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(9 News)   Is it still a Home Owners Association if there aren't any homes left?   (9news.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, 2005 albums, English-language films, trash cans, Recycling, HOA board president Earl Hauserman, Waste container, trash truck, email  
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4628 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jan 2022 at 12:20 PM (18 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-01-14 11:37:12 AM  
I wonder if the failure of the HOA to provide services  required by contract (trash collection, clubhouse and keeping common area neat and clean) could be a reason to sue the HOA  out of existence or at least stop dues collection for years.
 
2022-01-14 11:39:54 AM  

eurotrader: I wonder if the failure of the HOA to provide services  required by contract (trash collection, clubhouse and keeping common area neat and clean) could be a reason to sue the HOA  out of existence or at least stop dues collection for years.


I suspect that's what they'll have to use in court to get this crap stopped
 
2022-01-14 11:42:44 AM  
$700/year doesn't sound excessive but should he covered by insurance since presumably their house will be rebuilt.  And yeah, if the HOA can't keep up their responsibility then they shouldn't be charging.
 
2022-01-14 11:48:47 AM  

eurotrader: I wonder if the failure of the HOA to provide services  required by contract (trash collection, clubhouse and keeping common area neat and clean) could be a reason to sue the HOA  out of existence or at least stop dues collection for years.


Trash collection and clubhouse are still ongoing.  Not the HOA's fault there's no trash to collect, they are sending the truck, wtill.  The clubhouse was damaged, but it still usable.  According to the HOA.

In an email to 9NEWS, HOA board president Earl Hauserman wrote "unfortunately, the bylaws require us to charge dues and believe me we have looked at any way not to. We are so concerned about this that we have started to raise money to support the families involved and after only a few days we have raised $12,000."

Sounds like you assholes need to vote to change the f*cking bylaws, then.  I'm a board chair - that's a 30-second "Motion?  Second? All in favor?" bit of effort.  I'm sure you could convince the membership to be present in a quorum for that vote.

It's an HOA.  These people will do whatever they can to hang on to anything that keeps them in whatever tiny bit of power they have.
 
2022-01-14 11:49:44 AM  

enry: $700/year doesn't sound excessive but should he covered by insurance since presumably their house will be rebuilt.  And yeah, if the HOA can't keep up their responsibility then they shouldn't be charging.


There was a shortage of skilled building tradespeople in the area before the fire that burned a thousand homes. It is going to take years and likely arguments in Court with insurance companies to cover costs. Any framing or finish carpenters that have a trailer to live in and want to try  northern Denver metro and make good money now would be the time to try. Plumbers and electrical requires a license that can be applied for online.
 
2022-01-14 12:14:15 PM  
Solution: Sue the HOA for not providing the services you are owed for your dues.
 
2022-01-14 12:22:10 PM  
You'll still be fined because your empty lot is the wrong color dirt.
 
2022-01-14 12:26:03 PM  
At that point I'd walk away and let them have the scorched piece of dirt.
 
2022-01-14 12:29:26 PM  

eurotrader: enry: $700/year doesn't sound excessive but should he covered by insurance since presumably their house will be rebuilt.  And yeah, if the HOA can't keep up their responsibility then they shouldn't be charging.

There was a shortage of skilled building tradespeople in the area before the fire that burned a thousand homes. It is going to take years and likely arguments in Court with insurance companies to cover costs. Any framing or finish carpenters that have a trailer to live in and want to try  northern Denver metro and make good money now would be the time to try. Plumbers and electrical requires a license that can be applied for online.


It sounds like a good place for all of those oil workers in North Dakota with 5th wheels to go.
 
2022-01-14 12:29:33 PM  
Fine. Let's call it a Land Owners Association. Happy?
 
2022-01-14 12:31:28 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: eurotrader: I wonder if the failure of the HOA to provide services  required by contract (trash collection, clubhouse and keeping common area neat and clean) could be a reason to sue the HOA  out of existence or at least stop dues collection for years.

Trash collection and clubhouse are still ongoing.  Not the HOA's fault there's no trash to collect, they are sending the truck, wtill.  The clubhouse was damaged, but it still usable.  According to the HOA.

In an email to 9NEWS, HOA board president Earl Hauserman wrote "unfortunately, the bylaws require us to charge dues and believe me we have looked at any way not to. We are so concerned about this that we have started to raise money to support the families involved and after only a few days we have raised $12,000."

