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(WFLA Tampa Bay)   Yesterday in History: don't act like you remembered   (wfla.com) divider line
    More: Strange, Atlantic Ocean, Bermuda Triangle, routine training mission, Ft. Lauderdale Naval Air Station, final radio call, rest of time, radar stations, United States Navy  
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4303 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Dec 2021 at 6:35 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



36 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-12-06 6:42:50 AM  
While I'll admit not remembering, it would explain why the great cable programming AI had Close Encounters on HBO yesterday
 
2021-12-06 6:52:04 AM  

jaycharms: While I'll admit not remembering, it would explain why the great cable programming AI had Close Encounters on HBO yesterday


Hush, and stop playing with your mashed potatoes.
 
2021-12-06 6:55:13 AM  
It would be more supernatural if only the planes hadn't been found some time back.
 
2021-12-06 6:57:45 AM  
Roky Erickson - Bermuda
Youtube uqYk-wXfVCA
 
2021-12-06 7:01:19 AM  
Some squadrons take to anal probing better than others.
 
2021-12-06 7:01:55 AM  
In middle school we had to write short historical fiction stories, I based mine on this. I don't remember much about it, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't very good.
 
2021-12-06 7:03:01 AM  
TLDR: do not fly visually. Use your instruments. These days, they actually put lampshades on pilot trainees so they cannot look out the front.

/ seriously.

// The instructor is right next to them, unlampshaded.
 
2021-12-06 7:06:29 AM  

thealgorerhythm: jaycharms: While I'll admit not remembering, it would explain why the great cable programming AI had Close Encounters on HBO yesterday

Hush, and stop playing with your mashed potatoes.


th.bing.comView Full Size
 
2021-12-06 7:13:46 AM  

iheartscotch: Use your instruments.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-12-06 7:27:34 AM  

iheartscotch: TLDR: do not fly visually. Use your instruments. These days, they actually put lampshades on pilot trainees so they cannot look out the front.


Wait. All those those lamp-shaded hours where I thought I was the life of the party I was actually training to be a pilot? What the hell is even real anymore?
 
2021-12-06 7:34:06 AM  

iheartscotch: TLDR: do not fly visually. Use your instruments. These days, they actually put lampshades on pilot trainees so they cannot look out the front.

/ seriously.

// The instructor is right next to them, unlampshaded.


It was a lot harder to do back then, on account of instruments not being nearly as efficient as they are today.

Turns out that the idea that the five planes flew off into the clear blue sky and mysteriously vanished was quite wrong. A documentary in the 90s, I believe, reviewed actual records of the day, and interviews taken at the time (rather than memories of what someone's uncle heard a pilot saying once), and discovered that the weather was very bad, with poor visibility and rain squalls. The pilots had not been fully trained on the onboard radar (that was indeed one purpose of the flight) and owing to the lack of satellite communications oddly enough, radio was patchy and unreliable at times in bad weather.

Based on the pilots' data and information given, the filmmakers came to the conclusion that what had happened was that the flight had become disoriented and begun to mistrust their instruments, and attempted to use dead reckoning to fly back to base; in so doing they overshot the base and were flying west over the land when they believed they were flying east over the ocean (hence the famous statement "the water looks strange").

Running low on fuel, they turned again and headed "west" (east) and crashed. The filmmakers charted their approximate course, peered down into the water at that location...and saw an airplane. Subsequent dives at that location found aircraft parts with partial serial numbers that matched those of the lost flight. At this late date it's unlikely the planes will ever be found, but that's probably the most likely story.
 
2021-12-06 7:38:39 AM  

Gyrfalcon: iheartscotch: TLDR: do not fly visually. Use your instruments. These days, they actually put lampshades on pilot trainees so they cannot look out the front.

/ seriously.

// The instructor is right next to them, unlampshaded.

It was a lot harder to do back then, on account of instruments not being nearly as efficient as they are today.

Turns out that the idea that the five planes flew off into the clear blue sky and mysteriously vanished was quite wrong. A documentary in the 90s, I believe, reviewed actual records of the day, and interviews taken at the time (rather than memories of what someone's uncle heard a pilot saying once), and discovered that the weather was very bad, with poor visibility and rain squalls. The pilots had not been fully trained on the onboard radar (that was indeed one purpose of the flight) and owing to the lack of satellite communications oddly enough, radio was patchy and unreliable at times in bad weather.

