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(Guardian)   "What if I've ruined this for actresses?" Look Jodi, it was never your fault the showrunners couldn't write their way out of a wet paper bag, so please don't feel bad   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Doctor Who, Tenth Doctor, Fourth Doctor, The Next Doctor, Ninth Doctor, TARDIS, David Tennant, Journey's End  
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2381 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 04 Dec 2021 at 1:50 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-12-04 10:21:55 AM  
Jodi, you were fantastic. Thank you for the fun and adventure.
 
2021-12-04 10:40:25 AM  
 i loved her as the Doctor.

Sorry to see her go. :(
 
2021-12-04 10:42:01 AM  
No man would ever ask himself that question. Don't sweat it.
 
2021-12-04 10:51:14 AM  

edmo: No man would ever ask himself that question. Don't sweat it.


So very much this.
 
2021-12-04 10:57:04 AM  
I may have to hand in my nerd card as I had no idea there were new episodes.

/any chance the writing is better than the ending of the last season?
 
2021-12-04 11:10:49 AM  
They completely lost me halfway through the "Fruity King James, Witch-Hunter" episode.

Did I miss anything good afterwards?
 
2021-12-04 11:18:26 AM  

Gubbo: /any chance the writing is better than the ending of the last season?


Nope.
 
2021-12-04 11:18:28 AM  
Sigh. I haven't been able to watch the special that ended last season (The Doctor breaking out of jail and two companions leaving, or something) or anything since because I'm out of ways to watch it legally in Israel.

If only Britbox would work here or something.
 
2021-12-04 11:57:45 AM  
Who is the new Doctor and why is it not Richard Ayoade or Matt Berry?
 
2021-12-04 12:14:41 PM  

Gubbo: edmo: No man would ever ask himself that question. Don't sweat it.

So very much this.


So very, very, very much this.

Also, she did fine as the doctor.  She isn't as good as David Tennant, but no one else is as good as him, either.
 
2021-12-04 12:40:54 PM  
Hey you Did great
Not my fav, but I like mine with a bit more homicidal edge

(The Two Doctors)
 
2021-12-04 1:16:20 PM  

Shostie: Who is the new Doctor and why is it not Richard Ayoade or Matt Berry?


I said it last time, and I'll say it this time again. Sarah Lancashire, just playing her character from Happy Valley.

/if you haven't see Happy Valley, you should try and find it
//just the first scene of the first episode is all you'll need to know she should be the Doctor
 
2021-12-04 1:36:23 PM  

Shostie: Who is the new Doctor and why is it not Richard Ayoade or Matt Berry?


It's Michael Sheen and instead of talking he stares down the bad guys until they run away screaming.
 
2021-12-04 1:55:07 PM  
Chris Chibnall said that you and Mandip made a secret video for the crew. What did that involve?

media.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2021-12-04 1:58:11 PM  
Unless she was also the head writer, she's got nothing to apologize for.

I watched half of her first series and thought she was great in the role.  Unfortunately, the writing continued the sharp downward trend that started during Capaldi's run and I checked out of the series entirely.
 
2021-12-04 2:13:34 PM  

NeoCortex42: Unless she was also the head writer, she's got nothing to apologize for.

I watched half of her first series and thought she was great in the role.  Unfortunately, the writing continued the sharp downward trend that started during Capaldi's run and I checked out of the series entirely.


For me, the writing was firmly off the rails by Robots of Sherwood.
 
2021-12-04 2:38:39 PM  

edmo: No man would ever ask himself that question. Don't sweat it.


Why would a man ask himself, "What if I've ruined this for actresses?"

Weird.

/ unless he was that good
 
2021-12-04 2:39:46 PM  

Shostie: ...and why is [the new Doctor] not Richard Ayoade or Matt Berry?


Reasons too numerous and obvious to list here.
 
2021-12-04 2:44:40 PM  

BullBearMS: NeoCortex42: Unless she was also the head writer, she's got nothing to apologize for.

I watched half of her first series and thought she was great in the role.  Unfortunately, the writing continued the sharp downward trend that started during Capaldi's run and I checked out of the series entirely.

For me, the writing was firmly off the rails by Robots of Sherwood.


I feel like Capaldi's second season was his best, and Heaven Sent is one of the best Doctor Who episodes ever. His final season wasn't great, though, and I was glad to see Moffat gone by the end of it.

