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(SFGate)   Journalists in San Francisco are so daft that they think a couple that invests $50k/year, gives thousands to charity, and takes expensive vacations is living paycheck to paycheck   (sfgate.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Metropolitan area, finance expert Sam Dogen, Cost, middle-class lifestyle, City, San Francisco's land, Costs, extravagant lifestyle  
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3917 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Dec 2021 at 8:04 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-12-07 8:09:36 PM  
The rich (household income > $200k) look for any reason they can to explain away their objective richness. 

"Wahhhhh, I'm living in a big city and you can't buy ANYTHING for less than what an average family spends on housing for a decade!!! Wahhhhh."

Fark the rich. Eat them first.
 
2021-12-07 8:10:44 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-12-07 8:14:11 PM  
Lol.  "Paycheck to paycheck " means 401k, 529 savings, date nights, etc.  You're doing it wrong.
 
2021-12-07 8:14:19 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: The rich (household income > $200k) look for any reason they can to explain away their objective richness. 

"Wahhhhh, I'm living in a big city and you can't buy ANYTHING for less than what an average family spends on housing for a decade!!! Wahhhhh."

Fark the rich. Eat them first.


who decided $200,000 was the dividing point for "rich"?  why not $150,000, or $50,000, or $300,000?
 
2021-12-07 8:15:10 PM  
I can already tell this thread's gonna get messy. I'll have my secretary summarize is for me in the morning.

/dictated, not read
 
2021-12-07 8:16:08 PM  
If you're paying 42,000 to charity, you're not living paycheck-to-paycheck because something's wrong with your pay. You're living like that because you can't budget.

/who the hell shops at name-brand stores for kid clothes? And how the hell do you get three weeks of vacation in this economy? And why did you buy a new car?
//learn to live cheaper
 
2021-12-07 8:17:12 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: The 1% (per capita income > $34k) look for any reason they can to explain away their objective richness. 

"Wahhhhh, I'm living in America and you can't afford monthly rent for less than what an average family earns in a year!! Wahhhhh."

Fark the rich. Eat them first.


Ftfy
 
2021-12-07 8:17:33 PM  
 Living out in the boonies if I were making $300k/year my house would have been paid for in 6 months and I'd be banking the difference. Naturally you have to weigh that against all the culture and shiat I'm probably missing out on.
 
2021-12-07 8:17:47 PM  

the voice of raisin: who decided $200,000 was the dividing point for "rich"?  why not $150,000, or $50,000, or $300,000?


This equates to the top 10%. By any objective measure, if you are earning more than 90% of everyone in this country, you are are rich.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-12-07 8:18:01 PM  
I once heard a woman say that she could comprehend how anyone could live on less than $500K per year. I was dumbstruck.
 
2021-12-07 8:18:05 PM  

the voice of raisin: 137 Is An Excellent Time: The rich (household income > $200k) look for any reason they can to explain away their objective richness. 

"Wahhhhh, I'm living in a big city and you can't buy ANYTHING for less than what an average family spends on housing for a decade!!! Wahhhhh."

Fark the rich. Eat them first.

who decided $200,000 was the dividing point for "rich"?  why not $150,000, or $50,000, or $300,000?


Well in 2019 the median yearly individual income in the U.S. was 36k.

Seems like a good place to start.
 
2021-12-07 8:18:44 PM  

RTOGUY: Living out in the boonies if I were making $300k/year my house would have been paid for in 6 months and I'd be banking the difference. Naturally you have to weigh that against all the culture and shiat I'm probably missing out on.


At $300k/year, my house would have been paid off in three farking months. Fark these people.
 
2021-12-07 8:19:44 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: the voice of raisin: who decided $200,000 was the dividing point for "rich"?  why not $150,000, or $50,000, or $300,000?

This equates to the top 10%. By any objective measure, if you are earning more than 90% of everyone in this country, you are are rich.

