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(Slate)   And now for some good news about Americans and money. Tl;dr: If you give them enough government handouts and take away most of their spending opportunities, they actually start to build a savings. Just like rich people. Whoda thunk it   (slate.com) divider line
    More: Murica, Taxation in the United States, Child tax credit, JPMorgan Chase, Chase, monthly child tax credit payments, New York Times, Household income in the United States, Bank of America  
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1730 clicks; posted to Politics » and Business » on 09 Dec 2021 at 9:05 AM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-12-09 9:06:39 AM  
I was working the entire time so I just put my stimulus checks in my Roth.
 
2021-12-09 9:10:40 AM  

the unabomber was right: I was working the entire time so I just put my stimulus checks in my Roth.


My wife and I worked the whole time, we dealt with her credit cards so we can actually think about a down payment for a house.

Now if housing prices could stop rising at a rate of 1% per day that would be awesome
 
2021-12-09 9:10:47 AM  
Covid taught us that we work to live - not live to work. It's been horrible but there were some learning benefits that came out of it.
*goes back to his newly-acquired cheese-making hobby*
 
2021-12-09 9:10:52 AM  
So, it turns out if you give poor people money they generally make responsible decisions with it? Has someone been lying to me for decades about them spending it on lobster?
 
2021-12-09 9:11:13 AM  
So, if people don't spend, they save? Hold on, I think I need to write this down.
 
2021-12-09 9:13:23 AM  

The Irresponsible Captain: So, it turns out if you give poor people money they generally make responsible decisions with it? Has someone been lying to me for decades about them spending it on lobster?


I spent mine on a high end designer backpack but I wasn't poor before so I think it's okay.
 
2021-12-09 9:18:19 AM  

Weatherkiss: So, if people don't spend, they save? Hold on, I think I need to write this down.


And there is absolutely nothing coming up soon that they might have saved some money for.
 
2021-12-09 9:19:19 AM  

The Irresponsible Captain: So, it turns out if you give poor people money they generally make responsible decisions with it? Has someone been lying to me for decades about them spending it on lobster?


I bet most of them even own a refrigerator.
 
2021-12-09 9:19:31 AM  
They also suspended Federal Student Loan Payments. There's something like 45 million borrowers with an average payment of $400 a month. That's a lot of extra money people can be putting in savings.

Shows even a modest universal basic income combined with a restructuring of our debt (student/commercial/medical) laws could lead to the creation of a lot of actual wealth for middle and working class Americans.
 
2021-12-09 9:19:33 AM  
Hey, I'll bet it works even better if you pay people more too.
 
2021-12-09 9:21:30 AM  

Lvl 19 bureaucrat: They also suspended Federal Student Loan Payments. There's something like 45 million borrowers with an average payment of $400 a month. That's a lot of extra money people can be putting in savings.

Shows even a modest universal basic income combined with a restructuring of our debt (student/commercial/medical) laws could lead to the creation of a lot of actual wealth for middle and working class Americans.


If you create wealth for the middle class it lessens the amount of gain that the people at the top can horde.
 
2021-12-09 9:22:36 AM  

The Irresponsible Captain: So, it turns out if you give poor people money they generally make responsible decisions with it? Has someone been lying to me for decades about them spending it on lobster?


Uhm, no. You have to also eliminate the frivolous products and services. That was the second part of the headline. The (actually) rich people don't have this issue. They might have $20 million available to spend, but they don't see a new yacht on sale and think - hey, I have $20 million. I have just enough to buy it. That is really the key difference. It is also why lottery winners are frequently poor again within a few years. They are used to spending what they have so they continue to spend but on much more expensive purchases.
 
2021-12-09 9:22:37 AM  
 
2021-12-09 9:23:03 AM  

WhackingDay: Hey, I'll bet it works even better if you pay people more too.