However, I really haven't been able to get into Chibnall's run at all. Aside from Jodie and the companions, nothing really has worked all that well. The new TARDIS looks like crap, the writing and directing is off, and I find myself hating a lot of the plot twists. I'm not a fan of the Doctor no longer just being a Time Lord who just one day decided to make the universe better because they were tired of seeing it go to hell, and overall they were kind of mediocre at being a Time Lord and what made them special was wanting to make a difference. Making the Doctor super special from the beginning just undermines a lot of the charm of the character, so the whole Division storyline kind of annoys me. It just feels like an even worse version of the Cartmel Masterplan towards the end of the original run, where the Doctor was being set up as  being a reincarnation of one of Rassilon and Omega's contemporaries.

God knows how RTD is going to walk that all back, but I feel like he kind of needs to retcon the hell out of it all.
 
2021-12-04 2:46:49 PM  

NeoCortex42: Unless she was also the head writer, she's got nothing to apologize for.

I watched half of her first series and thought she was great in the role.  Unfortunately, the writing continued the sharp downward trend that started during Capaldi's run and I checked out of the series entirely.


I had thought Capaldi was the perfect Doctor. And the first episode or two with him there confronting the Dalek looking into his mind and finding beauty in the Doctor's hatred of Dalek's, and how much that infuriated the Doctor, was great and amazingly deep.

Then the next episode was the corny Robin Hood episode that was so bad it literally killed the show for me.
 
2021-12-04 2:59:24 PM  
 l love Jodie Whittaker, she's a great actress.
I did not like her as the Doctor because of really bad writing.
Also, you don't need 25 companions.
 
2021-12-04 3:04:19 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Shostie: ...and why is [the new Doctor] not Richard Ayoade or Matt Berry?

Reasons too numerous and obvious to list here.


Too numerous I'll buy.  Too obvious?  You do remember which site you're on, yeah?
 
2021-12-04 3:08:12 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Also, you don't need 25 companions.


My personal favorite set of the Doctor and companions was Five with Nyssa, Tegan, Turlough, and Adric.
 
2021-12-04 3:10:41 PM  

bostonguy: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Also, you don't need 25 companions.

My personal favorite set of the Doctor and companions was Five with Nyssa, Tegan, Turlough, and Adric.


Turlough and Adric were in different seasons.
 
2021-12-04 3:11:33 PM  
Capaldi and Heaven Sent was an amazing episode.

Moffitt was a great writer and took big swings. The lows were bad, buy the highs were amazing. So I can forgive the dumb ones because that is how we got the great ones.

This runs writing was bad which is a shame because she was a fine actress, just had nothing to work with.
 
2021-12-04 3:16:11 PM  
Was a die-hard NuWho fan until Chris C. came into the picture as showrunner. I watched the prior two series but by the time the second Chibnall series was over I was done. When the third series started, I found I no longer cared to watch it.

Not Jodi's fault. Chris' fault.
 
2021-12-04 3:25:57 PM  
"What if I've ruined this for actresses?"

Translation: "I know that the next Dr Who is going to be a man."

/cue wokelord outrage
 
2021-12-04 3:30:48 PM  

Joe USer: bostonguy: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Also, you don't need 25 companions.

My personal favorite set of the Doctor and companions was Five with Nyssa, Tegan, Turlough, and Adric.

Turlough and Adric were in different seasons.


I meant that whole general group of people, who overlapped a few seasons.
 
2021-12-04 3:32:22 PM  
Haven't seen them all. But love what I've seen.

Your doctor will be remembered well Jodi!
 
2021-12-04 3:40:55 PM  
The show really started going off the rails in the Capaldi era, with its few very good episodes more than outweighed by mediocre or downright awful episodes (kill the moon anybody?)

Jody Whitaker is a marvelous actress but unfortunately the good to bad ratio of her run has been extremely disappointing. But absolutely no fault of this wonderful actress.

But the rot really did start with Steven Moffitt's self indulgent crap.
 
2021-12-04 3:42:27 PM  

WhippingBoi: "What if I've ruined this for actresses?"

Translation: "I know that the next Dr Who is going to be a man."

/cue wokelord outrage


You know you wouldn't get the feeling people are saying mean things about you if you'd stop saying such constantly stupid and obnoxious things. I know that's your sthick and probably the only thing you're good at, but seriously dude, lay off the 5-hour energy drink and step away from the keyboard for a while.
 
