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(GamesRadar)   A WotC inevitability: Shiny foil versions of the D&D books being released   (gamesradar.com) divider line
    More: PSA, Dungeons & Dragons, D&D players, older books, Dragons Rules Expansion Gift Set, special editions, game's core rules, alternate edition, mortar stores  
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1237 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 18 Jan 2022 at 10:50 AM (17 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



45 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-01-18 10:12:20 AM  
Meh, I've got the first two books, no way I'm spending $165 to get the new one a few months early.

Currently playing Pathfinder anyway - so it's not like I need to be on the bleeding edge.

Not going to bag on them too hard for the "look! shiny cover" bit though - if customers want that, more power to them. I know I buy dice sometimes, just because they look cool

/shiny click-clack math rocks
//Yes, I am a dice goblin
///Third slashy is rolling up a new character, again.
 
2022-01-18 10:22:10 AM  
...next edition of the ruleset...

Well I guess 5E had a good run.

/I bloody want Gamma World 8E
//and a new version of the Starlost
///you can keep the pony
 
2022-01-18 10:56:15 AM  

TommyDeuce: Meh, I've got the first two books, no way I'm spending $165 to get the new one a few months early.


Exactly.

This is a ridiculous money-grab. Most of us have the other two books already, so we would be paying $165 for the new monsters book.

Nope.
 
2022-01-18 10:57:27 AM  

Public Call Box: /I bloody want Gamma World 8E


I'd play that.

A few years ago I talked my group into a one-shot based on It's Always Sunny, which converts surprisingly well into a post-apocalyptic world.
 
2022-01-18 10:59:19 AM  

Public Call Box: ...next edition of the ruleset...


Isn't coming for a while.  They're talking about something for 2024, but that's likely just going to be 5.5.

This is Xanathar's, Tasha's and the new monster race compendium in a boxed set.  For most players, that's kind of a waste since we bought the first two books already.

/MotM being unavailable as a stand-alone until May is a seriously stupid move, which is practically a first for WotC in the 5e era.
 
2022-01-18 11:03:55 AM  

skyotter: Public Call Box: /I bloody want Gamma World 8E

I'd play that.

A few years ago I talked my group into a one-shot based on It's Always Sunny, which converts surprisingly well into a post-apocalyptic world.


One could argue that the show isin a post-apocalyptic world already.
 
2022-01-18 11:13:12 AM  

UNC_Samurai: Public Call Box: ...next edition of the ruleset...

Isn't coming for a while.  They're talking about something for 2024, but that's likely just going to be 5.5.

This is Xanathar's, Tasha's and the new monster race compendium in a boxed set.  For most players, that's kind of a waste since we bought the first two books already.

/MotM being unavailable as a stand-alone until May is a seriously stupid move, which is practically a first for WotC in the 5e era.


Oh I knew this wasn't the new edition of the rules, but I was just noting for emphasis that they said in the article that there is a new ruleset coming. 2024 sounds about right, assuming they roll out the beta playtest this year.

/I've been assuming they've been in-house playtesting since 2020.
 
2022-01-18 11:46:02 AM  

Public Call Box: UNC_Samurai: Public Call Box: ...next edition of the ruleset...

Isn't coming for a while.  They're talking about something for 2024, but that's likely just going to be 5.5.

This is Xanathar's, Tasha's and the new monster race compendium in a boxed set.  For most players, that's kind of a waste since we bought the first two books already.

/MotM being unavailable as a stand-alone until May is a seriously stupid move, which is practically a first for WotC in the 5e era.

Oh I knew this wasn't the new edition of the rules, but I was just noting for emphasis that they said in the article that there is a new ruleset coming. 2024 sounds about right, assuming they roll out the beta playtest this year.

/I've been assuming they've been in-house playtesting since 2020.


And even if they decide to scrap 5e entirely and move to a 6th edition, that will give 5e a full decade.  Only 2nd lasted that long, and it effectively got a 2.5 with the Players' Option books in '95.
 
2022-01-18 11:51:14 AM  

Beerguy: Most of us have the other two books already


I mean, I've re-bought books just for an extra physical copy before, speaking as a GM.  More players' guides and DMGs especially never hurt.

