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(Guardian)   The son of the Blackfeet chief who designed the logo that went with the former name of Washington's NFL team, wants it back to use it to raise awareness of missing indigenous women. The right thing to do here is obvious, so expect Snyder to botch it   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Washington Redskins, Native Americans in the United States, team's former logo, Don Wetzel, Washington Football Team home game, much media traction, United States, Wetzel  
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392 clicks; posted to Sports » on 07 Dec 2021 at 11:05 AM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



32 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-12-07 10:44:25 AM  
K, the obvious question must be asked:  Why would they design a logo for a team whose nickname was offensive towards Native Americans?
 
2021-12-07 10:44:59 AM  
Anything that brings attention to indigenous women is a good thing
 
2021-12-07 10:56:08 AM  

Rwa2play: K, the obvious question must be asked:  Why would they design a logo for a team whose nickname was offensive towards Native Americans?


It's been long used as a defense of the team and the name, because the Logo was very respectful and in fact, many native Americans sported gear with the logo because they appreciated it.  That said "O tempora O Mores"   There came a time when there were people with serious problems with the name, and there is no excuse for intentionally hurting some people because not everyone feels that way
 
2021-12-07 11:16:42 AM  
No way Snyder gives up the logo for free. It's a valuable image.
 
2021-12-07 11:26:08 AM  

Rwa2play: K, the obvious question must be asked:  Why would they design a logo for a team whose nickname was offensive towards Native Americans?


Because a single human's actions don't dictate what is or is not okay, and going "but this person is okay with it!" is silly.
 
2021-12-07 12:00:10 PM  
*sigh*  I've said for years here, the logo doesn't offend me, as a native american person, old name did.

I have no problem with the US Army naming their rotary winged platform after tribes:  "Comanche", "Apache", "Chinook", "Blackhawk", and so on.  it's a respectful way to honor us (evne though my tribe farking HATED the Apache).  just "redskin" was just out of bounds.

and yeah, there are Native folks who like the name.  there's no consensus but, everyone in my family hates it.  there are outliers.
 
2021-12-07 12:01:01 PM  
The logo was a composite of portraits of a Blackfeet chief named White Calf (who was marketed to wealthy tourists of Glacier National Park as Two Guns White Calf).


I'm just gonna assume there was a Blackfeet chief that was a huge gymbro.
 
2021-12-07 12:07:07 PM  

king of vegas: No way Snyder gives up the logo for free. It's a valuable image.


More of an issue: he's actively trying to kill that branding.  Even if he's not worried about them making money he's essentially giving them carte blanche to make unlicensed Washington football gear.

/They need a new logo, mascot, and colors
//It's the only way to kill the name unless they do something similar
 
2021-12-07 12:26:51 PM  

rickythepenguin: *sigh*  I've said for years here, the logo doesn't offend me, as a native american person, old name did.

I have no problem with the US Army naming their rotary winged platform after tribes:  "Comanche", "Apache", "Chinook", "Blackhawk", and so on.  it's a respectful way to honor us (evne though my tribe farking HATED the Apache).  just "redskin" was just out of bounds.

and yeah, there are Native folks who like the name.  there's no consensus but, everyone in my family hates it.  there are outliers.


As a non-native American, I'd just like to say thanks, that makes total sense.

Honest question -- what's your take on the whether or not the image should be repurposed?  On the surface, it seems like it's a legitimate request, but I can easily see it being a bit more of a "screw you" kind of move, too.
 
2021-12-07 12:42:46 PM  

Magorn: Rwa2play: K, the obvious question must be asked:  Why would they design a logo for a team whose nickname was offensive towards Native Americans?

It's been long used as a defense of the team and the name, because the Logo was very respectful and in fact, many native Americans sported gear with the logo because they appreciated it.  That said "O tempora O Mores"   There came a time when there were people with serious problems with the name, and there is no excuse for intentionally hurting some people because not everyone feels that way


I've gone both ways on this issue:  I began referring to the team as the 'skins about 30 years ago (exclusively) but I also like to point out that native Americans are originally from Central Russia, are thus both of European DNA and essentially white (I'm redder that most because of my scotch/Prussian ancestry) and that the term refers to the fact that the natives painted themselves with vermillion paint (red, for the average farker) when they went on the war path and not with the color of their skin, which was largely well-tanned because of outdoor living.  I worked for a law firm for 30 years that had a large number of native tribe clients (we won them a lot of money in lawsuits) and when the various chiefs came to visit and celebrate a win they virtually all liked the term.

