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(Jalopnik)   China shows how with two minutes and $7 battery swap for EVs   (jalopnik.com) divider line
    More: Cool, Automobile, Battery, swappable batteries, good look, battery swap station, Battery electric vehicle, battery swapping, Tesla Motors  
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1670 clicks; posted to Business » on 29 Dec 2021 at 12:05 AM (27 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



41 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-12-28 8:58:55 PM  
This is an opportunity for serious market dislocation. Musk, Chevy and others will carpet bomb lawmakers with lobbyists claiming this is the worst thing that could ever happen to mankind. But ultimately, someone in the West will figure it out and receive the capital to deploy, large scale.

It'll be amusing to see a Westerner steal IP from a Chinese designer...
 
2021-12-28 9:10:59 PM  
i.redd.itView Full Size
 
2021-12-29 12:19:35 AM  
The catch is that you won't be allowed to acknowledge the existence of Taiwan any more
 
2021-12-29 12:40:22 AM  
Until folks figure out a game of hoarding the newest ones.
 
2021-12-29 12:49:24 AM  

EvilEgg: Until folks figure out a game of hoarding the newest ones.


I used to go get my propane tank for my grill refiled because it was nice and shiny and the tanks swap stations looked crappy. But there's no cost savings or time savings in getting a pretty tank refilled. There's zero value in "hoarding" the newest ones but there's a lot of value in someone else taking on the responsibility for failed batteries or propane tanks.
 
2021-12-29 1:01:28 AM  

beezeltown: This is an opportunity for serious market dislocation. Musk, Chevy and others will carpet bomb lawmakers with lobbyists claiming this is the worst thing that could ever happen to mankind. But ultimately, someone in the West will figure it out and receive the capital to deploy, large scale.

It'll be amusing to see a Westerner steal IP from a Chinese designer...


I can't remember the last time I saw a price in North America that was determined by the cost to deploy a service or product. You might as well say Marx's theory of value from Captial 1 determines the prices of things, for how obsolete linking IP to price is.
 
2021-12-29 1:33:45 AM  

Mr. Eugenides: EvilEgg: Until folks figure out a game of hoarding the newest ones.

I used to go get my propane tank for my grill refiled because it was nice and shiny and the tanks swap stations looked crappy. But there's no cost savings or time savings in getting a pretty tank refilled. There's zero value in "hoarding" the newest ones but there's a lot of value in someone else taking on the responsibility for failed batteries or propane tanks.


I fill my propane cylinder for 20$. Tank swaps here are 40$.

Already recouped my initial investment. I'll keep filling my propane cylinder.
 
2021-12-29 1:46:06 AM  

beezeltown: This is an opportunity for serious market dislocation. Musk, Chevy and others will carpet bomb lawmakers with lobbyists claiming this is the worst thing that could ever happen to mankind. But ultimately, someone in the West will figure it out and receive the capital to deploy, large scale.

It'll be amusing to see a Westerner steal IP from a Chinese designer...


Renault was doing this more than a decade ago.
https://www.wired.com/2009/06/renault-ev/amp
It's an old idea but nobody really wants an used battery pack.  It also turns the car into a subscription service. For fleet service it could work, but even then it would have to be carried across several models for it to really work.
 
2021-12-29 4:25:21 AM  
Talk to me when the battery packs cost less than a new car.

Also: this is the Chinese. Look for news in 6 months time about chunks of cities burning down and cars bursting into flame at stop lights, cooking their passengers alive.
 
2021-12-29 4:55:06 AM  

beezeltown: This is an opportunity for serious market dislocation. Musk, Chevy and others will carpet bomb lawmakers with lobbyists claiming this is the worst thing that could ever happen to mankind. But ultimately, someone in the West will figure it out and receive the capital to deploy, large scale.

It'll be amusing to see a Westerner steal IP from a Chinese designer...


It's not some magic tech they developed. The original Model S had this tech, but people had PTSD from the Nissan LEAF and it's horrendous degradation and they didn't make use of it. They found people tried it once and then never did it again, so they moved forward with Superchargers.

