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(Twitter)   Ex head of Ukraine intelligence: "Russia has no desire to wage war against Kiev. What's the point in all this tension-building? To provide us with more weapons, which we are requesting. We are turning Ukraine into a depot of weapons and explosives"   (twitter.com) divider line
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1732 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Jan 2022 at 11:11 AM (18 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-01-17 7:51:51 AM  
Original Tweet:

 
2022-01-17 9:11:35 AM  
Sure, Jan.
 
2022-01-17 9:17:29 AM  
Russian stooge quotes Russian propaganda.
 
2022-01-17 9:47:25 AM  
Yes, the former head of Ukrainian intelligence from the Yankovich regime is a Russian stooge.  Thanks Ric Romero
 
2022-01-17 9:53:05 AM  
Russia does not want NATO on its doorstep. Why would it? The whole point of NATO is to be prepared for military action against Russia's former self, the USSR. It wants a buffer zone much like the USSR did. Ukraine is pretty split about who they support, with the western half supporting the EU and the eastern half supporting Russia.

But the US would be more than happy to supply the mujaheddin in Ukraine. These kinds of insurgency campaigns never backfire, so all should be well!
 
2022-01-17 10:14:53 AM  

Nadie_AZ: Russia does not want NATO on its doorstep. Why would it? The whole point of NATO is to be prepared for military action against Russia's former self, the USSR


Plus it must be humiliating to them to have watched all their former client states go "Jesus, we don't want that again. Let's join NATO as quickly as we possibly can"
 
2022-01-17 10:16:37 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


Unlike TFG, most of us aren't born yesterday when it comes to geopolitics, Weird Putin Yankovich.
 
2022-01-17 11:22:23 AM  
Convince NATO to arm the Ukrainians, then wangle a pro-Russia government into power in Kiev and grab them for yourself?

Sure, why not?
 
2022-01-17 11:25:57 AM  
Ah, shiat. There's going to be a war next month or so, isn't there?
 
2022-01-17 11:28:12 AM  
Seems like Joe Biden is trying to wag the dog with Ukraine
 
2022-01-17 11:30:52 AM  
The Intel guy under Viktor Yanukovych would certainly not have a conflict?
 
2022-01-17 11:32:57 AM  
Actually I do not think it is enough of a powder keg. I say give Ukraine it's nukes back. While we are at it, give Taiwan some nukes too. That would change the game and make things interesting. The bullies would have something to think about, and it would not be the U.S. pushing the launch button.
 
2022-01-17 11:35:19 AM  

heavymetal: Actually I do not think it is enough of a powder keg. I say give Ukraine it's nukes back. While we are at it, give Taiwan some nukes too. That would change the game and make things interesting. The bullies would have something to think about, and it would not be the U.S. pushing the launch button.


Yeah, we should just lean heavily into nuclear proliferation. What could possibly go wrong?
 
2022-01-17 11:35:42 AM  
They are *unlikely* to invade further. The trick is to maintain an endless state of siege. They do this in Georgia and Moldova by backing separatists in those countries. The Russians maintain a foothold, create instability to weaken these countries and block NATO and EU entry by creating endless crisis.

Outright annexing territory by taking Crimea was a bolder move than usual for this model. They gambled that the small size of the land taken, in relation to the whole country, could be done with a minimal of econ and political blowback. They were right. But the risk increases exponentially if they try to push that.
 
2022-01-17 11:36:18 AM  

Riche: Ah, shiat. There's going to be a war next month or so, isn't there?


Russians repeatedly denied that they want to have a war with Ukraine, so yes, the chances for the war are good.
 
2022-01-17 11:36:42 AM  
They don't know how lucky they are. Did that Beatles song never make it to Ukraine?
 
2022-01-17 11:36:56 AM  
 I wish Putin would ingest some Polonium.

An interesting side note is that Polonium was named by Madame Curie after her homeland of Poland that didn't exist as a country when she named the element.
 
2022-01-17 11:38:03 AM  
Nadie_AZ:

But the US would be more than happy to supply the mujaheddin in Ukraine. These kinds of insurgency campaigns never backfire, so all should be well!

