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(HiConsumption)   Ifsf't zpvs dibodf up pxo b hfovjof Hfsnbo Fojhnb nbdijof   (hiconsumption.com) divider line
    More: Cool, Milky Way, World War II, three-rotor Enigma, Alan Turing, German enciphering machine, Enigma machine, elite team of cryptanalysts, Computer  
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1800 clicks; posted to STEM » on 11 Jan 2022 at 9:25 PM (18 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



29 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2022-01-11 7:40:08 PM  
Okay time to do some sacking.
 
2022-01-11 9:35:13 PM  
a crummy commercial?
 
2022-01-11 9:55:56 PM  
zyeef ubkiq whqfx hhrjv tftsc wmttr omxvg fzazh ejmxh ew?
 
2022-01-11 10:03:24 PM  
And "Cthulhu fhtagn" to you too, subs.
 
2022-01-11 10:14:24 PM  
man, I'm gonna drink SO much Ovaltine!
 
2022-01-11 10:25:31 PM  
"You can own..."

No, I don't think I will make the winning bid.
 
2022-01-11 10:37:24 PM  
I've been scouring Walmart, Target, etc. for an Enigma machine and I've never been able to get my hands on one. They're even harder to find than a PS5.
 
2022-01-11 10:59:43 PM  

Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: I've been scouring Walmart, Target, etc. for an Enigma machine and I've never been able to get my hands on one. They're even harder to find than a PS5.


Actually it is probably easier to get your hands on an Enigma than a PS5...costs about the same though:

https://www.stgeotronics.com/Enigma-Mark-4-Kit-Assembled-Plugged-KIT-Enigma-Assembled-Plugged.htm
 
2022-01-11 11:47:39 PM  

LesserEvil: zyeef ubkiq whqfx hhrjv tftsc wmttr omxvg fzazh ejmxh ew?


All right, but just this once.
 
2022-01-11 11:52:09 PM  

Hoopy Frood: LesserEvil: zyeef ubkiq whqfx hhrjv tftsc wmttr omxvg fzazh ejmxh ew?

All right, but just this once.


Reported!
 
2022-01-11 11:52:27 PM  
I don't want any Ovaltine, I'm a Dapper Dan man, dammit!

...did I get my movie memes mixed up again?
 
2022-01-12 12:40:52 AM  
Zl Snex cnffjbeq vf DJREGL
 
2022-01-12 12:51:20 AM  
"It belongs in a museum!"
 
2022-01-12 3:04:41 AM  
yvan eht nioj
 
2022-01-12 4:28:47 AM  
I applied ROT-13 to that, twice, and didn't get anything legible.
 
2022-01-12 5:31:59 AM  

Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: I've been scouring Walmart, Target, etc. for an Enigma machine and I've never been able to get my hands on one. They're even harder to find than a PS5.


https://meinenigma.com/meinenigma-electronic-enigma-replica/

You can get a functioning electronic version roughly the same size as a real Enigma in kit form, and it is compatible with the real ones.

Well, could, and will be able to.   The people who make the kit say the chip shortage has halted production of the kits.

In the mean time, Dirk Rijmenants has a kick-ass free Enigma simulator you can download:

http://users.telenet.be/d.rijmenants/en/enigmasim.htm

He's also got a bunch of other interesting ones, including a post-war US TSEC/KL-7, US WWII M-209, a post-war Hagelin BC-52, and some other crypto related utilities:

http://users.telenet.be/d.rijmenants/en/download.htm

Dirk and I have corresponded on crypto subjects.  He's pretty cool.
 
2022-01-12 6:57:35 AM  
BTW, you could use an Enigma as a secure way to communicate even today, if you rewire the rotors.

Now, "secure" has several meanings, and in this sense, it means "resistant to being broken for an extended period", not "completely unbreakable".  As long as you completely retire the rotors, and keep the wiring secret, it's going to take a very, very large amount of traffic to recover the wiring analytically.

If you then periodically re-wire the rotors, the odds that anyone can build up enough traffic to break it is minimized down to astronomically low numbers.  I forget the math to calculate that sort of thing, but it's buried somewhere in my reference library.

