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(CNN)   You'd think the CEO of a company named "Better.com" would do better than firing 900 employees at the same time on a Zoom call. But that's really not the world we live in anymore, is it?   (cnn.com) divider line
    More: Murica, Termination of employment, fortress balance sheet, part of the unlucky group, time of year, second time, last time, CFO Kevin Ryan, layoffs  
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699 clicks; posted to Business » and Main » on 06 Dec 2021 at 8:50 AM (23 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



44 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-12-06 8:49:24 AM  
This Garg guy is a last minute entry in the yearly contest of, "Who Most Needs a Dick-Punching".
 
2021-12-06 8:53:42 AM  
It's a better way of screwing emplyees.
 
2021-12-06 8:59:23 AM  
"However a fortress balance sheet and a reduced and focused workforce together set us up to play offense going into a radically evolving homeownership market."

-------

1. Mass-firing with one-way communication instead of having direct managers break the news.
2. Focus on your feelings as the one doing the firing.
3. Stay stuck in "CEO pitching to investors" mode about how these layoffs are actually a good thing for the company, because the people you're firing are totes worried about the company right then.
4. Also biatch about "time theft" among WFH employees and paint all the people you're laying off with the same broad brush.

I am not in any kind of executive role and I still know not to do those things just from accidentally skimming those stupid management training spam emails that I somehow got signed up for for some reason.
 
2021-12-06 9:04:39 AM  
Be Better. Don't be Better.com.

/Garg is a coont.
 
2021-12-06 9:06:07 AM  
FTFA:

Garg cited market efficiency, performance and productivity as the reason behind the firings. Fortune later reported Garg accused the employees of "stealing" from their colleagues and customers by being unproductive and only working two hours a day.

I'm using Better for my mortgage.

Unlike traditional mortgage lenders, they don't require that you submit your W2, paystubs, bank account records, etc. when applying for a pre-approval letter - they just run a credit check. I assume that saves them a huge amount of time because not everyone applying for pre-approval letter goes through with the mortgage (especially because people shop around for the best rate). And how much work is really involved in reviewing mortgage applications? It seems like it takes five minutes to verify someone's income and finances best on all of the documents they must submit, and then when someone moves forward with the mortgage, I'm guessing that process only takes twist and turns if there's a serious discrepancy between the sale price and appraised value.
 
2021-12-06 9:07:16 AM  

Martian_Astronomer: "However a fortress balance sheet and a reduced and focused workforce together set us up to play offense going into a radically evolving homeownership market."

-------

1. Mass-firing with one-way communication instead of having direct managers break the news.
2. Focus on your feelings as the one doing the firing.
3. Stay stuck in "CEO pitching to investors" mode about how these layoffs are actually a good thing for the company, because the people you're firing are totes worried about the company right then.
4. Also biatch about "time theft" among WFH employees and paint all the people you're laying off with the same broad brush.

I am not in any kind of executive role and I still know not to do those things just from accidentally skimming those stupid management training spam emails that I somehow got signed up for for some reason.


Don't forget the recent massive capital infusion that belied any need to fire workers.
 
2021-12-06 9:08:02 AM  
res.cloudinary.comView Full Size

Garg..
Zarg..
Zorg


64.media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2021-12-06 9:15:11 AM  
This is the thin edge of the wedge - WFH is not going away.
Management will start producing these videos in advance in consideration of their feelings (not yours of course, your fired).

And that's why I Fark during work.
 
2021-12-06 9:15:28 AM  

thornhill: FTFA:

Garg cited market efficiency, performance and productivity as the reason behind the firings. Fortune later reported Garg accused the employees of "stealing" from their colleagues and customers by being unproductive and only working two hours a day.

I'm using Better for my mortgage.

Unlike traditional mortgage lenders, they don't require that you submit your W2, paystubs, bank account records, etc. when applying for a pre-approval letter - they just run a credit check. I assume that saves them a huge amount of time because not everyone applying for pre-approval letter goes through with the mortgage (especially because people shop around for the best rate). And how much work is really involved in reviewing mortgage applications? It seems like it takes five minutes to verify someone's income and finances best on all of the documents they must submit, and then when someone moves forward with the mortgage, I'm guessing that process only takes twist and turns if there's a serious discrepancy between the sale price and appraised value.


same.

I'm also using Better Real Estate for the 1% closing credit.

Shop around for lawyers though. Better's recommended lawyers were much more expensive than the lawyer I ended up with.
 
