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(AutoBlog)   Then: manual transmissions as theft deterrents. Now: newfangled automatic transmission shifters as theft deterrents   (autoblog.com) divider line
    More: Facepalm, Manual transmission, Tesla Motors, Audi, electronic shifter, Automatic transmission, cool monostable shifter, lot of electronic shifter, Land Rover  
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1550 clicks; posted to STEM » on 05 Dec 2021 at 5:05 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-12-05 1:57:17 PM  
Pushbutton transmission shifters?  I guess everything old is new again...

i.etsystatic.comView Full Size
 
2021-12-05 1:58:22 PM  
It was the weird Mercedes gear shift that killed the kid from ST, Anton Yelchin.
 
2021-12-05 4:23:58 PM  

Lambskincoat: It was the weird Mercedes gear shift that killed the kid from ST, Anton Yelchin.


IIRC that was a ZF box and shifter, made by gearbox maker ZF.

The design had a feature where the electronic parking brake would apply automatically when you opened the drivers door.

Jeep chose not to use that feature....
 
2021-12-05 4:53:47 PM  
The column mounts make the most sense.

They started putting them on the center console because that's the best place to mount the shifter for a manual.  If you just stick the slush box selector there, you save money on moldings and linkages.

Now, the transmissions are usually not in the center hump... and manuals are all but extinct, yet they keep putting them there.  Even for cars with manually selectable gears, that's usually done with paddles these days.

The console space is useful for cup holders, storage compartments, and nowadays, charging pads for portable electronics,  just stick the trans lever back in the column, there's no reason to have them cluttering up the console.

And yes, I prefer the tactile response of a real lever with detents that are slightly different as you go down the modes.  Shifting from P to R to D, d to R, D to N should all feel a bit different. The best is a column lever where you pull it toward you and down to get out of park, and you can go down without pulling but not back up out of N, and can easily count the clunks as it moves between them.
 
2021-12-05 5:19:21 PM  
My dad had a "fishing van" that he used for...fishing. It was a POS. I mean, bad. One night as teens we wanted to take it and joyride. We couldn't because none of us could drive a 3 on the tree. We were only 13 and 14.
 
2021-12-05 5:22:55 PM  

Izunbacol: The column mounts make the most sense.

They started putting them on the center console because that's the best place to mount the shifter for a manual.  If you just stick the slush box selector there, you save money on moldings and linkages.

Now, the transmissions are usually not in the center hump... and manuals are all but extinct, yet they keep putting them there.  Even for cars with manually selectable gears, that's usually done with paddles these days.

The console space is useful for cup holders, storage compartments, and nowadays, charging pads for portable electronics,  just stick the trans lever back in the column, there's no reason to have them cluttering up the console.

And yes, I prefer the tactile response of a real lever with detents that are slightly different as you go down the modes.  Shifting from P to R to D, d to R, D to N should all feel a bit different. The best is a column lever where you pull it toward you and down to get out of park, and you can go down without pulling but not back up out of N, and can easily count the clunks as it moves between them.


Paddle shifters are the best option. They're more flexible and dynamic while allowing full access to a variety of options while preventing dumb mistakes like engaging reverse while aiming for neutral.
 
2021-12-05 5:38:56 PM  
The best theft deterrent is to remove the wheels and prop up the car on bricks.  I've left cars like that for years right on my front lawn without them being stolen.
 
2021-12-05 5:56:15 PM  

unixpro: Pushbutton transmission shifters?  I guess everything old is new again...

[i.etsystatic.com image 794x635]


I was driving a DB9 for a while and it had these, but more widely and less intuitively spaced.

Absolute balls, you can't feel to change and have to look every farking time.

autocar.co.nzView Full Size
 
2021-12-05 6:03:49 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

I like one in my Honda Insight.
 
2021-12-05 6:25:20 PM  

Lambskincoat: It was the weird Mercedes gear shift that killed the kid from ST, Anton Yelchin.


No, it was the shiatty Chrysler implementation of the Mercedes shifter.

Mercedes already had "auto park" implemented in their vehicles (open door while in gear, vehicle shifts to part).  Chrysler had to issue a reflash recall to add the feature....no parts, software update only (ECM, TCM, IPC and RFHUB on some).
 
2021-12-05 6:25:40 PM  
Four on the floor?
Three on the tree?

I've got twos in my shoes.
 
2021-12-05 6:52:10 PM  

Izunbacol: They started putting them on the center console because that's the best place to mount the shifter for a manual.  If you just stick the slush box selector there, you save money on moldings and linkages.


