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(Military Times)   What to do to counteract how American extremist groups target veterans to join their ranks? Make a list of prohibited groups like, you know, MAGA?   (militarytimes.com) divider line
    More: Unlikely, Extremism, United States Department of Defense, number of veterans, extremist groups, extremist crimes, sharp focus, better screen recruits, service members  
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2693 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Dec 2021 at 7:05 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-12-05 5:29:53 PM  
Plenty of us veterans separate without becoming flaming nutjobs. These folks need more than rules; they need mental health care.
 
2021-12-05 5:51:43 PM  
Interesting article. Thanks, Subby.

FTFA   "If the military veteran brand is sullied, who's going to join that all-volunteer military in the future? If servicemen and servicewomen and families put ideology, party first, it undermines the premise of civilian control of the military."

I'm glad to hear you're aware there's a problem, but the military has had a reputation as a welcoming safe place for white supremacists, xenophobes, misogynists, homophobes, and political extremists for decades. Your pattern and practice of doing little to nothing to change that reputation seems to invite people to join who are comfortable in that environment.
 
2021-12-05 6:13:17 PM  
Bring back the draft, male and female, and round out the ideology of the future Vetrans.
 
2021-12-05 6:18:55 PM  

edmo: Plenty of us veterans separate without becoming flaming nutjobs. These folks need more than rules; they need mental health care.


And relieved of their firearms
 
2021-12-05 6:45:30 PM  
There is a cult built around veterans in this country.

Good luck
 
2021-12-05 7:11:12 PM  
Russia is waging a psyops war (cue colonial cat cart to deny it) and the US is getting beaten soundly. Veterans are probably the easiest group to target. It's going to be very difficult to stop any time soon.
 
2021-12-05 7:11:44 PM  
I'm surprised that the same military that fought against desegregation in their ranks and cheerfully accepted that the GI Bill would apply only to whites is having trouble with white supremacy.
 
2021-12-05 7:12:18 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: Russia is waging a psyops war (cue colonial cat cart to deny it) and the US is getting beaten soundly. Veterans are probably the easiest group to target. It's going to be very difficult to stop any time soon.


It would help if the US had psyops of its own. Turns out they are white supremacists, too.
 
2021-12-05 7:14:36 PM  

vudukungfu: edmo: Plenty of us veterans separate without becoming flaming nutjobs. These folks need more than rules; they need mental health care.

And relieved of their firearms


And have their homes searched for "misplaced" ordnance.
 
2021-12-05 7:16:42 PM  
Instead of Proud Boys, let's create Proud Boy Scouts where MAGAS can get badges for stuff. Like, here's your 'murica badge for not wearing a mask and not being a dick to a flight attendant.
 
2021-12-05 7:16:48 PM  

vudukungfu: edmo: Plenty of us veterans separate without becoming flaming nutjobs. These folks need more than rules; they need mental health care.

And relieved of their firearms


And a word or two about the dangers of being bored and a target for assholes when going back home.
 
2021-12-05 7:17:44 PM  

Notabunny: Interesting article. Thanks, Subby.

FTFA   "If the military veteran brand is sullied, who's going to join that all-volunteer military in the future? If servicemen and servicewomen and families put ideology, party first, it undermines the premise of civilian control of the military."

I'm glad to hear you're aware there's a problem, but the military has had a reputation as a welcoming safe place for white supremacists, xenophobes, misogynists, homophobes, and political extremists for decades. Your pattern and practice of doing little to nothing to change that reputation seems to invite people to join who are comfortable in that environment.


It's also bullshiat. We get plenty of volunteers that simply want to serve their nation.

I do not want white supremacists and Nazis to feel comfortable in my military. I will continue to do everything I can to drive them out.
 
2021-12-05 7:17:52 PM  
Battle hardened veterans returning home to control street gangs or prison gangs has been going on since the 70s. This isn't a new problem and it isn't only a "white extremist" problem ... I guess now it's a problem now that it's affecting white people out of prison.

