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(UCLA Newsroom)   This just in from the Ric Romero Institute of Ancient History: The Egyptian Pharaohs were authoritarian dictators who did not always have the best interests of their people in mind   (newsroom.ucla.edu) divider line
    More: Obvious, Ancient Egypt, Sociology, UCLA's Kara Cooney, ancient Egyptian gods, hard thing, authoritarian regime, Authoritarianism, ancient Egypt  
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353 clicks; posted to STEM » on 07 Dec 2021 at 10:53 AM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



21 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-12-07 9:55:11 AM  
As opposed to all those authoritarian dictators who placed the needs of the people ahead of their own.
 
2021-12-07 10:54:31 AM  
Where dictators? There dictators!
 
2021-12-07 11:01:16 AM  
"How many of us have had deep obsessions with the ancient world - I just love Egyptian temples! I adore Greek mythology! - that are really symptoms of an ongoing addiction to male power that we just can't kick?" Cooney writes.

Hatshepsut and her fake beard frowns on the author's shenanigans.
 
2021-12-07 11:13:22 AM  
Hot take from a white woman
 
2021-12-07 11:23:40 AM  
I think I saw a documentary about this.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-12-07 11:29:30 AM  

ssaoi: I think I saw a documentary about this.
[Fark user image 425x318]


I knew it. Insane theories: one. Regular theories: a billion.
 
2021-12-07 11:33:58 AM  

Pocket Ninja: As opposed to all those authoritarian dictators who placed the needs of the people ahead of their own.


Second sentence "draws parallels between pharaohs and present-day authoritarians "
 
2021-12-07 11:38:37 AM  

Fano: Hot take from a white woman


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-12-07 11:42:30 AM  
Slaves didn't build the pyramids
 
2021-12-07 11:47:02 AM  

LewDux: Fano: Hot take from a white woman

[Fark user image image 257x192]


Subby buried the lede because the article is

frinkiac.comView Full Size
 
2021-12-07 11:51:50 AM  
Cleopatra frowns upon your shenanigans, lady!!

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-12-07 11:58:35 AM  

raerae1980: Cleopatra frowns upon your shenanigans, lady!!

[Fark user image image 290x174]


I'll defer to the expert, but outside of Cleopatra, Hatshepsut, and Nefertiti, what do we know about the role of women in the various power structures in Egypt?  (recognizing we're taking about 2000+ years and 30 Dynasties here).
 
2021-12-07 12:08:19 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: raerae1980: Cleopatra frowns upon your shenanigans, lady!!

[Fark user image image 290x174]

I'll defer to the expert, but outside of Cleopatra, Hatshepsut, and Nefertiti, what do we know about the role of women in the various power structures in Egypt?  (recognizing we're taking about 2000+ years and 30 Dynasties here).


Well one thing I have a question for the expert is: Are we really still worshipful of the Male God-Kings of Egypt? Because that's the premise of the thesis and seems a bit wobbly.
 
2021-12-07 12:10:46 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: raerae1980: Cleopatra frowns upon your shenanigans, lady!!

[Fark user image image 290x174]

I'll defer to the expert, but outside of Cleopatra, Hatshepsut, and Nefertiti, what do we know about the role of women in the various power structures in Egypt?  (recognizing we're taking about 2000+ years and 30 Dynasties here).


There's been a lot of scholarly work done on this topic.  Ancient Egyptians treated women much better than their predecessors, and some have argued that it was a more equal society.   Women could own property but didn't have much of a role in government, outside of the few female rulers.  There were priestesses, but most religious roles were male, however there were women dancers and singers.
I'd have to defer to Egyptologists for more in-depth discussions on this, my knowledge mostly deals with Roman Egypt.
 
2021-12-07 12:47:34 PM  

raerae1980: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: raerae1980: Cleopatra frowns upon your shenanigans, lady!!

[Fark user image image 290x174]

I'll defer to the expert, but outside of Cleopatra, Hatshepsut, and Nefertiti, what do we know about the role of women in the various power structures in Egypt?  (recognizing we're taking about 2000+ years and 30 Dynasties here).