[Fark user image image 784x611]


$34k/year per capita equates to the top 1%. Minimum wage earners in American are objectively incredibly wealthy. A farking iPhone is worth more than half the families on the planet.
 
2021-12-07 8:19:51 PM  
1 date night/week ?  With a preschooler?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

$50K Toyota SUV (because a Volvo is too expensive!)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Why not a Civic or Corolla?  That's more than enough for a family of 3.
 
2021-12-07 8:20:00 PM  
DRTWFA but I did live in San Francisco for 3 years from 2011 to 2014 on a salary averaging about 82k and finally had to get out of there, too rich for my blood.

California property is for the super rich to own comfortably. You're better off renting there. Unless you're in Riverside. Which basically has all the charm of shiat-ass Oklahoma.
 
2021-12-07 8:21:06 PM  

farkalt: $34k/year per capita equates to the top 1%. Minimum wage earners in American are objectively incredibly wealthy. A farking iPhone is worth more than half the families on the planet.


I agree. Americans are farking rich ass motherfarkers.
 
2021-12-07 8:23:05 PM  

It'sMorphin'Time: If you're paying 42,000 to charity, you're not living paycheck-to-paycheck because something's wrong with your pay. You're living like that because you can't budget.

/who the hell shops at name-brand stores for kid clothes? And how the hell do you get three weeks of vacation in this economy? And why did you buy a new car?
//learn to live cheaper


It's $4,200/yr.  Not $42,000.

But your point is still valid.
 
2021-12-07 8:23:24 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: RTOGUY: Living out in the boonies if I were making $300k/year my house would have been paid for in 6 months and I'd be banking the difference. Naturally you have to weigh that against all the culture and shiat I'm probably missing out on.

At $300k/year, my house would have been paid off in three farking months. Fark these people.


At $300k/year I could buy a hundred houses a month. Fark you sir.
 
2021-12-07 8:24:33 PM  
Dogen adds that at $300,000, a family is still living paycheck-to-paycheck and not saving outside their 401K and 529 plans.


I cannot f*cking fathom how people are shocked when they see people not squirreling away money on top of employer plans and other well-established savings programs.

BECAUSE THEY DON'T MAKE ENOUGH MONEY.


Financial experts clutch their pearls, BUT WHY?!?!!?


Because the 1% has sucked up all the productivity gains from the last 50+ years all to themselves.

But that's the quiet part financial folks can never say out loud.
 
2021-12-07 8:25:41 PM  
Not having 6mo income in cash is a bad idea.

Bills for home repairs pop up everywhere.
 
2021-12-07 8:26:39 PM  

farkalt: At $300k/year I could buy a hundred houses a month. Fark you sir.


You're buying $2,500 homes? Where?
 
2021-12-07 8:26:40 PM  
It's a crappy headline.  But I'd say $300k/year is about right for a couple with kids to live in the City and have a decent life.   Upper middle class for sure.
 
2021-12-07 8:27:03 PM  

It'sMorphin'Time: If you're paying 42,000 to charity, you're not living paycheck-to-paycheck because something's wrong with your pay. You're living like that because you can't budget.

/who the hell shops at name-brand stores for kid clothes? And how the hell do you get three weeks of vacation in this economy? And why did you buy a new car?
//learn to live cheaper


I have 3 weeks of paid vacation.
It's called having a job for more than 5 years
 
2021-12-07 8:27:04 PM  

Russ1642: [Fark user image image 550x362]


Get the lights.
 
2021-12-07 8:27:39 PM  
My bro lives in SF and I'd be surprised if he makes $30K a year. Lives in an SRO.

Covid shut down tourism in SF, which is a tourist town. Most of the Airbnb owners converted their rentals to leases, which flooded the market. That led to significantly lower apartment and SRO rental prices.

tl;dr It's significantly cheaper to live in SF now than it was before covid.
 