Sounds like you assholes need to vote to change the f*cking bylaws, then.  I'm a board chair - that's a 30-second "Motion?  Second? All in favor?" bit of effort.  I'm sure you could convince the membership to be present in a quorum for that vote.

It's an HOA.  These people will do whatever they can to hang on to anything that keeps them in whatever tiny bit of power they have.


California has some weird and complicated HOA laws - they're there mostly to prevent abuse, but sometimes they do result in stuff like this.  You're not wrong about HOA's in general - not even gonna try to claim that I'd be laughing too hard to type, but it's entirely possible they really do have a problem here.  There are rules about changing dues too quickly, etc. - meant to prevent sudden astronomical WTF just happened here stuff, but it can operate in reverse as well.  Unintended consequences stuff.  IF that's the case, and they're not just farking about, sounds like they need to go before a judge themselves and request emergency rule exemptions due to the fire
 
2022-01-14 12:32:07 PM  
Send them an envelope full of ashes and tell them the check is in the mail.
 
2022-01-14 12:34:36 PM  
Anytime someone biatches about HOA they ignore the fact that they opted in to that particular hell.
 
2022-01-14 12:35:44 PM  
Depends, are there still rubes to be fleeced?
 
2022-01-14 12:35:57 PM  
HOA, never, ever, never under any farking circumstances, again.
 
2022-01-14 12:36:02 PM  
About 10 years ago there was a case near Tacoma, WA where the owner had added a second story.  However, the deed required the HOA to approve significant changes to the house -- and an HOA hadn't existed in the 50 years since the house was built.

Courts still ruled that the additions were illegal because they hadn't been approved by the non-existent HOA.
 
2022-01-14 12:37:13 PM  
Something similar: there is a condo outside of Milwaukee that was condemned and all the residents had to move out to find different housing.  And now each resident is going to be hit with a $40,000 'fee' to pay for the demolition.  I don't think I'll be looking at housing with a HOA or condo fees if I decide to move:

https://www.cbs58.com/news/raze-order-has-waukesha-condo-owners-facing-multi-million-dollar-cost-to-demolish-embattled-building

The owners of each condo lost their 'home' and equity - good luck getting that $40K fee.  I'm guessing a lot of bankruptcies and destroyed credit ratings.
 
2022-01-14 12:37:54 PM  

eurotrader: I wonder if the failure of the HOA to provide services  required by contract (trash collection, clubhouse and keeping common area neat and clean) could be a reason to sue the HOA  out of existence or at least stop dues collection for years.


Tfa says they stopped charging the trash collection fee.
 
hej
2022-01-14 12:39:11 PM  
Vote to dissolve your HOA, or accept that you'll still have to maintain it.
 
2022-01-14 12:39:54 PM  
"an email to 9NEWS, HOA board president Earl Hauserman wrote "unfortunately, the bylaws require us to charge dues and believe me we have looked at any way not to. We are so concerned about this that we have started to raise money to support the families involved and after only a few days we have raised $12,000."

Have Americans always been this stupid?
 
2022-01-14 12:40:50 PM  

lilplatinum: eurotrader: I wonder if the failure of the HOA to provide services  required by contract (trash collection, clubhouse and keeping common area neat and clean) could be a reason to sue the HOA  out of existence or at least stop dues collection for years.

Tfa says they stopped charging the trash collection fee.


So the HOA knows they are failing to provide a contracted service otherwise called breach of contract. Trash collection is really needed in the area with big dumpsters.
 
2022-01-14 12:41:02 PM  

FrostbiteFallsMN: Something similar: there is a condo outside of Milwaukee that was condemned and all the residents had to move out to find different housing.  And now each resident is going to be hit with a $40,000 'fee' to pay for the demolition.  I don't think I'll be looking at housing with a HOA or condo fees if I decide to move:

https://www.cbs58.com/news/raze-order-has-waukesha-condo-owners-facing-multi-million-dollar-cost-to-demolish-embattled-building

The owners of each condo lost their 'home' and equity - good luck getting that $40K fee.  I'm guessing a lot of bankruptcies and destroyed credit ratings.


That isn't the fault of an hoa, it is an order from the fire Marshall.
 
2022-01-14 12:42:01 PM  
If the clubhouse is owned by the HOA and is damaged, where do they think the funds to fix it will come from?  HOA dues.  It would be no different than if the YMCA had a fire.  They use the dues to pay to repair stuff and charge you whether you use the stairmaster or not.

In general, F HOAs.  However, this HOA is not the villain, this time.
 
