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(Reason Magazine)   Local church has beds for homeless people in subzero temperatures, local villains from 80s movie have other ideas   (reason.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Homelessness, city's Free Methodist Church, cold weather shelter, Richard Wilkinson, homeless people, commercial zoning of the church, zoning board of appeals, downtown location  
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5243 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jan 2022 at 11:17 PM (1 day ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2 days ago  
It is not zoned as a church is the issue. If zoned as a place of worship it wouldn't have been a problem. I know of a church in an affluent area that does overnight shelter and they didn't to get any permissions. Granted they have no signs and guests have to pre-register and be screened.
 
2 days ago  
Someone really needs to organize a dance-off to come up with a lot of money quickly.
 
2 days ago  
It says that hotels would be allowed to operate in the area. So just charge a penny a night and leave a bucket of pennies by the front door.
 
2 days ago  
"If the injustice is part of the necessary friction of the machine of government, let it go, let it go: perchance it will wear smooth--certainly the machine will wear out. If the injustice has a spring, or a pulley, or a rope, or a crank, exclusively for itself, then perhaps you may consider whether the remedy will not be worse than the evil; but if it is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then I say, break the law. Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine. What I have to do is to see, at any rate, that I do not lend myself to the wrong which I condemn."

If these Christians really cared, they'd just break the law and let the chips fall where they may.  Which, to be fair, they might be doing that and just not advertising it.
 
2 days ago  
They don't want them homeless. They don't want the homemore. They just don't want them.
 
2 days ago  
Ew, it's in Reason and as such is an affront to my delicate confirmation bias.
 
2 days ago  

kudayta: "If the injustice is part of the necessary friction of the machine of government, let it go, let it go: perchance it will wear smooth--certainly the machine will wear out. If the injustice has a spring, or a pulley, or a rope, or a crank, exclusively for itself, then perhaps you may consider whether the remedy will not be worse than the evil; but if it is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then I say, break the law. Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine. What I have to do is to see, at any rate, that I do not lend myself to the wrong which I condemn."

If these Christians really cared, they'd just break the law and let the chips fall where they may.  Which, to be fair, they might be doing that and just not advertising it.


I agree. Just do it. And don't relent on anything. Ignore cease and desist, ignore the "constable" showing up. Make them call enough cops to make it happen. And when they do show up don't let them in until it's clear they are going to physically impose their will. Make the cops watch the homeless people walk out the door. and see the looks on their faces. Take pictures of the cops, get their badge numbers.

Have local media ready to cover the story, maybe have them ready to come down with the cameras, reporters and the TV truck for live covereage when it's clear that the police are coming.
 
2 days ago  
It boggles the mind the amount of money the city is spending to avoid allowing something someone else is willing to do for free.
 
2 days ago  
FTFA:   "...Stopping that from happening are Gloversville's zoning officials, who say that the commercial zoning of the church's property and its downtown location prohibit it from hosting a cold weather shelter..."

I have worked in public service for 25 years and know that bureaucracies exist.  Zoning officials in this eastern seaboard hamlet, so named because of a robust glove manufacturing industry, prove that they are real and spectacular!
 
1 day ago  

Incident on 57th Street: FTFA:   "...Stopping that from happening are Gloversville's zoning officials, who say that the commercial zoning of the church's property and its downtown location prohibit it from hosting a cold weather shelter..."

I have worked in public service for 25 years and know that bureaucracies exist.  Zoning officials in this eastern seaboard hamlet, so named because of a robust glove manufacturing industry, prove that they are real and spectacular!


Are you saying they're doing this because they want people to buy gloves for the homeless instead of giving them a warm place to stay?

Because that wouldn't surprise me in the least.
 
1 day ago  

kudayta: If these Christians really cared, they'd just break the law and let the chips fall where they may.


Hey now, it's not like they're Andrew Cuomo.
 
1 day ago  
It's true, these people have no dicks.
 
1 day ago  

jaylectricity: kudayta: "If the injustice is part of the necessary friction of the machine of government, let it go, let it go: perchance it will wear smooth--certainly the machine will wear out. If the injustice has a spring, or a pulley, or a rope, or a crank, exclusively for itself, then perhaps you may consider whether the remedy will not be worse than the evil; but if it is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then I say, break the law. Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine. What I have to do is to see, at any rate, that I do not lend myself to the wrong which I condemn."

If these Christians really cared, they'd just break the law and let the chips fall where they may.  Which, to be fair, they might be doing that and just not advertising it.

