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(Tom's Hardware)   Nvidia releases two-year-old GPUs that are less desirable for crypto miners. And by 'less desirable' they mean 'more desirable'   (tomshardware.com) divider line
    More: Followup, ATI Technologies, Scalable Link Interface, GeForce RTX, Mining, 12GB cards, Video cards, Graphics processing unit, Video card  
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1504 clicks; posted to STEM » and Fandom » on 07 Dec 2021 at 5:40 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-12-07 5:52:43 PM  
Doesn't make sense as memory bandwidth is more important (for eth) than total vram. Pretty sure a 1660 super should perform about the same.

/fark miners
//want to uprade my rig
//fark scalper prices too
 
2021-12-07 5:57:02 PM  
Put a bounty on crypto miners' head.
 
2021-12-07 5:57:36 PM  
Ok, now I know that I know exactly jack shiat about cryptocurrency or any of that whole thing, but it requires beyond next level graphics to do it now????

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-12-07 5:58:25 PM  
I'm guessing it'll MSP for $429 and be gone the same hour it's released, but as I understand it, it can be made in-house, without need of TSMC's fabs. Hopefully it'll just become moderately inflated but available, the way 1660s are now.
 
2021-12-07 6:03:42 PM  

Loneman1: Ok, now I know that I know exactly jack shiat about cryptocurrency or any of that whole thing, but it requires beyond next level graphics to do it now????

[Fark user image image 400x172]


GPU's are just processors that are great at certain types of mathematical calculations. Some types of cryptocurrencies rely on the same types of mathematical calculations.

So a faster math processor means faster mining.
 
2021-12-07 6:04:16 PM  
Managed to get an RTX 3060 ti for msrp about a month ago. That's all the power my compensator needs.
 
2021-12-07 6:14:40 PM  
I got a liquid cooled Asus 6800xt at 2021 retail a while back, so I'm really feeling for gamers.
 
2021-12-07 6:21:41 PM  
These may actually help alleviate the shortage to some degree, since they're manufactured in a different fab by a different company than the 3000-series cards.

Adding more 3000-series models just cannibalizes their existing capacity, but bringing these back increases the number of cards they can get out the door.
 
2021-12-07 6:24:54 PM  

likefunbutnot: I'm guessing it'll MSP for $429 and be gone the same hour it's released, but as I understand it, it can be made in-house, without need of TSMC's fabs. Hopefully it'll just become moderately inflated but available, the way 1660s are now.


In who's house?

NVidia is fabless, AFAIK.
 
2021-12-07 6:32:23 PM  

Randrew: In who's house?

NVidia is fabless, AFAIK


It might be, but I've read that it doesn't need TSMC to make those 20x0 chips, and that's going to be a relief to some degree.
 
2021-12-07 6:38:53 PM  

raygundan: These may actually help alleviate the shortage to some degree, since they're manufactured in a different fab by a different company than the 3000-series cards.

Adding more 3000-series models just cannibalizes their existing capacity, but bringing these back increases the number of cards they can get out the door.


Nothing will help alleviate the shortage.  The last video card you bought will be the one you'll have forever.  Abandon all hope ye who game on PCs!
 
2021-12-07 6:48:46 PM  

likefunbutnot: Randrew: In who's house?

NVidia is fabless, AFAIK

It might be, but I've read that it doesn't need TSMC to make those 20x0 chips, and that's going to be a relief to some degree.


There's basically TSMC, Samsung and Intel who can do the 12nm lithography of the 20x0 devices and Intel isn't renting out their hottest fabs, AFAIK.  Wait, I see GlobalFoundries does have one fab in Germany that goes down to 12nm, but I haven't found any mention of NVidia using them.
 
2021-12-07 6:49:49 PM  

SMB2811: Loneman1: Ok, now I know that I know exactly jack shiat about cryptocurrency or any of that whole thing, but it requires beyond next level graphics to do it now????