2021-12-06 9:19:27 AM  
TBH:

There is no "good" way to lay people off, especially in large numbers. There's also no "good" option this time of year - you either do it before the holidays and ruin everyone's holiday, or you do it after when everyone has just spent a ton of money on holidays, travel, parties and gifts.

A 900 person mass layoff sucks via zoom. It sucks via letter. It sucks via 900 in person meetings with managers of varying levels of diplomatic skills.
 
2021-12-06 9:20:38 AM  

Martian_Astronomer: "However a fortress balance sheet and a reduced and focused workforce together set us up to play offense going into a radically evolving homeownership market."

-------

1. Mass-firing with one-way communication instead of having direct managers break the news.
2. Focus on your feelings as the one doing the firing.
3. Stay stuck in "CEO pitching to investors" mode about how these layoffs are actually a good thing for the company, because the people you're firing are totes worried about the company right then.
4. Also biatch about "time theft" among WFH employees and paint all the people you're laying off with the same broad brush.

I am not in any kind of executive role and I still know not to do those things just from accidentally skimming those stupid management training spam emails that I somehow got signed up for for some reason.


It's time theft when you let your dog out when you're WFH.

It's team player when you stay 90 minutes late, unpaid of course, to finish up a task that there was no reasonable way you could have completed in the time given to you
 
2021-12-06 9:21:08 AM  

Martian_Astronomer: "However a fortress balance sheet and a reduced and focused workforce together set us up to play offense going into a radically evolving homeownership market."

-------

1. Mass-firing with one-way communication instead of having direct managers break the news.
2. Focus on your feelings as the one doing the firing.
3. Stay stuck in "CEO pitching to investors" mode about how these layoffs are actually a good thing for the company, because the people you're firing are totes worried about the company right then.
4. Also biatch about "time theft" among WFH employees and paint all the people you're laying off with the same broad brush.

I am not in any kind of executive role and I still know not to do those things just from accidentally skimming those stupid management training spam emails that I somehow got signed up for for some reason.


What's really missing from his statement is the bottom-line impact to their comprehensive synergies for an agile, proactive paradigm shift. If he circles back at the end of the day, the stakeholders could start an inclusive scrum that sets a new normal and they could finally move the needle.

/Also, next-level blockchain cloud server.
 
2021-12-06 9:21:14 AM  
At least the CEO will get a Better bonus with 600 less plebeians around
 
2021-12-06 9:29:46 AM  

Gubbo: Martian_Astronomer: "However a fortress balance sheet and a reduced and focused workforce together set us up to play offense going into a radically evolving homeownership market."

-------

1. Mass-firing with one-way communication instead of having direct managers break the news.
2. Focus on your feelings as the one doing the firing.
3. Stay stuck in "CEO pitching to investors" mode about how these layoffs are actually a good thing for the company, because the people you're firing are totes worried about the company right then.
4. Also biatch about "time theft" among WFH employees and paint all the people you're laying off with the same broad brush.

I am not in any kind of executive role and I still know not to do those things just from accidentally skimming those stupid management training spam emails that I somehow got signed up for for some reason.

It's time theft when you let your dog out when you're WFH.

It's team player when you stay 90 minutes late, unpaid of course, to finish up a task that there was no reasonable way you could have completed in the time given to you


Or you are stuck in a hallway for half an hour listening to someone above you talking about their weekend of golf at a resort that would take you a month's pay just to walk in the door.
 
2021-12-06 9:33:37 AM  

GardenWeasel: Be Better. Don't be Better.com.

/Garg is a coont.


But if Melania told me to "Be Best" and that failed, what are my options now?
 
2021-12-06 9:36:03 AM  

haknudsen: Gubbo: Martian_Astronomer: "However a fortress balance sheet and a reduced and focused workforce together set us up to play offense going into a radically evolving homeownership market."

-------

1. Mass-firing with one-way communication instead of having direct managers break the news.
2. Focus on your feelings as the one doing the firing.
3. Stay stuck in "CEO pitching to investors" mode about how these layoffs are actually a good thing for the company, because the people you're firing are totes worried about the company right then.
4. Also biatch about "time theft" among WFH employees and paint all the people you're laying off with the same broad brush.

I am not in any kind of executive role and I still know not to do those things just from accidentally skimming those stupid management training spam emails that I somehow got signed up for for some reason.

It's time theft when you let your dog out when you're WFH.