So yeah, terrorist, insurgents, etc. could use Enigma machines effectively, especially electronic versions like the kits if they have a quick "self destruct" function that wipes the wiring permanently.  For the small amount of traffic they would generate, probably only have to re-wireonce or twice a year at most.

Having said that, manual one time pads are a better and cheaper solution.  If you follow the simple rules of their use, completely unbreakable both in theory and practice.
 
2022-01-12 7:06:13 AM  
Article has a number of common errors.   Turing didn't crack the Enigma, Polish mathematician Marian Rejewski did, back when Turing was still an undergrad.

Turing and the rest of Bletchley Park were spinning their wheels on the Enigma problem until the Poles, seeing the writing on the wall and unable to break it anymore because the Germans had added a couple of new rotors in 1938, shared the information with Britain and France.

I'll cover the other glaring wrongness in a bit.
 
2022-01-12 7:25:17 AM  

bughunter: I applied ROT-13 to that, twice, and didn't get anything legible.


You have to do it backwards the second time.
 
2022-01-12 8:25:47 AM  
The other issue is TFA perpetuates tge idea that the Germans thought Enigma was unbreakable.

They didn't.

First, it was forbidden to use it to transmit any information that was classified higher than "Geheim" (Secret).  You weren't permitted to encrypt "Streng Geheim" (Top Secret) info using the Enigma.  So they knew it wasn't unbreakable, otherwise they wouldn't have had that restriction.  Later in the war, that restriction also covered information merely classified as "Geheim" (Secret).

Second, they knew in principle that it could be broken by conventional means if there was enough traffic in a particular key set.  That's why they started changing the keys more often, until it was once a day, and split the key nets up into smaller and smaller divisions, until by late 1944/early 1945, the Ubootwaffetook the ultimate step of issuing each boat that sailed on war patrol its own unique set of keys.  This is little known, but it almost completely blacked the Allies out of reading U-boat Enigma for the rest of the war.  The Allies only broke 3 individual daily U-boat keys in 1945.

Then, too, you have the Wehrmacht actions prior to the Ardennes offensive in December 1944. The orders for that offensive were delivered by courier, and not transmitted over the radio.  You don't do that unless you believe your communications are compromised because it is slower and less convenient.

Finally, the Germans had a program called DER FALL WICHER.  They learned that the Poles had been reading Enigma prior to WWII, had hints from intelligence (including a spy in the US Navy Department in Washing in 1943!!!!  I'd love to hear more about that one!), and even mentioned that it could be broken by "an extensive system of mechanical cryptanalytic aids".

Here is a link to the formerly Top Secret document outlining that:

https://www.nsa.gov/portals/75/documents/news-features/declassified-documents/tech-journals/der-fall-wicher.pdf

The Germans were working on a six rotor replacement for the Enigma by war's end, it just didn't get completed in time.  And the post-war West German government did *NOT* use the Enigma, despite its cryptological staff being mostly ex-Nazi cryptologists.

I think a more accurate conclusion is to say that by mid-1944, the Germans knew or highly suspected that Enigma was compromised, and they started working on a replacement.  They didn't finish in time, but they took steps to increase the security of Enigma until they could replace it.
 
2022-01-12 8:32:27 AM  
Money quote from that link for the TL;DR types:

The Germans acted, from 1943 onwards, as if they knew that a large mechanized Allied SIGINT effort was directed against ENIGMA, but clearly believed the "Fish" cipher teleprinters were completely secure-which they were not. This suggests some kind of incomplete leak, possibly from gossip from people who knew that ENIGMA was being exploited, but did not know about "Fish" exploitation.
 
2022-01-12 8:44:36 AM  

dittybopper: Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: I've been scouring Walmart, Target, etc. for an Enigma machine and I've never been able to get my hands on one. They're even harder to find than a PS5.

https://meinenigma.com/meinenigma-electronic-enigma-replica/

You can get a functioning electronic version roughly the same size as a real Enigma in kit form, and it is compatible with the real ones.

Well, could, and will be able to.   The people who make the kit say the chip shortage has halted production of the kits.