I agree. Just do it. And don't relent on anything. Ignore cease and desist, ignore the "constable" showing up. Make them call enough cops to make it happen. And when they do show up don't let them in until it's clear they are going to physically impose their will. Make the cops watch the homeless people walk out the door. and see the looks on their faces. Take pictures of the cops, get their badge numbers.

Have local media ready to cover the story, maybe have them ready to come down with the cameras, reporters and the TV truck for live covereage when it's clear that the police are coming.


This, this is the functional, winning plan.  I suspect this is already getting enough attention to make the local functionaries back down.

May not be the sort of thing that people would associate with them (or maybe I'm only speaking for myself) but this is great work by Reason.  For my money, this is what journalists are supposed to be doing.  Comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable.
 
1 day ago  

Naido: Comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable.


I like that.
 
1 day ago  
Aren't the beds cold if they keep them in subzero temps?
 
1 day ago  
When the cops show up, appeal to their humanity. When they say they're just following orders ask them why the police chief (or whoever gave the order) isn't there with them.

True leaders are willing to do the things they're asking their subordinates to do. Ask the cops, "Where is the police chief? He/she sent you down here while he sits back in the office?"
 
1 day ago  
Yeah so maybe if they get too cold they'll finally be responsible and buy a house.
 
1 day ago  

ArkAngel: It boggles the mind the amount of money the city is spending to avoid allowing something someone else is willing to do for free.


Look at how hard cities work to stop people from feeding the unhoused.

Governments don't want to solve homelessness. They just want the homeless to go away, and they're willing to punish anyone who gets in the way of that banishment.
 
1 day ago  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
1 day ago  
You can't harass the homeless into not existing. No matter how much Republican Jesus tells you that you can.
 
1 day ago  

EnzoTheCoder: Someone really needs to organize a dance-off to come up with a lot of money quickly.


Start playing the motivational montage music.  We have 90 seconds to organize this.
 
1 day ago  

eurotrader: It is not zoned as a church is the issue. If zoned as a place of worship it wouldn't have been a problem. I know of a church in an affluent area that does overnight shelter and they didn't to get any permissions. Granted they have no signs and guests have to pre-register and be screened.


It's not a church
It's an old YMCA building they bought and are using as a food pantry on the lower floor.
They converted the upper floor to a sleeping/food prep area.
They never held services there, it was never a church.
 
1 day ago  

kudayta: If these Christians really cared, they'd just break the law and let the chips fall where they may


Better to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission.
 
1 day ago  
I'd rather a thousand homeless people die than allow them to be exposed to Christianity.
 
1 day ago  
EnzoTheCoder: Someone really needs to organize a dance-off to come up with a lot of money quickly.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
1 day ago  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
1 day ago  
something something deeply held religious beliefs
 
1 day ago  
Sometimes you just have to say, "F*ck you!" They should open their doors and let the people in. Hades, I am about as anti-religious as you can get but I will gladly pitch in a few bucks to help cover any fines they might get.
 
1 day ago  
I work at a homless shelter and  I had to turn away a woman last weekend during Code Blue because we were full. It was heartbreaking but I had to send her somewhere else. Some of the residents were giving me shiat for turning her away. She begged me to let her sleep on the floor. The toothless poor lady was sporting a shiner on her left eye, she was wearing a jacked up Philadelphia Eagles jacket and had to walk 2 miles in beat up Chuck Taylors. God Bless you Trisha. I hope you made it.
 
1 day ago  

austerity101: ArkAngel: It boggles the mind the amount of money the city is spending to avoid allowing something someone else is willing to do for free.


Look at how hard cities work to stop people from feeding the unhoused.

Governments don't want to solve homelessness. They just want the homeless to go away, and they're willing to punish anyone who gets in the way of that banishment.

Homelessness: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)
Youtube liptMbjF3EE
 
1 day ago  

sex_and_drugs_for_ian: kudayta: If these Christians really cared, they'd just break the law and let the chips fall where they may

Better to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission.


No.
 
1 day ago  
Don't give special dispensation to religions.  Sky wizards and magic are not real.  The rules are the rules.  Don't like the rules?  Vote to change them for everybody.  Not just for the people who think magic is real.  If you do, then you might as well exempt the crystal worshipers from an taxes.
 
1 day ago  

Herr Flick's Revenge: eurotrader: It is not zoned as a church is the issue. If zoned as a place of worship it wouldn't have been a problem. I know of a church in an affluent area that does overnight shelter and they didn't to get any permissions. Granted they have no signs and guests have to pre-register and be screened.