There's been a lot of scholarly work done on this topic.  Ancient Egyptians treated women much better than their predecessors, and some have argued that it was a more equal society.   Women could own property but didn't have much of a role in government, outside of the few female rulers.  There were priestesses, but most religious roles were male, however there were women dancers and singers.
I'd have to defer to Egyptologists for more in-depth discussions on this, my knowledge mostly deals with Roman Egypt.


Don't forget life back then was Egypt, Mesopotamia (with a lot of lesser civilizations around and thus more constant warfare.  And much more flooding), the Inus region, China, and lots and lots of tiny neolithic villages that have to fight off raiders a lot.  Maybe it wasn't perfect, but it was a first try at a civilization.

Life outside those zones might not have been full on "nasty, brutish, and short", but it was a lot closer to that claimed in more recent romanticism.
 
2021-12-07 1:20:35 PM  

yet_another_wumpus: Don't forget life back then was Egypt, Mesopotamia (with a lot of lesser civilizations around and thus more constant warfare.  And much more flooding), the Inus region, China, and lots and lots of tiny neolithic villages that have to fight off raiders a lot.  Maybe it wasn't perfect, but it was a first try at a civilization.


There were other great African civilizations around that time, but Western scholars tended to ignore them.   Ancient Nubia, for instance, was just south of Egypt, and have their own ancient pyramids and temples that date back thousands of years, iirc.
 
2021-12-07 1:32:07 PM  

Fano: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: raerae1980: Cleopatra frowns upon your shenanigans, lady!!

[Fark user image image 290x174]

I'll defer to the expert, but outside of Cleopatra, Hatshepsut, and Nefertiti, what do we know about the role of women in the various power structures in Egypt?  (recognizing we're taking about 2000+ years and 30 Dynasties here).

Well one thing I have a question for the expert is: Are we really still worshipful of the Male God-Kings of Egypt? Because that's the premise of the thesis and seems a bit wobbly.


Ancient Egyptians didn't exactly all fawn over the Pharaohs and their monument building. They looted them and other burials of all their riches as quickly as possible. Not exactly the behavior of people who blindly worshipped the Pharaoh as a god. Plus there's a story about how one of the Pharaoh's daughters supposedly traded sexual favors for every block of stone used in a pyramid at Giza. And that works out to a whole lot of stones and a whole lot of sex.

And the books that I've read about Ancient Egypt aren't exactly glowing about the Pharaohs and their monument building either. They talk about all the human labor required and how it was a drain on resources at even the best of times.
 
2021-12-07 4:29:54 PM  
The patriarchy rises and falls in cycles, collapsing and rebuilding. But the thing that's haunting authoritarian regimes now is that the Earth is not allowing that cycle anymore. The Earth is not allowing the ongoing extractive, consumptive, unequal hoarding that defines those regimes, because it's unsustainable, and that unsustainability is now the undoing of the patriarchy.

This is what happens when you substitute watching Captain Planet for critical thinking.
 
2021-12-07 9:06:08 PM  

eyeq360: Fano: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: raerae1980: Cleopatra frowns upon your shenanigans, lady!!

[Fark user image image 290x174]

I'll defer to the expert, but outside of Cleopatra, Hatshepsut, and Nefertiti, what do we know about the role of women in the various power structures in Egypt?  (recognizing we're taking about 2000+ years and 30 Dynasties here).

Well one thing I have a question for the expert is: Are we really still worshipful of the Male God-Kings of Egypt? Because that's the premise of the thesis and seems a bit wobbly.

Ancient Egyptians didn't exactly all fawn over the Pharaohs and their monument building. They looted them and other burials of all their riches as quickly as possible. Not exactly the behavior of people who blindly worshipped the Pharaoh as a god. Plus there's a story about how one of the Pharaoh's daughters supposedly traded sexual favors for every block of stone used in a pyramid at Giza. And that works out to a whole lot of stones and a whole lot of sex.