I'm not a warrior worshiper, but we really need to take better care of our veterans. I used to counsel vets and something as simple as talking to kids or any community involvement might keep them off the bottle the night before the talk. I've met my peers who've returned back as alcoholics or with no hair or no real social skills. They need something to do. They were poor with nothing when they joined and they come out with nightmares and debt and a cheating wife. It's a raw deal for some. For others, like my dad, it was the best thing ever and he made a lot of friends, learned a lot of things, and the army paid for his college. That's not the case for everyone, though. Vets need better support.
 
2021-12-05 7:19:06 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: Veterans are probably the easiest group to target.


Why do you think that is?
 
2021-12-05 7:19:30 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Peter von Nostrand: Russia is waging a psyops war (cue colonial cat cart to deny it) and the US is getting beaten soundly. Veterans are probably the easiest group to target. It's going to be very difficult to stop any time soon.

It would help if the US had psyops of its own. Turns out they are white supremacists, too.


It's probably more like my employers IT department. Just a bunch of old guys thinking it's still the 70's and haven't adapted to change and new technology.
 
2021-12-05 7:20:06 PM  

cretinbob: There is a cult built around veterans in this country.

Good luck


There really is, and we need to destroy it.
 
2021-12-05 7:21:33 PM  
Dead on the River:

Proud Boy Scouts

Needs to be an SNL skit.
 
2021-12-05 7:22:11 PM  
Wine Sipping Elitist:

Everyone needs more support.
 
2021-12-05 7:22:55 PM  

edmo: Plenty of us veterans separate without becoming flaming nutjobs. These folks need more than rules; they need mental health care.


The VA sucks shiate, because the things it needs to do costs money, and people (especially Republicans) don't think they're worth it.  The surface-level praise of Vets is just that. Surface level.
 
2021-12-05 7:24:10 PM  

Flying Vermin: Peter von Nostrand: Veterans are probably the easiest group to target.

Why do you think that is?


There's an over the top reverence built around them.

They're easier to play mind games with since they're broken down in boot camp and rebuilt around God and country.

Appealing to their patriotism can get them to do anything as long as they believe they're being patriotic.

They tend to have a sense of entitlement while feeling neglected and being bitter about what other groups are getting.

The list goes on. It's hard to narrow down one single factor.
 
2021-12-05 7:25:56 PM  

edmo: Plenty of us veterans separate without becoming flaming nutjobs. These folks need more than rules; they need mental health care.


what if I told you there were plenty of sane white nationalists and conspiracy theorists spurred to action by rhetoric.

Hate isn't a mental illness. People like Steven Miller and Richard Spencer aren't mentally ill. They're just assholes.
 
2021-12-05 7:26:33 PM  
Prohibit anyone from joining the military until they've got a college degree.
 
2021-12-05 7:27:37 PM  

Weird Hal: Dead on the River:

Proud Boy Scouts

Needs to be an SNL skit.


With Alec Baldwin.
And the Kool Aid boy.
 
2021-12-05 7:30:59 PM  
Who cares what veterans do? They're retired. Once they've completed their service they can go be dumbass Republicans like any other civilian.

Let's focus on keeping active duty on the straight and narrow. Is there constitutionality around banning them from political speech and activity while they are in the military?
 
2021-12-05 7:32:12 PM  

Weird Hal: Dead on the River:

Proud Boy Scouts

Needs to be an SNL skit.


c.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2021-12-05 7:33:31 PM  

hardinparamedic: edmo: Plenty of us veterans separate without becoming flaming nutjobs. These folks need more than rules; they need mental health care.

what if I told you there were plenty of sane white nationalists and conspiracy theorists spurred to action by rhetoric.

Hate isn't a mental illness. People like Steven Miller and Richard Spencer aren't mentally ill. They're just assholes.


6atexasfootball.comView Full Size
 
2021-12-05 7:34:25 PM  
The First Amendment has been consistently interpreted as protection the right of people to associate with whomever they want.

If you want to retain that protection, best not belong to an organization that the Supreme Court has unfailingly allowed to curb the First Amendment protections of its members.
 
2021-12-05 7:34:47 PM  
If this is about the "Patriotic Front," everyone knows they are FBI.  They're not fooling anyone.
 