2021-12-07 8:28:13 PM  
They literally printed the exact same article two years ago and it made it to Fark.

https://www.fark.com/comments/10378308
 
2021-12-07 8:28:27 PM  
I think the point of the article is to highlight what it takes to live what was originally considered the middle class lifestyle in one of the most expensive areas in the country and the commentary here indicates that this lifestyle is considered extravagant which shows how much economically we have degenerated rightward that basic survival is considered middle class.

Or maybe it is a fluff piece and I'm projecting my existential dread of how the economic disparity is worse than it was at the original peak in the late 19th Century.
 
2021-12-07 8:28:40 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: farkalt: $34k/year per capita equates to the top 1%. Minimum wage earners in American are objectively incredibly wealthy. A farking iPhone is worth more than half the families on the planet.

I agree. Americans are farking rich ass motherfarkers.


I occasionally play GeoGuessr (badly), and wow it's eye opening to just how good we have it here.  CPS would be called immediately if any American tried to raise a child in some of these scrap metal shacks so prevalent in many parts of the world.
 
2021-12-07 8:29:34 PM  

SirGunslinger: I think the point of the article is to highlight what it takes to live what was originally considered the middle class lifestyle in one of the most expensive areas in the country and the commentary here indicates that this lifestyle is considered extravagant which shows how much economically we have degenerated rightward that basic survival is considered middle class.

Or maybe it is a fluff piece and I'm projecting my existential dread of how the economic disparity is worse than it was at the original peak in the late 19th Century.


None of this was ever thought of as a "middle class lifestyle." Ever. Stop farking lying.
 
2021-12-07 8:30:16 PM  
$4,000 a month invested? $600 a month for entertainment? $250 a month for gas?!*** $650 a month for vacations?

Go fark yourself. Keep go farking yourself until you hit a shoreline and then keep going.

If I could afford to invest $4,000 a month, I'd be deliciously close to retirement. I'm 32.

Again, I cannot stress how much this author should go fark himself.
 
2021-12-07 8:30:47 PM  
So they live in a $1.5m home, pay ~40% of their income in housing expenses alone, and spend like ~25% of their remaining income after that on a combination of vacations, charity, entertainment, and college investment for the toddler?
 
2021-12-07 8:31:45 PM  

Rev.K: Dogen adds that at $300,000, a family is still living paycheck-to-paycheck and not saving outside their 401K and 529 plans.


I cannot f*cking fathom how people are shocked when they see people not squirreling away money on top of employer plans and other well-established savings programs.

BECAUSE THEY DON'T MAKE ENOUGH MONEY.


Financial experts clutch their pearls, BUT WHY?!?!!?


Because the 1% has sucked up all the productivity gains from the last 50+ years all to themselves.

But that's the quiet part financial folks can never say out loud.


While I agree with you on principle, the couple in TFA spend $8,000/yr on vacations and ANOTHER $600/month on week end getaways and entertainment.

Not to mention a gas-guzzler that is twice as big as needed.

They are in dire need of a financial planner.
 
2021-12-07 8:31:58 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: farkalt: At $300k/year I could buy a hundred houses a month. Fark you sir.

You're buying $2,500 homes? Where?


If you're a fat, drug addled, fascist, imperialist, racist AmeriKKKan, southern Ohio. If you're the global proletariat, crushed by the American imperialism destroying the planet any of the nation's on the bottom half of the world HDI.
 
2021-12-07 8:32:09 PM  

SirGunslinger: I think the point of the article is to highlight what it takes to live what was originally considered the middle class lifestyle in one of the most expensive areas in the country and the commentary here indicates that this lifestyle is considered extravagant which shows how much economically we have degenerated rightward that basic survival is considered middle class.


Winner winner, (soylent) chicken dinner.


What makes me furious about these articles is that they:

1. Completely ignore the massive shift in income equality the US has seen over the last 40 years, which is staggering.

2. They always profile a hypothetical family of well-educated people, working good paying professional jobs, which accounts for only part of the population. A SH*T TON of people in San Francisco do not fit that bill, see #1.
 