What a terrible thing to say! If you pay people more, the job creators (PBUT) won't be able to create as many jobs. So by paying people more, you're actually hurting them. I hope you'll take some time to reflect upon your mistaken and harmful idea, and rethink things.
 
2021-12-09 9:27:18 AM  

The Irresponsible Captain: So, it turns out if you give poor people money they generally make responsible decisions with it? Has someone been lying to me for decades about them spending it on lobster?


If poor people actually wanted to use their money responsibly all they ever had to do was ask their parents to cash in some stocks for them.

Sincerely,

The NYT editorial team
 
2021-12-09 9:28:37 AM  

madgonad: The Irresponsible Captain: So, it turns out if you give poor people money they generally make responsible decisions with it? Has someone been lying to me for decades about them spending it on lobster?

Uhm, no. You have to also eliminate the frivolous products and services. That was the second part of the headline. The (actually) rich people don't have this issue. They might have $20 million available to spend, but they don't see a new yacht on sale and think - hey, I have $20 million. I have just enough to buy it. That is really the key difference. It is also why lottery winners are frequently poor again within a few years. They are used to spending what they have so they continue to spend but on much more expensive purchases.


Yeah because Amazon is so hard to use.
 
2021-12-09 9:35:24 AM  

madgonad: The Irresponsible Captain: So, it turns out if you give poor people money they generally make responsible decisions with it? Has someone been lying to me for decades about them spending it on lobster?

Uhm, no. You have to also eliminate the frivolous products and services. That was the second part of the headline. The (actually) rich people don't have this issue. They might have $20 million available to spend, but they don't see a new yacht on sale and think - hey, I have $20 million. I have just enough to buy it. That is really the key difference. It is also why lottery winners are frequently poor again within a few years. They are used to spending what they have so they continue to spend but on much more expensive purchases.


I'd buy that if it wasn't for the fact you can literally buy anything online. From trinkets to cars and houses.
 
2021-12-09 9:47:19 AM  
Klivian:

I have no idea how anyone buys a house for the first time without the proceeds from the last house to counter act the rising costs.

Bought my house for 200k 3 years ago, which sold  for 100k like 10 years ago.  It's now worth 280. Id like to move to a new place, but I don't think I can afford to go anywhere else near me
 
2021-12-09 9:49:04 AM  

Lvl 19 bureaucrat: They also suspended Federal Student Loan Payments. There's something like 45 million borrowers with an average payment of $400 a month. That's a lot of extra money people can be putting in savings.

Shows even a modest universal basic income combined with a restructuring of our debt (student/commercial/medical) laws could lead to the creation of a lot of actual wealth for middle and working class Americans.


And we can't have that happening now, can we.
 
2021-12-09 9:50:24 AM  

madgonad: The Irresponsible Captain: So, it turns out if you give poor people money they generally make responsible decisions with it? Has someone been lying to me for decades about them spending it on lobster?

Uhm, no. You have to also eliminate the frivolous products and services. That was the second part of the headline. The (actually) rich people don't have this issue. They might have $20 million available to spend, but they don't see a new yacht on sale and think - hey, I have $20 million. I have just enough to buy it. That is really the key difference. It is also why lottery winners are frequently poor again within a few years. They are used to spending what they have so they continue to spend but on much more expensive purchases.


We call this the, "too many fillet mignons and lobster dinners" theory of a American poverty.
 
2021-12-09 9:53:21 AM  

The Irresponsible Captain: So, it turns out if you give poor people money they generally make responsible decisions with it? Has someone been lying to me for decades about them spending it on lobster?


People save it, until the spending opportunity comes back.

It's part of why we have supply chain and inflation issues now - increased demand from people spending shutdown savings.
 
2021-12-09 9:53:33 AM  

FleshFlapps: madgonad: The Irresponsible Captain: So, it turns out if you give poor people money they generally make responsible decisions with it? Has someone been lying to me for decades about them spending it on lobster?