2021-12-05 7:35:10 PM  
Perhaps part of the problem is that we have an all-volunteer military so now a greater percentage of those who serve are also more inclined to be potential recruits for these extremist groups. I'm not advocating a return to the draft but wondering if this phenomenon is a reflection on the personality type of today's volunteer and that fact that they represent a greater proportion of the military than when there was a draft.
 
2021-12-05 7:36:20 PM  
This ad . . .
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2021-12-05 7:37:01 PM  
Yeah, banning predatory groups worked for the Bloods, Crips, Gangster Disciples, And any other gang that preys on vulnerable people to fill it's ranks.

That's the military's job dag gummit.
 
2021-12-05 7:41:26 PM  

runwiz: Perhaps part of the problem is that we have an all-volunteer military so now a greater percentage of those who serve are also more inclined to be potential recruits for these extremist groups. I'm not advocating a return to the draft but wondering if this phenomenon is a reflection on the personality type of today's volunteer and that fact that they represent a greater proportion of the military than when there was a draft.


No. It's guys who get out of the army and aren't properly assisted in acclimating to civilian life and fall down on hard times or needing to feel the comradery they shared with their unit, or need help in some other way to justify their prejudices.

It's a mental health issue.
 
2021-12-05 7:41:58 PM  
The best thing to do about it is to stop creating veterans, and stop treating the ones we already have as though they were just disposable pawns for the industrial military complex.
 
2021-12-05 7:43:18 PM  
I bet if we provided a far better VA medical, mental health, and assistance in civilian life reintegration, up to and including job retraining and placement in living wage jobs, vets would be less likely to want to overthrow the government. I understand we give them a lot, but we're also giving them the training and authority to kill other humans, and despite what some might tell you, that comes with a fark ton of baggage. We should be doing far more for them.

I do not have personal experience with this, but I know a couple vets who have struggled and the system has a way of letting them just slip through the cracks. The harder the problems, the easier they fall through.

They gave the prime of their lives to this country. The least we could do is give them a life to come back to.
 
2021-12-05 7:44:09 PM  

Unscratchable_Itch: hardinparamedic: edmo: Plenty of us veterans separate without becoming flaming nutjobs. These folks need more than rules; they need mental health care.

what if I told you there were plenty of sane white nationalists and conspiracy theorists spurred to action by rhetoric.

Hate isn't a mental illness. People like Steven Miller and Richard Spencer aren't mentally ill. They're just assholes.

[6atexasfootball.com image 406x250] [View Full Size image _x_]


because distilling their ideology down to mental illness further stigmatizes the mental illness community - people who are overwhelmingly not likey to be violent or dangerous to others - and gives people a convinent excuse to shirk responsibility for their rhetoric and ideologies.

Racism can cause mental illness in its victims and population, the perpetrators of bigotry by and large are adherents to hateful philosophies, not because of mental illness but because they're convinced of their own social and politics superiority.
 
2021-12-05 7:46:44 PM  

Night Train to Wakanda: runwiz: Perhaps part of the problem is that we have an all-volunteer military so now a greater percentage of those who serve are also more inclined to be potential recruits for these extremist groups. I'm not advocating a return to the draft but wondering if this phenomenon is a reflection on the personality type of today's volunteer and that fact that they represent a greater proportion of the military than when there was a draft.

No. It's guys who get out of the army and aren't properly assisted in acclimating to civilian life and fall down on hard times or needing to feel the comradery they shared with their unit, or need help in some other way to justify their prejudices.

It's a mental health issue.


a good deal of the most vocal white nationalist militia types never actually finished their term of service. They were discharged for discipline problems or given general discharges.
 
2021-12-05 7:47:55 PM  

Wine Sipping Elitist: Battle hardened veterans returning home to control street gangs or prison gangs has been going on since the 70s. This isn't a new problem and it isn't only a "white extremist" problem ... I guess now it's a problem now that it's affecting white people out of prison.


I get dubbed a pog because I went to leonard wood to blow shiat up. I never had a deployment to a war zone due to the troop scheduling. Only way I could do that was to swap to end but at that time it was ordinance officer school required iirc.  So I never talk about military experience because "grunts" will pull rank.