It's team player when you stay 90 minutes late, unpaid of course, to finish up a task that there was no reasonable way you could have completed in the time given to you

Or you are stuck in a hallway for half an hour listening to someone above you talking about their weekend of golf at a resort that would take you a month's pay just to walk in the door.


That's, is that the valuable office dynamic that management keeps talking about.

The one that fosters creativity?
 
2021-12-06 9:36:35 AM  

Martian_Astronomer: "However a fortress balance sheet and a reduced and focused workforce together set us up to play offense going into a radically evolving homeownership market."

-------

1. Mass-firing with one-way communication instead of having direct managers break the news.
2. Focus on your feelings as the one doing the firing.
3. Stay stuck in "CEO pitching to investors" mode about how these layoffs are actually a good thing for the company, because the people you're firing are totes worried about the company right then.
4. Also biatch about "time theft" among WFH employees and paint all the people you're laying off with the same broad brush.

I am not in any kind of executive role and I still know not to do those things just from accidentally skimming those stupid management training spam emails that I somehow got signed up for for some reason.


I read that in Prince Farquard's voice.

Over/Under they are about to get acquired? (Yeah, FTA said something about some capital raising. I think it's going much deeper than that)
 
2021-12-06 9:38:54 AM  

JAGChem82: GardenWeasel: Be Better. Don't be Better.com.

/Garg is a coont.

But if Melania told me to "Be Best" and that failed, what are my options now?


Melania was specifically talking about being the best horrible person possible.
 
2021-12-06 9:56:35 AM  

Another Government Employee: Martian_Astronomer: "However a fortress balance sheet and a reduced and focused workforce together set us up to play offense going into a radically evolving homeownership market."

-------

1. Mass-firing with one-way communication instead of having direct managers break the news.
2. Focus on your feelings as the one doing the firing.
3. Stay stuck in "CEO pitching to investors" mode about how these layoffs are actually a good thing for the company, because the people you're firing are totes worried about the company right then.
4. Also biatch about "time theft" among WFH employees and paint all the people you're laying off with the same broad brush.

I am not in any kind of executive role and I still know not to do those things just from accidentally skimming those stupid management training spam emails that I somehow got signed up for for some reason.

I read that in Prince Farquard's voice.

Over/Under they are about to get acquired? (Yeah, FTA said something about some capital raising. I think it's going much deeper than that)


If you're trying to sell yourself, cutting head count to goose your numbers is a plan.

If its already essentially done, you let the new company deal with that and the fallout and negative press.
 
2021-12-06 9:59:28 AM  

Gubbo: It's time theft when you let your dog out when you're WFH.

It's team player when you stay 90 minutes late, unpaid of course, to finish up a task that there was no reasonable way you could have completed in the time given to you


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-12-06 9:59:32 AM  

wingnut396: Garg


There is prior art:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-12-06 10:00:14 AM  
Gotta love the fact that the CEO's name sounds like that of a sci-fi villain.

/as a few have already pointed out in this thread, actually
 
2021-12-06 10:06:41 AM  
Didn't the fed last week announce it would probably start raising rates to curb inflation in 2022?

They are probably cutting dead weight now instead of when business really takes a hit with higher rates.
 
2021-12-06 10:39:02 AM  
What a neat trick, "If you are on this call..."

Better.com boss uses Zoom call to lay off 900 employees
Youtube 9nBQGWF4Cpg
 
2021-12-06 11:02:11 AM  
I used Better for one of my multitudes of refinances. Started off very shady, rate offered was not at all what they advertised. Usually, I just ignore bs brokers like that. But I replied to one of their emails, and they actually sorted it out for me - somehow left my app with a hardcoded discount that floated with rate changes over the next couple of weeks until I locked.

Everything went smoothly after that and the loan closed with all the costs & rate expected. But I still assume bait & switch was part of their business plan.
 
2021-12-06 11:30:44 AM  

eKonk: Martian_Astronomer: "However a fortress balance sheet and a reduced and focused workforce together set us up to play offense going into a radically evolving homeownership market."

-------

1. Mass-firing with one-way communication instead of having direct managers break the news.
2. Focus on your feelings as the one doing the firing.
3. Stay stuck in "CEO pitching to investors" mode about how these layoffs are actually a good thing for the company, because the people you're firing are totes worried about the company right then.
4. Also biatch about "time theft" among WFH employees and paint all the people you're laying off with the same broad brush.

I am not in any kind of executive role and I still know not to do those things just from accidentally skimming those stupid management training spam emails that I somehow got signed up for for some reason.