Based on the pilots' data and information given, the filmmakers came to the conclusion that what had happened was that the flight had become disoriented and begun to mistrust their instruments, and attempted to use dead reckoning to fly back to base; in so doing they overshot the base and were flying west over the land when they believed they were flying east over the ocean (hence the famous statement "the water looks strange").

Running low on fuel, they turned again and headed "west" (east) and crashed. The filmmakers charted their approximate course, peered down into the water at that location...and saw an airplane. Subsequent dives at that location found aircraft parts with partial serial numbers that matched those of the lost flight. At this late date it's unlikely the planes will ever be found, but that's probably the most likely story.


You can't fool me with your logic.
 
2021-12-06 7:40:32 AM  
It's really weird how all the stories about the Bermuda Triangle more or less stopped shortly after the first weather satellites were launched and we could see where all the fricking hurricanes were in that part of the ocean.  I'm sure there is no connection between the two events.
 
2021-12-06 7:42:28 AM  

Gyrfalcon: iheartscotch: TLDR: do not fly visually. Use your instruments. These days, they actually put lampshades on pilot trainees so they cannot look out the front.

/ seriously.

// The instructor is right next to them, unlampshaded.

It was a lot harder to do back then, on account of instruments not being nearly as efficient as they are today.

Turns out that the idea that the five planes flew off into the clear blue sky and mysteriously vanished was quite wrong. A documentary in the 90s, I believe, reviewed actual records of the day, and interviews taken at the time (rather than memories of what someone's uncle heard a pilot saying once), and discovered that the weather was very bad, with poor visibility and rain squalls. The pilots had not been fully trained on the onboard radar (that was indeed one purpose of the flight) and owing to the lack of satellite communications oddly enough, radio was patchy and unreliable at times in bad weather.

Based on the pilots' data and information given, the filmmakers came to the conclusion that what had happened was that the flight had become disoriented and begun to mistrust their instruments, and attempted to use dead reckoning to fly back to base; in so doing they overshot the base and were flying west over the land when they believed they were flying east over the ocean (hence the famous statement "the water looks strange").

Running low on fuel, they turned again and headed "west" (east) and crashed. The filmmakers charted their approximate course, peered down into the water at that location...and saw an airplane. Subsequent dives at that location found aircraft parts with partial serial numbers that matched those of the lost flight. At this late date it's unlikely the planes will ever be found, but that's probably the most likely story.


I miss the pre internet era when it was hard to look up the mitigating factors and instead you had to rely on the sensational made up details

"A candle was still burning on the Mary Celeste!"
 
2021-12-06 7:55:51 AM  
Meh, the only important thing yesterday in history was the repeal of the Eighteenth Amendment, and you're damn right I remembered and celebrated.
 
2021-12-06 8:07:56 AM  
"Way down in Bermuda, down in the triangle."
 
2021-12-06 8:08:30 AM  
Which Bermuda Triangle? It changes size depending on what "incident" someone wants to include.
 
2021-12-06 8:18:21 AM  
This incident pops up on unsolved mysteries or mysteries of the unknown and other shows like that all the time.
 
2021-12-06 8:18:46 AM  
It was a streetlight
 
2021-12-06 8:24:12 AM  
i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2021-12-06 8:27:36 AM  
Yesterday in History: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repea​l​_of_Prohibition_in_the_United_States

I thought more Farkers would know this.
 
2021-12-06 8:30:12 AM  

Fano: Gyrfalcon: iheartscotch: TLDR: do not fly visually. Use your instruments. These days, they actually put lampshades on pilot trainees so they cannot look out the front.

/ seriously.

// The instructor is right next to them, unlampshaded.

It was a lot harder to do back then, on account of instruments not being nearly as efficient as they are today.

Turns out that the idea that the five planes flew off into the clear blue sky and mysteriously vanished was quite wrong. A documentary in the 90s, I believe, reviewed actual records of the day, and interviews taken at the time (rather than memories of what someone's uncle heard a pilot saying once), and discovered that the weather was very bad, with poor visibility and rain squalls. The pilots had not been fully trained on the onboard radar (that was indeed one purpose of the flight) and owing to the lack of satellite communications oddly enough, radio was patchy and unreliable at times in bad weather.

