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(North Bay Business Journal)   A Black couple in the San Francisco Bay Area "whitewashed" their home to seem that white people lived there instead. You won't -- or will -- believe what happened next. The appraised value jumped $500,000   (northbaybusinessjournal.com) divider line
    More: Murica, Marin County, California, San Francisco Bay Area, San Francisco Bay, Real estate, San Francisco, Tamalpais High School, Marin City, California, wife Tenisha Tate-Austin  
•       •       •

3046 clicks; posted to Business » on 04 Dec 2021 at 5:38 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-12-04 1:33:36 PM  
This sounds like the premise of a bad '70s or '80s sitcom.
 
2021-12-04 1:43:22 PM  

bostonguy: This sounds like the premise of a bad '70s or '80s sitcom.


That sounds like the premise of living anywhere in America since 1619.
 
2021-12-04 1:44:12 PM  

phalamir: bostonguy: This sounds like the premise of a bad '70s or '80s sitcom.

That sounds like the premise of living anywhere in America since 1619.


Fair point!
 
2021-12-04 1:50:16 PM  
Mill Valley and Marin County are their own worlds where this most definitely would happen still in today's Bay Area that is not San Francisco proper.

Good background material can be found here.
 
2021-12-04 1:58:10 PM  
It has that new "white people" smell.  I'll give you a million and a half.

Oops, I just spotted a rap poster.  Make that a million.
 
2021-12-04 2:01:56 PM  

PaulRB: It has that new "white people" smell.  I'll give you a million and a half.

Oops, I just spotted a rap poster.  Make that a million.


Curveball: The rapper is Vanilla Ice.
 
2021-12-04 2:07:51 PM  

bostonguy: PaulRB: It has that new "white people" smell.  I'll give you a million and a half.

Oops, I just spotted a rap poster.  Make that a million.

Curveball: The rapper is Vanilla Ice.


You have to give me a million for having been exposed to that.
 
2021-12-04 2:07:58 PM  

bostonguy: PaulRB: It has that new "white people" smell.  I'll give you a million and a half.

Oops, I just spotted a rap poster.  Make that a million.

Curveball: The rapper is Vanilla Ice.


Half a mil, and a snickers.
 
2021-12-04 2:08:18 PM  

phalamir: bostonguy: PaulRB: It has that new "white people" smell.  I'll give you a million and a half.

Oops, I just spotted a rap poster.  Make that a million.

Curveball: The rapper is Vanilla Ice.

You have to give me a million for having been exposed to that.


<shakes tiny fist>
 
2021-12-04 2:14:31 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: phalamir: bostonguy: PaulRB: It has that new "white people" smell.  I'll give you a million and a half.

Oops, I just spotted a rap poster.  Make that a million.

Curveball: The rapper is Vanilla Ice.

You have to give me a million for having been exposed to that.

<shakes tiny fist>


Now, you know what it's like when the fist is on the other arm.
 
2021-12-04 3:34:59 PM  
In what city does parking a donk car in your driveway increase your property value? Atlanta?
 
2021-12-04 3:45:41 PM  
From TFA:

By focusing the first appraisal only on the small number of homes sold in the immediate Marin City area, Howard-Gibbon said the appraiser "built an invisible barrier" around the home by comparing it only to other sale prices in a long-marginalized area - a result she called "recycled discrimination."

This is the crux of the argument here.

Should the appraisal have considered other communities in Marin county?

Option 1:  homes in that community are undervalued because other areas aren't being considered, and those areas aren't any better than Marin City. This means that someone can get a really good deal on Marin County real estate, and they should hop on it immediately.

Option 2:  homes in that community are worth less because everyone else who wants to live in Marin County views Marin City as the option of last resort.  This means that including homes from surround areas falsely inflates the valuations.

Marin County is a wealthy liberal enclave, composed either of people who are too dumb to realize a huge opportunity to purchase undervalued real estate, or who would rather pay substantially more money to not live near African-Americans.

Either way, they voted for Biden. He won 82.3% of the vote, compared to Trump at 15.8%.
 
2021-12-04 3:46:16 PM  

fragMasterFlash: In what city does parking a donk car in your driveway increase your property value? Atlanta?


Atlanta got into problems with that. The Area was near the 'gay district'...a street over from the Art Museum area.
People could park their cars on the street in front of the homes they bought........until.
The Church complained and bought a 'church parking only Sunday 10-9...from ebay and shoved that in the ground. And called the cops and had the home owners cars towed.
 