Not quite.

Supplemental restraint requirements (airbags) have to function for all passengers who might not be wearing a seatbelt. The bench seat largely disappeared because manufacturers had to design a passenger airbag to inflate across the whole of the front dashboard just in case you had a center passenger who wasn't buckled up.

It was easier to just eliminate most bench seats to have a cheaper airbag design that only had to accommodate a passenger. Well, the easiest way to design a car without a bench seat is put a center console and a center shifter in there.
 
2021-12-05 6:54:17 PM  

ethernet76: preventing dumb mistakes like engaging reverse while aiming for neutral


Electronically controlled transmissions won't even do that. You can be going 70 on the interstate and try to shift into R, and it will just beep at you.
 
2021-12-05 6:55:45 PM  

scanman61: No, it was the shiatty Chrysler implementation of the Mercedes shifter.

Mercedes already had "auto park" implemented in their vehicles (open door while in gear, vehicle shifts to part).  Chrysler had to issue a reflash recall to add the feature....no parts, software update only (ECM, TCM, IPC and RFHUB on some).


User error killed Anton.

I don't want a transmission doing something I'm not telling it to do. If I have the car in gear (forward or reverse) and I open the door, it's because I have a specific reason I want to move the car while the door is open. Don't give me a farking car that farking shifts when I don't farking tell it to do so.

/6-speed manual on my car
 
2021-12-05 6:59:23 PM  

Combustion: My dad had a "fishing van" that he used for...fishing. It was a POS. I mean, bad. One night as teens we wanted to take it and joyride. We couldn't because none of us could drive a 3 on the tree. We were only 13 and 14.


That's what I learned on - 1963 Ford Falcon. POS, but one of the few vehicles of the era that could fit eight comfortably.

Latest from Tesla: the car "guesses which way you want to go ...  Way more annoying than telepathy.

/Long on TSLA
//Do not own a Tesla
 
2021-12-05 7:01:19 PM  
I went from 6 speed manual to CVT with paddle shifters. I've not ever paddle shifted, and the CVT is smart enough to "downshift" when I would.

I kinda miss the stick, but not enough to go back.
 
2021-12-05 7:12:03 PM  
I remember the first time I drove a Mercedes SUV with the weird column shift where you have to push for park.  It's not immediately apparent, but you can figure it out if you look at it for a couple seconds.
 
2021-12-05 7:17:24 PM  

Izunbacol: The column mounts make the most sense.

They started putting them on the center console because that's the best place to mount the shifter for a manual.  If you just stick the slush box selector there, you save money on moldings and linkages.

Now, the transmissions are usually not in the center hump... and manuals are all but extinct, yet they keep putting them there.  Even for cars with manually selectable gears, that's usually done with paddles these days.

The console space is useful for cup holders, storage compartments, and nowadays, charging pads for portable electronics,  just stick the trans lever back in the column, there's no reason to have them cluttering up the console.

And yes, I prefer the tactile response of a real lever with detents that are slightly different as you go down the modes.  Shifting from P to R to D, d to R, D to N should all feel a bit different. The best is a column lever where you pull it toward you and down to get out of park, and you can go down without pulling but not back up out of N, and can easily count the clunks as it moves between them.


Fark user imageView Full Size


Pruis-C.

"B" is apparently for "Battery". A downshift while slowing down for battery charging or so i've been told. They do feel different. Taught 3 kids to drive in that car. I made them put their foot on the break, close their eyes, and told them to shift into randomly gears to learn the feel of where it is. All 3 has a habbit of looking down at it when shifting P, R, or D.

/i also made them try to rev the engine in neutral as a joke. Car goes 'BEEEEEP' and the engine doesn't rev.
 
2021-12-05 7:18:38 PM  
Do we even need N anymore?
 
2021-12-05 7:23:37 PM  
 
2021-12-05 7:25:33 PM  

Petey4335: Pruis-C.

"B" is apparently for "Battery". A downshift while slowing down for battery charging or so i've been told. They do feel different. Taught 3 kids to drive in that car. I made them put their foot on the break, close their eyes, and told them to shift into randomly gears to learn the feel of where it is. All 3 has a habbit of looking down at it when shifting P, R, or D.


They may have their own thing and called it battery but usually B starts for "brake", as in it's a stronger regenerative braking mode.