[Fark user image image 400x172]

GPU's are just processors that are great at certain types of mathematical calculations. Some types of cryptocurrencies rely on the same types of mathematical calculations.

So a faster math processor means faster mining.


Ah gotcha, that makes sense.  I was just stuck with the mental image of miners like blasting through with amazing 3D graphics, and that image was hard to look beyond for the logic and reasoning.
 
2021-12-07 6:54:24 PM  
Why don't we just skip the middle man and use GPUs as a currency/store of value instead?

That makes Nvidia a currency issuer on par with the US government.
 
2021-12-07 6:56:08 PM  

Randrew: Put a bounty on crypto miners' head.


Offer the bounty in Bitcoin. Make them eat each other.
 
2021-12-07 6:59:22 PM  

Randrew: Put a bounty on crypto miners' head.



that'll be tough.  they live all around the Globe.
 
2021-12-07 6:59:54 PM  
AMD or Bust!
 
2021-12-07 7:10:54 PM  

kudayta: Nothing will help alleviate the shortage. The last video card you bought will be the one you'll have forever. Abandon all hope ye who game on PCs!


Aww, man; that means that in a few more generations our rigs will be as weak as consoles!
 
2021-12-07 7:24:18 PM  

Loneman1: SMB2811: Loneman1: Ok, now I know that I know exactly jack shiat about cryptocurrency or any of that whole thing, but it requires beyond next level graphics to do it now????

[Fark user image image 400x172]

GPU's are just processors that are great at certain types of mathematical calculations. Some types of cryptocurrencies rely on the same types of mathematical calculations.

So a faster math processor means faster mining.

Ah gotcha, that makes sense.  I was just stuck with the mental image of miners like blasting through with amazing 3D graphics, and that image was hard to look beyond for the logic and reasoning.


It's kinda worse than that - the hash etherium uses was designed in response to "ASICs" being used for bitcoin, small chips which are really good at computing lots of a specific type of hash efficiently, but can't be used for gaming, so they don't impact the supply of gaming hardware.  Etherium chose to use a hash that requires huge amounts of memory bandwidth, which would make any ASIC for that hash almost as power hungry as a GPU (because GPUs are hardware that is already optimized for memory bandwidth, among other things), so no one would make ASICs for it, so miners will just buy all the GPUs they can afford as long as etherium has a high enough market price.

At least they plan to switch to proof of stake soon, in theory, which doesn't rely on hardware and power to generate the artificial scarcity...

/if cryptocurrency weren't viewed as legitimate, ransomware would basically cease to exist...
 
2021-12-07 7:28:26 PM  

SMB2811: Loneman1: Ok, now I know that I know exactly jack shiat about cryptocurrency or any of that whole thing, but it requires beyond next level graphics to do it now????

[Fark user image image 400x172]

GPU's are just processors that are great at certain types of mathematical calculations. Some types of cryptocurrencies rely on the same types of mathematical calculations.

So a faster math processor means faster mining.


People were combining graphics cards to make homebrew supercomputers for simulating quantum wells and determining semiconductor band structures and stuff long before Bitcoin became a thing.
 
2021-12-07 7:37:12 PM  

Linux_Yes: AMD or Bust!


Sorry, that DLSS dark magic is just way too nice.
 
2021-12-07 7:59:28 PM  

likefunbutnot: Randrew: In who's house?

NVidia is fabless, AFAIK

It might be, but I've read that it doesn't need TSMC to make those 20x0 chips, and that's going to be a relief to some degree.


TSMC is supposed to have a bit more production capacity coming online in 2023. Most other fabs I've read about being built are expected to start production in 2024 or 2025. And generally, unless I'm mistaken, the first year of a new fab is relatively low volume output as they tweak everything..

Seems to me like the bad news is every little bit is going to help, because unless demand somehow drops it's going to be a while before the silicon market isn't a mess. The good news is that once those fabs start rolling I'd expect the situation to flip in the opposite direction for a while, because it's going to be a lot.
 
