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(Eurogamer)   Logistics units mutiny, refusing to resupply frontline troops in... wait, that can't be right   (eurogamer.net) divider line
    More: Strange, Logistics, group of Foxhole players, Massively multiplayer online game, significant increase, Persistent world, logistics players, LOGI members, LOGI group's list  
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2386 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 17 Jan 2022 at 2:35 PM (17 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



22 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-01-17 10:20:51 AM  
Weirdly fascinating. I wonder if it will be studied in future Econ classes.
 
2022-01-17 11:56:18 AM  
At least it's not about virtual vaccines.
 
2022-01-17 2:39:44 PM  
"Pogues are people, too."

No, not really.
 
2022-01-17 2:41:12 PM  
War is hell, and a big part of that hell is keeping the fighters supplied. Wars can be lost depending on who's supply lines break down first. The high difficulty of logistics in this game that they're complaining about seems to be an accurate war simulation.
 
2022-01-17 2:49:34 PM  

zimbach: War is hell, and a big part of that hell is keeping the fighters supplied. Wars can be lost depending on who's supply lines break down first. The high difficulty of logistics in this game that they're complaining about seems to be an accurate war simulation.


Poked into it a bit - seems they're not arguing as much over the fact you have to do things as the tedious way the process works.  I.e. the mechanics suck and what you get for jumping through the hoops is unacceptably chimpy.  It IS a game, if it really is tedious to the point of that many people saying screw this shiat, you've failed the fun test pretty badly, regardless of realism
 
2022-01-17 2:49:37 PM  

WoodyHayes: "Pogues are people, too."

No, not really.


Shane did get his teeth fixed...eventually.
 
2022-01-17 2:54:47 PM  
someone made Truck simulator a part of a war game?

yea, fark that. Automate that BS tedious stuff
 
2022-01-17 3:01:51 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

Feels their pain.
 
2022-01-17 3:17:56 PM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: zimbach: War is hell, and a big part of that hell is keeping the fighters supplied. Wars can be lost depending on who's supply lines break down first. The high difficulty of logistics in this game that they're complaining about seems to be an accurate war simulation.

Poked into it a bit - seems they're not arguing as much over the fact you have to do things as the tedious way the process works.  I.e. the mechanics suck and what you get for jumping through the hoops is unacceptably chimpy.  It IS a game, if it really is tedious to the point of that many people saying screw this shiat, you've failed the fun test pretty badly, regardless of realism


And yet people still maintain spreadsheets so they can play Eve Onine...
 
2022-01-17 3:48:10 PM  
So people play a war MMO to be in the rear with the gear?

Ooooo I unlocked the Meritorious Unit Commendation achievement!
 
2022-01-17 3:52:26 PM  

FrancoFile: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: zimbach: War is hell, and a big part of that hell is keeping the fighters supplied. Wars can be lost depending on who's supply lines break down first. The high difficulty of logistics in this game that they're complaining about seems to be an accurate war simulation.

Poked into it a bit - seems they're not arguing as much over the fact you have to do things as the tedious way the process works.  I.e. the mechanics suck and what you get for jumping through the hoops is unacceptably chimpy.  It IS a game, if it really is tedious to the point of that many people saying screw this shiat, you've failed the fun test pretty badly, regardless of realism

And yet people still maintain spreadsheets so they can play Eve Onine...


There are almost always people that find nearly anything fun.  Evidenced by "If I'm not hanging off of a meat hook by my dick and covered with carnivorous ants while forced to play with my tongue is isn't even hard - git gud!" crowd.  And if you cater to them exclusively, you're catering to a niche.  If you were after making a completely niche game, good for you - mission accomplished.  If you were trying to make something with fairly broad appeal, then you farked up
 
2022-01-17 3:55:10 PM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: So people play a war MMO to be in the rear with the gear?

Ooooo I unlocked the Meritorious Unit Commendation achievement!


It's the same old MMO problem.

There are simply not as many players who find enjoyment in support roles as those who want to be out front swinging their weapons about.

And to be clear Guild Wars 2 mostly did away with the trinity in favor of players learning to dodge damage and manage their own health pools. Players whined until they put dedicated healers in the game so said players can continue to stand and plant like the shiat-fed shrubs they are.
 