Uhm, no. You have to also eliminate the frivolous products and services. That was the second part of the headline. The (actually) rich people don't have this issue. They might have $20 million available to spend, but they don't see a new yacht on sale and think - hey, I have $20 million. I have just enough to buy it. That is really the key difference. It is also why lottery winners are frequently poor again within a few years. They are used to spending what they have so they continue to spend but on much more expensive purchases.

I'd buy that if it wasn't for the fact you can literally buy anything online. From trinkets to cars and houses.


You missed the point. The rich can buy all kinds of nonsense, but they don't. They buy what they need and carefully measure how much they spend on the 'extras' in life. That's how they stay rich. The working poor got a big chunk of extra money. Those that worked through the pandemic accumulated a lot. They didn't have nearly as many spending opportunities. Concerts were cancelled. The new gaming console was hard to find. Nobody was doing anything. So money piled up (or they retired debt).
 
2021-12-09 9:55:23 AM  

the unabomber was right: I was working the entire time so I just put my stimulus checks in my Roth.


Paid off my car here.
 
2021-12-09 9:58:56 AM  
Well, the important thing is that you can find some justification for blaming the poor for their poverty.
It doesn't have to be a good reason - you aren't trying to convince smart people anyway - just the American voter.
 
2021-12-09 9:59:43 AM  
That's terrible. America runs on the idea of endless consumerism. Spend spend spend!
 
2021-12-09 10:03:08 AM  

FleshFlapps: Lvl 19 bureaucrat: They also suspended Federal Student Loan Payments. There's something like 45 million borrowers with an average payment of $400 a month. That's a lot of extra money people can be putting in savings.

Shows even a modest universal basic income combined with a restructuring of our debt (student/commercial/medical) laws could lead to the creation of a lot of actual wealth for middle and working class Americans.

If you create wealth for the middle class it lessens the amount of gain that the people at the top can horde.


yeah that seems to be the rub of it.
 
2021-12-09 10:08:20 AM  

madgonad: The Irresponsible Captain: So, it turns out if you give poor people money they generally make responsible decisions with it? Has someone been lying to me for decades about them spending it on lobster?

Uhm, no. You have to also eliminate the frivolous products and services. That was the second part of the headline. The (actually) rich people don't have this issue. They might have $20 million available to spend, but they don't see a new yacht on sale and think - hey, I have $20 million. I have just enough to buy it. That is really the key difference. It is also why lottery winners are frequently poor again within a few years. They are used to spending what they have so they continue to spend but on much more expensive purchases.


I had no idea poor people stay poor because they buy yachts when they see them. I always thought it's because they make subsistence wages. TIL.
 
2021-12-09 10:13:01 AM  

madgonad: FleshFlapps: madgonad: The Irresponsible Captain: So, it turns out if you give poor people money they generally make responsible decisions with it? Has someone been lying to me for decades about them spending it on lobster?

Uhm, no. You have to also eliminate the frivolous products and services. That was the second part of the headline. The (actually) rich people don't have this issue. They might have $20 million available to spend, but they don't see a new yacht on sale and think - hey, I have $20 million. I have just enough to buy it. That is really the key difference. It is also why lottery winners are frequently poor again within a few years. They are used to spending what they have so they continue to spend but on much more expensive purchases.

I'd buy that if it wasn't for the fact you can literally buy anything online. From trinkets to cars and houses.

You missed the point. The rich can buy all kinds of nonsense, but they don't. They buy what they need and carefully measure how much they spend on the 'extras' in life. That's how they stay rich. The working poor got a big chunk of extra money. Those that worked through the pandemic accumulated a lot. They didn't have nearly as many spending opportunities. Concerts were cancelled. The new gaming console was hard to find. Nobody was doing anything. So money piled up (or they retired debt).


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2021-12-09 10:15:10 AM  

Lambskincoat: madgonad: The Irresponsible Captain: So, it turns out if you give poor people money they generally make responsible decisions with it? Has someone been lying to me for decades about them spending it on lobster?