2021-12-04 3:46:58 PM  

phalamir: Benevolent Misanthrope: phalamir: bostonguy: PaulRB: It has that new "white people" smell.  I'll give you a million and a half.

Oops, I just spotted a rap poster.  Make that a million.

Curveball: The rapper is Vanilla Ice.

You have to give me a million for having been exposed to that.

<shakes tiny fist>

Now, you know what it's like when the fist is on the other arm.


Are we still talking about house appraisals?
 
2021-12-04 3:53:06 PM  

optikeye: fragMasterFlash: In what city does parking a donk car in your driveway increase your property value? Atlanta?

Atlanta got into problems with that. The Area was near the 'gay district'...a street over from the Art Museum area.
People could park their cars on the street in front of the homes they bought........until.
The Church complained and bought a 'church parking only Sunday 10-9...from ebay and shoved that in the ground. And called the cops and had the home owners cars towed.


I am generally against church-burnings, but every rule has an exception.
 
2021-12-04 3:53:34 PM  

BumpInTheNight: phalamir: Benevolent Misanthrope: phalamir: bostonguy: PaulRB: It has that new "white people" smell.  I'll give you a million and a half.

Oops, I just spotted a rap poster.  Make that a million.

Curveball: The rapper is Vanilla Ice.

You have to give me a million for having been exposed to that.

<shakes tiny fist>

Now, you know what it's like when the fist is on the other arm.

Are we still talking about house appraisals?


Cathouse appraisals
 
2021-12-04 4:03:59 PM  

gar1013: Option 1:  homes in that community are undervalued because other areas aren't being considered, and those areas aren't any better than Marin City. This means that someone can get a really good deal on Marin County real estate, and they should hop on it immediately.

Option 2:  homes in that community are worth less because everyone else who wants to live in Marin County views Marin City as the option of last resort.  This means that including homes from surround areas falsely inflates the valuations.


I think it would come down to whether homes in that area are selling for less, rather than just appraising for less. There are areas where the official location makes a big difference in price, and the US saw that years ago when phone companies changed area codes and lots of people complained that they now had a "cheaper" and less desirable area code.

But if an appraiser can happily value a home for 50% more then there clearly is a problem. Five percent, maybe even ten, and you could argue that different appraisers will have different opinions. And extra 50%? That's not going to fly.
 
2021-12-04 4:09:31 PM  

optikeye: fragMasterFlash: In what city does parking a donk car in your driveway increase your property value? Atlanta?

Atlanta got into problems with that. The Area was near the 'gay district'...a street over from the Art Museum area.
People could park their cars on the street in front of the homes they bought........until.
The Church complained and bought a 'church parking only Sunday 10-9...from ebay and shoved that in the ground. And called the cops and had the home owners cars towed.


WTF were the home owner's susposed to do. They (The Church) just decided....they owned the street and needed the extra parking and had home owner's cars towed. That where not on CHRUCH property. And had parking authority on their side "well it's posted for church parking only...on a public street..with a sign the church bought"

Heck if the Church was worried about congregation members parking.
There's a MARTA station only a block away they could use for 2 hours on sunday.
But that would be testing their faith.
 
2021-12-04 4:37:12 PM  
Let me guess....they put up one of these signs:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-12-04 4:44:41 PM  
Happens ALL THE FRAKING TIME.

Example 1.

Example 2.
 
2021-12-04 5:42:27 PM  
Amazingly, the same thing happens to white trash red necks around here. You'd be amazed at how a veritable junk yard of cars rusting in the yard can have a downward effect on home values.
 
2021-12-04 5:42:51 PM  

bostonguy: PaulRB: It has that new "white people" smell.  I'll give you a million and a half.

Oops, I just spotted a rap poster.  Make that a million.

Curveball: The rapper is Vanilla Ice.


Changeup: The rapper is Snow.
 
2021-12-04 5:48:45 PM  

mrmopar5287: bostonguy: PaulRB: It has that new "white people" smell.  I'll give you a million and a half.

Oops, I just spotted a rap poster.  Make that a million.

Curveball: The rapper is Vanilla Ice.

Changeup: The rapper is Snow.


Slider: The rapper is Eminem
 
2021-12-04 5:53:02 PM  

Somacandra: Happens ALL THE FRAKING TIME.

Example 1.

Example 2.