On Jap EVs and hybrids

D = minimum regen, maximum power
B = maximum regen, maximum power
Eco (if it exists) = maximum regen, minimum power

So on maximum regen modes you can one-foot drive unless you have to come to a complete stop.
 
2021-12-05 7:30:44 PM  
I'll stick with my manuals thank you.
 
2021-12-05 7:37:25 PM  
oh. It is getting weirder. Mitsubishi is trying to get me to buy a new Outlander. Now that everyone is building a car that looks like an Outlander, they are changing the look, so, round and round it goes.

But they have this DIAL, with tarmac/asphalt, gravel, mud, and snow on it. Apparently, the transmission drives each wheel separately, so the different settings are used for safety on each driving medium. Absolutely nuts. Kind of think it is overkill, but what do I know?

Plus you can choose 2WD and 4WD. PLUS you can choose EV mode, GAS + EV mode, or GAS only mode? Or somesuch? It has all got pretty well out of hand.

We are in the era of feature-packing. This happened with bloatware OS on computers, phones, and now cars. Eventually, our brains will be packed with a hundred interfaces to deal with. Cynical companies will induce brand loyalty by making interfaces so complicated that people will settle on one and be unable to handle any other.

/ tldr. It is getting worse. It will get worse.
 
2021-12-05 7:40:38 PM  
I like my 5 speed....

Now my dad's Willys is the real mind fark. 24 volt system with a choke and throttle, kill switch behind the glove box?

Like I doubt anyone my age could steal the damn thing. Let alone not shiat themselves when it hits 40 mph.

Power brakes? Power steering? Willys doesn't care that little solid steel battering ram is just gonna go once it's started.
 
2021-12-05 7:50:03 PM  

dyhchong: Petey4335: Pruis-C.

"B" is apparently for "Battery". A downshift while slowing down for battery charging or so i've been told. They do feel different. Taught 3 kids to drive in that car. I made them put their foot on the break, close their eyes, and told them to shift into randomly gears to learn the feel of where it is. All 3 has a habbit of looking down at it when shifting P, R, or D.

They may have their own thing and called it battery but usually B starts for "brake", as in it's a stronger regenerative braking mode.

On Jap EVs and hybrids

D = minimum regen, maximum power
B = maximum regen, maximum power
Eco (if it exists) = maximum regen, minimum power

So on maximum regen modes you can one-foot drive unless you have to come to a complete stop.


Uh you always one foot drive. If you are using your left foot for brake that's a very bad habit :X
 
2021-12-05 7:51:51 PM  

dyhchong: Petey4335: Pruis-C.

"B" is apparently for "Battery". A downshift while slowing down for battery charging or so i've been told. They do feel different. Taught 3 kids to drive in that car. I made them put their foot on the break, close their eyes, and told them to shift into randomly gears to learn the feel of where it is. All 3 has a habbit of looking down at it when shifting P, R, or D.

They may have their own thing and called it battery but usually B starts for "brake", as in it's a stronger regenerative braking mode.

On Jap EVs and hybrids

D = minimum regen, maximum power
B = maximum regen, maximum power
Eco (if it exists) = maximum regen, minimum power

So on maximum regen modes you can one-foot drive unless you have to come to a complete stop.


Yes. And I apparently didn't explain that one further... because I use it all the time.
 
2021-12-05 7:53:10 PM  

natazha: Combustion: My dad had a "fishing van" that he used for...fishing. It was a POS. I mean, bad. One night as teens we wanted to take it and joyride. We couldn't because none of us could drive a 3 on the tree. We were only 13 and 14.

That's what I learned on - 1963 Ford Falcon. POS, but one of the few vehicles of the era that could fit eight comfortably.


'72 Maverick with 3 on the tree and the I6 200.

That car sucked.
 
2021-12-05 8:04:14 PM  

natazha: Combustion: My dad had a "fishing van" that he used for...fishing. It was a POS. I mean, bad. One night as teens we wanted to take it and joyride. We couldn't because none of us could drive a 3 on the tree. We were only 13 and 14.

That's what I learned on - 1963 Ford Falcon. POS, but one of the few vehicles of the era that could fit eight comfortably.

Latest from Tesla: the car "guesses which way you want to go ...  Way more annoying than telepathy.

/Long on TSLA
//Do not own a Tesla


Funny... the early 60's Falcon is ever so slightly smaller than a new Civic
 
2021-12-05 8:09:14 PM  

mrmopar5287: scanman61: No, it was the shiatty Chrysler implementation of the Mercedes shifter.