And the books that I've read about Ancient Egypt aren't exactly glowing about the Pharaohs and their monument building either. They talk about all the human labor required and how it was a drain on resources at even the best of times.


See, that's kind of the thing I always read and I was certainly getting brainwashed with Dead White Male propaganda. I just feel that perhaps the author is being more than a little dishonest here, like a conservative writer starting out by stating that he used to be the libbiest lib that ever libbed and then went on to write speeches for John Birch.
 
2021-12-08 4:38:48 PM  

Fano: eyeq360: Fano: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: raerae1980: Cleopatra frowns upon your shenanigans, lady!!

[Fark user image image 290x174]

I'll defer to the expert, but outside of Cleopatra, Hatshepsut, and Nefertiti, what do we know about the role of women in the various power structures in Egypt?  (recognizing we're taking about 2000+ years and 30 Dynasties here).

Well one thing I have a question for the expert is: Are we really still worshipful of the Male God-Kings of Egypt? Because that's the premise of the thesis and seems a bit wobbly.

Ancient Egyptians didn't exactly all fawn over the Pharaohs and their monument building. They looted them and other burials of all their riches as quickly as possible. Not exactly the behavior of people who blindly worshipped the Pharaoh as a god. Plus there's a story about how one of the Pharaoh's daughters supposedly traded sexual favors for every block of stone used in a pyramid at Giza. And that works out to a whole lot of stones and a whole lot of sex.

And the books that I've read about Ancient Egypt aren't exactly glowing about the Pharaohs and their monument building either. They talk about all the human labor required and how it was a drain on resources at even the best of times.

See, that's kind of the thing I always read and I was certainly getting brainwashed with Dead White Male propaganda. I just feel that perhaps the author is being more than a little dishonest here, like a conservative writer starting out by stating that he used to be the libbiest lib that ever libbed and then went on to write speeches for John Birch.


Yeah, it's dishonest. Very dishonest.

She's ignoring the ancient sources that were written back then. Or at least cherry picking what she wants and applying modern standards to show how horrible they were. Not to mention how absurd it is to equate any sort of liking ancient history as a sign of brainwashing.
 
2021-12-08 5:28:34 PM  

eyeq360: Fano: eyeq360: Fano: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: raerae1980: Cleopatra frowns upon your shenanigans, lady!!

[Fark user image image 290x174]

I'll defer to the expert, but outside of Cleopatra, Hatshepsut, and Nefertiti, what do we know about the role of women in the various power structures in Egypt?  (recognizing we're taking about 2000+ years and 30 Dynasties here).

Well one thing I have a question for the expert is: Are we really still worshipful of the Male God-Kings of Egypt? Because that's the premise of the thesis and seems a bit wobbly.

Ancient Egyptians didn't exactly all fawn over the Pharaohs and their monument building. They looted them and other burials of all their riches as quickly as possible. Not exactly the behavior of people who blindly worshipped the Pharaoh as a god. Plus there's a story about how one of the Pharaoh's daughters supposedly traded sexual favors for every block of stone used in a pyramid at Giza. And that works out to a whole lot of stones and a whole lot of sex.

And the books that I've read about Ancient Egypt aren't exactly glowing about the Pharaohs and their monument building either. They talk about all the human labor required and how it was a drain on resources at even the best of times.

See, that's kind of the thing I always read and I was certainly getting brainwashed with Dead White Male propaganda. I just feel that perhaps the author is being more than a little dishonest here, like a conservative writer starting out by stating that he used to be the libbiest lib that ever libbed and then went on to write speeches for John Birch.

Yeah, it's dishonest. Very dishonest.

She's ignoring the ancient sources that were written back then. Or at least cherry picking what she wants and applying modern standards to show how horrible they were. Not to mention how absurd it is to equate any sort of liking ancient history as a sign of brainwashing.


The interesting thing to me about ancient history is about how like us but unlike us they are. It's instructive to think about different priorities and worldviews.
 
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