2022-01-14 12:44:14 PM  
"unfortunately, the bylaws require us to charge dues and believe me we have looked at any way not to.

You could, and I am just spitballing here, not charge dues by...not charging them. Pretty sure nobody's going to call you on it.
 
2022-01-14 12:45:15 PM  

eurotrader: lilplatinum: eurotrader: I wonder if the failure of the HOA to provide services  required by contract (trash collection, clubhouse and keeping common area neat and clean) could be a reason to sue the HOA  out of existence or at least stop dues collection for years.

Tfa says they stopped charging the trash collection fee.

So the HOA knows they are failing to provide a contracted service otherwise called breach of contract. Trash collection is really needed in the area with big dumpsters.


The HOA stopped picking up trash because there was no trash to collect and decided to not charge the owners, what villains.

I know people want to shiat on HOAs, and often rightfully so, but this seems about normal.  You can't make momentous changes to an HOA quickly, by design.  As you mentioned above, they do have things they are obligated to do - like maintain the clubhouse and likely other general expenses, which they cannot legally stop doing.  I presume stopping trash collection and lowering dues accordingly was something that they could do.

Sucks for the owners, but if don't sign a deed with covenants and restrictions if you don't want to deal with it. *shrug*
 
2022-01-14 12:46:11 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: "unfortunately, the bylaws require us to charge dues and believe me we have looked at any way not to.

You could, and I am just spitballing here, not charge dues by...not charging them. Pretty sure nobody's going to call you on it.


When they don't have the money to pay property taxes on the common elements and they are sold off in a tax sale, someone might notice.
 
2022-01-14 12:48:58 PM  

dothemath: "unfortunately, the bylaws require us to charge dues and believe me we have looked at any way not to...."

If my house burned down and I lost everything I owned and I got a sniveling, mealy mouthed corporate double speak bullsh*it email like that I would probably become a serial bomber.


And blow up what, charred rubble? You could try running for the HOA board and change things once you and people who agree with you get elected.
 
2022-01-14 12:49:31 PM  
I normally detest homeowners associations.  mine is absolute bare bones. but, a barebones 150$ a year.  So, hey i guess that covers snow removal.

Anyways, one of my dumb neighbors has the fark biden flags & the black flags up the last year.  Total eyesore.  not that we're a really nice place to live, just general 90's build homes in the mid-upper 100k's these days.

Well, my HOA has changed their covenants to ban all displays except for a standard US flag.  No signage in yards of any kind, etc.  They let me know they'll be taking him to court if they don't comply.

So, all in all, thats not too bad a result in my mind.
 
2022-01-14 12:49:47 PM  

The Irresponsible Captain: At that point I'd walk away and let them have the scorched piece of dirt.


The plot of land is worth a lot more than $700, and homeowners insurance often requires a rebuild. So that may not be a great option.
 
2022-01-14 12:50:37 PM  

eurotrader: I wonder if the failure of the HOA to provide services  required by contract (trash collection, clubhouse and keeping common area neat and clean) could be a reason to sue the HOA  out of existence or at least stop dues collection for years.


Yes, sue the HOA so your dues can go up to cover the cost of defending your lawsuit.
 
2022-01-14 12:51:23 PM  

eurotrader: I wonder if the failure of the HOA to provide services  required by contract (trash collection, clubhouse and keeping common area neat and clean) could be a reason to sue the HOA  out of existence or at least stop dues collection for years.


Generally no.

Unless you come across a unicorn, HOA members are not allowed to withhold or offset dues because of (1) state laws to that effect and/or (2) "no offset" language written into the CC&Rs.
 
2022-01-14 12:51:39 PM  

lilplatinum: FrostbiteFallsMN: Something similar: there is a condo outside of Milwaukee that was condemned and all the residents had to move out to find different housing.  And now each resident is going to be hit with a $40,000 'fee' to pay for the demolition.  I don't think I'll be looking at housing with a HOA or condo fees if I decide to move:

https://www.cbs58.com/news/raze-order-has-waukesha-condo-owners-facing-multi-million-dollar-cost-to-demolish-embattled-building

The owners of each condo lost their 'home' and equity - good luck getting that $40K fee.  I'm guessing a lot of bankruptcies and destroyed credit ratings.

That isn't the fault of an hoa, it is an order from the fire Marshall.


I'm guessing the Fire Marshall will soon be at the location of a major condo fire.

No need to demolish. It will come down on its own during the fire.
 