If battery swap stations become viable, all car companies will jump on it because it opens up BaaS (battery as a service). Sell the cars for a lower price and collect a monthly fee on the battery.
 
2021-12-29 5:00:07 AM  

Evil Twin Skippy: Talk to me when the battery packs cost less than a new car.

Also: this is the Chinese. Look for news in 6 months time about chunks of cities burning down and cars bursting into flame at stop lights, cooking their passengers alive.


Hey, you must have time travelled here from 1995. What do you think of The Pandemic Age?

The Chinese lead the world in EV battery tech. Don't be surprised when they storm the US and Europe with low priced, high quality EVs. It will be the Japanese Invasion all over again for established automakers. Tesla and VW are positioned the best to weather the storm. Expect other players to jam their snouts in the government trough. Toyota has already been dropping hints that they'll need help from the Japanese government. Honda is F'd in the A. Analysts expect Stellantis to crash and burn spectacularly.
 
2021-12-29 5:10:00 AM  

Siskabush: Mr. Eugenides: EvilEgg: Until folks figure out a game of hoarding the newest ones.

I used to go get my propane tank for my grill refiled because it was nice and shiny and the tanks swap stations looked crappy. But there's no cost savings or time savings in getting a pretty tank refilled. There's zero value in "hoarding" the newest ones but there's a lot of value in someone else taking on the responsibility for failed batteries or propane tanks.

I fill my propane cylinder for 20$. Tank swaps here are 40$.

Already recouped my initial investment. I'll keep filling my propane cylinder.


I swap them when they expire.
 
2021-12-29 5:22:22 AM  
How are you going to do on-the-fly battery swaps when nearly every manufacturer uses their own configurations? It would take a large lot to handle that kind of inventory.

Most EVs integrate a liquid cooling system into the battery. How would a swap station properly handle that in a timely manner?

What about EVs where the battery actually helps support the chassis? Seems like frequent swaps could conceivably cause the frame to fatigue.

I don't see battery swapping ever taking off for consumer vehicles. And very few people actually need it. Maybe for fleets that have vehicles that are always going and can standardize and keep a stock in a yard, such as public transit (like the taxis in the article).
 
2021-12-29 5:32:16 AM  
This is a good idea for a large fleet of identical vehicles all taking the same battery, all running all day, operating in a relatively constrained geographical area, and where downtime spent charging is money lost. A taxi fleet is the perfect example of that. Battery swap stations would also be handy for people who can't plug in at home or work.

OTOH, Individual car buyers aren't taxi fleets. Most people will usually have their needs met charging overnights at home. Lots of car buyers won't be comfortable trading out their new battery for a used one that might only take 88% as much charge due to degradation. The "propane tank" comparison breaks down because a propane tank's capacity doesn't go down over time.

Battery swapping - great idea for certain applications. Not as important to the average driver who can charge at home or work and doesn't drive hundreds of miles every day.
 
2021-12-29 5:40:57 AM  

spiralscratch: How are you going to do on-the-fly battery swaps when nearly every manufacturer uses their own configurations? It would take a large lot to handle that kind of inventory.

Most EVs integrate a liquid cooling system into the battery. How would a swap station properly handle that in a timely manner?

What about EVs where the battery actually helps support the chassis? Seems like frequent swaps could conceivably cause the frame to fatigue.

I don't see battery swapping ever taking off for consumer vehicles. And very few people actually need it. Maybe for fleets that have vehicles that are always going and can standardize and keep a stock in a yard, such as public transit (like the taxis in the article).


Nio is already doing it in China, and as of last year they claimed to have performed over 1,000,000 swaps.

The cooling system apparently isn't a problem, but Nio's stations also have an attendant that performs the operation, so it must be more complicated than pulling in and slapping a battery on. As for structural battery packs, yeah, they would be a no go. As that's one of the next ways we'll leap forward in range, it might not be worth it. We'll see where the market goes.
 
hej
2021-12-29 5:48:18 AM  

beezeltown: This is an opportunity for serious market dislocation. Musk, Chevy and others will carpet bomb lawmakers with lobbyists claiming this is the worst thing that could ever happen to mankind.