Mercedes already had "auto park" implemented in their vehicles (open door while in gear, vehicle shifts to part).  Chrysler had to issue a reflash recall to add the feature....no parts, software update only (ECM, TCM, IPC and RFHUB on some).

User error killed Anton.

I don't want a transmission doing something I'm not telling it to do. If I have the car in gear (forward or reverse) and I open the door, it's because I have a specific reason I want to move the car while the door is open. Don't give me a farking car that farking shifts when I don't farking tell it to do so.

/6-speed manual on my car


I have several times high-sided a car on the pile of snow that the plow left across the intersection, and needed to have the door open when rocking from R to D, while giving it a little help with the left leg. I don't want the transmission trying to outsmart me. Just do what I tell it to do, when I tell it to do it.
 
2021-12-05 8:29:10 PM  
When I last went for an inspection sticker the kid working inspections couldn't start my 6-speed Chevy Cruze. Asked me if it ran. I said yes I drive it to the shop. Had to ask his boss help, boss laughed at him and then pulled the car into the bay after pointing out the third pedal.
 
2021-12-05 9:27:32 PM  
The best manual transmission on the planet.https://www.eaton.com/content/d​am/eaton/products/transmissions/vehicl​e-transmissions/rt-13/eaton-fuller-tra​nsmission-rt-13-rt-18-en-us.jpg
 
2021-12-05 9:28:51 PM  

Juxtobear: The best manual transmission on the planet.


eaton.comView Full Size
 
2021-12-05 9:44:20 PM  

Zeroth Law: Uh you always one foot drive. If you are using your left foot for brake that's a very bad habit :X


Ehhh one-pedal* drive. I did 70 hours at work last week and still working today.
 
2021-12-05 10:07:08 PM  
Had many cars over the years, far as the automatics go I really liked the grip of the shifter on my late 90's grand prix. i remember it being exceptionally ergonomic.

Current car is a new brand new acura tlx, which is the first car I ever owned that didn't have either a column or shifter in the middle.  The buttons are not even remotely confusing.  The only remotely confusing thing is how you need to put it in "car wash mode" if going for a wash, which involves shifting to park, then holding the neutral for 2 seconds. Which is kind of annoying, but it does auto-retract the side view mirrors and shuts off the auto-windshield wipers if you have them enabled.
 
2021-12-05 10:19:09 PM  
Speaking anecdotally, the T56 is garbage.

/hot take
 
2021-12-05 10:20:05 PM  

Zeroth Law: Uh you always one foot drive. If you are using your left foot for brake that's a very bad habit :X


When I was still turning wrenchs, the first thing I'd check for on an "wears out pads too quick" complaint is wear on the left side of the brake pedal.

Two foot drivers tend to rest their left foot on the pedal and they just eat up pads.
 
2021-12-05 10:30:31 PM  

scanman61: Two foot drivers tend to rest their left foot on the pedal and they just eat up pads.


Some of them know what they're doing.

Fark user imageView Full Size


/Though their brake pads do only last a couple of hundred miles...
 
2021-12-05 10:38:22 PM  

monsatano: Speaking anecdotally, the T56 is garbage.

/hot take


To be fair though, it's got nothing on the Mitsubishi transmissions they put in the first gen turbo talons/eclipses/lasers. 1-2 shift felt like a dog box after ~80k miles
 
2021-12-05 10:42:09 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: scanman61: Two foot drivers tend to rest their left foot on the pedal and they just eat up pads.

Some of them know what they're doing.

[Fark user image image 850x565]

/Though their brake pads do only last a couple of hundred miles...


I seriously doubt he'd be showing up where I worked for a brake job.
 
2021-12-05 10:45:45 PM  

scanman61: Carter Pewterschmidt: scanman61: Two foot drivers tend to rest their left foot on the pedal and they just eat up pads.

Some of them know what they're doing.

[Fark user image image 850x565]

/Though their brake pads do only last a couple of hundred miles...

I seriously doubt he'd be showing up where I worked for a brake job.


How many customers do you get where the pads are on fire?
 
2021-12-05 11:40:09 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: scanman61: Carter Pewterschmidt: scanman61: Two foot drivers tend to rest their left foot on the pedal and they just eat up pads.

Some of them know what they're doing.

[Fark user image image 850x565]

/Though their brake pads do only last a couple of hundred miles...

I seriously doubt he'd be showing up where I worked for a brake job.

How many customers do you get where the pads are on fire?