Based on the pilots' data and information given, the filmmakers came to the conclusion that what had happened was that the flight had become disoriented and begun to mistrust their instruments, and attempted to use dead reckoning to fly back to base; in so doing they overshot the base and were flying west over the land when they believed they were flying east over the ocean (hence the famous statement "the water looks strange").

Running low on fuel, they turned again and headed "west" (east) and crashed. The filmmakers charted their approximate course, peered down into the water at that location...and saw an airplane. Subsequent dives at that location found aircraft parts with partial serial numbers that matched those of the lost flight. At this late date it's unlikely the planes will ever be found, but that's probably the most likely story.

I miss the pre internet era when it was hard to look up the mitigating factors and instead you had to rely on the sensational made up details

"A candle was still burning on the Mar ...


I read a book in the 70s, that was written in the 60s? maybe, about the Bermuda Triangle.  It basically came to the conclusion that the ocean is big, the gulf stream, tides, and wind makes dangerous conditions.  Shipping lanes exist, and humans make stupid conditions.  Ships and planes have trouble all over the world.

Same basic deal, they used the "Bermuda Triangle" as a hook, to get people to read/watch, then just kept to the facts.  Nothing new, just like this article has us all here commenting.
 
2021-12-06 8:41:05 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Which Bermuda Triangle? It changes size depending on what "incident" someone wants to include.


Malaysian Flight 370 hit the triangle around Kuala Lampur.
 
2021-12-06 8:53:41 AM  
Was it Dre again? Ugh! I'm so sick of these motherfarkers acting like they forgot about Dre.
 
2021-12-06 9:42:41 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Subsequent dives at that location found aircraft parts with partial serial numbers that matched those of the lost flight.


Cite?

Because fwiw the wiki page disagrees
 
2021-12-06 9:57:50 AM  
At an estate sale yesterday, I almost picked up a couple of Erich von Daniken's "Chariots of the Gods" type books that blew my mind as a kid. Flipping through the grainy old black & white photos of huge patterns carved in the desert floor and hieroglyphs that vaguely resemble aliens in glass-bubble space helmets took me right back to the 1970's, when I was fairly certain I'd run across bigfoot if I wandered around the woods behind my house long enough.
 
2021-12-06 10:10:13 AM  
Statistics ruined the Bermuda Triangle. It's been shown that for the amount of TRAFFIC the area gets, it doesn't have any higher incidents of missing anything than any other stretch of open ocean.
 
2021-12-06 10:33:54 AM  

Pats_Cloth_Coat: Gyrfalcon: Subsequent dives at that location found aircraft parts with partial serial numbers that matched those of the lost flight.

Cite?

Because fwiw the wiki page disagrees


"Records showed training accidents between 1942 and 1945 accounted for the loss of 95 aviation personnel from NAS Fort Lauderdale"

Wow, was flight training just bad in those days, or was the TBM particularly difficult to handle? That seems like a lot of accidents for non-combat flights.
 
2021-12-06 10:45:53 AM  

Arkanaut: Pats_Cloth_Coat: Gyrfalcon: Subsequent dives at that location found aircraft parts with partial serial numbers that matched those of the lost flight.

Cite?

Because fwiw the wiki page disagrees

"Records showed training accidents between 1942 and 1945 accounted for the loss of 95 aviation personnel from NAS Fort Lauderdale"

Wow, was flight training just bad in those days, or was the TBM particularly difficult to handle? That seems like a lot of accidents for non-combat flights.


Good question. Maybe open water before gps and weather satellites was  wasn't too safe, dunno. Sounds like these planes were nearly impossible to ditch safely
 
2021-12-06 1:09:15 PM  

Arkanaut: Pats_Cloth_Coat: Gyrfalcon: Subsequent dives at that location found aircraft parts with partial serial numbers that matched those of the lost flight.

Cite?

Because fwiw the wiki page disagrees

"Records showed training accidents between 1942 and 1945 accounted for the loss of 95 aviation personnel from NAS Fort Lauderdale"

Wow, was flight training just bad in those days, or was the TBM particularly difficult to handle? That seems like a lot of accidents for non-combat flights.