Almost as though there were some sort of systemic racism going on.
 
2021-12-04 6:05:18 PM  

Target Builder: Somacandra: Happens ALL THE FRAKING TIME.

Example 1.

Example 2.

Almost as though there were some sort of systemic racism going on.


YOU CAN'T TEACH THAT TO CHILDREN!
 
2021-12-04 6:12:26 PM  
Marin City is not San Francisco subby

Guess you gotta do something to get attention and saying something bad happened in SAN FRANCISCO is one way.
 
2021-12-04 6:13:59 PM  

bostonguy: phalamir: bostonguy: This sounds like the premise of a bad '70s or '80s sitcom.

That sounds like the premise of living anywhere in America since 1619.

Fair point!


Except most of America was completely off limits to Blacks for a large portion of that time.
 
2021-12-04 6:26:46 PM  
I've seen these types of stories before... and I'm not sure I get the point.  Appraised values mean nothing... except for the fact that that is what you pay property taxes on.

So congratulations on your much larger property tax bill?
 
2021-12-04 6:30:03 PM  

jake3988: I've seen these types of stories before... and I'm not sure I get the point.  Appraised values mean nothing... except for the fact that that is what you pay property taxes on.

So congratulations on your much larger property tax bill?


This. I'm assuming they are sending the new higher appraisal to the local taxing authority, and not skullfarking the schools, right? RIGHT?

Oh, no? Guess it's just more skullduggery from both sides then.
 
2021-12-04 6:30:31 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: mrmopar5287: bostonguy: PaulRB: It has that new "white people" smell.  I'll give you a million and a half.

Oops, I just spotted a rap poster.  Make that a million.

Curveball: The rapper is Vanilla Ice.

Changeup: The rapper is Snow.

Slider: The rapper is Eminem


Knuckleball - it's Mr. B

'Chap-Hop History' by Mr.B The Gentleman Rhymer
Youtube 6t28COxEp2k
 
2021-12-04 6:31:55 PM  

Brewster: bostonguy: phalamir: bostonguy: This sounds like the premise of a bad '70s or '80s sitcom.

That sounds like the premise of living anywhere in America since 1619.

Fair point!

Except most of America was completely off limits to Blacks for a large portion of that time.


Only Oregon made it unconstitutional to exist while black
 
2021-12-04 7:20:38 PM  
Marin County aint San Francisco.
 
2021-12-04 7:26:53 PM  
Could I enthic-up my home and try to get it reassessed tax purposes?

Is that a thing?
 
2021-12-04 7:37:24 PM  

thornhill: Marin County aint San Francisco.


Nobody says they are from Marin County when describing where they are from to anyone else other than a pedantic nerd. Suburban SF is still SF.
 
2021-12-04 7:37:56 PM  

Smackledorfer: Could I enthic-up my home and try to get it reassessed tax purposes?

Is that a thing?


Please report back. I could always use some ammo against the local school district always hitting me up for more money.
 
2021-12-04 7:44:58 PM  

jake3988: I've seen these types of stories before... and I'm not sure I get the point.  Appraised values mean nothing... except for the fact that that is what you pay property taxes on.

So congratulations on your much larger property tax bill?


This could not be more wrong.  Unless you're paying straight cash for a home, you have to get something called a "mortgage."  The lender is going to want to see the appraised value of the home and is only willing to lend you that amount between the down payment and the appraised value.  So if you want to buy a home for $1.5 million and the appraiser says it's only worth $1 million, that $500,000 difference is on you.  So in the vast majority of cases, either the seller has to lower the price or you go looking for a different house.  Hence why the homeowners/sellers are rightfully pissed.
 
2021-12-04 7:47:47 PM  

mrmopar5287: bostonguy: PaulRB: It has that new "white people" smell.  I'll give you a million and a half.

Oops, I just spotted a rap poster.  Make that a million.

Curveball: The rapper is Vanilla Ice.

Changeup: The rapper is Snow.


Now there's a hffgufdgh I haven't kudhjcsgh in a long time.
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-12-04 7:49:20 PM  

Dr. Nick Riviera: jake3988: I've seen these types of stories before... and I'm not sure I get the point.  Appraised values mean nothing... except for the fact that that is what you pay property taxes on.

So congratulations on your much larger property tax bill?