The issue here is that one of the books is Tasha's, a book released with basically zero playtesting (as compared to Xanathar's, which was all content that had been in league play for years via other +1s with an editing pass) whose mechanics are actively poisonous to both gameplay and roleplay on a level that Vile Darkness / Exalted Deeds could only wistfully aspire to, and whose only contribution to flavor and character-building is to remove them from a roleplaying game entirely.

I don't want that shiat anywhere near my table, collected or otherwise.  It's the first book I've flatly banned with no caveats and no negotiation allowed since old world of darkness.
 
2022-01-18 11:53:29 AM  

Beerguy: TommyDeuce: Meh, I've got the first two books, no way I'm spending $165 to get the new one a few months early.

Exactly.

This is a ridiculous money-grab. Most of us have the other two books already, so we would be paying $165 for the new monsters book.

Nope.


Oh no, a company released a special edition that doesn't appeal to you, what horrible things are they planning.
 
2022-01-18 11:54:55 AM  

UNC_Samurai: And even if they decide to scrap 5e entirely and move to a 6th edition, that will give 5e a full decade.  Only 2nd lasted that long, and it effectively got a 2.5 with the Players' Option books in '95.


What?

AD&D 1977-1989 - 13 years
2nd Ed - 1989-2000 - 12 years
3rd Ed - 2000-2008 - 9 years
4th Ed - 2008-2014 - 7 years
5th Ed - 2014-2022... - 9 years and counting
 
2022-01-18 11:58:09 AM  
I, on the other hand:
-Haven't played in years
-Lost all my old stuff over that time
-Am very excited at the prospect of this gift set

/Yes, I know there's more
//It makes my wallet sad
///Oblig
 
2022-01-18 12:02:14 PM  

madgonad: UNC_Samurai: And even if they decide to scrap 5e entirely and move to a 6th edition, that will give 5e a full decade.  Only 2nd lasted that long, and it effectively got a 2.5 with the Players' Option books in '95.

What?

AD&D 1977-1989 - 13 years
2nd Ed - 1989-2000 - 12 years
3rd Ed - 2000-2008 - 9 years
4th Ed - 2008-2014 - 7 years
5th Ed - 2014-2022... - 9 years and counting


Whoops, my math was off for 1st, I always think it was '81 because of the changes TSR made to differentiate basic & advanced.

As for 3/3.5, it was released at GenCon in August 2000.  The 4e core books were released in June 2008 (so they could run events at Origins).  That's not even a full 8 years.
 
2022-01-18 12:08:56 PM  

SMB2811: Oh no, a company released a special edition that doesn't appeal to you, what horrible things are they planning.



Fortnite and Street Fighter expansions?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
media.mtgsalvation.comView Full Size
 
2022-01-18 12:09:30 PM  
Grogu.

His name is Grogu.
 
2022-01-18 12:09:59 PM  

Beerguy: Grogu.

His name is Grogu.


Fark...wrong thread.
 
2022-01-18 12:13:17 PM  
Eh. Wait a few months and the pdf will be easy to find
 
2022-01-18 12:17:22 PM  
That's cool. I'll just stick with 5e. Spending loads on Warhammer 40k stuff back in the late 80's was sort of the end for me of buying tabletop gaming stuff. Hell, I've still got the full sets of 1st and 2nd ed AD&D books, I'd be fine just playing those. All the fun of DnD is in the role-playing anyway, in my humble opinion, doesn't matter what rules you're using for that.
 
2022-01-18 12:23:34 PM  
Six party members for Baldur's Gate III, not this rinky dink four bullshiat.
 
2022-01-18 12:24:22 PM  

Beerguy: Beerguy: Grogu.

His name is Grogu.

Fark...wrong thread.


And the wrong take.
 
2022-01-18 12:26:42 PM  
i HAVEN'T bought the rules expansions yet, so in theory an all-in-one package is a good thing for me, but that price is still too much.

Even at a lower price I likely wouldn't buy, anyway. Been playing TTRPGs since the '80s and one thing I learned a long time ago is that as alluring as the books can be, more rules not only DON'T make the game better, they often make it worse.