2022-01-14 12:52:49 PM  

eurotrader: I wonder if the failure of the HOA to provide services  required by contract (trash collection, clubhouse and keeping common area neat and clean) could be a reason to sue the HOA  out of existence or at least stop dues collection for years.


So long as they are making a good faith effort to restore those services following a natural disaster they are almost certainly fine. And one piece of evidence for that effort? Collecting dues in order to fund such repairs.
 
2022-01-14 12:53:30 PM  

mcmnky: eurotrader: I wonder if the failure of the HOA to provide services  required by contract (trash collection, clubhouse and keeping common area neat and clean) could be a reason to sue the HOA  out of existence or at least stop dues collection for years.

Yes, sue the HOA so your dues can go up to cover the cost of defending your lawsuit.


Yeah these reactions are incredibly stupid. HOAs are almost impossible to dissolve, and are almost never allowed to file bankruptcy. And they aren't a LLC which is formed in a bubble which insulates it's members. If an HOA pisses away their reserve fund and incurs debt, the property owners in that community are all responsible for that debt individually.
 
2022-01-14 12:54:39 PM  

SpectroBoy: Solution: Sue the HOA for not providing the services you are owed for your dues.


Suing an HOA over such a thing is essentially suing yourself and is generally a stupid idea.  You could "win" and then get hit with a special assessment to help cover the cost of the HOA lawyers.

Get together with your neighbors, organize, and change the bylaws and/or the board.
 
2022-01-14 12:54:48 PM  
I don't live in an HOA, but if my home burns down, I still pay property taxes.

/Yes, the property taxes would go down since the home and land valuation would drop, but I still have fees charged per parcel that are unaffected by valuation
//It is illegal in my state for a county to not collect property taxes on time
 
2022-01-14 12:54:53 PM  
Home not a requirement per the HOA agreement
 
2022-01-14 12:57:42 PM  
These dipshiats willingly signed a contract to join.
Screw em.
At least their neighbor's house isn't painted the "wrong" shade.
 
2022-01-14 12:58:11 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: eurotrader: I wonder if the failure of the HOA to provide services  required by contract (trash collection, clubhouse and keeping common area neat and clean) could be a reason to sue the HOA  out of existence or at least stop dues collection for years.

Trash collection and clubhouse are still ongoing.  Not the HOA's fault there's no trash to collect, they are sending the truck, wtill.  The clubhouse was damaged, but it still usable.  According to the HOA.

In an email to 9NEWS, HOA board president Earl Hauserman wrote "unfortunately, the bylaws require us to charge dues and believe me we have looked at any way not to. We are so concerned about this that we have started to raise money to support the families involved and after only a few days we have raised $12,000."

Sounds like you assholes need to vote to change the f*cking bylaws, then.  I'm a board chair - that's a 30-second "Motion?  Second? All in favor?" bit of effort.  I'm sure you could convince the membership to be present in a quorum for that vote.

It's an HOA.  These people will do whatever they can to hang on to anything that keeps them in whatever tiny bit of power they have.


KInda like protecting a trademark, there are some truths to the legal "need" to enforce the bylaws of an HOA.

OTOH, extraordinary circumstances have priority.  Get a grip on the Real World, HOA dingleberries!
 
2022-01-14 12:58:55 PM  

FrostbiteFallsMN: Something similar: there is a condo outside of Milwaukee that was condemned and all the residents had to move out to find different housing.  And now each resident is going to be hit with a $40,000 'fee' to pay for the demolition.  I don't think I'll be looking at housing with a HOA or condo fees if I decide to move:

https://www.cbs58.com/news/raze-order-has-waukesha-condo-owners-facing-multi-million-dollar-cost-to-demolish-embattled-building

The owners of each condo lost their 'home' and equity - good luck getting that $40K fee.  I'm guessing a lot of bankruptcies and destroyed credit ratings.


That should be how it works.

A condo owner owns a share of the building, and is subject to the same responsibilities as anyone who owns a house or other building. And that includes removal of an unsafe structure.

I feel sorry for them, but that is what you sign up for when buying real estate.
 
2022-01-14 12:59:25 PM  

Begoggle: These dipshiats willingly signed a contract to join.
Screw em.
At least their neighbor's house isn't painted the "wrong" shade.


Enjoy neighbor Cletus keeping his old car in the front yard on cinderblocks.
 