Uhm, no. You have to also eliminate the frivolous products and services. That was the second part of the headline. The (actually) rich people don't have this issue. They might have $20 million available to spend, but they don't see a new yacht on sale and think - hey, I have $20 million. I have just enough to buy it. That is really the key difference. It is also why lottery winners are frequently poor again within a few years. They are used to spending what they have so they continue to spend but on much more expensive purchases.

We call this the, "too many fillet mignons and lobster dinners" theory of a American poverty.


So there's a sliver of truth to the idea - poverty alters brain functions, and can lead to decisions that seem rational to the poor person but not to someone else.

But that just becomes a further indictment of the "poor people will waste money" line of thinking, because if you give them an ACTUAL lifeline out of poverty, the bad-decision making eventually disappears.
 
2021-12-09 10:22:05 AM  
There must be a shortage of Cadillacs and cell phones.
 
2021-12-09 10:22:28 AM  

The Irresponsible Captain: So, it turns out if you give poor people money they generally make responsible decisions with it? Has someone been lying to me for decades about them spending it on lobster?


no one wastes money like the rich.
 
2021-12-09 10:24:23 AM  

UNC_Samurai: But that just becomes a further indictment of the "poor people will waste money" line of thinking, because if you give them an ACTUAL lifeline out of poverty, the bad-decision making eventually disappears.


Actually no. The rate of bankruptcies following lottery wins proves it fairly well. The real lifeline out of poverty is a job that doesn't pay shiat wages and learning how to manage personal finances. Too many people live like corporations - focused only on the next quarter.
 
2021-12-09 10:28:41 AM  
Time to sit back and watch that sweet, sweet .3% interest start rolling in . . . Seriously, you too can become a millionaire, all you need to do is have $100,000 in savings and wait 300 years, it's that easy!
 
2021-12-09 10:36:53 AM  
"Take away their spending opportunities"  "TAKE AWAY THEIR SPENDING OPPORTUNITIES"
Wow.  are you actually patting yourself on the back for being some kind of savvy consumer?  Like, Wow.
You must work in marketing, to lie so abjectly about something that is so easy to disprove.
Someone forced you to not go out for year, and gave you money, and now you're so proud of yourself?  Wow.  That's mighty white of you, coming from the most spoiled, consumptive, porky population in history.

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Well, here's a necessary expense!  I can see that Americans really are tightening their belts.

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Oh my god, look at those RV sales!  Right in the middle of a pandemic!  It's almost like nobody paid any farking attention to a worldwide pandemic, because they're Americans and they do what they want!  Right, Farkers? Then you post some article on the internet to make you feel better about it.  Or, even better--you never gave a fark in the first place. You buy everything, and you think you're a self-sufficient stud because you learned how to  ordered out your liquor when your bar closed down.

Fark user imageView Full Size


Another totally necessary expense!  What are you going to do when the world is hostile and going to harm you?  Why, you buy some more shiat so that you don't have to think about what your VERY OWN ACTIONS are doing to cause that.

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Canada--those slobs.  Well, it's only because they live in a tropical paradise, so they can exercise anytime they want.  We have to deal with WEATHER, and since it's important to keep our thoroughbred bodies in peak condition, we have to pay for it.  Canadians don't eh.  That's why they are like they are--

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---Thinner than us.


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Anybody here make $55,000 a  year or more?  Anyone, anyone?  Top 10% of the world--and top 1% in emissions.  CONGRATULASHINS

Thank you, and we intend to do just as well this year, maybe even better!

Fark user imageView Full Size


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Are you getting some food delivered?  You bet your ass you are.  How you have suffered.  The pandemic has made paupers of us all--but mostly those who have to work for your lazy ass, because you're peak consumer and you don't lift a finger for less than $75 an hour.

I bet it's marketers who made us all think that our shiat doesn't stink, either, and that we can do anything we want, because the world revolves around us.
You're even lower than that, because you thought that was a good thing to monetize.