It's not a church
It's an old YMCA building they bought and are using as a food pantry on the lower floor.
They converted the upper floor to a sleeping/food prep area.
They never held services there, it was never a church.


In less than an hour they could hold a service. A hymn, a quick sermon, and then it's a church.
 
1 day ago  
i.redd.itView Full Size
 
1 day ago  
Why are the beds in sub-zero temperatures? That doesnt seem very helpful.
 
1 day ago  

WhippingBoi: I'd rather a thousand homeless people die than allow them to be exposed to Christianity.


I think the goal is to not out-sociopath them.  Chill there, Pol Pot.
 
1 day ago  

Herr Flick's Revenge: eurotrader: It is not zoned as a church is the issue. If zoned as a place of worship it wouldn't have been a problem. I know of a church in an affluent area that does overnight shelter and they didn't to get any permissions. Granted they have no signs and guests have to pre-register and be screened.

It's not a church
It's an old YMCA building they bought and are using as a food pantry on the lower floor.
They converted the upper floor to a sleeping/food prep area.
They never held services there, it was never a church.


If a church school lunchlady is a "minister" that a church can fire for religious reasons, then a converted YMCA basement homeless shelter can be a church. Not agreeing with the former, just saying, it would be nice if we got creative with law in favor of a church that is actually trying to do something noble for once.
 
1 day ago  
What if we provided homes for those who needed them?
 
1 day ago  
There is a cost to any nearby business for homeless camps; the daily dumpster emptying, the increased needs for cleaning the business facilities, the frequent harassment and direct threats to business clients.
 
1 day ago  
I'm sure small government conservatives will be fighting this.

Any day now.
 
1 day ago  

ArkAngel: It boggles the mind the amount of money the city is spending to avoid allowing something someone else is willing to do for free.


The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.
 
1 day ago  
it just reminds me of the punch line...the swelling went down after i put it in cider...
 
1 day ago  
That repetitive slapping sound is Farkers masturbating over more human suffering.
 
1 day ago  

kudayta: "If the injustice is part of the necessary friction of the machine of government, let it go, let it go: perchance it will wear smooth--certainly the machine will wear out. If the injustice has a spring, or a pulley, or a rope, or a crank, exclusively for itself, then perhaps you may consider whether the remedy will not be worse than the evil; but if it is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then I say, break the law. Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine. What I have to do is to see, at any rate, that I do not lend myself to the wrong which I condemn."

If these Christians really cared, they'd just break the law and let the chips fall where they may.  Which, to be fair, they might be doing that and just not advertising it.


Had to Google it....at 9pm on the Friday of a three day weekend. The machine has stripped my gears.
 
1 day ago  

EnzoTheCoder: Someone really needs to organize a dance-off to come up with a lot of money quickly.


I'm holding out for a hero.
 
1 day ago  

kudayta: If these Christians really cared, they'd just break the law and let the chips fall where they may.  Which, to be fair, they might be doing that and just not advertising it.


I grew up in the Church, and while I left it a long time ago, a big theme was that the laws of man were secondary. It was not only permissible to break the law in these cases, but it was next level shiat.

Also, it was the 90's, so Waco and Ruby Ridge were top of mind, so if this had happened then, you'd have 30 heavily armed, Vietnam vets guarding the door that were just busting their zippers at the idea of swapping lead with the Feds.

Point being, Christians can be a really valuable resource. You just have to know how to sell it to them.
 
1 day ago  
Didn't realize there were so many "you cant tell me what to do" types on this site.  Sure, fark zoning laws.  I'll just buy the property next door to you farkers and start up my hog raising business.
 
1 day ago  

sex_and_drugs_for_ian: kudayta: If these Christians really cared, they'd just break the law and let the chips fall where they may

Better to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission.


Since when do you give a fark about anybody but yourself?
 
1 day ago  

thehellisthis: WhippingBoi: I'd rather a thousand homeless people die than allow them to be exposed to Christianity.

I think the goal is to not out-sociopath them.  Chill there, Pol Pot.


Tell it to Jebus, God boy!
 
1 day ago  

bedonkadonk: I work at a homless shelter


Thank you for what you do

Maybe it wasn't you, personally, who helped me out during the beginning of the shutdown. But I met a lot of really kind people volunteering at the shelter, who had to put up with a lot of ungrateful, unkind people. I tried to share a joke whenever I could, and they sure appreciated it. I'd sure be sunk without their help during that impossibly difficult time.

Thank you.
 
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