There's something to be said for simplicity and getting creative within a more limited rules set.

Players love having more options, of course, so I allow new classes/races for those eager to play something new, but by and large I'm all about keeping it simple.
 
2022-01-18 12:42:11 PM  
 
2022-01-18 1:09:31 PM  
I still like me some DnD(5e sure), but now that i know Forge in the Dark.
All other RP systems seem lacking to me, seem designed for board games more than story telling games.


like this:
mechanical rules of DnD are, the rules of what your game piece can or cannot do, hard explicit limitations.

but in Forged in the Dark, rules are about story telling and creating drama.

The very best example of that is their inventory system. It's basiaclly schrodinger's backpack.
The rules are not a capacity of weight, with all items have an explicit weight to calculate.
instead players declare how bulky their 'load out" is before heading out. that sets a number of items they can have on them. With some few items taking up more of that space than others.

But a player only declares what they have on them as we go, not in advance. They don't have to explicitly say they have 100' of rope on them before leaving town. they can respond to whatever they run into, by having whatever item they say they had on them.

Now it's been '"observed" so they for sure have that on them. But the other space they have is still undefined, they have in that space whatever they want to have when they want to have it as we go.


Super great elegant system
My one beef on it is they have pretty limted settings, and just way high weirdness in all of. So it can be harder material for some players to approach.they do have a great star wars/firefly/expanse sci-fi mash up that's great.Scum and Villany.The other challenge of the system is it generally assumes the players are, not for sure "the baddies," but diffidently on the outside of civilization, at best wanted vigilantes, at worst a nefarious gang of murdering thieves.But seriously, been RP'n for >30 years, and this is the first RP game i played where it's obvious the rules were not derived from board games, but from story telling.https://bladesinthedark.com/forged-darkdig me some DnD to be sure, but that is the real evolved next stage of RP right there.
 
2022-01-18 1:37:16 PM  

UNC_Samurai: Whoops, my math was off for 1st, I always think it was '81 because of the changes TSR made to differentiate basic & advanced.


Yeah, TSR running parallel rule sets (boxed vs books) was odd. I don't know anyone that actually played the boxed sets beyond Expert. Once you've invested in the hardback books you don't go back. I didn't even know that there was a fifth tier for the boxes (Immortals) until relatively recently. I knew about Companion and Master, but the levels just got silly. My little brain was just comfortable with turning high level AD&D characters into NPCs once they effectively capped out. Leave those high level NPCs for a Deus Ex Machina or sacrifice to drive up the roll playing.
 
2022-01-18 1:40:30 PM  

PvtStash: but in Forged in the Dark, rules are about story telling and creating drama.


Yeah, but having rules is important. Sometimes you can't talk your way out of every situation. Sometimes you have to run away. Sometimes TPKs happen - they teach a valuable lesson. Defined rules make players think sideways instead of just making things up as they go along. I'm sure it is great for the Everybody Gets a Trophy era, but sometimes the party needs to go into the Tomb of Horrors and not come out.
 
2022-01-18 1:44:48 PM  

madgonad: I'm sure it is great for the Everybody Gets a Trophy era,


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-18 1:51:32 PM  

shoegaze99: madgonad: I'm sure it is great for the Everybody Gets a Trophy era,

[Fark user image 245x187] [View Full Size image _x_]


You haven't watched Zoomers game.

Seriously, I got pissed when DMs went all Monty Hall. Yeah, I know roll playing is fun, but always saying yes means you have taken all of the challenge out of it. Letting the players do whatever the fark they want is like gaming with all of the cheat codes on.
 
2022-01-18 2:42:58 PM  
Sadly, enough nerds will buy it that it will become a regular thing.
 