A little of column A, a little of column B.

The aircraft was apparently difficult to fly, and training /instruments/equipment was not as good then as now.
 
2021-12-06 1:21:46 PM  

jackandwater: "Way down in Bermuda, down in the triangle."


ELVIS NEEDS BOATS PLANES!
 
2021-12-06 1:25:21 PM  
Here's what I wonder about -
So if it's just one lone pilot, yea maybe he/she becomes convinced of a compass malfunction. But if there are five planes, is it (reasonably) possible for all to have compass failures that are all acting the same ie we all show headed 90, lets roll to the left ... now we all show 45 ....
 
2021-12-06 1:59:38 PM  

Arkanaut: Pats_Cloth_Coat: Gyrfalcon: Subsequent dives at that location found aircraft parts with partial serial numbers that matched those of the lost flight.

Cite?

Because fwiw the wiki page disagrees

"Records showed training accidents between 1942 and 1945 accounted for the loss of 95 aviation personnel from NAS Fort Lauderdale"

Wow, was flight training just bad in those days, or was the TBM particularly difficult to handle? That seems like a lot of accidents for non-combat flights.


To launch a torpedo you had to fly really close to the water. Not exactly Blue Angel level precision flying, but these weren't Blue Angels either. WWII era vehicles were not exactly highly reliable. They could be fixed far easier than modern combat vehicles but.... I'm always a bit put off by the ducks used as tourism for the last 50-60 years. They were WWII transport vehicles. They had an expected service lifetime of what, seven years? And they had an acceptable loss ratio of 20%. So the military planned for twenty percent to simply fail catastrophically in the field lugging ammo to the advancing troops.

I don't know what the acceptable loss ratio was for Avengers, but there was a reason you had a wingman on every flight. It wasn't because of the off chance you ran into an enemy patrol, it was because planes broke down pretty frequently and if you had to ditch your wingman could tell them where upon his return (radio silence, don't forget) to send the flying boat to pick you up. Because that was not uncommon to happen for any aircraft back then. They were designed to have high performance, be built quickly by the hundreds, and pushed into service to zerg rush whomever we were fighting. That was the plan with everything we built. Liberty ships. Aircraft carriers. Tanks. Jeeps. Planes. Hell, our torpedoes had a nasty habit of circling back toward whomever fired them because the magnetic guidance systems were too sensitive and local differences in the Earth's magnetic field could throw them off. We lost one confirmed and at least one suspected submarine to this, the reason the other is unconfirmed is because the entire crew was killed, no survivors.  A big difference between everything else and planes is that a breakdown in a single engine plane means you are gonna hit the ground from a good distance up. A big difference between civilian planes and military planes is that civilian aircraft are built to want to stay up, while a military aircraft wants to crash even when it's flying.

After the war was over, they couldn't hide the training accidents among the combat casualty counts. It was acceptable during WWII but after that we've become more demanding over time. Probably that plays a bit into the ballooning development time of new planes. They also do a lot of training with simulators and that just wasn't possible back then.
 
2021-12-06 2:04:32 PM  

McFarkus: Here's what I wonder about -
So if it's just one lone pilot, yea maybe he/she becomes convinced of a compass malfunction. But if there are five planes, is it (reasonably) possible for all to have compass failures that are all acting the same ie we all show headed 90, lets roll to the left ... now we all show 45 ....


Depends on how sensitive they are. I doubt they were using the same system that were on the torpedoes but if they crossed into an area with a different magnetic field strength that could happen.
 
2021-12-06 2:12:14 PM  

iheartscotch: TLDR: do not fly visually. Use your instruments. These days, they actually put lampshades on pilot trainees so they cannot look out the front.

/ seriously.

// The instructor is right next to them, unlampshaded.


I'm working towards my private license and my instructor puts a pair of glasses on me that limits my field of view to the instrument panel. She scans for traffic. You have to have a certain number of hours of simulated instrument time even for a VFR rating.

I think I fly better on instruments than VFR.
 
2021-12-06 3:36:36 PM  
Scientific data shows that things do not disappear there any more often than any other similarly trafficked area on earth.

That's what they WANT you to think!
 
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