Gonna need an explanation on this one
 
2021-12-29 6:23:41 AM  
This is where the large oil companies, car companies and the US government missed the boat.  30 years ago they should have locked a bunch of electrical engineers in room and not let them out until they came up with some standards on battery and charging receptacles.  Then instead of fighting and lying about climate change they could have lead the way with service stations that sold gas and did battery swaps and cars from all the major manufacturers that were designed to handle swaps as quickly as filling your tank.  Instead they went with SUVs and fossil fuels and, well here we are. Fark those bastards.  I hope there's a Hell and they are forced to eat gold for eternity for what they did to the planet.
 
2021-12-29 6:37:03 AM  

Marksrevenge: This is a good idea for a large fleet of identical vehicles all taking the same battery, all running all day, operating in a relatively constrained geographical area, and where downtime spent charging is money lost. A taxi fleet is the perfect example of that. Battery swap stations would also be handy for people who can't plug in at home or work.

OTOH, Individual car buyers aren't taxi fleets. Most people will usually have their needs met charging overnights at home. Lots of car buyers won't be comfortable trading out their new battery for a used one that might only take 88% as much charge due to degradation. The "propane tank" comparison breaks down because a propane tank's capacity doesn't go down over time.

Battery swapping - great idea for certain applications. Not as important to the average driver who can charge at home or work and doesn't drive hundreds of miles every day.


The degraded batteries are dropped out of circulation, read the article.
 
2021-12-29 6:52:23 AM  

Bathtub Cynic: Marksrevenge: This is a good idea for a large fleet of identical vehicles all taking the same battery, all running all day, operating in a relatively constrained geographical area, and where downtime spent charging is money lost. A taxi fleet is the perfect example of that. Battery swap stations would also be handy for people who can't plug in at home or work.

OTOH, Individual car buyers aren't taxi fleets. Most people will usually have their needs met charging overnights at home. Lots of car buyers won't be comfortable trading out their new battery for a used one that might only take 88% as much charge due to degradation. The "propane tank" comparison breaks down because a propane tank's capacity doesn't go down over time.

Battery swapping - great idea for certain applications. Not as important to the average driver who can charge at home or work and doesn't drive hundreds of miles every day.

The degraded batteries are dropped out of circulation, read the article.


I did read it. It doesn't say at what point of degradation the batteries are removed from EV service. Unless there's a graphic I missed due to not wanting to allow two dozen scripts to run (thanks Jalopnik).
 
2021-12-29 8:06:50 AM  
If it makes sense for the consumer then it probably won't happen. The problem of buying a used EV and replacing the battery is something that we should be thinking about.
 
2021-12-29 8:29:47 AM  

runwiz: If it makes sense for the consumer then it probably won't happen. The problem of buying a used EV and replacing the battery is something that we should be thinking about.


It's not really going to be a problem moving forward. Bigger packs with liquid cooling and cutting edge chemistries have essentially eliminated the issue already, and it's only going to get better moving forward. Degradation will still exist, but you'll buy a car with 300 miles of range and sell it with 280 miles of range or something. By the time the rest of the car poops out, it will still go 250 miles and the battery can start a new 20+ year life as PV storage on the side of a building.

The industry also looks to be moving toward iron-based LFP batteries for more affordable models. They can handle 4000 cycles before hitting 80% capacity. Even a smaller pack that's only rated for 200 or 250 miles will easily outlast the rest of the vehicle. As a bonus, they use none of the problematic metals of currently popular chemistries, and they don't suffer thermal runaway even when severely damaged.
 
2021-12-29 8:36:44 AM  
Integrating the battery into the frame for strength makes for lighter, smaller frames. Swappable batteries forces the car to be designed around a battery that has to be bulky enough to take the abuse of swapping. Cars that are bland boxes of boring garbage.

