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(The Week)   Putin believes in the 34th Rule of Acquisition   (theweek.com) divider line
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3777 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Jan 2022 at 4:50 AM (18 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2022-01-10 5:02:42 AM  
Putin wants to invade Ukraine and turn "Russia's breadbasket" into a compliant client state with little to no real autonomy.

The west has no real stomach for the conflict if it comes to war.

So yeah, author of TFA has a point to make here.
 
2022-01-10 5:06:07 AM  
Negotiations are over.  Invade now while it's still winter.  We can triumph where Napoleon and Hitler failed!  We'll be greeted as heroes!  What could go wrong?!
 
2022-01-10 5:16:40 AM  
Drop the whole thing, the US has too many domestic issues to be reengaging in conflict.
 
2022-01-10 5:18:39 AM  
The longer and longer he holds out and does nothing, the weaker he looks..Hedging on the decision
never looks good for strongman leaders..If they don't do or act decisively, the people surround it
take indecision or hedging as weakness and vulnerability.

Putin ABSOLUTELY cannot let this drag into spring. It's either winter (the sooner the better for advancement)
or forget it until mid summer....Ukraine in spring is a giant mud hole that has bogged down armies for centuries..
It's either a decisive move with artillery barrage then armour moving in with troops across froze ground
or your going to be fighting a WW I style muddy trench warfare with infantry with no armour support,
essentially to a stalemate when you reach the barrage limits of artillery on each side...
 
2022-01-10 5:31:34 AM  
Arm the civilian population, move the army into the mountains with resupply lines to the cities to keep the population armed. Make it too expensive for Russia to step foot into any population center. The Ukrainian army isn't big enough to fight the Russian army one-on-one but the civilian population is.

Yeah I know it's ridiculous when people post simple solutions to complex problems on fark but this strategy has worked before.
 
2022-01-10 5:45:12 AM  

comrade: Arm the civilian population, move the army into the mountains with resupply lines to the cities to keep the population armed. Make it too expensive for Russia to step foot into any population center. The Ukrainian army isn't big enough to fight the Russian army one-on-one but the civilian population is.

Yeah I know it's ridiculous when people post simple solutions to complex problems on fark but this strategy has worked before.


I was going to agree with you until I spotted your username.  Now I think we SHOULDN'T arm the civilians.

Nice try...comrade.  Your big mistake was accidentally choosing "comrade" as a username.
 
2022-01-10 5:48:50 AM  

mistahtom: Drop the whole thing, the US has too many domestic issues to be reengaging in conflict.


Not sure if joking but...

That's a cop out. We have to be able to do both. He's responsible for many of the domestic issues we have---that was the whole plan.
 
2022-01-10 5:49:15 AM  
Thank goodness we're talking about the 34th Rule, and not Rule 34.
 
2022-01-10 5:53:37 AM  
FTFA: "It sounds like an elegant solution"

It sounds like an imaginary solution that wouldn't actually resolve anything. Russia would still be playing games, Ukraine would be even more unhappy, and the west would still be restless. What gets better in this contrivance?

JJRRutgers: Thank goodness we're talking about the 34th Rule, and not Rule 34.


Come on, man. I was hoping to see some Russian Bears.
 
2022-01-10 5:56:30 AM  
The outcome of Putin's saber-rattling ultimately depends on two things, neither of which we can know about him for sure without a lot of on-the-ground intel:
1. How good his health is
2. How much support he has at home.

Putin relies heavily on his appearance of being a tough, manly, strong leader, able to eat bears and wrestle tanks with his bare hands; like many better and worse dictators before him he knows that as he ages he has to keep up the appearance of youth and health or his minions will start eyeing his seat for possible replacements.

By the same token, the more the common folk support him, the more the oligarchs have to keep their discontent down to a dull murmur, since without at least a nominal rejection of the supreme leader, they can't just toss him out. But if Putin seems to be failing physically, they can leverage that into a coup without a minimal "groundswell" of support.

Ergo, the better Putin is doing both physically and in the streets, the less he'll want a war with the West that he doesn't really need and probably can't win. If he's got some kind of illness (like the rumors of Parkinson's) or people are getting annoyed with him back in Moscow, then he needs a good war to rally the people in defense of the Motherland.
 
2022-01-10 5:57:57 AM  

Valter: Come on, man. I was hoping to see some Russian Bears.


Fark user imageView Full Size


There you go.
 
2022-01-10 5:58:28 AM  

fruit flies like a banana: mistahtom: Drop the whole thing, the US has too many domestic issues to be reengaging in conflict.