So in conclusion, I hate all of you

Fark user imageView Full Size

Make sure you get it ALL.
 
2021-12-09 10:39:13 AM  

Lvl 19 bureaucrat: They also suspended Federal Student Loan Payments. There's something like 45 million borrowers with an average payment of $400 a month. That's a lot of extra money people can be putting in savings.

Shows even a modest universal basic income combined with a restructuring of our debt (student/commercial/medical) laws could lead to the creation of a lot of actual wealth for middle and working class Americans.


But then how will billionaires fling themselves into orbit on giant phalluses?
 
2021-12-09 10:40:01 AM  

dylanthomas: Time to sit back and watch that sweet, sweet .3% interest start rolling in . . . Seriously, you too can become a millionaire, all you need to do is have $100,000 in savings and wait 300 years, it's that easy!


You are not compounding correctly.
 
2021-12-09 10:45:41 AM  

oldfarthenry: Covid taught us that we work to live - not live to work. It's been horrible but there were some learning benefits that came out of it.
*goes back to his newly-acquired cheese-making hobby*


SWEET.  Dad retired a decade ago.  Grandma was still in a nursing home withering way with dementia.  So when parents' came back down from their now real home up north and mom went to visit her mom, dad busied himself making cheese.  We counted the days until the first 6 months to crack open the wax covered goodness.

Enjoy.

/its all about the pH apparently.
 
2021-12-09 10:49:16 AM  

The Irresponsible Captain: So, it turns out if you give poor people money they generally make responsible decisions with it? Has someone been lying to me for decades about them spending it on lobster?


You must live in a nice area, where the poors spend their money on lobster. Around here, I was told they spend all their money on drugs.
 
2021-12-09 10:50:08 AM  

madgonad: The Irresponsible Captain: So, it turns out if you give poor people money they generally make responsible decisions with it? Has someone been lying to me for decades about them spending it on lobster?

Uhm, no. You have to also eliminate the frivolous products and services. That was the second part of the headline. The (actually) rich people don't have this issue. They might have $20 million available to spend, but they don't see a new yacht on sale and think - hey, I have $20 million. I have just enough to buy it. That is really the key difference. It is also why lottery winners are frequently poor again within a few years. They are used to spending what they have so they continue to spend but on much more expensive purchases.


Ugh, for the umpteenth time, it's really not that rich people are more responsible with their money. It's that there's a limit to how much money you can reasonably spend in a year, and things are generally cheaper for the wealthy than for the poor. Unless you already have deep-seated underlying issues (like many lottery winners who have gambling and other addictions and a life-time's worth of undiagnosed issues from being poor) you just can't blow it all easily.

Rich/wealthy people do not get that way by living frugally and being good at budgeting. They get that way by having large incomes. That guy in your scenario with $20 million is earning at least $2 million per year just having his money sit in an index fund. He can afford to buy that $20,000,000 yacht using a 30 year boat mortgage, and he'll be paying 3% interest for a toy while the guy who scrubs the toilets on his yacht pays 12% interest on a used Camry.
 
2021-12-09 10:54:47 AM  

Lambskincoat: We call this the, "too many fillet mignons and lobster dinners" theory of a American poverty.


It's not wrong.  Would you like me to post some more graphs?  They're easy as hell to find.  Type in any product or service.  Add "rise in" and look.  EVERY SINGLE CONSUMER GOOD AND SERVICE keeps going up.  Way up.  How fast is our population rising again?  I think I already posted that one.  Consumption from the richest nations keeps going up, while the planetary resources keep going down.  COINCIDENCE?   Only to an economist, the stupidest of all consumers.