2021-12-07 8:10:23 PM  
"And by 'on sale' we mean 'sold out unless you're a miner.'"

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-12-07 8:17:50 PM  

neongoats: Managed to get an RTX 3060 ti for msrp about a month ago. That's all the power my compensator needs.


I've played all of like two hours of Q2 RTX with mine. I suppose I could start looking for a proper 4K screen or look into a VR headset at some point
 
2021-12-07 8:23:14 PM  

Linux_Yes: AMD or Bust!


Cyrix FTW....

/because who needs fast floating point?
 
2021-12-07 8:35:32 PM  

Loneman1: Ok, now I know that I know exactly jack shiat about cryptocurrency or any of that whole thing, but it requires beyond next level graphics to do it now????

Fark user imageView Full Size


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-12-07 8:39:05 PM  
compwhiz797:

/if cryptocurrency weren't viewed as legitimate, ransomware would basically cease to exist...

I think it works the other way around - ransomware forces people to put real money into the cryptocurrency system therefore giving crypto a real world value.
 
2021-12-07 8:41:15 PM  

KingBiefWhistle: neongoats: Managed to get an RTX 3060 ti for msrp about a month ago. That's all the power my compensator needs.

I've played all of like two hours of Q2 RTX with mine. I suppose I could start looking for a proper 4K screen or look into a VR headset at some point


Oh, I should try RTX quake - thanks for mentioning that.

Thus far I've just played Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - no rtx features there, but I did crank every single setting to max heh.
 
2021-12-07 9:04:09 PM  

kudayta: Nothing will help alleviate the shortage.  The last video card you bought will be the one you'll have forever.  Abandon all hope ye who game on PCs!


Considering I had to weather the last cryptoboom with a Radeon HD 6670, I am well versed in the art of low resolutions and potato textures.

/Most games are improved as basic shapes and abstract smears of color
 
2021-12-07 9:38:06 PM  

mongbiohazard: TSMC is supposed to have a bit more production capacity coming online in 2023. Most other fabs I've read about being built are expected to start production in 2024 or 2025. And generally, unless I'm mistaken, the first year of a new fab is relatively low volume output as they tweak everything..


New fabs generally come online as new nodes are released, and they alleviate wafer supply for the older node as chip designers release new flagship designs on the new node, which reduces demand for parts built on the older node. It's quite rare for the number of wafer starts for an existing node to increase after volume production reaches maturity. Exceptions are going to be very long lived nodes like 28 nm which kept certain product lines fed for 3 - 4 generations.
 
2021-12-07 9:45:44 PM  

BarryJV: compwhiz797:

/if cryptocurrency weren't viewed as legitimate, ransomware would basically cease to exist...

I think it works the other way around - ransomware forces people to put real money into the cryptocurrency system therefore giving crypto a real world value.


People spend money on things that aren't fungible all the time, it doesn't make them fungible, "real" currency isn't the source of value (also consider, nobody paid to put the gold into all the gold mines, it has value simply because it is useful and pretty).  Value comes from what you can do with the thing, and nobody needs to accept crypto as payment, and there isn't much else it can be used for.  I think cryptocurrency being used for criminal purposes actually hurts its market value as it is perceived more poorly.  If legitimate vendors didn't accept cryptocurrency, ransomware authors/clients may be forced to give a contact method for sending gift card codes or something (if they want to spend their extortion money on anything legitimate), resulting in more exposure to investigation/interception.
 
2021-12-07 9:47:52 PM  
I'd like to upgrade my graphics card. I've been using a GTX 1070 for a few years now (it was either a refurb or an open box, and I was lucky as all get out to stumble upon that), but getting a next-gen card seems to be a pipe dream with them being perpetually sold out.
 