The folks at the bottom of this hill see a few.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-12-06 12:28:20 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: scanman61: Carter Pewterschmidt: scanman61: Two foot drivers tend to rest their left foot on the pedal and they just eat up pads.

Some of them know what they're doing.

[Fark user image image 850x565]

/Though their brake pads do only last a couple of hundred miles...

I seriously doubt he'd be showing up where I worked for a brake job.

How many customers do you get where the pads are on fire?


Well, I've never seen pads on fire but I've seen overheated rotors change to a really interesting shade of iridescent blue       ;-)
 
2021-12-06 12:31:12 AM  

mrmopar5287: Izunbacol: They started putting them on the center console because that's the best place to mount the shifter for a manual.  If you just stick the slush box selector there, you save money on moldings and linkages.

Not quite.

Supplemental restraint requirements (airbags) have to function for all passengers who might not be wearing a seatbelt. The bench seat largely disappeared because manufacturers had to design a passenger airbag to inflate across the whole of the front dashboard just in case you had a center passenger who wasn't buckled up.

It was easier to just eliminate most bench seats to have a cheaper airbag design that only had to accommodate a passenger. Well, the easiest way to design a car without a bench seat is put a center console and a center shifter in there.


It was a combination of airbags and also, well, people just didn't want bench seats up front anymore.
https://jalopnik.com/why-front-bench-​s​eats-went-away-1776706852
 
2021-12-06 12:32:40 AM  

Zeroth Law: dyhchong: Petey4335: Pruis-C.

"B" is apparently for "Battery". A downshift while slowing down for battery charging or so i've been told. They do feel different. Taught 3 kids to drive in that car. I made them put their foot on the break, close their eyes, and told them to shift into randomly gears to learn the feel of where it is. All 3 has a habbit of looking down at it when shifting P, R, or D.

They may have their own thing and called it battery but usually B starts for "brake", as in it's a stronger regenerative braking mode.

On Jap EVs and hybrids

D = minimum regen, maximum power
B = maximum regen, maximum power
Eco (if it exists) = maximum regen, minimum power

So on maximum regen modes you can one-foot drive unless you have to come to a complete stop.

Uh you always one foot drive. If you are using your left foot for brake that's a very bad habit :X


My intuition is telling me you suck at motorcycles
 
2021-12-06 12:57:59 AM  
As I get in and out of every kind of different vehicle every day, this crap is so annoying. And it's not even consistent in a given brand or model year. And don't get me started on push button start placement. I'm not totally opposed to some new tech, but these jokers are all throwing snotrags at the wall seeing which will stick. And 90% of them are garbage and annoying to use.
 
2021-12-06 6:10:23 AM  

mochunk: As I get in and out of every kind of different vehicle every day, this crap is so annoying. And it's not even consistent in a given brand or model year. And don't get me started on push button start placement. I'm not totally opposed to some new tech, but these jokers are all throwing snotrags at the wall seeing which will stick. And 90% of them are garbage and annoying to use.


Ya got that right.

I utterly loathe this POS:

Fark user imageView Full Size


Membrane "buttons" in sharp-edged recesses. Go for a poke-"shift" and risk breaking a nail. The least risky action is with the thumb held horizontally. So natural, much ergonomics. Gimme the T-handle, thankyouverymuch.
 
2021-12-06 7:06:35 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: scanman61: Two foot drivers tend to rest their left foot on the pedal and they just eat up pads.

Some of them know what they're doing.

[Fark user image image 850x565]

/Though their brake pads do only last a couple of hundred miles...


Nobody who invites Bieber to Monaco knows what they are doing
 
2021-12-06 8:24:49 AM  
I had a Sonata with autostick. Left and right to change gears or it would shift for you. Say whatever you want about the engines but that was the most intuitive and effective transmission I've ever used. Wish they could all be that way.
 
2021-12-06 9:19:12 AM  

pdieten: Left and right to change gears...the most intuitive and effective transmission


FALSE.

To change gears in an autostick, putting the shifter into a gate to the side were forward/backward changes gears is the most intuitive. But then the argument starts about whether forward should shift to a higher gear or a lower gear.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2021-12-06 10:56:34 AM  

Petey4335: Pruis-C.

"B" is apparently for "Battery".


Supposed to be for descending hills where you want engine braking or a substitute.  Before Prius was a thing, I remember a friend's girlfriend telling me her brakes were smoking driving down a mountain.  She didn't know what those extra settings on her automatic transmission were for.
 
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