What's really missing from his statement is the bottom-line impact to their comprehensive synergies for an agile, proactive paradigm shift. If he circles back at the end of the day, the stakeholders could start an inclusive scrum that sets a new normal and they could finally move the needle.

/Also, next-level blockchain cloud server.


would you like to coengineer a set of paradigm shattering b-to-b e-commerce solutions, synced directly to the cloud?  our goal is to stay on the bleeding edge of data for today's global social media driven marketplace.

submit your resume, then please enter all of the information from your resume into a separate form.

Contractor pay starts at 11.25/hr with increases based on shareholder return.
 
2021-12-06 11:31:45 AM  

Target Builder: TBH:

There is no "good" way to lay people off, especially in large numbers. There's also no "good" option this time of year - you either do it before the holidays and ruin everyone's holiday, or you do it after when everyone has just spent a ton of money on holidays, travel, parties and gifts.

A 900 person mass layoff sucks via zoom. It sucks via letter. It sucks via 900 in person meetings with managers of varying levels of diplomatic skills.


It also wasn't really a layoff they had to do. They chose to do it.
 
2021-12-06 12:01:16 PM  
Vishal Garg, Better.com's CEO, is a real scumbag. YouTuber "A Life after Layoff" details what he has done and also shows the Better.com layoff Zoom call.

The Bizarre Circumstance behind the Better.com Layoffs - A Tale of a Toxic Workplace
Youtube lJ1NcVA3EOA
 
2021-12-06 12:51:04 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-12-06 1:01:10 PM  

Target Builder: TBH:

There is no "good" way to lay people off, especially in large numbers. There's also no "good" option this time of year - you either do it before the holidays and ruin everyone's holiday, or you do it after when everyone has just spent a ton of money on holidays, travel, parties and gifts.

A 900 person mass layoff sucks via zoom. It sucks via letter. It sucks via 900 in person meetings with managers of varying levels of diplomatic skills.


He could at least dress up as Ebenezer Scrooge.  I mean, if you gonna do it, do it right.
 
2021-12-06 1:18:40 PM  
I used Ally for my last refi, which is a partner with Better and they use the exact same backend and website UI so I essentially was using Better.  I can't say the experience was bad but it did take about two months to get it all done.  They asked for a ton of documents and information but generally I had people watching out for me and not just a bunch of AI responses.  My points fees changed midway through due to some circumstance I disclosed (can't remember what) so that irked me and they had a lot of trouble with the subordination process because of my small HELOC. The HELOC people refused to subordinate and it took so long I was going past the rate lock deadline which I told them if they can't extend that then we were done. They extended it real quick and I was able to finally close for a very nice rate.  Keep in mind better is just the first broker and they will 100% will sell your loan servicing off to someone else.  We got Mr. Cooper.  :/
 
2021-12-06 2:15:06 PM  
Garg? Someone needs to smurf him right in the smurf.
 
2021-12-06 2:23:58 PM  
The mortgage industry is having a downturn now that refi demand is disappearing.
https://nationalmortgageprofessional.com/news/lenders-cost-cutting-axe-begins-its-arc
 
2021-12-06 2:49:12 PM  
How are mortgage companies laying off when the housing market is so hot please explain to a simple fellow like me
 
2021-12-06 2:57:36 PM  

Tannhauser: How are mortgage companies laying off when the housing market is so hot please explain to a simple fellow like me


corporate cash buyers?
 
2021-12-06 3:00:38 PM  

Hyjamon: Tannhauser: How are mortgage companies laying off when the housing market is so hot please explain to a simple fellow like me

corporate cash buyers?



They have gone from making money hand over fist to just hand over hand, so something must be done.
 
2021-12-06 3:23:25 PM  

Gubbo: Martian_Astronomer: "However a fortress balance sheet and a reduced and focused workforce together set us up to play offense going into a radically evolving homeownership market."

-------

1. Mass-firing with one-way communication instead of having direct managers break the news.
2. Focus on your feelings as the one doing the firing.
3. Stay stuck in "CEO pitching to investors" mode about how these layoffs are actually a good thing for the company, because the people you're firing are totes worried about the company right then.
4. Also biatch about "time theft" among WFH employees and paint all the people you're laying off with the same broad brush.

I am not in any kind of executive role and I still know not to do those things just from accidentally skimming those stupid management training spam emails that I somehow got signed up for for some reason.

It's time theft when you let your dog out when you're WFH.