2022-01-18 2:46:30 PM  
Hope the foiling is better than on recent years of Magic the gathering cards as they usually end up looking like pringles after a few hours out of the pack if they are immediately double sleeved
 
2022-01-18 2:46:54 PM  

grimlock1972: Hope the foiling is better than on recent years of Magic the gathering cards as they usually end up looking like pringles after a few hours out of the pack if they are immediately double sleeved


Aren't not are
 
2022-01-18 2:54:24 PM  

Jim_Callahan: The issue here is that one of the books is Tasha's, a book released with basically zero playtesting (as compared to Xanathar's, which was all content that had been in league play for years via other +1s with an editing pass) whose mechanics are actively poisonous to both gameplay and roleplay on a level that Vile Darkness / Exalted Deeds could only wistfully aspire to, and whose only contribution to flavor and character-building is to remove them from a roleplaying game entirely.


Wow, you really hate group patrons and sidekicks that much?
 
2022-01-18 3:18:08 PM  
Don't care.

Still have my old Deities and Demigods book with the Cthulhu and Melnibonean Mythos.

That's treasure enough for me.
 
2022-01-18 6:29:52 PM  

PunkTiger: Don't care.

Still have my old Deities and Demigods book with the Cthulhu and Melnibonean Mythos.

That's treasure enough for me.


I've still got mine. And the rest of my AD&D books. And my dice. And three lead miniatures. But no friends with the free time to play with. Okay, friends in general.
 
2022-01-18 7:35:50 PM  
I can now safely say I played 5e, a full campaign, all the way through.

World of Warcraft, it is. Like, it got to the point where I started realizing that spell usage has no parameters. That's fun - "I cast a lightning bolt at the stone arch above the enemy."

"It does nothing."

"This is a 'weakbolt' on YouTube, nailing a mountain, and sending rocks flying. Off a mountain. So... Why doesn't that work?"

"I'M THE DM AND I SAY SO!"

/It's built for video gamers, not roleplayers, and people who think in straight lines and not angles.
//Since they want to see what I mean, we're playing Alternity next. With the expanded rules for Chaos Magic, and cybermagical augmentation. Should either make them realize their game is broken, or they're not really wanting a role-playing game so much as choose-your-own-adventure with dice.
///I did my best, and resisted saying, "How about we play Legend of The Five Rings 3rd Ed.?" Just to watch the party go paranoid by the third session.
////Or, RIFTS, and really have them go nuts.
 
2022-01-18 7:52:05 PM  
I hate the fact the often have "alternate covers". Yes, I really do understand the reason- to get people to physical local game stores. So far, I've only picked up two alternate covers- The Eberron setting book, (It's my favorite setting.) and Candlekeep Mysteries. (Which gets up to insane prices. It wasn't THAT great of an adventure series.) Right now it's close to $100. (Listed on sale for $93....) 

I always hated when TV guide and other magazines pulled that "Got to Collect Them All" tactic to sell more magazines. I just want one copy.
 
2022-01-18 8:35:56 PM  

Jedekai: I can now safely say I played 5e, a full campaign, all the way through.

World of Warcraft, it is. Like, it got to the point where I started realizing that spell usage has no parameters. That's fun - "I cast a lightning bolt at the stone arch above the enemy."

"It does nothing."

"This is a 'weakbolt' on YouTube, nailing a mountain, and sending rocks flying. Off a mountain. So... Why doesn't that work?"

"I'M THE DM AND I SAY SO!"

/It's built for video gamers, not roleplayers, and people who think in straight lines and not angles.
//Since they want to see what I mean, we're playing Alternity next. With the expanded rules for Chaos Magic, and cybermagical augmentation. Should either make them realize their game is broken, or they're not really wanting a role-playing game so much as choose-your-own-adventure with dice.
///I did my best, and resisted saying, "How about we play Legend of The Five Rings 3rd Ed.?" Just to watch the party go paranoid by the third session.
////Or, RIFTS, and really have them go nuts.


Yeah, that's a shiatty DM. I play 5e and we color outside the lines all the time. The rules and mechanics are fine (mostly) it's the people playing it who make or break the fun.
 
2022-01-18 9:06:44 PM  

Moose out front: Yeah, that's a shiatty DM. I play 5e and we color outside the lines all the time. The rules and mechanics are fine (mostly) it's the people playing it who make or break the fun.


Same. Our group is hugely RP focused and it's a 5e group. Rules aren't what prompts role-playing, players and DMsdo.