2021-12-07 8:32:52 PM  

Herr Flick's Revenge: It'sMorphin'Time: If you're paying 42,000 to charity, you're not living paycheck-to-paycheck because something's wrong with your pay. You're living like that because you can't budget.

/who the hell shops at name-brand stores for kid clothes? And how the hell do you get three weeks of vacation in this economy? And why did you buy a new car?
//learn to live cheaper

I have 3 weeks of paid vacation.
It's called having a job for more than 5 years


Especially if it's a job with a $150k-$200k salary.
 
2021-12-07 8:35:11 PM  

the voice of raisin: 137 Is An Excellent Time: The rich (household income > $200k) look for any reason they can to explain away their objective richness. 

"Wahhhhh, I'm living in a big city and you can't buy ANYTHING for less than what an average family spends on housing for a decade!!! Wahhhhh."

Fark the rich. Eat them first.

who decided $200,000 was the dividing point for "rich"?  why not $150,000, or $50,000, or $300,000?


Who decides 6 foot 4 inches is tall? Why not 8 feet? Why not 4 feet?

Who decides 65 MPH is fast enough? Why not 120? Why not 35?

More deep thoughts to follow...
 
2021-12-07 8:35:18 PM  

Flab: While I agree with you on principle, the couple in TFA spend $8,000/yr on vacations and ANOTHER $600/month on week end getaways and entertainment.

Not to mention a gas-guzzler that is twice as big as needed.

They are in dire need of a financial planner.


Yes, for sure, these people could budget better and cut back in certain places, no doubt.
 
2021-12-07 8:35:27 PM  
We were all raised watching "Friends." Of course we can work at entry-level or low-level jobs and live comfortably, albeit not spaciously, in one of the more expensive cities in the world.
 
2021-12-07 8:37:01 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: The rich (household income > $200k) look for any reason they can to explain away their objective richness. 

"Wahhhhh, I'm living in a big city and you can't buy ANYTHING for less than what an average family spends on housing for a decade!!! Wahhhhh."

Fark the rich. Eat them first.


You sound poor.
 
2021-12-07 8:37:13 PM  

AppleOptionEsc: the voice of raisin: 137 Is An Excellent Time: The rich (household income > $200k) look for any reason they can to explain away their objective richness. 

"Wahhhhh, I'm living in a big city and you can't buy ANYTHING for less than what an average family spends on housing for a decade!!! Wahhhhh."

Fark the rich. Eat them first.

who decided $200,000 was the dividing point for "rich"?  why not $150,000, or $50,000, or $300,000?

Who decides 6 foot 4 inches is tall? Why not 8 feet? Why not 4 feet?

Who decides 65 MPH is fast enough? Why not 120? Why not 35?

More deep thoughts to follow...


1. The bell curve

2. A study of the prevailing speed of traffic
 
2021-12-07 8:37:39 PM  
"We're in this perpetual grind in San Francisco, and it's a city for people who are willing to hustle," he says.
This manner of speaking boils my blood.  "Hustle" is code for having a couple of part-time jobs in addition to your full-time job.
The basic necessities of life should not require working 8-5 Monday-Friday and driving for Uber on the weekends. The concept of "hustling" is Internet drivel typed by assholes that attribute poverty to laziness.
 
2021-12-07 8:38:25 PM  

RTOGUY: Living out in the boonies if I were making $300k/year my house would have been paid for in 6 months and I'd be banking the difference. Naturally you have to weigh that against all the culture and shiat I'm probably missing out on.


More like the smell of bum feces, walking around the strewn syringes, and trying not to be shot. You couldn't pay me to live in San Frag.
 
2021-12-07 8:38:56 PM  

Huck And Molly Ziegler: We were all raised watching "Friends." Of course we can work at entry-level or low-level jobs and live comfortably, albeit not spaciously, in one of the more expensive cities in the world.