Now that's not my spending. I'm poor.  I don't spend my money on that shiat.  And neither do other actually poor people.  That's the middle class right there--spending their farking lives away, then complaining about how they have no money.  Student loans, trips, new cars, more electronics than they can keep track of, dining out, buying nice things......oh please, filet mignons?  No, you dumbasses are spending your farking money on things that you can do just as well for yourselves, but you CHOOSE to pay someone else to do them.  Because you have no personal responsibility for anything, but you do have money.  That's why everything can go to shiat around you--you're building your little fortress of consumer goods so that you don't have to look at it.  Get some more security, chodes, because you can't build that wall high enough to keep out THE ENTIRE FARKING PLANET that you are so hell-bent on destroying.

Fark user imageView Full Size

It's like the end of the world every day, but you all are too stupid to comprehend.
 
2021-12-09 10:54:53 AM  
I have money in savings because of the UI benefits. I haven't spent it because I have no idea how long I have to make it last. Ending benefits didn't magically make me employed, Congress.
 
2021-12-09 10:55:06 AM  

Por que tan serioso: dylanthomas: Time to sit back and watch that sweet, sweet .3% interest start rolling in . . . Seriously, you too can become a millionaire, all you need to do is have $100,000 in savings and wait 300 years, it's that easy!

You are not compounding correctly.


Sorry, you're right, only 231 years - assuming it's tax free
 
2021-12-09 10:55:27 AM  

cryinoutloud: "Take away their spending opportunities"  "TAKE AWAY THEIR SPENDING OPPORTUNITIES"
Wow.  are you actually patting yourself on the back for being some kind of savvy consumer?  Like, Wow.
You must work in marketing, to lie so abjectly about something that is so easy to disprove.
Someone forced you to not go out for year, and gave you money, and now you're so proud of yourself?  Wow.  That's mighty white of you, coming from the most spoiled, consumptive, porky population in history.

[Fark user image image 710x399]
Well, here's a necessary expense!  I can see that Americans really are tightening their belts.

[Fark user image image 498x331]

Oh my god, look at those RV sales!  Right in the middle of a pandemic!  It's almost like nobody paid any farking attention to a worldwide pandemic, because they're Americans and they do what they want!  Right, Farkers? Then you post some article on the internet to make you feel better about it.  Or, even better--you never gave a fark in the first place. You buy everything, and you think you're a self-sufficient stud because you learned how to  ordered out your liquor when your bar closed down.

[Fark user image image 606x477]

Another totally necessary expense!  What are you going to do when the world is hostile and going to harm you?  Why, you buy some more shiat so that you don't have to think about what your VERY OWN ACTIONS are doing to cause that.

[Fark user image image 480x273]
Canada--those slobs.  Well, it's only because they live in a tropical paradise, so they can exercise anytime they want.  We have to deal with WEATHER, and since it's important to keep our thoroughbred bodies in peak condition, we have to pay for it.  Canadians don't eh.  That's why they are like they are--

[Fark user image image 380x329]

---Thinner than us.


[Fark user image image 429x342]

Anybody here make $55,000 a  year or more?  Anyone, anyone?  Top 10% of the world--and top 1% in emissions.  CONGRATULASHINS

Thank you, and we intend to do just as well this year, maybe even better!

[Fark user image image 506x280]

[Fark user image image 416x308]
Are you getting some food delivered?  You bet your ass you are.  How you have suffered.  The pandemic has made paupers of us all--but mostly those who have to work for your lazy ass, because you're peak consumer and you don't lift a finger for less than $75 an hour.

I bet it's marketers who made us all think that our shiat doesn't stink, either, and that we can do anything we want, because the world revolves around us.
You're even lower than that, because you thought that was a good thing to monetize.

So in conclusion, I hate all of you

[Fark user image image 276x183]
Make sure you get it ALL.


One point of order: of your going to use charts and graphics, at least put some thoughts into understanding what those charts and graphics are telling you. Specifically, the size of the exercise equipment market - of course Canada spends less in aggregate. They have 1/10th the population of the US. Eyeballing that chart, it looks like they actually outspend us about 2:1 on equipment.

Seriously, don't post charts if you don't understand how to adjust to per Capita. It just makes you look stupid.
 