Not sure if serious. There is an internationally recognized government in Kyiv. They have a right to self-defense.
 
2022-01-17 11:38:33 AM  

Riche: Ah, shiat. There's going to be a war next month or so, isn't there?


They'd better hurry or General Mud is going to delay their timetables.
 
2022-01-17 11:40:26 AM  

maniacbastard: I wish Putin would ingest some Polonium.

An interesting side note is that Polonium was named by Madame Curie after her homeland of Poland that didn't exist as a country when she named the element.


I have a feeling that Putin dying would not change much. A new asshole would take his place.
 
2022-01-17 11:41:03 AM  
So...*Putin* is threatening Ukraine and making all these demands in order to get *Ukraine* to buy more weapons...from *Western* countries. Who will get all the money. And *not* Russian arms dealers, who do sell weapons and would love to make more money themselves.

This is the dumbest farking argument. It makes no sense even on its face.
 
2022-01-17 11:41:06 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


Yanukovych's dude warns about Ukraine building up as a threat to the nation itself while Russia preps an attack in Ukraine's borders they can claim is Ukrainians attacking ethnic Russians that will require their assistance to protect them.
 
2022-01-17 11:41:42 AM  

Somacandra: [Fark user image image 500x482]

Unlike TFG, most of us aren't born yesterday when it comes to geopolitics, Weird Putin Yankovich.


You could go all the way into the 1700s and this would still hold true. Russia views itself as a major power (more true now than in the 1700s for sure) and wants what it expects major powers to get- fealty of the other lesser states, and hegemony of their culture. They can't stand being treated as an equal with France or England when its obvious that only China and the US are comparable countries (although probably a distant third).
 
2022-01-17 11:42:05 AM  

Nadie_AZ: Russia does not want NATO on its doorstep. Why would it? The whole point of NATO is to be prepared for military action against Russia's former self, the USSR. It wants a buffer zone much like the USSR did. Ukraine is pretty split about who they support, with the western half supporting the EU and the eastern half supporting Russia.

But the US would be more than happy to supply the mujaheddin in Ukraine. These kinds of insurgency campaigns never backfire, so all should be well!


Problem is the end up with nato on there doorstep either way.  Do nothing Ukraine probably becomes a member. Annex Ukraine and they effectively move their  doorstep. Strategically the best course is to maintain tensions indefinitely. Ukraine stays unstable to its people but stable as a buffer. If coldwar 1.0 taught us anything a proxy war is better for business than an actual war. I am convinced that coldwar 2.0 is what everyone except Kiev wants.
 
2022-01-17 11:42:11 AM  

qorkfiend: heavymetal: Actually I do not think it is enough of a powder keg. I say give Ukraine it's nukes back. While we are at it, give Taiwan some nukes too. That would change the game and make things interesting. The bullies would have something to think about, and it would not be the U.S. pushing the launch button.

Yeah, we should just lean heavily into nuclear proliferation. What could possibly go wrong?


Counter-point: if everyone has nukes the US cannot invade anyone and the Duchy of Grand Fenwick will rise to its proper place as defecto Superpower...
 
2022-01-17 11:42:59 AM  

king of vegas: maniacbastard: I wish Putin would ingest some Polonium.

An interesting side note is that Polonium was named by Madame Curie after her homeland of Poland that didn't exist as a country when she named the element.

I have a feeling that Putin dying would not change much. A new asshole would take his place.


You might be correct, but I am willing to try a new guy anyhoo.
 
2022-01-17 11:44:24 AM  

iheartscotch: qorkfiend: heavymetal: Actually I do not think it is enough of a powder keg. I say give Ukraine it's nukes back. While we are at it, give Taiwan some nukes too. That would change the game and make things interesting. The bullies would have something to think about, and it would not be the U.S. pushing the launch button.

Yeah, we should just lean heavily into nuclear proliferation. What could possibly go wrong?

Counter-point: if everyone has nukes the US cannot invade anyone and the Duchy of Grand Fenwick will rise to its proper place as defecto Superpower...