Though my favorite will always be the red box Basic D&D set and its follow-ups, I've been glad to adopt 5th edition because it's so damn easy to teach people, including those who have never played a TTRPG before. You can learn the rules fast enough so that you can start leaning into role-playing and playing creatively much sooner. My players have no shortage of creative ways to tackle problems and fun ways to role-play their character.

It ain't the rules that prevent it from happening in other groups.
 
2022-01-18 9:17:13 PM  

madgonad: PvtStash: but in Forged in the Dark, rules are about story telling and creating drama.

Yeah, but having rules is important. Sometimes you can't talk your way out of every situation. Sometimes you have to run away. Sometimes TPKs happen - they teach a valuable lesson. Defined rules make players think sideways instead of just making things up as they go along. I'm sure it is great for the Everybody Gets a Trophy era, but sometimes the party needs to go into the Tomb of Horrors and not come out.


It is kind of telling that "We have magic backpacks that contain whatever we need, right up until they run out of room" is now considered more conducive to roleplay than the old method; which was "Take stock of our characters' gold, time, and resources at hand, and try to figure out how to prepare for what's coming up, just as they would."
 
2022-01-18 10:09:26 PM  
I want to see the CR system re-build from the ground up or get rid of it. Kobolds are common at lower levels because they're low level CR critters. High level characters face high CR level monsters. Why can't we have CR25 kobolds? 2CR dragons? 


They're getting rid of every other marker that distinguishes monsters from each other. No more alignments. No racial traits. Nothing to make any monster "special" or "unique". It seems racist for dragons to have higher level CRs than goblins and kobolds. So, just get rid of the CR system all together and be done with it. Player wants to play the Tarrasque? Go for it!  /sarcasm.
 
2022-01-19 12:45:53 AM  

ParadoxDice: It seems racist for dragons to have higher level CRs than goblins and kobolds.


Wow, kinda missed the point of Dungeons and Dragons.
 
2022-01-19 12:56:02 AM  

madgonad: ParadoxDice: It seems racist for dragons to have higher level CRs than goblins and kobolds.

Wow, kinda missed the point of Dungeons and Dragons.


Only if you missed the /sarcasm tag at the end. ;)
 
2022-01-19 8:46:33 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Beerguy: Most of us have the other two books already

I mean, I've re-bought books just for an extra physical copy before, speaking as a GM.  More players' guides and DMGs especially never hurt.

The issue here is that one of the books is Tasha's, a book released with basically zero playtesting (as compared to Xanathar's, which was all content that had been in league play for years via other +1s with an editing pass) whose mechanics are actively poisonous to both gameplay and roleplay on a level that Vile Darkness / Exalted Deeds could only wistfully aspire to, and whose only contribution to flavor and character-building is to remove them from a roleplaying game entirely.

I don't want that shiat anywhere near my table, collected or otherwise.  It's the first book I've flatly banned with no caveats and no negotiation allowed since old world of darkness.


Tasha's is one of the best modifications to the game since class creation was introduced in 2e. Having hard and fast rules to race and background modifications has helped me as a DM to no end, and allows for players and NPCs to have a story that makes sense, not just shoehorning character concepts into racial backgrounds that make no sense, but have the stat layouts.

/Getting rid of negative racial stat bonuses is also a good idea - I've been doing it from the beginning, and I'm glad to see totally yoked kobolds be official
//Although half-elf is still OP - +4 to stats (instead of the standard +3) and two additional skills is ridiculous
 
2022-01-19 2:19:07 PM  

madgonad: PvtStash: but in Forged in the Dark, rules are about story telling and creating drama.

Yeah, but having rules is important. Sometimes you can't talk your way out of every situation. Sometimes you have to run away. Sometimes TPKs happen - they teach a valuable lesson. Defined rules make players think sideways instead of just making things up as they go along. I'm sure it is great for the Everybody Gets a Trophy era, but sometimes the party needs to go into the Tomb of Horrors and not come out.


And it does have those kinds of rules, but they are all hinged far more on the GM's judgement call, that can take into account all that has happened in story for these character's.
that such static rules as the charater sheet's powers cannot.

they still have classes, they still have a ton of what you know and imagine is needed from other RPs.
What they don't have is too much minute, overly focused on the emulation of a world and the people in it.
but instead have game rules designed from the POV of what story telling drama is.
And that one of the biggest gaps in DnD, is what the GM plans and has numbers/odds worked out for, and what the players wind up deciding to do.