2022-01-17 3:59:35 PM  

Boudyro: SirDigbyChickenCaesar: So people play a war MMO to be in the rear with the gear?

Ooooo I unlocked the Meritorious Unit Commendation achievement!

It's the same old MMO problem.

There are simply not as many players who find enjoyment in support roles as those who want to be out front swinging their weapons about.

And to be clear Guild Wars 2 mostly did away with the trinity in favor of players learning to dodge damage and manage their own health pools. Players whined until they put dedicated healers in the game so said players can continue to stand and plant like the shiat-fed shrubs they are.


Now if there was a war profiteer quild or something where my player could get insanely rich supplying arms for the never ending war then I might get into it.  Then it's all VR hookers and blackjack baby.
 
2022-01-17 4:00:15 PM  
This is hardly a new thing. There's been protests in-game for as long as there's been online games.

Way back in the day, in Everquest 1, the end-game consisted only of large-scale raids on bosses. A class might have utility in general, but the rules changed in a raid, so that only a pure specialist could hope to contribute.

One class, the Necromancer, literally had no raid utility other than to just give their mana to other players; they could stand there, click a button, and watch their character twitch as their mana went to someone who could make more use of it. To say this was demoralizing is probably an understatement.

Anyway, at one point, the GM's of Everquest decided to have a tournament. The best players from every class would compete in duels, to see who was the best of the best of the best. When it finally came down the necromancers, they fought each other until only two were left, and when the final duel came down . . .

. . . they both just stood there, twitching, giving each other their mana.

This went on for like fifteen minutes until the GM's got so pissed off that they cancelled the whole thing. It was farking hilarious.

/As a ranger I didn't have the problem of lacking raid utility
//I was there to soak up the death touch from the boss at the start of the fight
///Look, as a ranger I was gonna die anyway so might as well make it useful
 
2022-01-17 4:06:27 PM  

toraque: This is hardly a new thing. There's been protests in-game for as long as there's been online games.

Way back in the day, in Everquest 1, the end-game consisted only of large-scale raids on bosses. A class might have utility in general, but the rules changed in a raid, so that only a pure specialist could hope to contribute.

One class, the Necromancer, literally had no raid utility other than to just give their mana to other players; they could stand there, click a button, and watch their character twitch as their mana went to someone who could make more use of it. To say this was demoralizing is probably an understatement.

Anyway, at one point, the GM's of Everquest decided to have a tournament. The best players from every class would compete in duels, to see who was the best of the best of the best. When it finally came down the necromancers, they fought each other until only two were left, and when the final duel came down . . .

. . . they both just stood there, twitching, giving each other their mana.

This went on for like fifteen minutes until the GM's got so pissed off that they cancelled the whole thing. It was farking hilarious.

/As a ranger I didn't have the problem of lacking raid utility
//I was there to soak up the death touch from the boss at the start of the fight
///Look, as a ranger I was gonna die anyway so might as well make it useful


I mained a Magician.  Vending machine ftw
 
2022-01-17 4:19:35 PM  
WTH? People play a game...to perform work for cheap 'pay'?

This sounds like slavery with extra steps.
 
2022-01-17 4:39:17 PM  
It's funny what people do for fun.
 
2022-01-17 4:46:20 PM  
thankless worker bee positions for low pay, nonexistent status in video games may, paradoxically, be the best preparation for what real adult work life is like.

/did not rtfa
//why would i?
 
2022-01-17 4:54:51 PM  

toraque: This is hardly a new thing. There's been protests in-game for as long as there's been online games.

Way back in the day, in Everquest 1, the end-game consisted only of large-scale raids on bosses. A class might have utility in general, but the rules changed in a raid, so that only a pure specialist could hope to contribute.

One class, the Necromancer, literally had no raid utility other than to just give their mana to other players; they could stand there, click a button, and watch their character twitch as their mana went to someone who could make more use of it. To say this was demoralizing is probably an understatement.

Anyway, at one point, the GM's of Everquest decided to have a tournament. The best players from every class would compete in duels, to see who was the best of the best of the best. When it finally came down the necromancers, they fought each other until only two were left, and when the final duel came down . . .