Over the radioactive, smoldering ruins of the mighty Empire of Cornwall
 
2022-01-17 11:44:42 AM  

Headso: Seems like Joe Biden is trying to wag the dog with Ukraine



Does he decide where to sell American weapons before, or after he sets the price of gas at the pump?
 
2022-01-17 11:45:02 AM  

Nadie_AZ: But the US would be more than happy to supply the mujaheddin in Ukraine.


The closest analog to the mujeheddin in Ukraine are the Russian separatists, tovarisch.
 
2022-01-17 11:45:15 AM  

iheartscotch: qorkfiend: heavymetal: Actually I do not think it is enough of a powder keg. I say give Ukraine it's nukes back. While we are at it, give Taiwan some nukes too. That would change the game and make things interesting. The bullies would have something to think about, and it would not be the U.S. pushing the launch button.

Yeah, we should just lean heavily into nuclear proliferation. What could possibly go wrong?

Counter-point: if everyone has nukes the US cannot invade anyone and the Duchy of Grand Fenwick will rise to its proper place as defecto Superpower...


Something something world war 4...Something something sticks and rocks.
 
2022-01-17 11:46:52 AM  

king of vegas: maniacbastard: I wish Putin would ingest some Polonium.

An interesting side note is that Polonium was named by Madame Curie after her homeland of Poland that didn't exist as a country when she named the element.

I have a feeling that Putin dying would not change much. A new asshole would take his place.


Like any de facto dictatorship, he has different factions of sycophants who will murder each other for a while to fill the power vacuum. Hell, even in North Korea which is essentially dynastic there's always some uncle or cousin general who is looking to seize power from Kim Jong Fat coontil he executes them by antiaircraft gun).
 
2022-01-17 11:47:56 AM  

JammerJim: So...*Putin* is threatening Ukraine and making all these demands in order to get *Ukraine* to buy more weapons...from *Western* countries. Who will get all the money. And *not* Russian arms dealers, who do sell weapons and would love to make more money themselves.

This is the dumbest farking argument. It makes no sense even on its face.


As people keep mentioning, this guy was working for the administration who allied with Russia/cut ties with the EU until the Revolution of Dignity caused him to flee Kyiv for Russia, which then caused Russia to invade Crimea (well, they said it was an independent revolution which they claimed to support to protect ethnic Russians in the region, but the "freedom fighters"  were using Russian weapons and reporting to the Russian military leadership the whole time.)

Dude who thinks the West is bad and Russia is good says that the only explanation for tensions between Russia and Ukraine is the West. News at 11.
 
2022-01-17 11:48:18 AM  

qorkfiend: Convince NATO to arm the Ukrainians, then wangle a pro-Russia government into power in Kiev and grab them for yourself?

Sure, why not?


Are you buying the propaganda, or just supplying it?

Headso: Seems like Joe Biden is trying to wag the dog with Ukraine


You too.
 
2022-01-17 11:50:53 AM  

qorkfiend: heavymetal: Actually I do not think it is enough of a powder keg. I say give Ukraine it's nukes back. While we are at it, give Taiwan some nukes too. That would change the game and make things interesting. The bullies would have something to think about, and it would not be the U.S. pushing the launch button.

Yeah, we should just lean heavily into nuclear proliferation. What could possibly go wrong?


The technology is rather simple and if a nation truly wants nuclear capability they will get it. India, Pakistan, and North Korea cannot fix any pressing problem in their nation, but they can build nukes. Turned disputes between India and Pakistan into more of a cold war. The only reason Iran does not have them is because right now the threat of building them is more lucrative diplomatically. It got North Korea the recognition of being a major state with a summit with the POTUS.

Proliferation is inevitable. Might as well make it a problem of our adversaries also, so they can enjoy the wonderful world of world police nuclear whack-a-mole they have helped create for us and the allies of freedom. North Korea just tested a hypersonic missile. That technology probably came from China to help distract the U.S. and allies from China's increasing expansion of its political influence. I'm sure Iran has a technological pipeline to Russia.
 