2021-12-07 9:57:10 PM  

PunkTiger: I'd like to upgrade my graphics card. I've been using a GTX 1070 for a few years now (it was either a refurb or an open box, and I was lucky as all get out to stumble upon that), but getting a next-gen card seems to be a pipe dream with them being perpetually sold out.


The most reliable method seems to be buying a pre-built. I shudder at the thought.
 
2021-12-07 10:00:57 PM  
PC Master Masochist Race!
 
2021-12-07 10:19:00 PM  

Loneman1: SMB2811: Loneman1: Ok, now I know that I know exactly jack shiat about cryptocurrency or any of that whole thing, but it requires beyond next level graphics to do it now????

[Fark user image image 400x172]

GPU's are just processors that are great at certain types of mathematical calculations. Some types of cryptocurrencies rely on the same types of mathematical calculations.

So a faster math processor means faster mining.

Ah gotcha, that makes sense.  I was just stuck with the mental image of miners like blasting through with amazing 3D graphics, and that image was hard to look beyond for the logic and reasoning.


You don't mine on Unix?

i.stack.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2021-12-07 10:22:13 PM  

PunkTiger: I'd like to upgrade my graphics card. I've been using a GTX 1070 for a few years now (it was either a refurb or an open box, and I was lucky as all get out to stumble upon that), but getting a next-gen card seems to be a pipe dream with them being perpetually sold out.


Step 1: Buy Prebuilt
Step 2: Remove Graphics Card
Step 3: Donate computer to school.
 
2021-12-08 12:01:21 AM  

likefunbutnot: Randrew: In who's house?

NVidia is fabless, AFAIK

It might be, but I've read that it doesn't need TSMC to make those 20x0 chips, and that's going to be a relief to some degree.


You have that backwards. The 3000 series chips are fabbed by Samsung. The 2000s are TSMC 12nm.

So... it's a second source, but that source is TSMC.
 
2021-12-08 12:03:30 AM  

kudayta: raygundan: These may actually help alleviate the shortage to some degree, since they're manufactured in a different fab by a different company than the 3000-series cards.

Adding more 3000-series models just cannibalizes their existing capacity, but bringing these back increases the number of cards they can get out the door.

Nothing will help alleviate the shortage.  The last video card you bought will be the one you'll have forever.  Abandon all hope ye who game on PCs!


Meh. Worst case, we skip a whole generation one time, and end up buying used cards from miners going forward.
 
2021-12-08 4:47:17 AM  

raygundan: kudayta: raygundan: These may actually help alleviate the shortage to some degree, since they're manufactured in a different fab by a different company than the 3000-series cards.

Adding more 3000-series models just cannibalizes their existing capacity, but bringing these back increases the number of cards they can get out the door.

Nothing will help alleviate the shortage.  The last video card you bought will be the one you'll have forever.  Abandon all hope ye who game on PCs!

Meh. Worst case, we skip a whole generation one time, and end up buying used cards from miners going forward.


I'm expecting the 4000 series to have some nasty prices. Similar to the 2000 series. Should keep the prices propped up if it comes with a high entry price.

Out of curiosity. I decided to check out the prices on ebay of a trusty Asus HD 7770 2GB GDDR5 that I still have lying around ... $80-$100 sold listings. wtf I bought one of those ~2012 open box for $100.

/sold a rx570 4gb for $120 and a 1060 3gb locally for $100 in Feb
 
2021-12-08 7:09:39 AM  
My office finally announced a work from home policy, with the caveat that if you use AutoCAD or Microstation or anything that doesn't work well on a bargain-basement laptop you'd better have your own computer because they're not getting you one.

Next month they'll probably announce they're discontinuing the work from home policy due to lack of interest.
 
2021-12-08 7:10:28 AM  

Koodz: My office finally announced a work from home policy, with the caveat that if you use AutoCAD or Microstation or anything that doesn't work well on a bargain-basement laptop you'd better have your own computer because they're not getting you one.

Next month they'll probably announce they're discontinuing the work from home policy due to lack of interest.