Plus i don't want to roll the dice on how much allowed degradation each fill up will have. Maybe I'll have 50 miles less range today. Maybe 100?

I also want to keep control of how my battery is charged. I want to charge it off solar, or cheap night rates. Definitely not give control of the cost to another middleman.

This system is a cludge. It locks in today's battery tech and size. If every car uses this system you can't upgrade a battery without making every car on the road incompatible. All for the benefit of a 10 minute swap, when charging tech will be there soon enough, anyway.
 
2021-12-29 8:50:29 AM  
Battery swapping is a great idea for heavy trucks. There's this nice, easily accessible, rectangular area between the main I-beams that's perfect for the process.  Australia is piloting a program.
 
2021-12-29 8:57:33 AM  

Marksrevenge: Bathtub Cynic: Marksrevenge: This is a good idea for a large fleet of identical vehicles all taking the same battery, all running all day, operating in a relatively constrained geographical area, and where downtime spent charging is money lost. A taxi fleet is the perfect example of that. Battery swap stations would also be handy for people who can't plug in at home or work.

OTOH, Individual car buyers aren't taxi fleets. Most people will usually have their needs met charging overnights at home. Lots of car buyers won't be comfortable trading out their new battery for a used one that might only take 88% as much charge due to degradation. The "propane tank" comparison breaks down because a propane tank's capacity doesn't go down over time.

Battery swapping - great idea for certain applications. Not as important to the average driver who can charge at home or work and doesn't drive hundreds of miles every day.

The degraded batteries are dropped out of circulation, read the article.

I did read it. It doesn't say at what point of degradation the batteries are removed from EV service. Unless there's a graphic I missed due to not wanting to allow two dozen scripts to run (thanks Jalopnik).


Yeah, it's not like they're going to pull the batteries that can still hold 95% of their charge from service.  For forklift batteries at my factory they usually have to get to the mid 70's before they're replaced... and even then they're only used by the operators if every other single battery is still charging.

As other's have pointed out, this makes perfect sense for fleet vehicles, particularly taxi cabs and police cars, as they're often in use 24 hours a day.
 
2021-12-29 9:12:50 AM  

electricjebus: Marksrevenge: Bathtub Cynic: Marksrevenge: This is a good idea for a large fleet of identical vehicles all taking the same battery, all running all day, operating in a relatively constrained geographical area, and where downtime spent charging is money lost. A taxi fleet is the perfect example of that. Battery swap stations would also be handy for people who can't plug in at home or work.

OTOH, Individual car buyers aren't taxi fleets. Most people will usually have their needs met charging overnights at home. Lots of car buyers won't be comfortable trading out their new battery for a used one that might only take 88% as much charge due to degradation. The "propane tank" comparison breaks down because a propane tank's capacity doesn't go down over time.

Battery swapping - great idea for certain applications. Not as important to the average driver who can charge at home or work and doesn't drive hundreds of miles every day.

The degraded batteries are dropped out of circulation, read the article.

I did read it. It doesn't say at what point of degradation the batteries are removed from EV service. Unless there's a graphic I missed due to not wanting to allow two dozen scripts to run (thanks Jalopnik).

Yeah, it's not like they're going to pull the batteries that can still hold 95% of their charge from service.  For forklift batteries at my factory they usually have to get to the mid 70's before they're replaced... and even then they're only used by the operators if every other single battery is still charging.

As other's have pointed out, this makes perfect sense for fleet vehicles, particularly taxi cabs and police cars, as they're often in use 24 hours a day.


It makes sense for consumers as well if you're making batteries a subscription service, which is undoubtedly the long term goal of this. It doesn't much matter if the battery you get is degraded if there's another swap station easily within range.
 
2021-12-29 10:10:02 AM  
$7 in the title is clickbait.  I can get my local mechanic to swap out the motor in my car when it loses it's efficiency, but that means I would have to buy another motor, and pay the labor.   How much did this entirely different battery pack that was swapped out cost?  Was in $22,000?
 