2022-01-17 11:51:45 AM  

OptionC: Yes, the former head of Ukrainian intelligence from the Yankovich regime is a Russian stooge.  Thanks Ric Romero


THANK YOU that's what I was looking for - which ex-head of Ukrainian Intelligence.
 
2022-01-17 11:52:53 AM  

macadamnut: Headso: Seems like Joe Biden is trying to wag the dog with Ukraine


Does he decide where to sell American weapons before, or after he sets the price of gas at the pump?


Based on the demographics of fark everyone is is probably old enough to remember the Iraq war the Biden voted for and the buildup to it, the narratives coming out of the current admin remind me of that.
 
2022-01-17 11:56:58 AM  

hugadarn: Nadie_AZ: Russia does not want NATO on its doorstep. Why would it? The whole point of NATO is to be prepared for military action against Russia's former self, the USSR. It wants a buffer zone much like the USSR did. Ukraine is pretty split about who they support, with the western half supporting the EU and the eastern half supporting Russia.

But the US would be more than happy to supply the mujaheddin in Ukraine. These kinds of insurgency campaigns never backfire, so all should be well!

Problem is the end up with nato on there doorstep either way.  Do nothing Ukraine probably becomes a member. Annex Ukraine and they effectively move their  doorstep. Strategically the best course is to maintain tensions indefinitely. Ukraine stays unstable to its people but stable as a buffer. If coldwar 1.0 taught us anything a proxy war is better for business than an actual war. I am convinced that coldwar 2.0 is what everyone except Kiev wants.


Russia historically likes buffers. Places they call "Russia" but where all the locals who die in the wars fought in the territory are hated foreigners. See the "Pale of Settlement" for an olde timely example, or the use of Soviet bloc states during WWII.

Letting locals you don't give a crap about suffer the brunt of the damage gives you a lot more options during warfare.
 
2022-01-17 11:57:13 AM  

JammerJim: So...*Putin* is threatening Ukraine and making all these demands in order to get *Ukraine* to buy more weapons...from *Western* countries. Who will get all the money. And *not* Russian arms dealers, who do sell weapons and would love to make more money themselves.

This is the dumbest farking argument. It makes no sense even on its face.


Well, hypothetically, Ukraine buys alot of modern Western NATO military equipment, Ukraine gets a pro-Putin/pro-Russia government back into power somehow, then the new Ukrainian government sends some of those new, shiny weapons to Russian weapons manufacturers to be examined and possibly copied (or improved upon). Remember how the B-29, America's most expensive WW2 project (even more expensive than the Manhattan Project), got into the hands of Russia after an emergency landing, that became copied into the Tupolev  Tu-4; or an unexploded Sidewinder missile fired into a Chinese MiG during the Taiwan Strait Crisis helped Russian missile technology advance far beyond what they had achieved (and the missile was copied itself into the AA-2 Atoll/K-13) themselves.
 
2022-01-17 11:57:19 AM  

Bathtub Cynic: Somacandra: [Fark user image image 500x482]

Unlike TFG, most of us aren't born yesterday when it comes to geopolitics, Weird Putin Yankovich.

You could go all the way into the 1700s and this would still hold true. Russia views itself as a major power (more true now than in the 1700s for sure) and wants what it expects major powers to get- fealty of the other lesser states, and hegemony of their culture. They can't stand being treated as an equal with France or England when its obvious that only China and the US are comparable countries (although probably a distant third).


They really aren't 3rd, though. With their output, they are essentially 11th in GDP and effectively lower due to its Governance of Kleptocracy. They invest more in defense and cyber warfare so they punch above their weight class. They are a biatchy, whiny Italy. And it's hard to be in that position.

They threaten based on perceived power, which is still disruptive, but only its arsenal of nuclear weapons makes a global danger, while its ties to organized crime and cyber kidnappers makes it a global threat. I don't know who takes over after Putin dies but THAT could be a messy couple years.

Ukraine would give them access to more raw materials. If they want a war, however, I think they'll Fark themselves in their own butts.
 
2022-01-17 11:59:12 AM  
LOL never change, Fark.

No matter what ANYONE says (even a former Ukrainian intelligence head) you STILL have to shriek and yell that Russia must be fought!  ARGH RUSSIA!!