Sorry, misstated that. The IT guy says they can't get computers, not won't.
 
2021-12-08 7:16:38 AM  
Weirdest timeline.
 
2021-12-08 8:39:10 AM  
I never thought I'd see the day when the video-card market was working at killing the PC gaming market.
 
2021-12-08 9:38:59 AM  

UberNeuman: I never thought I'd see the day when the video-card market was working at killing the PC gaming market.


This is a valid point. I haven't bought many games since the Ethereum miners took over. My GPU can't handle the latest and greatest so I spend little on new games and those I buy are indies that don't need a modern GPU. I do have a fairly lengthy backlog of unplayed gamed on Steam.
 
2021-12-08 10:29:35 AM  

madgonad: UberNeuman: I never thought I'd see the day when the video-card market was working at killing the PC gaming market.

This is a valid point. I haven't bought many games since the Ethereum miners took over. My GPU can't handle the latest and greatest so I spend little on new games and those I buy are indies that don't need a modern GPU. I do have a fairly lengthy backlog of unplayed gamed on Steam.


Between the miners, lack of supply, cost, and power consumption I'm seriously thinking the AMD APU's are the way to move forward. Especially now that they're moving off Vega to something much newer in the next generation. I'm hoping they'll have the performance of a GTX 1080 but less power consumption all in one chip that just works. I really don't feel like paying thousands of dollars for a graphics card that requires it's own nuclear power plant to run especially since processors are making large jumps in power requirements as well. AMD seems to be more efficient so far and Intel seems to be a power hog.
 
2021-12-08 10:55:02 AM  

SkoalReaver: Doesn't make sense as memory bandwidth is more important (for eth) than total vram. Pretty sure a 1660 super should perform about the same.

/fark miners
//want to uprade my rig
//fark scalper prices too


Either submitter is lying, or he can't read.

I'm happy I managed to get my RTX 2070. Hopefully I can upgrade it sometime in the future, doesn't look like it right now.
 
2021-12-08 10:56:20 AM  

Loneman1: Ok, now I know that I know exactly jack shiat about cryptocurrency or any of that whole thing, but it requires beyond next level graphics to do it now????

[Fark user image 400x172] [View Full Size image _x_]


Now?

It always used the GPU.
 
2021-12-08 11:04:52 AM  

mongbiohazard: PunkTiger: I'd like to upgrade my graphics card. I've been using a GTX 1070 for a few years now (it was either a refurb or an open box, and I was lucky as all get out to stumble upon that), but getting a next-gen card seems to be a pipe dream with them being perpetually sold out.

The most reliable method seems to be buying a pre-built. I shudder at the thought.


Just get it from a good vendor.

Pre-built RTX 3060ti boxes where are very resonable now from the smaller boutiques. But of course if you already have a PC, its a waste.
 
2021-12-08 11:07:29 AM  

UberNeuman: I never thought I'd see the day when the video-card market was working at killing the PC gaming market.


And consoles are keeping the PC Gaming market alive, since they're just normal PCs in a box, their games are easy to port.

Bit a pity, since they're the lowest common denominator, but at least the PC ports allow for higher resolutions.
 
2021-12-08 11:34:53 AM  

raygundan: kudayta: raygundan: These may actually help alleviate the shortage to some degree, since they're manufactured in a different fab by a different company than the 3000-series cards.

Adding more 3000-series models just cannibalizes their existing capacity, but bringing these back increases the number of cards they can get out the door.

Nothing will help alleviate the shortage.  The last video card you bought will be the one you'll have forever.  Abandon all hope ye who game on PCs!

Meh. Worst case, we skip a whole generation one time, and end up buying used cards from miners going forward.


Now maybe it's just propaganda from chip-pushers, but I have heard that the crypto-mining use case is hard on the cards, so it's a crapshoot whether you'll get one from someone who cooled it properly or someone who really cooked it.
 
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