The vast majority of troops aren't Combat troops. They may have training, but never fired a round in anger.

Then look at the style of battle. Since ww2 the us "cheats" per their opponents. They outclassed, puttrain, outequip, and always have support coming for them. Except for instances where spec ops believes their own superman bullshiat narrative (mark Luttrell mission, Robert's ridge) the us infantry isn't some force to behold. The troops in Niger got shwacked hard because the Intel failure and unsupported

Mogadishu wouldve been a bloodbath without SOAR going relaxed with roe and running nonstop amphetamine induced CAS.

Spec ops in Iraq ran COIN which turned them into swat teams on roids and meth with a looser roe.

The usaf and usn/usmc air divisions haven't faced danger since training.

So this battle hardened narrative, take with a grain of salt unless they were humping a dshk while wearing sandals in the mountains.
 
2021-12-05 7:53:46 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: Russia is waging a psyops war (cue colonial cat cart to deny it) and the US is getting beaten soundly. Veterans are probably the easiest group to target. It's going to be very difficult to stop any time soon.


Or take a page from Cathy's buddies and put Politruks in units, on posts, etc.  Chaptering out, prison or execution for paramilitary/Bonapartist types found in the service.

But playing pussy when the traitors play tough will be a losing game.
 
2021-12-05 7:54:54 PM  

cretinbob: There is a cult built around veterans in this country.

Good luck


That also needs to come to an end. But it won't until we stop sending kids off to die in foreign countries and pretend their deaths were for a good cause.
 
2021-12-05 7:55:02 PM  
Take another Thorazine pill and STFU, Walter Sobchak.
 
2021-12-05 8:02:32 PM  

fragMasterFlash: Take another Thorazine pill and STFU, Walter Sobchak.


best i can do is two 800mg tylenol, and a canteen of water.
 
2021-12-05 8:05:13 PM  

Ihascandy: fragMasterFlash: Take another Thorazine pill and STFU, Walter Sobchak.

best i can do is two 800mg tylenol, and a canteen of water.


change your socks too.
 
2021-12-05 8:06:51 PM  
There is a lack of community and sense of purpose everywhere in our society fueling an epidemic of depression and anger, and it's doing more to us besides stoking extremism.  I don't know how to fix that, and I don't know if a solution can be found in government.
 
2021-12-05 8:08:24 PM  
The Canadian armed forces have been rooting out white supremacists/extremists in their ranks since that Winnipeg reserve dude got busted for being actively part of The Base... and the other ding dong who rammed his truck through the gate at the PM's residence fully armed.

They also seem to be having to deal with a long standing rape problem.

Blindly supporting military freaks no matter WHAT is a very bad idea.

That's how war criminals get pardoned by sh*theads like Trump.
 
2021-12-05 8:11:17 PM  
The military has so many extremist because most of the military is recruited from conservative republican areas. The problem isn't the military radicalizing people, they were teetering on the edge already like nearly every other republican in the country.

That being said, while certainly not for everyone, a career in the military is a great idea for anyone that wants a good paying job and doesn't want some boring white collar work. Even if it's only 4 years it'll set you up well for whatever you want to do next.
 
2021-12-05 8:14:12 PM  
I come from a heritage of honorable military service. Vietnam combat veteran myself. We all served for America and our way of life. Not a shythead in the bunch.
 
2021-12-05 8:14:16 PM  
What we need is rural broadband so people out in redneckistan can log into facebook and youtube for conspiracy theories instead of watching them on fox news at the gas station
 
2021-12-05 8:15:55 PM  

on the road: If this is about the "Patriotic Front," everyone knows they are FBI.  They're not fooling anyone.


You misspelled FSB.
 
2021-12-05 8:17:15 PM  

another one of them: on the road: If this is about the "Patriotic Front," everyone knows they are FBI.  They're not fooling anyone.

You misspelled FSB.


There is a Flowers Sent Briskly van outside now that you mention it.
 
2021-12-05 8:20:01 PM  
Designate the GOP as a terrorist organization.
 
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