By Ukrainians, of course, not Americans.

Which is probably good because the last time the US won a war was, what, Korea?  Or was that a draw?

Your army has been wandering around the desert for 20 years getting their asses handed to them by dudes in robes and flipflops using decades-old AK47's.  So getting someone else to fight your wars is probably smart because all you do is lose.
 
2022-01-17 12:01:39 PM  
He's pretty active in with the U. Moskva alums.  Once captain of the chess team.   Disclaimer:  He didn't really graduate from there.  The KGB had a different campus.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-17 12:06:07 PM  

Headso: Based on the demographics of fark everyone is is probably old enough to remember the Iraq war the Biden voted for and the buildup to it, the narratives coming out of the current admin remind me of that.


Not even close. Biden has only threatened sanctions if Russia invades Ukraine. The same kind that deterred Russia after Crimea.

You're right he's a follower and does what those around him tell him to do (hence Iraq). I just don't see anyone in his current orbit overriding his default dovishness.
 
2022-01-17 12:06:16 PM  

jethroe: the last time the US won a war was, what, Korea?


I'd go with Spain, which was also the last war we both started and finished.

Fun fact: Franco came from a navy family, but went in the army because the navy downsized after 1898.  You're welcome, Spain!
 
2022-01-17 12:06:23 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Russia does not want NATO on its doorstep. Why would it? The whole point of NATO is to be prepared for military action against Russia's former self, the USSR. It wants a buffer zone much like the USSR did. Ukraine is pretty split about who they support, with the western half supporting the EU and the eastern half supporting Russia.

But the US would be more than happy to supply the mujaheddin in Ukraine. These kinds of insurgency campaigns never backfire, so all should be well!


They may be split, but are they split evenly? And no, not in the US "geography should have the vote" fashion.
 
2022-01-17 12:08:15 PM  

macadamnut: jethroe: the last time the US won a war was, what, Korea?

I'd go with Spain, which was also the last war we both started and finished.

Fun fact: Franco came from a navy family, but went in the army because the navy downsized after 1898.  You're welcome, Spain!


That's fair.  So we're talking 1898.  Now THAT is a pretty bad losing streak.
 
2022-01-17 12:08:25 PM  

Headso: macadamnut: Headso: Seems like Joe Biden is trying to wag the dog with Ukraine


Does he decide where to sell American weapons before, or after he sets the price of gas at the pump?

Based on the demographics of fark everyone is is probably old enough to remember the Iraq war the Biden voted for and the buildup to it, the narratives coming out of the current admin remind me of that.


You gotta be farking kidding.  Or nuts.

And besides, it was Clinton who was wagging the dog, remember?
 
2022-01-17 12:08:27 PM  

heavymetal: Actually I do not think it is enough of a powder keg. I say give Ukraine it's nukes back. While we are at it, give Taiwan some nukes too. That would change the game and make things interesting. The bullies would have something to think about, and it would not be the U.S. pushing the launch button.


Username suspiciously being checked for collusion.
 
2022-01-17 12:08:49 PM  

Headso: Seems like Joe Biden is trying to wag the dog with Ukraine


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-17 12:10:21 PM  

jethroe: LOL never change, Fark.

No matter what ANYONE says (even a former Ukrainian intelligence head) you STILL have to shriek and yell that Russia must be fought!  ARGH RUSSIA!!


You're just going to go on and on and conveniently ignore the fact the former Ukrainian administration was a Russian puppet that was helped into place by none other than Paul Manafort, aren't you?
 
2022-01-17 12:10:46 PM  

Shaggy_C: Headso: Based on the demographics of fark everyone is is probably old enough to remember the Iraq war the Biden voted for and the buildup to it, the narratives coming out of the current admin remind me of that.

Not even close. Biden has only threatened sanctions if Russia invades Ukraine. The same kind that deterred Russia after Crimea.

You're right he's a follower and does what those around him tell him to do (hence Iraq). I just don't see anyone in his current orbit overriding his default dovishness.


His default is supporting and voting for military adventurism and hobby war.
 
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