. . . they both just stood there, twitching, giving each other their mana.

This went on for like fifteen minutes until the GM's got so pissed off that they cancelled the whole thing. It was farking hilarious.

/As a ranger I didn't have the problem of lacking raid utility
//I was there to soak up the death touch from the boss at the start of the fight
///Look, as a ranger I was gonna die anyway so might as well make it useful


Oh, I remember that. Ruins of Kunark, IIRC (maybe Scars of Velious?).

Yeah, I had a friend with an Elf Magician. The GMs we're not happy with Root & Nuke contests involving zero movement, and consisted of how fast you could spam three attacks endlessly.

Right after that, they buffed magicians, but never expanded their spells. WoW swiped a bunch of players in beta thanks to that oversight. The whole "everything is a one-shot death at max level zones" didn't help EQ, either.
 
2022-01-17 5:10:08 PM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: Boudyro: SirDigbyChickenCaesar: So people play a war MMO to be in the rear with the gear?

Ooooo I unlocked the Meritorious Unit Commendation achievement!

It's the same old MMO problem.

There are simply not as many players who find enjoyment in support roles as those who want to be out front swinging their weapons about.

And to be clear Guild Wars 2 mostly did away with the trinity in favor of players learning to dodge damage and manage their own health pools. Players whined until they put dedicated healers in the game so said players can continue to stand and plant like the shiat-fed shrubs they are.

Now if there was a war profiteer quild or something where my player could get insanely rich supplying arms for the never ending war then I might get into it.  Then it's all VR hookers and blackjack baby.


And then if you get rich enough in-game, you get to decide where the people on the front lines are fighting and whom they're fighting against.
 
2022-01-17 5:44:47 PM  

Boudyro: There are simply not as many players who find enjoyment in support roles as those who want to be out front swinging their weapons about.


That's sort of the draw of doing things like running logistics and manufacturing in Eve Online or playing a support/control role like healer or tank in a stereotypical fantasy MMO, though.

There are eighteen damage dealers for every one of you, but they can be replaced whereas if you go down the entire raid goes down with you.  Plus you're usually in the position of observer which means you're getting those combat players into order.

If the numbers were equal and you were all in the same effective role and prominence in the group... I mean, actually that's still fun, I just described Borderlands or Gears of War, but if you were a dedicated support that'd farking suck all the fun out of it.  The whole idea is to play the game at a sort of higher tactical/strategic level where the space you're filling contributes more effective firepower overall than the group could get by putting another pew pew guy in that group slot.  Or, at least, the idea is for it to feel that way, same as the point is for the people up front to feel like they're running in under fire to do exciting action shenaniganry.  Whether it's actually the case is gonna depend on the game.
 
2022-01-17 7:47:38 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Boudyro: There are simply not as many players who find enjoyment in support roles as those who want to be out front swinging their weapons about.

That's sort of the draw of doing things like running logistics and manufacturing in Eve Online or playing a support/control role like healer or tank in a stereotypical fantasy MMO, though.

There are eighteen damage dealers for every one of you, but they can be replaced whereas if you go down the entire raid goes down with you.  Plus you're usually in the position of observer which means you're getting those combat players into order.

If the numbers were equal and you were all in the same effective role and prominence in the group... I mean, actually that's still fun, I just described Borderlands or Gears of War, but if you were a dedicated support that'd farking suck all the fun out of it.  The whole idea is to play the game at a sort of higher tactical/strategic level where the space you're filling contributes more effective firepower overall than the group could get by putting another pew pew guy in that group slot.  Or, at least, the idea is for it to feel that way, same as the point is for the people up front to feel like they're running in under fire to do exciting action shenaniganry.  Whether it's actually the case is gonna depend on the game.


You're essentially playing an officer at that point.  An actual competent one that doesn't jump into fights and lose track of the overwatch and overall strategic/tactical direction you're there to do.  Military has 'em for reasons other than some people liking more scrambled eggs on their outfits - you need those people.  Someone has to keep their eyes on the big picture, and the people fighting can't do it 'cause they're unsurprisingly farking busy atm
 
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