2021-12-04 3:44:38 PM  

bostonguy: Sigh. I haven't been able to watch the special that ended last season (The Doctor breaking out of jail and two companions leaving, or something) or anything since because I'm out of ways to watch it legally in Israel.

If only Britbox would work here or something.


If there is no way for you to watch it legally I guess they don't want your money and you should just pirate those kind of things.
 
2021-12-04 3:47:52 PM  

cocozilla: WhippingBoi: "What if I've ruined this for actresses?"

Translation: "I know that the next Dr Who is going to be a man."

/cue wokelord outrage

You know you wouldn't get the feeling people are saying mean things about you if you'd stop saying such constantly stupid and obnoxious things. I know that's your sthick and probably the only thing you're good at, but seriously dude, lay off the 5-hour energy drink and step away from the keyboard for a while.


You and I are like two peas in a pod!
 
2021-12-04 3:50:40 PM  

zbtop: Then the next episode was the corny Robin Hood episode that was so bad it literally killed the show for me.


But isn't that true for all British sci-fi, that it is super campy and super corny?  Even Space:1999 had its ridiculous moments.  People watch it because it gets ridiculous and even dumb at times with no attempts at explaining shiat.  The earliest Doctor Who shows with the first few doctors took that to an extreme, with rubber suit villains to boot.
 
2021-12-04 4:15:32 PM  

NM Volunteer: zbtop: Then the next episode was the corny Robin Hood episode that was so bad it literally killed the show for me.

But isn't that true for all British sci-fi, that it is super campy and super corny?  Even Space:1999 had its ridiculous moments.  People watch it because it gets ridiculous and even dumb at times with no attempts at explaining shiat.  The earliest Doctor Who shows with the first few doctors took that to an extreme, with rubber suit villains to boot.


The costumes in Blake's 7
The special effects in UFO
StarCops was pretty good
 
2021-12-04 4:34:29 PM  
I never wanted a female Doctor, and I predicted how it would turn out under the guidance of the current decision makers - in addition to my simply not liking the idea because it was too much of a divergence from the Doctor Who I grew up with.

You know what?  I don't blame the actress one bit.  It's all in the writing and the people who approved the writing.  Writing that was already well on the decline from the start of NuWho (but started out on a massive high aided by terrific performances from Eccleston, so it took a while to notice).

This wasn't "have the Doctor regenerate as a woman", this was 100% "let's inject sexual politics into this show" without anything else going for it.  Who needs good stories?  The Doctor has a vagina now!  And from time to time - even pre-Chibnall, even right back to RTD - there was a readily apparent effort to spread LGBTQ acceptance (not a bad aim) for which they put in purely ridiculous LGBTQ propaganda (bad method of achieving said aim).

And writer after writer misunderstood the show.  For all his problems, RTD 'got it' best, and even that was loaded with major faults.  By the most recent regeneration the show was already past the point of failure anyway.  It would have taken a miracle to recover and nobody in charge was interested in fixing the issues with RTD and Moffat's runs.
 
2021-12-04 5:05:53 PM  
Jodi did a fine job.  In those rare moments when the writing wasn't shiate, she excelled.  She didn't have the presence or charisma of Capaldi, but not many do.  Chibby was her albatross.
 
2021-12-04 5:34:30 PM  

Shostie: Who is the new Doctor and why is it not Richard Ayoade or Matt Berry?


Because they're going with this guy...
Fark user imageView Full Size
or this guy...
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-12-04 6:05:07 PM  

baka-san: NM Volunteer: zbtop: Then the next episode was the corny Robin Hood episode that was so bad it literally killed the show for me.

But isn't that true for all British sci-fi, that it is super campy and super corny?  Even Space:1999 had its ridiculous moments.  People watch it because it gets ridiculous and even dumb at times with no attempts at explaining shiat.  The earliest Doctor Who shows with the first few doctors took that to an extreme, with rubber suit villains to boot.

The costumes in Blake's 7
The special effects in UFO
StarCops was pretty good


Blake's 7 was insanely well written--and well acted--given its budget and technical limitations. I'm glad it found a bit of life with the Big Finish audio dramas.

If anyone ever tries to reboot it, it needs to be given The Expanse or Game Of Thrones levels of budget and effort. Nothing else would do justice go the original writers, directors, and actors.
 