In DnD the GM deals on the fly all the time, or the players will claim "railroading."
In Forged, the rules just take that into account as part of the core of the play, instead of laying out a ton of detailed and exceedingly spceiffic rules and odds, and then hang over all that, GM discretion.

And instead of all those minute details being written rules the players get to know a GM overrides.
They are rules that from moment to moment just say:
The GM tells you what the situaiotn is.

there are specific details of rules it's a bit to get into for you here.
but more or less each time a player is about to make a dice roll for anything. A key difference in this and all other games is that, if you can or not make a thng happen, is more in that moment a judgement call.
The game separates these two things mechanically:
can i achieve X
IF  can X, what are my odds?


See a player can have the highest stat there is in any game power. If they have the power it takes to over come an obstacle, is set in this world to , by and large be, no.
the game world is on a  power scale of 0-10, with players capping out at 4.
As in any one player alone on their own with their skills(not equipment).
And then players face greater challenges by leveraging equipment and each other, more than just any one of them brings the power needed in a moment.


Also this game is not set on killing players, you can be killed but the game rules more or less create a situaiotn that player should only be killed, when t is dramatically interesting. Otherwise players mostly get hit with stress, not loss hit points.

more or less, too much stress leads to trauma, and trauma adds some RP traits to your character.
And leveling up happens most, when you get stressed out and have to deal with trauma situations.

Anyway, saying this is an RP system anyone claiming to be into RP really needs to check out.
the hardest part might be figuring out the play as outlaws/illegal vigilantes, instead of being the welcomed hero adventures the local lord asks for help from.
Forged in the DarkA story telling focused set of RP rules.
It's especially good at not running into rules lawyering, as the rules are so elegant, everyone can know them all in short order.

more or less players can:
1: do something to get better odds

2: do something to improve the outcomes(the power of the outcome not the odds of it happening), while taking greater risks on failures if the dice go against them

and that's mind of it.each dice roll faces the, how effective could you be, and what are the odds of that outcome potential?Once the GM declares those, the players then work their mechanics to and improve (odds or outcome) from there.And mechanically, all players might try to help out on that, it's very much a crew working together more than a group of individuals doing stuff near each other.get stressed out, get some trauma, deal with trauma(or vice) events to level up faster., get too much trauma, and then retire.Most characters in this game don;t die, they just quit the lifestyle once they can't take the stress any more.And there is a set of rules to find out what that retirement is like. And playes are encouraged to give their character's epilogue.
 
2022-01-19 4:30:17 PM  

PvtStash: but they are all hinged far more on the GM's judgement call


That's the problem. The very best adventures happen based upon weird tactical decisions and the chance of the dice. The GM's plan didn't follow as expected and the players were just winging it. When you make the rules an option (to get to yes) you are removing the unpredictability of the game. Just because the GM has a plan on where the adventure or even the campaign is going doesn't mean it has to go that way.

The game is a crucible of ideas from all of the players and the dice make the decisions. That's what made D&D so compelling. Having the players win every battle, get all the loot, have every magic ability imagined, is boring. Like playing a CRPG in God Mode.
 
2022-01-19 6:37:18 PM  

PvtStash: madgonad: PvtStash: but in Forged in the Dark, rules are about story telling and creating drama.


...
Also this game is not set on killing players, you can be killed but the game rules more or less create a situaiotn that player should only be killed, when t is dramatically interesting. Otherwise players mostly get hit with stress, not loss hit points.

If you are encountering this, you have a bad DM or  dumb group. Despite the way Gygax played it, D&D isn't DM versus player anymore. It's collaborative, and a player-killing DM (unless that's what the party wants) is worse than a minmaxer or the player whose PC is Chaotic Evil. One of the primary jobs of the DM is to assess the risk the party can deal with, and place them in situations where there are many difficult but feasible paths to victory. If you have to fudge stats, do so - after all, the stats are only there to help you tell the story.
 
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