2022-01-14 1:05:29 PM  
Has any Farkers seen if a suit against the HOA for failing to follow firewise practices in a wildfire urban interface area? The HOA should have had insurance including any HOA officers personally as well could be fun. I was up in the area last weekend and it was just carnage. Hopefully it is shown the whacky church is responsible for the fire. It looks like the fire started in a barn by some evangelicals
 
2022-01-14 1:06:01 PM  
Wait till they get the bill for the trash bins, they let burn.
 
2022-01-14 1:06:11 PM  
unfortunately, the bylaws require us to charge dues and believe me we have looked at any way not to

I've been on a board.  It goes like this: "Let's waive the fee.  All in favor?"  There are things that you can't change easily and those all involve fundamental property rights.  Not charging people for a while? Easy. Or in the absolute worst case, you need a vote from all the members.  Then it goes like this:  "Emergency meeting to waive fees due to there not being a community anymore.  Here's the Zoom link.  Ok, everyone all in favor?"
 
2022-01-14 1:08:55 PM  
Benevolent Misanthrope:

Sounds like you assholes need to vote to change the f*cking bylaws, then.  I'm a board chair - that's a 30-second "Motion?  Second? All in favor?" bit of effort.  I'm sure you could convince the membership to be present in a quorum for that vote.

I would not be surprised if their bylaws offered no way of changing the bylaws. In that case, the only thing that could be done is to dissolve the organization (assuming there are provisions for THAT) and rebuild it. Or not rebuild it.

There's plenty that can be done, if they had any desire to.
 
2022-01-14 1:09:37 PM  
Today on PUNK'D: Special Victims Unit you'll giggle the night away as the ringleader of the Wacky Circus, Kelso, along with very special guests Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch inform a community that just lost their homes that they must continue to pay Home Owners Associate fees.

66.media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2022-01-14 1:10:52 PM  

FrostbiteFallsMN: Something similar: there is a condo outside of Milwaukee that was condemned and all the residents had to move out to find different housing.  And now each resident is going to be hit with a $40,000 'fee' to pay for the demolition.  I don't think I'll be looking at housing with a HOA or condo fees if I decide to move:

https://www.cbs58.com/news/raze-order-has-waukesha-condo-owners-facing-multi-million-dollar-cost-to-demolish-embattled-building

The owners of each condo lost their 'home' and equity - good luck getting that $40K fee.  I'm guessing a lot of bankruptcies and destroyed credit ratings.


Well yes that is what owning the property means. Who is going to pay for the demolition? Santa Claus?
 
2022-01-14 1:11:04 PM  

IndyJohn: SpectroBoy: Solution: Sue the HOA for not providing the services you are owed for your dues.

Suing an HOA over such a thing is essentially suing yourself and is generally a stupid idea.  You could "win" and then get hit with a special assessment to help cover the cost of the HOA lawyers.

Get together with your neighbors, organize, and change the bylaws and/or the board.


Of course you are right, and your solution is more civilized.

/ but......  It is a "prisoner's dilema". If I sue and my neighbors don't then they all chip in to pay me :)
 
2022-01-14 1:11:26 PM  

Jumpthruhoops: unfortunately, the bylaws require us to charge dues and believe me we have looked at any way not to

I've been on a board.  It goes like this: "Let's waive the fee.  All in favor?"  There are things that you can't change easily and those all involve fundamental property rights.  Not charging people for a while? Easy. Or in the absolute worst case, you need a vote from all the members.  Then it goes like this:  "Emergency meeting to waive fees due to there not being a community anymore.  Here's the Zoom link.  Ok, everyone all in favor?"


The ease of facilitating change is 100% dependent on the underlying HOA rules.  When I underwrote title I saw all sorts of ridiculousness happening because of the inflexibility of poorly drafted rules.
 
2022-01-14 1:17:56 PM  

lilplatinum: Jumpthruhoops: unfortunately, the bylaws require us to charge dues and believe me we have looked at any way not to

I've been on a board.  It goes like this: "Let's waive the fee.  All in favor?"  There are things that you can't change easily and those all involve fundamental property rights.  Not charging people for a while? Easy. Or in the absolute worst case, you need a vote from all the members.  Then it goes like this:  "Emergency meeting to waive fees due to there not being a community anymore.  Here's the Zoom link.  Ok, everyone all in favor?"

The ease of facilitating change is 100% dependent on the underlying HOA rules.  When I underwrote title I saw all sorts of ridiculousness happening because of the inflexibility of poorly drafted rules.


I bought a property in Texas in the 2000s and the property owners association bylaws still prohibited sales to anyone that was not white. It was not enforced but were still on part of the title restrictions.
 
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