2021-12-04 6:32:01 PM  

clkeagle: Blake's 7 was insanely well written--and well acted--given its budget and technical limitations. I'm glad it found a bit of life with the Big Finish audio dramas.


Wait, what?  We watched the whole crew get their guts splattered around with gunfire in the series finale.  How'd they come back from that?
 
2021-12-04 6:40:59 PM  

Unsung_Hero: clkeagle: Blake's 7 was insanely well written--and well acted--given its budget and technical limitations. I'm glad it found a bit of life with the Big Finish audio dramas.

Wait, what?  We watched the whole crew get their guts splattered around with gunfire in the series finale.  How'd they come back from that?


Had there been a fifth series every actor who wanted to return would find that their character was merely wounded rather than killed.
 
2021-12-04 6:55:44 PM  
Probably doesn't have to worry about that.  The consensus appears to be overwhelmingly that she was great, and the season was shiat almost entirely because of weak writing that leaned heavily on some really dumb tropes from modern pulp fiction that have gotten old even there, so it wasn't even bad in an original way that was potentially interesting like the 4th doctor's run.

Like... even the complaints about her character, like that this incarnation had no real moral principles she actually consistently acted on or that she was quirky for the sake of quirk and not to actually reveal anything about the character, those are all writing things, not acting things, and in a handful of episodes her acting was good enough to overcome those issues.

Basically she did well at it, there's no shame in taking a poorly-written role for a paycheck and even some professional cred to be gained from committing fully anyway even once you realize you've signed on to make some trash.

// Honestly the problems with this incarnation seem to be problems that kneecapped the tenth on the regular too, just more constantly instead of occasionally.  More a matter of there being none of the high points the series usually had instead of the low points being any worse than usual.
 
2021-12-04 7:03:55 PM  
She is getting the standard three seasons, no? She did fine.
 
2021-12-04 7:52:58 PM  
She was terrible.

The script writers and showrunners were also bad, but she was not good in the role.

SciFi is not soap opera and it needs actors that can project that they believe all of the unrealistic events and creatures that are portrayed on screen.

She just couldn't do that, she looked permanently lost as she floundered with even the most straightforward parts of the script.

Good riddance to the lot of them.
 
2021-12-04 8:12:05 PM  

WhippingBoi: "What if I've ruined this for actresses?"

Translation: "I know that the next Dr Who is going to be a man."

/cue wokelord outrage


Casting a woman in the role was a political decision. There is no reason for a woman to get that role, it's not as if that role is Prime Minster or Director General of the BBC (we'll come back to that later) where there is only one role to represent the entire nation. They could and should have created a new series based around The Doctor's Daughter, Romana, Clara and Me, or one or more of the other time travelling female characters, the point of making the Doctor female was not to create, it was to destroy, to make a visible sacrifice.

It should be noted that when they cast the first female Doctor, all but one of the current BBC drama series had a female lead. The one exception being Poldark whose male lead was cast to be appealing to women with his shirt off.

Curiously, as the BBC was putting on a performance of how progressive it was in its casting decisions, a new Director General was appointed and, surprise, another Oxbridge graduate.
 
2021-12-04 9:20:52 PM  

BarryJV: WhippingBoi: "What if I've ruined this for actresses?"

Translation: "I know that the next Dr Who is going to be a man."

/cue wokelord outrage

Casting a woman in the role was a political decision. There is no reason for a woman to get that role, it's not as if that role is Prime Minster or Director General of the BBC (we'll come back to that later) where there is only one role to represent the entire nation. They could and should have created a new series based around The Doctor's Daughter, Romana, Clara and Me, or one or more of the other time travelling female characters, the point of making the Doctor female was not to create, it was to destroy, to make a visible sacrifice.

It should be noted that when they cast the first female Doctor, all but one of the current BBC drama series had a female lead. The one exception being Poldark whose male lead was cast to be appealing to women with his shirt off.

Curiously, as the BBC was putting on a performance of how progressive it was in its casting decisions, a new Director General was appointed and, surprise, another Oxbridge graduate.


So why is a female Doctor a political thing but a male Doctor is not?
 
2021-12-04 9:37:04 PM  

BolloxReader: BarryJV: WhippingBoi: "What if I've ruined this for actresses?"

Translation: "I know that the next Dr Who is going to be a man."