This could not be more wrong.  Unless you're paying straight cash for a home, you have to get something called a "mortgage."  The lender is going to want to see the appraised value of the home and is only willing to lend you that amount between the down payment and the appraised value.  So if you want to buy a home for $1.5 million and the appraiser says it's only worth $1 million, that $500,000 difference is on you.  So in the vast majority of cases, either the seller has to lower the price or you go looking for a different house.  Hence why the homeowners/sellers are rightfully pissed.


Then the house isn't worth as much as the seller thinks it is. Appraisals protect the buyer from overpaying (by protecting the bank from over lending), not the seller from over-collecting.

The seller just needs to find another idiotic person to overpay for their residence they think is worth more.
 
2021-12-04 7:57:50 PM  

Dr. Nick Riviera: jake3988: I've seen these types of stories before... and I'm not sure I get the point.  Appraised values mean nothing... except for the fact that that is what you pay property taxes on.

So congratulations on your much larger property tax bill?

This could not be more wrong.  Unless you're paying straight cash for a home, you have to get something called a "mortgage."  The lender is going to want to see the appraised value of the home and is only willing to lend you that amount between the down payment and the appraised value.  So if you want to buy a home for $1.5 million and the appraiser says it's only worth $1 million, that $500,000 difference is on you.  So in the vast majority of cases, either the seller has to lower the price or you go looking for a different house.  Hence why the homeowners/sellers are rightfully pissed.


Somehow, and I have no idea how this happens, but every time I've bought a house, the appraiser that my realtor or mortgage broker selected has delivered an appraisal that is exactly the sales price.  It's just incredible.
 
2021-12-04 8:00:14 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: Smackledorfer: Could I enthic-up my home and try to get it reassessed tax purposes?

Is that a thing?

Please report back. I could always use some ammo against the local school district always hitting me up for more money.


Clearly you've never stepped foot in Marin.
 
2021-12-04 8:03:46 PM  

jake3988: I've seen these types of stories before... and I'm not sure I get the point.  Appraised values mean nothing... except for the fact that that is what you pay property taxes on.

So congratulations on your much larger property tax bill?


If you're paying a PMI, an increase in value can up your equity and eliminate it.
 
2021-12-04 8:09:58 PM  

Somacandra: Happens ALL THE FRAKING TIME.

Example 1.

Example 2.


Happened in Jacksonville Florida last year or the year before as well. Seems we get one of these stories every quarter or so.
 
2021-12-04 8:20:43 PM  
I have saying that appraisers are morans for a while.  I didn't realize that some of them were racist morans.
 
2021-12-04 8:24:04 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: Dr. Nick Riviera: jake3988: I've seen these types of stories before... and I'm not sure I get the point.  Appraised values mean nothing... except for the fact that that is what you pay property taxes on.

So congratulations on your much larger property tax bill?

This could not be more wrong.  Unless you're paying straight cash for a home, you have to get something called a "mortgage."  The lender is going to want to see the appraised value of the home and is only willing to lend you that amount between the down payment and the appraised value.  So if you want to buy a home for $1.5 million and the appraiser says it's only worth $1 million, that $500,000 difference is on you.  So in the vast majority of cases, either the seller has to lower the price or you go looking for a different house.  Hence why the homeowners/sellers are rightfully pissed.

Then the house isn't worth as much as the seller thinks it is. Appraisals protect the buyer from overpaying (by protecting the bank from over lending), not the seller from over-collecting.

The seller just needs to find another idiotic person to overpay for their residence they think is worth more.


You know how I know you didn't read the article?
 
2021-12-04 8:24:41 PM  

NewWorldDan: Dr. Nick Riviera: jake3988: I've seen these types of stories before... and I'm not sure I get the point.  Appraised values mean nothing... except for the fact that that is what you pay property taxes on.

So congratulations on your much larger property tax bill?

This could not be more wrong.  Unless you're paying straight cash for a home, you have to get something called a "mortgage."  The lender is going to want to see the appraised value of the home and is only willing to lend you that amount between the down payment and the appraised value.  So if you want to buy a home for $1.5 million and the appraiser says it's only worth $1 million, that $500,000 difference is on you.  So in the vast majority of cases, either the seller has to lower the price or you go looking for a different house.  Hence why the homeowners/sellers are rightfully pissed.

Somehow, and I have no idea how this happens, but every time I've bought a house, the appraiser that my realtor or mortgage broker selected has delivered an appraisal that is exactly the sales price.  It's just incredible.


You sound white.
 