2021-12-29 10:19:37 AM  

caljar: $7 in the title is clickbait.  I can get my local mechanic to swap out the motor in my car when it loses it's efficiency, but that means I would have to buy another motor, and pay the labor.   How much did this entirely different battery pack that was swapped out cost?  Was in $22,000?


I expect willful ignorance in any EV-related thread, but Jesus. RTFA
 
2021-12-29 10:50:59 AM  

Likwit: electricjebus: Marksrevenge: Bathtub Cynic: Marksrevenge: This is a good idea for a large fleet of identical vehicles all taking the same battery, all running all day, operating in a relatively constrained geographical area, and where downtime spent charging is money lost. A taxi fleet is the perfect example of that. Battery swap stations would also be handy for people who can't plug in at home or work.

OTOH, Individual car buyers aren't taxi fleets. Most people will usually have their needs met charging overnights at home. Lots of car buyers won't be comfortable trading out their new battery for a used one that might only take 88% as much charge due to degradation. The "propane tank" comparison breaks down because a propane tank's capacity doesn't go down over time.

Battery swapping - great idea for certain applications. Not as important to the average driver who can charge at home or work and doesn't drive hundreds of miles every day.

The degraded batteries are dropped out of circulation, read the article.

I did read it. It doesn't say at what point of degradation the batteries are removed from EV service. Unless there's a graphic I missed due to not wanting to allow two dozen scripts to run (thanks Jalopnik).

Yeah, it's not like they're going to pull the batteries that can still hold 95% of their charge from service.  For forklift batteries at my factory they usually have to get to the mid 70's before they're replaced... and even then they're only used by the operators if every other single battery is still charging.

As other's have pointed out, this makes perfect sense for fleet vehicles, particularly taxi cabs and police cars, as they're often in use 24 hours a day.

It makes sense for consumers as well if you're making batteries a subscription service, which is undoubtedly the long term goal of this. It doesn't much matter if the battery you get is degraded if there's another swap station easily within range.


I hope my next car is an EV, but I don't know if I'd trust a 3rd party to own such an important component in a vehicle I own.  A bad battery could easily ruin an otherwise $50,000 vehicle when I could just buy the car, battery and charger.  I rarely drive more than 70 miles a day, why not just plug it in overnight and rent a car when I'm driving to California to visit family?

That way I know the last yahoo who effectively rented the battery didn't drive it through a flash flooded street.
 
2021-12-29 12:15:40 PM  

relaxitsjustme: This is where the large oil companies, car companies and the US government missed the boat.  30 years ago they should have locked a bunch of electrical engineers in room and not let them out until they came up with some standards on battery and charging receptacles.


Batteries in EVs 30 years ago were usually lead-acid.  They started shifting to nickel-metal hydride batteries (NiMH) around 1999 with the second-gen EV1 and to lithium-ion batteries (li-ion) around 2008 with the Tesla Roadster.  So locking folks in a room back then when EVs were in their infancy for some forward thinking battery standard would have been a waste.

And the industry did come together to develop the SAE J1772 standard for conductive charging for the California ZEV market.  The California Air Resource Board passed a rule in 2001 requiring all EVs to follow the standard.  Europe used it as the basis for their IEC 62196 standard, as did Tesla for their standards.

My complaint is that government and industry didn't release a fast DC charging specification, IEC 62196-3 CCS, until late 2011.  By then Tesla had already developed its own fast DC extension of J1772 for North America and of IEC 62196-2 for Europe.  That's really where the ball was dropped.
 
2021-12-29 12:35:21 PM  

Dinjiin: relaxitsjustme: This is where the large oil companies, car companies and the US government missed the boat.  30 years ago they should have locked a bunch of electrical engineers in room and not let them out until they came up with some standards on battery and charging receptacles.