Not sure if joking but...

That's a cop out. We have to be able to do both. He's responsible for many of the domestic issues we have---that was the whole plan.


It's a scarcity war man, always has been.  The only way to win is to not engage with China.  China is pulling the strings in Russia.
 
2022-01-10 6:12:34 AM  
The third rule of acquisition trumps the 34th.

Quark solves the problem of War with Economics
Youtube hdQcGzbpN7s
 
2022-01-10 6:23:09 AM  
How about everyone just calm down and have a cold one.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-10 6:53:13 AM  

Valter: FTFA: "It sounds like an elegant solution"

It sounds like an imaginary solution that wouldn't actually resolve anything. Russia would still be playing games, Ukraine would be even more unhappy, and the west would still be restless. What gets better in this contrivance?

JJRRutgers: Thank goodness we're talking about the 34th Rule, and not Rule 34.

Come on, man. I was hoping to see some Russian Bears.


Sometimes you can't solve everything at once, Russian relations with the west will be tense regardless of what happens in Ukraine. Regardless if Russia gets everything it wants, or the west gets everything it wants.

The point isn't to solve the issue of tense relationships, the point is to avoid war because it's not in our interest in Ukraine
 
2022-01-10 6:57:13 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-10 6:59:59 AM  

JJRRutgers: Thank goodness we're talking about the 34th Rule, and not Rule 34.


Won't lie, I clicked the link just to see what absurdity there could be
 
2022-01-10 7:02:08 AM  
Maybe we should pose it this way: how does having Ukraine in NATO make it significantly stronger?

Seems like a lot of potential downside to accession (namely, open conflict) and limited upside (Ukraine doesn't strike me as particularly powerful able to project force abroad for future Iraq-like wars of choice.)

Leaving them a neutral buffer but letting them join the EU seems like a legitimate compromise.
 
2022-01-10 7:04:39 AM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: [Fark user image image 850x850]


Ah yeah the Munich Agreement, giving warmongers every excuse they need from Korea to Vietnam to Iraq to rush off to war without a thought or plan because ObViSoUsLy war is inevitable and if we just do it now it'll be easier and less costly than waiting.

Ignore all the context of a situation, ignore possible means of peace, ignore whether or not your own military is even prepared for war, obviously we have to go now or risk being destroyed!
 
2022-01-10 7:14:24 AM  

LordBeavis: Negotiations are over.  Invade now while it's still winter.  We can triumph where Napoleon and Hitler failed!  We'll be greeted as heroes!  What could go wrong?!


Ahh, but we have a secret weapon they did not. Climate Change. Soon we will end winter and they shall be defenseless!
 
2022-01-10 7:17:50 AM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: [Fark user image 850x850]


Things are never that black'n'white

Neville Chamberlain Did The Right Thing
Youtube fmyecSXOla8
 
2022-01-10 7:18:50 AM  
nice mixed metaphor
 
2022-01-10 7:25:51 AM  
...and yet he misses the 35th...

Sort of like how a lot of the Rabid Right loves their Leviticus, and miss all the stuff about being good to your neighbors, foreigners, diet, grooming, and not being a greedy douchenozzle.

At this point, Putin is in a bind. He and his cronies have pretty much wrung out their usual hunting grounds, and the money has nearly all flowed upwards, so even the money that they have draped over their street thugs has come back upstream to rest, and for damn sure, they aren't giving any of it back, so they've got to have new targets to klep from.
 
2022-01-10 7:33:17 AM  

hubiestubert: ...and yet he misses the 35th...

Sort of like how a lot of the Rabid Right loves their Leviticus, and miss all the stuff about being good to your neighbors, foreigners, diet, grooming, and not being a greedy douchenozzle.

At this point, Putin is in a bind. He and his cronies have pretty much wrung out their usual hunting grounds, and the money has nearly all flowed upwards, so even the money that they have draped over their street thugs has come back upstream to rest, and for damn sure, they aren't giving any of it back, so they've got to have new targets to klep from.


Fark user imageView Full Size
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-10 7:34:34 AM  
Article cites USA interfering in Ukraine's path to membership, while also stating it maintains NATO's credibility.

These are mutually exclusive ideas. NATO has self-determination as a core concept. The United States being a veto vote for the sake of a different non-NATO member would damage the credibility of NATO.
 
2022-01-10 7:36:15 AM  
"And since neither America nor our European allies have any intention of going to war with Russia in the event of an invasion, the prospect for deterrence seems equally dismal."