It was a rent-controlled apartment.  That's one of the major plot point that the apartment was in Monica and Ross' grandmother's name.
 
2021-12-07 8:40:13 PM  

Likwit: $4,000 a month invested? $600 a month for entertainment? $250 a month for gas?!*** $650 a month for vacations?

Go fark yourself. Keep go farking yourself until you hit a shoreline and then keep going.

If I could afford to invest $4,000 a month, I'd be deliciously close to retirement. I'm 32.

Again, I cannot stress how much this author should go fark himself.


Maybe they lucked out and found employers willing to match a ~12% 401k contribution.
 
2021-12-07 8:40:36 PM  

Bovine Diarrhea Virus: "We're in this perpetual grind in San Francisco, and it's a city for people who are willing to hustle," he says.
This manner of speaking boils my blood.  "Hustle" is code for having a couple of part-time jobs in addition to your full-time job.
The basic necessities of life should not require working 8-5 Monday-Friday and driving for Uber on the weekends. The concept of "hustling" is Internet drivel typed by assholes that attribute poverty to laziness.


You have to side hustle a VRBO rental to pay for the money you're losing driving Uber Pools 6 days a week on the off hours you're not interning at Meta.
 
2021-12-07 8:42:46 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: SirGunslinger: I think the point of the article is to highlight what it takes to live what was originally considered the middle class lifestyle in one of the most expensive areas in the country and the commentary here indicates that this lifestyle is considered extravagant which shows how much economically we have degenerated rightward that basic survival is considered middle class.

Or maybe it is a fluff piece and I'm projecting my existential dread of how the economic disparity is worse than it was at the original peak in the late 19th Century.

None of this was ever thought of as a "middle class lifestyle." Ever. Stop farking lying.


3 Bedroom house, kids, car, retirement plan (pension back in the day), enough for an annual vacation, donate a few percent of your income to charity. That was very much middle class until the era of Reaganomics. The numbers sound expensive because it is San Francisco, but if you took the line items and dropped them into any other city or locale that would still be middle class.

This just highlights how much we have backslid as a society where those items are considered rich. You are getting mad at the wrong people.
 
2021-12-07 8:43:26 PM  

El_Dan: Likwit: $4,000 a month invested? $600 a month for entertainment? $250 a month for gas?!*** $650 a month for vacations?

Go fark yourself. Keep go farking yourself until you hit a shoreline and then keep going.

If I could afford to invest $4,000 a month, I'd be deliciously close to retirement. I'm 32.

Again, I cannot stress how much this author should go fark himself.

Maybe they lucked out and found employers willing to match a ~12% 401k contribution.


Matching contributions? Lol. You are lucky to be employed and even have access to a 401k let alone one where the employer matches, especially with any sort of decent salary/benefits.
 
2021-12-07 8:43:31 PM  
US Middle Class Mood™
Cadillac ELR Coupe 2014 Commercial
Youtube xNzXze5Yza8
 
2021-12-07 8:43:38 PM  

Bovine Diarrhea Virus: "We're in this perpetual grind in San Francisco, and it's a city for people who are willing to hustle," he says.
This manner of speaking boils my blood.  "Hustle" is code for having a couple of part-time jobs in addition to your full-time job.
The basic necessities of life should not require working 8-5 Monday-Friday and driving for Uber on the weekends. The concept of "hustling" is Internet drivel typed by assholes that attribute poverty to laziness.


It also means utilizing your skill set and not settling for what's in front of you.

Is it easy? Absolutely not.  But if you can't make it in America, you sure as hell won't make it elsewhere.
 
2021-12-07 8:44:05 PM  
I've found a market in selling sperm and breast milk (not mixed together, like a shake).if you guys are interested in making some at-home cash.

The hormones required for me to start lactating were a bit awkward at first but have turned into a cash cow (scuse the pun).
 
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