In the mean time, Dirk Rijmenants has a kick-ass free Enigma simulator you can download:

http://users.telenet.be/d.rijmenants/en/enigmasim.htm

He's also got a bunch of other interesting ones, including a post-war US TSEC/KL-7, US WWII M-209, a post-war Hagelin BC-52, and some other crypto related utilities:

http://users.telenet.be/d.rijmenants/en/download.htm

Dirk and I have corresponded on crypto subjects.  He's pretty cool.


Oblig
imgs.xkcd.comView Full Size
 
2022-01-12 10:06:43 AM  

anuran: dittybopper: Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: I've been scouring Walmart, Target, etc. for an Enigma machine and I've never been able to get my hands on one. They're even harder to find than a PS5.

https://meinenigma.com/meinenigma-electronic-enigma-replica/

You can get a functioning electronic version roughly the same size as a real Enigma in kit form, and it is compatible with the real ones.

Well, could, and will be able to.   The people who make the kit say the chip shortage has halted production of the kits.

In the mean time, Dirk Rijmenants has a kick-ass free Enigma simulator you can download:

http://users.telenet.be/d.rijmenants/en/enigmasim.htm

He's also got a bunch of other interesting ones, including a post-war US TSEC/KL-7, US WWII M-209, a post-war Hagelin BC-52, and some other crypto related utilities:

http://users.telenet.be/d.rijmenants/en/download.htm

Dirk and I have corresponded on crypto subjects.  He's pretty cool.

Oblig
[imgs.xkcd.com image 448x274]


Meh.  One time pads are rubber hose cryptanalysis proof.
 
2022-01-12 12:35:54 PM  

dittybopper: As long as you completely retire the rotors, and keep the wiring secret, it's going to take a very, very large amount of traffic to recover the wiring analytically.


What if you signoff every communication with the letters HH?

/The German straight legs were big fans of the 88 thing
 
2022-01-12 3:50:39 PM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: dittybopper: As long as you completely retire the rotors, and keep the wiring secret, it's going to take a very, very large amount of traffic to recover the wiring analytically.

What if you signoff every communication with the letters HH?

/The German straight legs were big fans of the 88 thing


That's a sign off, like how amateurs use "shave and a haircut, two bits":  one op sends ESE (. ... .), other op sends EE (. .), or just EE, EE for short.

It wouldn't have been encrypted, thus of no use to break Enigma.  After all, the operators generally didn't encrypt the messages, someone else did (either an officer or NCO).
 
2022-01-12 4:10:00 PM  
Having said that, you can use stereotypical beginnings and endings to do that.  To that end, they would often try ANX as the beginning to see if that worked.  AN meaning "To" in German, with X being a word separator.

The Germans recognized this was an issue and often didn't start messages like that.  See https://cryptocellar.org/enigma/enigma-modern-breaking.html

Bletchley also built up an "EINS Catalogue", a listing of all 17,576 possible Enigma results for the word EINS, which they had determined to be the most frequent word in German messages.
 
2022-01-12 5:58:35 PM  
dittybopper:

https://www.nsa.gov/portals/75/documents/news-features/declassified-documents/tech-journals/der-fall-wicher.pdf

Thanks for that lknk! Fascinating that interesting details are still coming out of the archives. If only they would come faster! The spy in the Navy Department would be a great read...but who knows if they will ever declassify it...would be some serious egg on ssome faces!
 
2022-01-12 6:34:41 PM  

Flowery Twats: dittybopper:

https://www.nsa.gov/portals/75/documents/news-features/declassified-documents/tech-journals/der-fall-wicher.pdf

Thanks for that lknk! Fascinating that interesting details are still coming out of the archives. If only they would come faster! The spy in the Navy Department would be a great read...but who knows if they will ever declassify it...would be some serious egg on ssome faces!


I'm not entirely sure the US ever figured out who it was.  The Abwehr records probably didn't mention the actual name of the spy as a security measure.

But damn I wish I knew the story behind it.  The standard histories make it sound as if the FBI either arrested or controlled all of the Nazi spies in the US.  That obviously wasn't true.  I was shocked when I first read that revelation.
 
2022-01-13 7:48:07 AM  
I don't really want to OWN one, but I sure would like to play around with it for an hour or two. Maybe open it up and look around inside for a bit. I think it would be interesting.
 
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