Batteries in EVs 30 years ago were usually lead-acid.  They started shifting to nickel-metal hydride batteries (NiMH) around 1999 with the second-gen EV1 and to lithium-ion batteries (li-ion) around 2008 with the Tesla Roadster.  So locking folks in a room back then when EVs were in their infancy for some forward thinking battery standard would have been a waste.

And the industry did come together to develop the SAE J1772 standard for conductive charging for the California ZEV market.  The California Air Resource Board passed a rule in 2001 requiring all EVs to follow the standard.  Europe used it as the basis for their IEC 62196 standard, as did Tesla for their standards.

My complaint is that government and industry didn't release a fast DC charging specification, IEC 62196-3 CCS, until late 2011.  By then Tesla had already developed its own fast DC extension of J1772 for North America and of IEC 62196-2 for Europe.  That's really where the ball was dropped.


Battery swapping is solving a problem that is going away anyhow.  Nio, mentioned in the article is rolling out a new car the ET7, with a range of 600 miles.  600 miles would handle 99% of use cases.
 
2021-12-29 12:35:39 PM  

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Dinjiin: relaxitsjustme: This is where the large oil companies, car companies and the US government missed the boat.  30 years ago they should have locked a bunch of electrical engineers in room and not let them out until they came up with some standards on battery and charging receptacles.

Batteries in EVs 30 years ago were usually lead-acid.  They started shifting to nickel-metal hydride batteries (NiMH) around 1999 with the second-gen EV1 and to lithium-ion batteries (li-ion) around 2008 with the Tesla Roadster.  So locking folks in a room back then when EVs were in their infancy for some forward thinking battery standard would have been a waste.

And the industry did come together to develop the SAE J1772 standard for conductive charging for the California ZEV market.  The California Air Resource Board passed a rule in 2001 requiring all EVs to follow the standard.  Europe used it as the basis for their IEC 62196 standard, as did Tesla for their standards.

My complaint is that government and industry didn't release a fast DC charging specification, IEC 62196-3 CCS, until late 2011.  By then Tesla had already developed its own fast DC extension of J1772 for North America and of IEC 62196-2 for Europe.  That's really where the ball was dropped.

Battery swapping is solving a problem that is going away anyhow.  Nio, mentioned in the article is rolling out a new car the ET7, with a range of 600 miles.  600 miles would handle 99% of use cases.


https://insideevs.com/news/547425/nio-et7-prototype-walkaround-video/
 
2021-12-29 12:58:18 PM  

Siskabush: I fill my propane cylinder for 20$. Tank swaps here are 40$


Northern CT, normally ~$20-$25 for a swap.
 
2021-12-29 1:18:29 PM  

Siskabush: Mr. Eugenides: EvilEgg: Until folks figure out a game of hoarding the newest ones.

I used to go get my propane tank for my grill refiled because it was nice and shiny and the tanks swap stations looked crappy. But there's no cost savings or time savings in getting a pretty tank refilled. There's zero value in "hoarding" the newest ones but there's a lot of value in someone else taking on the responsibility for failed batteries or propane tanks.

I fill my propane cylinder for 20$. Tank swaps here are 40$.

Already recouped my initial investment. I'll keep filling my propane cylinder.


My economics are a bit different. A tank swap is $28 at the corner gas station. A fill is a bit over $20 and a 20 mile drive to Hank Hill's propane and propane accessories.
 
2021-12-29 1:22:00 PM  

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Battery swapping is solving a problem that is going away anyhow. Nio, mentioned in the article is rolling out a new car the ET7, with a range of 600 miles. 600 miles would handle 99% of use cases.


That's the way I look at it, too.  From a logistical and capital standpoint, rolling out self-serve charging stations (even with two or three different plug standards) is so much cheaper and easier than standing up a business that has to deal with the facility, labor, and inventory headaches of battery swapping.  By the time that infrastructure is fully up and running everywhere, batteries for most vehicles will be good enough that it won't be worth the premium outside of the commercial shipping sector.