It's team player when you stay 90 minutes late, unpaid of course, to finish up a task that there was no reasonable way you could have completed in the time given to you


Who is the real Time Burglar?

Or are they Time Bandits?
 
2021-12-06 3:55:35 PM  

hammettman: What a neat trick, "If you are on this call..."

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/9nBQGWF4Cpg]


Better than at my last job. They brought us all into a room and had us stand by chairs. Then they said, "Sit down if you still have a job.... not so fast, Johnson!"
 
2021-12-06 5:57:57 PM  

Tannhauser: How are mortgage companies laying off when the housing market is so hot please explain to a simple fellow like me


Mortgage companies make money off of new mortgages and refinances - but refinance volume is shrinking fast. New mortgage issuance is growing, but not enough to offset the decline in refinances. Refinances are also more profitable for mortgage firms.

Refinances are down 40% from last year.

https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/mortgages/articles/mortgage-refinance-demand-plunged-15-last-week/
 
2021-12-06 10:00:26 PM  

Resin33: hammettman: What a neat trick, "If you are on this call..."

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/9nBQGWF4Cpg]

Better than at my last job. They brought us all into a room and had us stand by chairs. Then they said, "Sit down if you still have a job.... not so fast, Johnson!"


I worked for Lowe's. That's basically how they told everyone they are closing the store. They asked who's working Monday. People who raised their hands were told that they are going to be assisting in closing the store, everyone else is out of work.
 
2021-12-07 8:24:17 AM  
This was one of the worst ways to handle a layoff for sure. But my company probably exceeded it.

They sent out an email - to Everyone - that they were going to decimate us (fire 10%). The email explained that if you're getting fired, you'll get a phone call in the next 30 minutes. So for half an hour, everyone sat there, waiting for the phone to ring or the computer to go dark.

It was excruciating.
 
2021-12-07 8:30:04 AM  

Lochaber_Axe: I used Ally for my last refi, which is a partner with Better and they use the exact same backend and website UI so I essentially was using Better.  I can't say the experience was bad but it did take about two months to get it all done.  They asked for a ton of documents and information but generally I had people watching out for me and not just a bunch of AI responses.  My points fees changed midway through due to some circumstance I disclosed (can't remember what) so that irked me and they had a lot of trouble with the subordination process because of my small HELOC. The HELOC people refused to subordinate and it took so long I was going past the rate lock deadline which I told them if they can't extend that then we were done. They extended it real quick and I was able to finally close for a very nice rate.  Keep in mind better is just the first broker and they will 100% will sell your loan servicing off to someone else.  We got Mr. Cooper.  :/


I used Better on my last refi as well. Decent process, and great rate, but like you said - they will 100% sell your mortgage after close. I ended up with lakeside, who by all accounts, are scum. I think an unwritten part of "better"'s business plan is to make refinance or purchase easy, then put your mortgage with a bottom feeding servicing company who is just waiting for you to make a mistake so they can tack on fees or seize your home for resale.
 
2021-12-07 9:52:04 AM  

thornhill: FTFA:

Garg cited market efficiency, performance and productivity as the reason behind the firings. Fortune later reported Garg accused the employees of "stealing" from their colleagues and customers by being unproductive and only working two hours a day.

I'm using Better for my mortgage.

Unlike traditional mortgage lenders, they don't require that you submit your W2, paystubs, bank account records, etc. when applying for a pre-approval letter - they just run a credit check. I assume that saves them a huge amount of time because not everyone applying for pre-approval letter goes through with the mortgage (especially because people shop around for the best rate). And how much work is really involved in reviewing mortgage applications? It seems like it takes five minutes to verify someone's income and finances best on all of the documents they must submit, and then when someone moves forward with the mortgage, I'm guessing that process only takes twist and turns if there's a serious discrepancy between the sale price and appraised value.


For the bolded bit, more than you would think. The people who do it, especially on high end cases, or higher LTV cases, or cases where any thought is required are called underwriters. As for how long, it depends on how complicated the case is, how straightforward the documents you and everyone has submitted are, and whether they think there is any type of fraud involved that should be investigated.  So, maybe fast? Maybe a lot.
 
2021-12-07 11:26:10 AM  
I don't have an issue with a Zoom call if you are announcing layoffs and want to give the people effected a heads up before it's announced publicly and want it to come directly from you.

I have issue with this being the actual termination meeting and of course with everything said during the call.

They had better be providing three months severance under WARN.
 
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