Oh well. Guess Ukraine is screwed.
Maybe when it's over we can find some little dipshiat Islamic nation Israel orders us to bully for them, and make ourselves feel macho again.
 
2022-01-10 7:37:29 AM  
Putin is doing this for domestic reasons. He's presiding over a shiat hole that's getting worse and likely is in even worse shape due to Covid. If he had anything he'd already invaded. Instead he desperately wants attention to show how important he is.
 
2022-01-10 7:41:53 AM  

Discordulator: Article cites USA interfering in Ukraine's path to membership, while also stating it maintains NATO's credibility.

These are mutually exclusive ideas. NATO has self-determination as a core concept. The United States being a veto vote for the sake of a different non-NATO member would damage the credibility of NATO.


This 100%.  It's a bad look for NATO.
 
2022-01-10 7:42:11 AM  

wildcardjack: The third rule of acquisition trumps the 34th.

[YouTube video: Quark solves the problem of War with Economics]


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2022-01-10 7:43:22 AM  

Serious Post on Serious Thread: hubiestubert: ...and yet he misses the 35th...

Sort of like how a lot of the Rabid Right loves their Leviticus, and miss all the stuff about being good to your neighbors, foreigners, diet, grooming, and not being a greedy douchenozzle.

At this point, Putin is in a bind. He and his cronies have pretty much wrung out their usual hunting grounds, and the money has nearly all flowed upwards, so even the money that they have draped over their street thugs has come back upstream to rest, and for damn sure, they aren't giving any of it back, so they've got to have new targets to klep from.

[Fark user image 425x566][Fark user image 425x566]


Copy I have has them reversed. My bad. Point remains despite the numbering though.
 
2022-01-10 7:57:44 AM  

Shaggy_C: Maybe we should pose it this way: how does having Ukraine in NATO make it significantly stronger?

Seems like a lot of potential downside to accession (namely, open conflict) and limited upside (Ukraine doesn't strike me as particularly powerful able to project force abroad for future Iraq-like wars of choice.)

Leaving them a neutral buffer but letting them join the EU seems like a legitimate compromise.


Aside from getting the bonus reinforcement armies that comes with having the Ukraine in Europe, essentially, we deny it, and its resources to that comic book villain over there.
 
2022-01-10 8:02:30 AM  

Sexy Jesus: Aside from getting the bonus reinforcement armies that comes with having the Ukraine in Europe, essentially, we deny it, and its resources to that comic book villain over there.


Hence the second part of my comment about EU membership. We can bring them into the west's economic sphere even if nominally they are independent militarily. Look at Finland as an example.
 
2022-01-10 8:05:01 AM  

Meatsim1: Vlad_the_Inaner: [Fark user image image 850x850]

Ah yeah the Munich Agreement, giving warmongers every excuse they need from Korea to Vietnam to Iraq to rush off to war without a thought or plan because ObViSoUsLy war is inevitable and if we just do it now it'll be easier and less costly than waiting.

Ignore all the context of a situation, ignore possible means of peace, ignore whether or not your own military is even prepared for war, obviously we have to go now or risk being destroyed!


Russia's military is dropping like flies from COVID and the Kazakhs are revolting.  Appeasement is only logical when you are the weaker party; what makes you think the West is weaker than Russia at the moment?
 
2022-01-10 8:06:31 AM  

Mouser: Meatsim1: Vlad_the_Inaner: [Fark user image image 850x850]

Ah yeah the Munich Agreement, giving warmongers every excuse they need from Korea to Vietnam to Iraq to rush off to war without a thought or plan because ObViSoUsLy war is inevitable and if we just do it now it'll be easier and less costly than waiting.

Ignore all the context of a situation, ignore possible means of peace, ignore whether or not your own military is even prepared for war, obviously we have to go now or risk being destroyed!

Russia's military is dropping like flies from COVID and the Kazakhs are revolting.  Appeasement is only logical when you are the weaker party; what makes you think the West is weaker than Russia at the moment?


Not a godam thing.
 
2022-01-10 8:09:31 AM  
Putin is parading in his big boy panties. It's a lonely place to be. And a very dangerous one.
 
2022-01-10 8:20:26 AM  

3rd world republipuke: Mouser: Meatsim1: Vlad_the_Inaner: [Fark user image image 850x850]

Ah yeah the Munich Agreement, giving warmongers every excuse they need from Korea to Vietnam to Iraq to rush off to war without a thought or plan because ObViSoUsLy war is inevitable and if we just do it now it'll be easier and less costly than waiting.