2021-12-09 10:59:08 AM  

Lusiphur: madgonad: The Irresponsible Captain: So, it turns out if you give poor people money they generally make responsible decisions with it? Has someone been lying to me for decades about them spending it on lobster?

Uhm, no. You have to also eliminate the frivolous products and services. That was the second part of the headline. The (actually) rich people don't have this issue. They might have $20 million available to spend, but they don't see a new yacht on sale and think - hey, I have $20 million. I have just enough to buy it. That is really the key difference. It is also why lottery winners are frequently poor again within a few years. They are used to spending what they have so they continue to spend but on much more expensive purchases.

Ugh, for the umpteenth time, it's really not that rich people are more responsible with their money. It's that there's a limit to how much money you can reasonably spend in a year, and things are generally cheaper for the wealthy than for the poor. Unless you already have deep-seated underlying issues (like many lottery winners who have gambling and other addictions and a life-time's worth of undiagnosed issues from being poor) you just can't blow it all easily.

Rich/wealthy people do not get that way by living frugally and being good at budgeting. They get that way by having large incomes. That guy in your scenario with $20 million is earning at least $2 million per year just having his money sit in an index fund. He can afford to buy that $20,000,000 yacht using a 30 year boat mortgage, and he'll be paying 3% interest for a toy while the guy who scrubs the toilets on his yacht pays 12% interest on a used Camry.


You mean using a tiny handful of edge cases like lottery winners is a bad way to form the baseline of an argument.  Who would have thought?
 
2021-12-09 11:02:07 AM  

cryinoutloud: Lambskincoat: We call this the, "too many fillet mignons and lobster dinners" theory of a American poverty.

It's not wrong.  Would you like me to post some more graphs?  They're easy as hell to find.  Type in any product or service.  Add "rise in" and look.  EVERY SINGLE CONSUMER GOOD AND SERVICE keeps going up.  Way up.  How fast is our population rising again?  I think I already posted that one.  Consumption from the richest nations keeps going up, while the planetary resources keep going down.  COINCIDENCE?   Only to an economist, the stupidest of all consumers.

Now that's not my spending. I'm poor.  I don't spend my money on that shiat.  And neither do other actually poor people.  That's the middle class right there--spending their farking lives away, then complaining about how they have no money.  Student loans, trips, new cars, more electronics than they can keep track of, dining out, buying nice things......oh please, filet mignons?  No, you dumbasses are spending your farking money on things that you can do just as well for yourselves, but you CHOOSE to pay someone else to do them.  Because you have no personal responsibility for anything, but you do have money.  That's why everything can go to shiat around you--you're building your little fortress of consumer goods so that you don't have to look at it.  Get some more security, chodes, because you can't build that wall high enough to keep out THE ENTIRE FARKING PLANET that you are so hell-bent on destroying.

[Fark user image image 541x291]
It's like the end of the world every day, but you all are too stupid to comprehend.


Ugh. farking again.

NO shiat BRITAIN SPENDS LESS THAN THE US ON E-COMMERCE - THEY HAVE 1/5TH OUR POPULATION.

In fact, looking at that, it looks like they're basically exactly the same place we are, per capita. Japan is the one outlier there, but that's more to do with their preference for in-person shopping. The actual per capita spending in Japan is only about $300/year less than in the US.

farking context, dude.
 
2021-12-09 11:02:07 AM  
Soo...maybe they should spend less?
 
2021-12-09 11:07:03 AM  
Could you help me out, Subby? When have we taken away rich people's "spending opportunities," as you call it?
 
2021-12-09 11:07:57 AM  
Avocado toast and starbucks for everyone!
 
2021-12-09 11:13:25 AM  

Lusiphur: Rich/wealthy people do not get that way by living frugally and being good at budgeting. They get that way by having large incomes. That guy in your scenario with $20 million is earning at least $2 million per year just having his money sit in an index fund. He can afford to buy that $20,000,000 yacht using a 30 year boat mortgage, and he'll be paying 3% interest for a toy while the guy who scrubs the toilets on his yacht pays 12% interest on a used Camry.