2021-12-04 8:30:48 PM  

phalamir: Benevolent Misanthrope: phalamir: bostonguy: PaulRB: It has that new "white people" smell.  I'll give you a million and a half.

Oops, I just spotted a rap poster.  Make that a million.

Curveball: The rapper is Vanilla Ice.

You have to give me a million for having been exposed to that.

<shakes tiny fist>

Now, you know what it's like when the fist is on the other arm.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-12-04 8:34:10 PM  

Dr. Nick Riviera: 137 Is An Excellent Time: Dr. Nick Riviera: jake3988: I've seen these types of stories before... and I'm not sure I get the point.  Appraised values mean nothing... except for the fact that that is what you pay property taxes on.

So congratulations on your much larger property tax bill?

This could not be more wrong.  Unless you're paying straight cash for a home, you have to get something called a "mortgage."  The lender is going to want to see the appraised value of the home and is only willing to lend you that amount between the down payment and the appraised value.  So if you want to buy a home for $1.5 million and the appraiser says it's only worth $1 million, that $500,000 difference is on you.  So in the vast majority of cases, either the seller has to lower the price or you go looking for a different house.  Hence why the homeowners/sellers are rightfully pissed.

Then the house isn't worth as much as the seller thinks it is. Appraisals protect the buyer from overpaying (by protecting the bank from over lending), not the seller from over-collecting.

The seller just needs to find another idiotic person to overpay for their residence they think is worth more.

You know how I know you didn't read the article?


Couple buys a house for $500k, puts $500k into it and magically think it's supposed to be worth $500k more than that.

And people wonder why housing affordability is a crisis. What kind of horse humping nonsense is that?
 
2021-12-04 8:40:02 PM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: Dr. Nick Riviera: 137 Is An Excellent Time: Dr. Nick Riviera: jake3988: I've seen these types of stories before... and I'm not sure I get the point.  Appraised values mean nothing... except for the fact that that is what you pay property taxes on.

So congratulations on your much larger property tax bill?

This could not be more wrong.  Unless you're paying straight cash for a home, you have to get something called a "mortgage."  The lender is going to want to see the appraised value of the home and is only willing to lend you that amount between the down payment and the appraised value.  So if you want to buy a home for $1.5 million and the appraiser says it's only worth $1 million, that $500,000 difference is on you.  So in the vast majority of cases, either the seller has to lower the price or you go looking for a different house.  Hence why the homeowners/sellers are rightfully pissed.

Then the house isn't worth as much as the seller thinks it is. Appraisals protect the buyer from overpaying (by protecting the bank from over lending), not the seller from over-collecting.

The seller just needs to find another idiotic person to overpay for their residence they think is worth more.

You know how I know you didn't read the article?

Couple buys a house for $500k, puts $500k into it and magically think it's supposed to be worth $500k more than that.

And people wonder why housing affordability is a crisis. What kind of horse humping nonsense is that?


So close to understanding critical race theory, and yet so far.
 
2021-12-04 8:44:26 PM  
FTFA: "The suit states they staged the home, deleting any evidence of their African American culture, such as pictures and art, and tapped their white friend to greet the appraiser."

Leaving aside the more important comps/racial issue for a second, there's a reason that virtually *any* smart seller should stage their property and remove evidence of themselves from it. If your concept of whitifying the property is making it bland and impersonal and cliche-tasteful, well, yeah, that works for white sellers too.

/albeit not worth an extra 50% unless your house's usual personality is somewhere on the cursed/brothel spectrum
//would be interesting to see comparative photos


gar1013: This is the crux of the argument here.

Should the appraisal have considered other communities in Marin county?


The allegation is that the *same home* in the *same location* gets more widespread and higher-priced comps when the appraiser is under the impression that the owner is white.

The relevant question isn't "Should the appraisal have considered other communities in Marin county?"
The relevant question is "Should the comps used for the appraisal depend on the race of the homeowner?"
 
2021-12-04 8:45:49 PM  
The fog marks the possible legal showdown? Caption writer, go sit down and take a break.  You are overheated or something.

Fark user imageView Full Size


Spent $4,500 on staging for selling my mom and dad's house, where I grew up and where they lived for 55 years before they passed away, and when I saw the listing photos I didn't recognize it.  It looked GREAT.  I briefly thought, "Maybe I should keep that place, that's FABULOUS!"  It was worth it; 15% over asking.
 
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