Ignore all the context of a situation, ignore possible means of peace, ignore whether or not your own military is even prepared for war, obviously we have to go now or risk being destroyed!

Russia's military is dropping like flies from COVID and the Kazakhs are revolting.  Appeasement is only logical when you are the weaker party; what makes you think the West is weaker than Russia at the moment?

Not a godam thing.


Except the US has to sell a war to voters whereas Putin isn't accountable to his citizens at all.

Who the fark in the US is going to support a war right now? It's a great way to ensure riots and strikes at home rather than create solidarity.
 
2022-01-10 8:27:51 AM  
I would ask, what made Putin rise from East German KGB agent to become the "leader" we see today; how far from the original STASI script is he going?
 
2022-01-10 8:30:54 AM  

AdmirableSnackbar: 3rd world republipuke: Mouser: Meatsim1: Vlad_the_Inaner: [Fark user image image 850x850]

Ah yeah the Munich Agreement, giving warmongers every excuse they need from Korea to Vietnam to Iraq to rush off to war without a thought or plan because ObViSoUsLy war is inevitable and if we just do it now it'll be easier and less costly than waiting.

Ignore all the context of a situation, ignore possible means of peace, ignore whether or not your own military is even prepared for war, obviously we have to go now or risk being destroyed!

Russia's military is dropping like flies from COVID and the Kazakhs are revolting.  Appeasement is only logical when you are the weaker party; what makes you think the West is weaker than Russia at the moment?

Not a godam thing.

Except the US has to sell a war to voters whereas Putin isn't accountable to his citizens at all.

Who the fark in the US is going to support a war right now? It's a great way to ensure riots and strikes at home rather than create solidarity.


I dunno, a war with Russia, an enemy for 70 some odd years, probably won't be that hard to sell. Hatred of Russia is one of few bipartisan issues.
 
2022-01-10 8:31:16 AM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Except the US has to sell a war to voters whereas Putin isn't accountable to his citizens at all.

Who the fark in the US is going to support a war right now? It's a great way to ensure riots and strikes at home rather than create solidarity.


You left out the part that Putin has been selling war to his people for years and has the country whipped up into a patriotic fervour.

No way you're going to get the american people who only know of Ukraine from the Hunter Biden's laptop BS and can't even find it on a map to lay down their lives for it. So, your only hope is air strikes and other "light touch" operations which won't really hold back the Russians any more than they did the Taliban.
 
2022-01-10 8:31:52 AM  

Mouser: Meatsim1: Vlad_the_Inaner: [Fark user image image 850x850]

Ah yeah the Munich Agreement, giving warmongers every excuse they need from Korea to Vietnam to Iraq to rush off to war without a thought or plan because ObViSoUsLy war is inevitable and if we just do it now it'll be easier and less costly than waiting.

Ignore all the context of a situation, ignore possible means of peace, ignore whether or not your own military is even prepared for war, obviously we have to go now or risk being destroyed!

Russia's military is dropping like flies from COVID and the Kazakhs are revolting.  Appeasement is only logical when you are the weaker party; what makes you think the West is weaker than Russia at the moment?


Political division
 
2022-01-10 8:32:13 AM  

AdmirableSnackbar: Who the fark in the US is going to support a war right now? It's a great way to ensure riots and strikes at home



well, at least everyday republicans can support their favorite terrorist nation publically in the streets now that the whole "vehicular manslaughter vs mob" laws were passed. :)
 
2022-01-10 8:36:53 AM  

Tomahawk513: AdmirableSnackbar: 3rd world republipuke: Mouser: Meatsim1: Vlad_the_Inaner: [Fark user image image 850x850]

Ah yeah the Munich Agreement, giving warmongers every excuse they need from Korea to Vietnam to Iraq to rush off to war without a thought or plan because ObViSoUsLy war is inevitable and if we just do it now it'll be easier and less costly than waiting.

Ignore all the context of a situation, ignore possible means of peace, ignore whether or not your own military is even prepared for war, obviously we have to go now or risk being destroyed!

Russia's military is dropping like flies from COVID and the Kazakhs are revolting.  Appeasement is only logical when you are the weaker party; what makes you think the West is weaker than Russia at the moment?

Not a godam thing.

Except the US has to sell a war to voters whereas Putin isn't accountable to his citizens at all.

Who the fark in the US is going to support a war right now? It's a great way to ensure riots and strikes at home rather than create solidarity.

I dunno, a war with Russia, an enemy for 70 some odd years, probably won't be that hard to sell. Hatred of Russia is one of few bipartisan issues.