You would be surprised. Read this book. I've never made more than $85k and my wife has never made more than $65k and we are both 50 and worth just shy of $2M. Pretty darn good for lifelong Missouri residents. It isn't rocket science and pretty much anyone can duplicate what we've done. We bought a house in 2002 for $150k which is now worth 3x that. We've done all of our own maintenance and I have refinished the kitchen, basement, two bathrooms, and living room. I also added a walk-in closet to the master bedroom and designed/built a custom 400 sqft shed. We both drive inexpensive cars and typically get a decade out of them before selling. We don't buy expensive new phones often (currently we have LG G6 phones - five years old and purchased while state of the art for $250ea). We don't eat out very often. We don't buy expensive clothes. Vacations are typically relatively low cost (rent a house and enjoy time with family at destination).

Living without frivolous things means that 25% can go into the 401(k) and Roth IRA contributions are always maxed-out. There are plenty of tools for the middle class to sock away a ton of money. Most people would just rather buy $50k SUVs and live in bland cookie-cutter McMansions and have nothing to show for it at the end of the year.
 
2021-12-09 11:13:49 AM  

UNC_Samurai: Lusiphur: madgonad: The Irresponsible Captain: So, it turns out if you give poor people money they generally make responsible decisions with it? Has someone been lying to me for decades about them spending it on lobster?

Uhm, no. You have to also eliminate the frivolous products and services. That was the second part of the headline. The (actually) rich people don't have this issue. They might have $20 million available to spend, but they don't see a new yacht on sale and think - hey, I have $20 million. I have just enough to buy it. That is really the key difference. It is also why lottery winners are frequently poor again within a few years. They are used to spending what they have so they continue to spend but on much more expensive purchases.

Ugh, for the umpteenth time, it's really not that rich people are more responsible with their money. It's that there's a limit to how much money you can reasonably spend in a year, and things are generally cheaper for the wealthy than for the poor. Unless you already have deep-seated underlying issues (like many lottery winners who have gambling and other addictions and a life-time's worth of undiagnosed issues from being poor) you just can't blow it all easily.

Rich/wealthy people do not get that way by living frugally and being good at budgeting. They get that way by having large incomes. That guy in your scenario with $20 million is earning at least $2 million per year just having his money sit in an index fund. He can afford to buy that $20,000,000 yacht using a 30 year boat mortgage, and he'll be paying 3% interest for a toy while the guy who scrubs the toilets on his yacht pays 12% interest on a used Camry.

You mean using a tiny handful of edge cases like lottery winners is a bad way to form the baseline of an argument.  Who would have thought?


Shocking, right? It's also important to note that most lottery winners don't lose all their money because of poor spending habits, but rather because they have no experience navigating the financial systems of the class they suddenly find themselves in. The biggest cause for money hemorrhaging for recipients of large windfalls isn't personal consumption -- again, it's really farking hard to buy tens of millions of dollars worth of stuff in a single year without acquiring at least some assets. The biggest problem is poor investing choices made because no one bothers tracing someone who makes $12/hour how to evaluate the relative risk and validity of an investment.

There's an entire cottage industry of unscrupulous scam artists who's entire livelihood depends on stealing money from windfall recipients. And that's not even counting all the friends, family, and acquaintances who come out of the woodwork with their "can't fail" business opportunities. People who don't grow up with money, or who don't work their way up to millions, don't have the fundamental tools to look at these "business opportunities," determine if they're legit and financially sound, and then turn them down if they're not. We've spent 250-odd years in this country teaching the poor that money is evil and that they should be unquestioningly generous with it. So when they do win the $100 million Powerball jackpot, they find themselves in a unique position to be the perfect marks for conmen and grifters.
 
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