Meanwhile, the new Kia EV6 LR can drive almost 800 miles at freeway speeds (about 12 hours of driving) while only needing 80 minutes of charging time.  I can also drive around town all day without needing to top up.  That's good enough that I am thinking of skipping the plug-in hybrid route for my next vehicle once the manufacturing shortage subsides.
 
2021-12-29 3:10:35 PM  
So now you have to pay for the battery in your car but also a group buy of reserve batteries and the infrastructure to service it?

sounds more expensive.
 
2021-12-29 3:49:59 PM  

mrlewish: So now you have to pay for the battery in your car but also a group buy of reserve batteries and the infrastructure to service it?

sounds more expensive.


Yep, let's play for a whole industry of gasoline salesmen 2.0
 
2021-12-29 3:50:17 PM  

fehk: mrlewish: So now you have to pay for the battery in your car but also a group buy of reserve batteries and the infrastructure to service it?

sounds more expensive.

Yep, let's play for a whole industry of gasoline salesmen 2.0


Pay*
 
hej
2021-12-30 7:32:42 AM  

mrlewish: So now you have to pay for the battery in your car but also a group buy of reserve batteries and the infrastructure to service it?

sounds more expensive.


Generally in a lease/subscription model, you aren't paying up front for the cost of the first battery, let alone the 'reserve' batteries and the infrastructure.
 
2021-12-30 10:44:56 AM  

Likwit: caljar: $7 in the title is clickbait.  I can get my local mechanic to swap out the motor in my car when it loses it's efficiency, but that means I would have to buy another motor, and pay the labor.   How much did this entirely different battery pack that was swapped out cost?  Was in $22,000?

I expect willful ignorance in any EV-related thread, but Jesus. RTFA


The battery pack in a Tesla cost $22,000.  If it costs around $40 to swap out a 20 lb propane tank that has $20 worth of gas in it, how much is it actually going to cost to swap out a multi thousand dollars battery pack?  Is someone just going to give you a free brand new battery pack? Is someone other than the Chinese government going to actually give you a $22,000 battery pack for $7?  Where does this extra battery pack come from?  Will you sell me a battery pack for $7, because I can barely buy a set of rechargeable flashlight batteries for that amount.
 
2021-12-30 11:06:22 AM  

caljar: Likwit: caljar: $7 in the title is clickbait.  I can get my local mechanic to swap out the motor in my car when it loses it's efficiency, but that means I would have to buy another motor, and pay the labor.   How much did this entirely different battery pack that was swapped out cost?  Was in $22,000?

I expect willful ignorance in any EV-related thread, but Jesus. RTFA

The battery pack in a Tesla cost $22,000.  If it costs around $40 to swap out a 20 lb propane tank that has $20 worth of gas in it, how much is it actually going to cost to swap out a multi thousand dollars battery pack?  Is someone just going to give you a free brand new battery pack? Is someone other than the Chinese government going to actually give you a $22,000 battery pack for $7?  Where does this extra battery pack come from?  Will you sell me a battery pack for $7, because I can barely buy a set of rechargeable flashlight batteries for that amount.


😐
 
hej
2021-12-30 11:44:44 AM  

caljar: Likwit: caljar: $7 in the title is clickbait.  I can get my local mechanic to swap out the motor in my car when it loses it's efficiency, but that means I would have to buy another motor, and pay the labor.   How much did this entirely different battery pack that was swapped out cost?  Was in $22,000?

I expect willful ignorance in any EV-related thread, but Jesus. RTFA

The battery pack in a Tesla cost $22,000.  If it costs around $40 to swap out a 20 lb propane tank that has $20 worth of gas in it, how much is it actually going to cost to swap out a multi thousand dollars battery pack?  Is someone just going to give you a free brand new battery pack? Is someone other than the Chinese government going to actually give you a $22,000 battery pack for $7?  Where does this extra battery pack come from?  Will you sell me a battery pack for $7, because I can barely buy a set of rechargeable flashlight batteries for that amount.


The part you don't seem to get is that you don't "own" the battery, you are leasing one.
 
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