Boomers aren't the majority of Americans, Boomer.

Nobody under 50 gives a shiat.
 
2022-01-10 8:42:49 AM  
Solution is simple: have Ukraine join NATO tomorrow, then threaten to nuke Russia if they invade.
 
2022-01-10 8:45:18 AM  

Mouser: Meatsim1: Vlad_the_Inaner: [Fark user image image 850x850]

Ah yeah the Munich Agreement, giving warmongers every excuse they need from Korea to Vietnam to Iraq to rush off to war without a thought or plan because ObViSoUsLy war is inevitable and if we just do it now it'll be easier and less costly than waiting.

Ignore all the context of a situation, ignore possible means of peace, ignore whether or not your own military is even prepared for war, obviously we have to go now or risk being destroyed!

Russia's military is dropping like flies from COVID and the Kazakhs are revolting.  Appeasement is only logical when you are the weaker party; what makes you think the West is weaker than Russia at the moment?


What makes you think we are appeasing Russia? No European country or the US has offered Russia appeasement. We just aren't going to war.

People don't bring up the Munich Agreement unless they are advocating war because that is always the supposed lesson people take from that, "go to war now to avoid a worse war in the future"
 
2022-01-10 8:47:03 AM  

Tomahawk513: I dunno, a war with Russia, an enemy for 70 some odd years, probably won't be that hard to sell. Hatred of Russia is one of few bipartisan issues.


I don't know about that. The "old left" and the new right both love Russia, the former because of the idealism envisioned in CCCP, the latter because they love thug capitalism.

The bipartisan consensus against Russia is really just coming from the evil centrists that Fark normally hates on with a fiery passion.
 
2022-01-10 8:47:19 AM  

mistahtom: Drop the whole thing, the US has too many domestic issues to be reengaging in conflict.


Issues that Putin and his regime have done everything in their power to stoke and exacerbate. Do you think if we just ignore him and let him do whatever he wants, he'll go away? Better we get HIM reacting to US for a change.
 
2022-01-10 8:48:10 AM  
We don't have to sell a war. Simply have a few soldiers training Ukrainians on the new anti-tank and anti-air missiles near Russian troops. Vlad isn't a moron, he won't shoot while US troops are in the middle. He does that, and he's inviting an enemy with over-the-horizon kill capability to start shredding Russian troops/armor/aircraft. We can sit back and keep shredding troops and equipment he can't afford to lose. Russia only picks fights with people who can barely, if ever, shoot back effectively. He doesn't want the myth of Russia's military being tarnished, it's all he's got really.

That's before adding in any NATO ally help. Vlad can threaten to turn off the gas to Western Europe, but that threat only works once and then he's f**ked. After that he's proven he's an enemy AND proven he'll try to use fuel for blackmail. That won't be allowed to happen again, ever. Politicians might be afraid of backlash, but when it happens they will turn on the propaganda machine. Western Europe (at that point) will literally switch and bar the purchase of Russian gas, resulting in even LESS hard currency flowing into Russia. The Chinese sure as f**k won't pay as much as Europe.

Russia is a paper bear with a shiatty hand here really. You treat Vlad like a bully and push back... he pretty much has ti back down. His military is pathetic, basically floating in the reputation of the U.S.S.R. in terms of threat analysis by regular people. The Russian Army is a basket case, the Air Force is a cracked shell, and Navy is a rusting hulk with a literal dumpster fire.

The only way Vlad "wins" is to go nuclear. Vlad is a lot of things: greedy, violent, narcissistic, power hungry, and so on. Still he won't end his life one picosecond before he has to if at all possible. Heck he'd literally choose to be a head in a jar if it kept him alive for a few more minutes of life. In other words there is no way Vlad is going nuclear.

That's all you need to know about Russia and Vlad.
 
2022-01-10 8:55:28 AM  
Stinger missiles to Ukraine.  Stinger missiles, please report to Ukraine.

Hey, what about a well formed militia going over to support Ukraine against Commies 2.0?  I know some guys in tacticool that would probably love to go over and shoot commies, get an AK trophy.

I mean, they missed out on that hunting Somalia pirates plan for some reason.  But this will be just like deer hunting, except the deer can call in artillery.
 
2022-01-10 8:55:57 AM  
Wait, does that mean there's porn of Russia invading Ukraine?
 
2022-01-10 9:19:05 AM  

Harry Freakstorm: Stinger missiles to Ukraine.  Stinger missiles, please report to Ukraine.



The missiles say the A-10s are service animals and they want to bring them too.
 
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