I'm all in with the name change because in the end it has become a focal point issue for the PC crowd and I like to get away from the PC thing.

Of course, Hail to the What the Farks and their recent 5 game win streak and

BEAT THE COWPIES.
 
2021-12-07 12:54:00 PM  

king of vegas: No way Snyder gives up the logo for free. It's a valuable image.


If the logo no longer has copyright protection, all Snyder can do is throw money at lawyers for a case he'll lose, if it gets heard.
 
2021-12-07 12:55:34 PM  

rickythepenguin: *sigh*  I've said for years here, the logo doesn't offend me, as a native american person, old name did.

I have no problem with the US Army naming their rotary winged platform after tribes:  "Comanche", "Apache", "Chinook", "Blackhawk", and so on.  it's a respectful way to honor us (evne though my tribe farking HATED the Apache).  just "redskin" was just out of bounds.

and yeah, there are Native folks who like the name.  there's no consensus but, everyone in my family hates it.  there are outliers.


Like the Chicago Blackhawks are perfect. The name, the logo are all respectful of the tribe.
 
2021-12-07 12:58:35 PM  

mike_d85: king of vegas: No way Snyder gives up the logo for free. It's a valuable image.

More of an issue: he's actively trying to kill that branding.  Even if he's not worried about them making money he's essentially giving them carte blanche to make unlicensed Washington football gear.

/They need a new logo, mascot, and colors
//It's the only way to kill the name unless they do something similar


There was a team in the old WLAF called the Ohio Glory:

Fark user imageView Full Size


Wondering why Snyder just doesn't adopt that?
 
2021-12-07 1:24:15 PM  

Rwa2play: mike_d85: king of vegas: No way Snyder gives up the logo for free. It's a valuable image.

More of an issue: he's actively trying to kill that branding.  Even if he's not worried about them making money he's essentially giving them carte blanche to make unlicensed Washington football gear.

/They need a new logo, mascot, and colors
//It's the only way to kill the name unless they do something similar

There was a team in the old WLAF called the Ohio Glory:

[Fark user image 250x200]

Wondering why Snyder just doesn't adopt that?


Oh, I'll do you one better - Snyder at one time, in preparation for launching an Arena Football team that never came to be, trademarked "Washington Warriors."  Had the lawyers sew up all the pertinent rights to it with USPTO.  And this all could've been immediately, and easily, resolved simply by going with "Warriors" and changing iconography - with tens of millions of dollars in merch sales there for the fleecing from countless BDU-sniffing, "every soldier is a hero" thinkin' 'Murican rube out there.

He voluntarily surrendered them.
 
2021-12-07 1:43:33 PM  

king of vegas: No way Snyder gives up the logo for free. It's a valuable image.


Agreed  and while the PR boost he'd  get for giving it away for this purpose would likely outweigh it's financial value he won't see it that way.
 
2021-12-07 1:48:34 PM  
Maybe they can be like Cleveland Indians and steal their new name from a local area woman's roller derby team.
 
2021-12-07 2:09:45 PM  

Slow To Return: Honest question -- what's your take on the whether or not the image should be repurposed? On the surface, it seems like it's a legitimate request, but I can easily see it being a bit more of a "screw you" kind of move, too.


I don't have strong feelings about the logo.  or the Chicago Blackhawks logo.  Now, the Cleveland Indians logo, the bucktoothed guy, that annoyed me.  glad they're getting rid of it.

just, in this day and age - over and aside from how politically correct we've gotten (in other words, kinda arguing against myself, i see) the name Redskin.  come on.  I could trot out any number of equally offensive slurs (and get a fark timeout) but that was ok?  silly.

but the classic logo?  no real feelings about it.  keep it, that's fine, repurpose it, great, whatever.

it just annoys me when people cite that stupid 2003 or whatever SI survey, where they polled an absurdly small number of Indians, and then the questions were so loaded, it was like, no shiat.  "well we did a poll and 84% of Indians said they liked the Washington Redskins name and logo!"  well, when the question is, "would you rather see alcoholism eradicated, or the washington redskins name replaced?"