/cue wokelord outrage

Casting a woman in the role was a political decision. There is no reason for a woman to get that role, it's not as if that role is Prime Minster or Director General of the BBC (we'll come back to that later) where there is only one role to represent the entire nation. They could and should have created a new series based around The Doctor's Daughter, Romana, Clara and Me, or one or more of the other time travelling female characters, the point of making the Doctor female was not to create, it was to destroy, to make a visible sacrifice.

It should be noted that when they cast the first female Doctor, all but one of the current BBC drama series had a female lead. The one exception being Poldark whose male lead was cast to be appealing to women with his shirt off.

Curiously, as the BBC was putting on a performance of how progressive it was in its casting decisions, a new Director General was appointed and, surprise, another Oxbridge graduate.

So why is a female Doctor a political thing but a male Doctor is not?


Well, you see, the time traveling shape changing alien that champions justice, rights, equality and fairness shouldn't be a woman because that would be political.
 
2021-12-04 9:56:04 PM  

Joe USer: BolloxReader: BarryJV: WhippingBoi: "What if I've ruined this for actresses?"

Translation: "I know that the next Dr Who is going to be a man."

/cue wokelord outrage

Casting a woman in the role was a political decision. There is no reason for a woman to get that role, it's not as if that role is Prime Minster or Director General of the BBC (we'll come back to that later) where there is only one role to represent the entire nation. They could and should have created a new series based around The Doctor's Daughter, Romana, Clara and Me, or one or more of the other time travelling female characters, the point of making the Doctor female was not to create, it was to destroy, to make a visible sacrifice.

It should be noted that when they cast the first female Doctor, all but one of the current BBC drama series had a female lead. The one exception being Poldark whose male lead was cast to be appealing to women with his shirt off.

Curiously, as the BBC was putting on a performance of how progressive it was in its casting decisions, a new Director General was appointed and, surprise, another Oxbridge graduate.

So why is a female Doctor a political thing but a male Doctor is not?

Well, you see, the time traveling shape changing alien that champions justice, rights, equality and fairness shouldn't be a woman because that would be political.


Woman/Non-white gets a role?

IDENTITY POLITICS! DIVERSITY HIRE! HERPA DERPA WHITE GENOCIDE!!!!
 
2021-12-04 10:18:20 PM  

BolloxReader: So why is a female Doctor a political thing but a male Doctor is not?


You already know why, but you're patting yourself on the back for pretending you're being clever so I'll play along.

The part (at least once we got past the first Doctor and they started creating all the Time Lord stuff) was for a white male born of a stand-in for the British aristocracy - hidebound, stuffy, corrupt, white, and male.  And he was the rebel who ignored their ways to run around trying to fix things.  That's the part. There's nothing political about it if you keep it the same, at least not beyond the original commentary on the British class system.

It isn't a female Doctor that is political, it's the decision to change the part.  Just like the decision to continually write lines presenting heterosexuality as abnormal, or occasionally misrepresenting history to make it appear modern intolerance of homosexuality is a new thing.   It's been propaganda for a particular set of sexual politics since Jack Harkness showed up at least.

There were plenty of options for female leads in the Whoverse - we had Sarah Jane Smith in her own spinoff for a while, we could have had another spinoff with Jenny (plenty of us were clamoring for it).  It was more important to the powers that be to co-opt the original show to promote their political view... which is political because it goes beyond showing "homosexuality is normal, not disgusting or evil or sinful" when appropriate and into frequently pushing "if you don't accept a same-sex proposition from time to time, you're the bad guy" territory.  It's ridiculous.

But hey, you won.  You got your female lead in the original show.  Awesome.  And as predicted, that's all you had because it's all that was important to you, and the show's gone to shiat as a result.

And that's why I love popping in to the weekly Doctor Who threads to talk about the ratings dive.  You ruined it for me - and the majority of other viewers - but at least I can enjoy the fact that your propaganda work is failing to reach the audience you wanted it to reach.
 
2021-12-04 10:23:45 PM  

Gordon Bennett: Unsung_Hero: clkeagle: Blake's 7 was insanely well written--and well acted--given its budget and technical limitations. I'm glad it found a bit of life with the Big Finish audio dramas.

Wait, what?  We watched the whole crew get their guts splattered around with gunfire in the series finale.  How'd they come back from that?

Had there been a fifth series every actor who wanted to return would find that their character was merely wounded rather than killed.


Which would have been ... Avon and Soolin.
Michael Keating, Steven Pacey, and Josette Simon all said at the time that they'd had enough.
 
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