thing.  Your recycling bins are largely a sham.
We also need a carbon tax credit system that shrinks every year to fund and drive alternatives.  The fossil fuel (and their offspring in the plastics industry), have also aggressively blocked this in the USA.
It's becoming increasingly clear that the problem isn't science or economics but the same political systems that protected chattel slavery are now protecting polluters and sociopaths.  We should change that, and move towards social democracy.
 
2022-01-19 2:52:58 PM  

RTOGUY: Covid isn't a job related hazard it is a life related hazard


"People can get food poisoning from food they grow in their backyards, so it makes no sense to regulate industrial food production."

/Covid appreciates the court's "reasoning"
 
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