GEE, THAT'S A REAL HEADSCRATCHER.  stupid.

https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/military-culture/2019/11/15/a-warrior-tradition-why-native-americans-continue-fighting-for-the-same-government-that-tried-to-wipe-them-out/

WFT should honor how we have the highest per capita enlistment rate in the military, by ethnicity (me included, 6 years in the US Navy).
 
2021-12-07 2:10:06 PM  

grimlock1972: king of vegas: No way Snyder gives up the logo for free. It's a valuable image.

Agreed  and while the PR boost he'd  get for giving it away for this purpose would likely outweigh it's financial value he won't see it that way.


Oh no, he's trying to thread a needle.  If he actually does something to HELP native americans he'd have to insult them to keep the support of fans that don't want change.  I think this is the same reason he didn't change the color scheme and even kept the logo for a season: they have to take baby steps to keep the slew of bigots from bolting.  I think he's shooting for the frog in a boiling pot of water effect.
 
2021-12-07 2:15:27 PM  

Rwa2play: Like the Chicago Blackhawks are perfect. The name, the logo are all respectful of the tribe.


yeah, i just noted that in my reponse a moment ago.

there are respectful ways to honor the tribes and obv disrespectful.  the former NFL name, this was debated?  come on.

I don't like seeing people wear headdresses and cartoonish "warpaint", but I just roll my eyes and think it's dumb.  like we went to a Halloween party a few weeks ago and there was an "indian couple'.  my wife pulled me aside and goes, "please don't say anything, that's Sue and Jim, they're good friends of my best friend...."  i said, "oh, of course.  I think it's farking played, and it annoys me, but i'm not gonna go settle their hash about it."
 
2021-12-07 3:02:57 PM  
The Washington Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.
 
2021-12-07 3:48:17 PM  

Magorn: and there is no excuse for intentionally hurting some people because not everyone feels that way


This is certainly a poor example of this, as i can certainly understand people taking offense to the term redskin, but no, it is absolutely ok for you to step on people if they are upset over something that they are wrong on.

You going to stop criticizing the hard right for instance, or mocking them, or poking fun of them, because it upsets some of them?
 
2021-12-07 4:30:10 PM  

LineNoise: Magorn: and there is no excuse for intentionally hurting some people because not everyone feels that way

This is certainly a poor example of this, as i can certainly understand people taking offense to the term redskin, but no, it is absolutely ok for you to step on people if they are upset over something that they are wrong on.

You going to stop criticizing the hard right for instance, or mocking them, or poking fun of them, because it upsets some of them?


Well, I agree that ignorance is plentiful in our world today.
 
2021-12-07 4:40:29 PM  

LineNoise: Magorn: and there is no excuse for intentionally hurting some people because not everyone feels that way

This is certainly a poor example of this, as i can certainly understand people taking offense to the term redskin, but no, it is absolutely ok for you to step on people if they are upset over something that they are wrong on.

You going to stop criticizing the hard right for instance, or mocking them, or poking fun of them, because it upsets some of them?


I have to wonder where is the line as well; what % of people says something is offensive, does it turn to be offensive for everyone?
 
2021-12-07 4:57:02 PM  

smd31: LineNoise: Magorn: and there is no excuse for intentionally hurting some people because not everyone feels that way

This is certainly a poor example of this, as i can certainly understand people taking offense to the term redskin, but no, it is absolutely ok for you to step on people if they are upset over something that they are wrong on.

You going to stop criticizing the hard right for instance, or mocking them, or poking fun of them, because it upsets some of them?

I have to wonder where is the line as well; what % of people says something is offensive, does it turn to be offensive for everyone?


Just because you can find a quorum of people who will say something is offensive or not doesn't make it right or wrong. Its a really shiatty way of viewing the world, as you are just asking others what your opinion should be rather than forming one yourself and considering the issue, being reflective, etc. Going off where the numbers fall means your opinion is only based on how you perceive others will view you, and your view will be skewed by those around you.

I mean for farks sake, you are on fark, people will be offended at anything on here just to be able to grandstand and tell us they are offended and you suck because you upset them, because that is all they have going for them.
 
2021-12-07 5:08:39 PM  

LineNoise: I mean for farks sake, you are on fark, people will be offended at anything on here just to be able to grandstand and tell us they are offended and you suck because you upset them, because that is all they have going for them.


dude.  reported.

I am offended and you suck because you upset me.
 
2021-12-07 5:17:11 PM  
This IP is more than ten years old. Let's call an expert and see what he thinks.
 
2021-12-07 5:57:31 PM  

rickythepenguin: LineNoise: I mean for farks sake, you are on fark, people will be offended at anything on here just to be able to grandstand and tell us they are offended and you suck because you upset them, because that is all they have going for them.

dude.  reported.

I am offended and you suck because you upset me.


well i just reported you because you upset me for reporting me man.
 
2021-12-07 9:01:31 PM  

Rwa2play: K, the obvious question must be asked:  Why would they design a logo for a team whose nickname was offensive towards Native Americans?


It was at a time when any depictions vaguely positive or realistic, not cartoonish, was a step up. It was a bad time.
 
2021-12-07 10:35:52 PM  

Magorn: Rwa2play: K, the obvious question must be asked:  Why would they design a logo for a team whose nickname was offensive towards Native Americans?

It's been long used as a defense of the team and the name, because the Logo was very respectful and in fact, many native Americans sported gear with the logo because they appreciated it.  That said "O tempora O Mores"   There came a time when there were people with serious problems with the name, and there is no excuse for intentionally hurting some people because not everyone feels that way


or, you know, they could just get over it and live life
 
2021-12-08 6:53:26 AM  

Bob Dolemite: Magorn: Rwa2play: K, the obvious question must be asked:  Why would they design a logo for a team whose nickname was offensive towards Native Americans?

It's been long used as a defense of the team and the name, because the Logo was very respectful and in fact, many native Americans sported gear with the logo because they appreciated it.  That said "O tempora O Mores"   There came a time when there were people with serious problems with the name, and there is no excuse for intentionally hurting some people because not everyone feels that way

or, you know, they could just get over it and live life


It must be so frustrating to be white all of the time and everyone else is wrong.
 
2021-12-08 10:58:05 AM  

Rwa2play: mike_d85: king of vegas: No way Snyder gives up the logo for free. It's a valuable image.

More of an issue: he's actively trying to kill that branding.  Even if he's not worried about them making money he's essentially giving them carte blanche to make unlicensed Washington football gear.

/They need a new logo, mascot, and colors
//It's the only way to kill the name unless they do something similar

There was a team in the old WLAF called the Ohio Glory:

[Fark user image 250x200]

Wondering why Snyder just doesn't adopt that?


Before the Glory, they were the
funwhileitlasted.netView Full Size

and had to leave Raleigh because they went 0-10 and were just farking awful.

So yeah, that's a legacy befitting Danny Boy.
 
2021-12-08 1:28:14 PM  

UNC_Samurai: Rwa2play: mike_d85: king of vegas: No way Snyder gives up the logo for free. It's a valuable image.

More of an issue: he's actively trying to kill that branding.  Even if he's not worried about them making money he's essentially giving them carte blanche to make unlicensed Washington football gear.

/They need a new logo, mascot, and colors
//It's the only way to kill the name unless they do something similar

There was a team in the old WLAF called the Ohio Glory:

[Fark user image 250x200]

Wondering why Snyder just doesn't adopt that?

Before the Glory, they were the
[funwhileitlasted.net image 400x559]
and had to leave Raleigh because they went 0-10 and were just farking awful.

So yeah, that's a legacy befitting Danny Boy.


To be fair, wonder why the Philadelphia Flyers don't' use a variation of that as a new logo.
 
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