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(National Post)   Is it too soon to start talking about responsible chefs and British cuisine control?   (nationalpost.com) divider line
    More: Awkward, Prison, Law, Sentence, Guilt, Chef, John Croucher, Christopher Hopkins, church congregation  
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663 clicks; posted to Food » on 04 Dec 2021 at 1:45 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



25 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-12-03 9:08:54 PM  
No.
 
2021-12-03 10:54:20 PM  
No way to prevent this, says only country where this happens....

/Actually quite rare here.
//Should have had a nice kebab instead.
 
2021-12-03 11:26:17 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: No way to prevent this, says only country where this happens....

/Actually quite rare here.
//Should have had a nice kebab instead.


[/BSE likes this]
 
2021-12-04 1:32:06 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: No way to prevent this, says only country where this happens....

/Actually quite rare here.
//Should have had a nice kebab instead.


Or a nice curry.
 
151 [OhFark]
2021-12-04 2:21:52 AM  
How do you boil everything in your dish and still manage to get people sick?

/S
//... Kinda
 
2021-12-04 2:42:28 AM  
They called the incident a "one-off mistake," Campbell said, "but looking at the evidence this was not a one-off mistake.
"The pub should have been taking steps to be improving. Inspections in 2015 gave it three stars and in 2017 gave it only a one star."


ok, so... is the judge saying this was the chef's fault or the pub's fault? sounds like the landlord/pub was fined about UKP13,000, but it's the chef who goes to gaol*?

and not to blame the victim, but aren't nonagenarians either:
- incessantly bangin' on about long life thanks to drink, tobacco and pub food
- dying thanks to drink, tobacco and pub food

*suspended
 
2021-12-04 4:23:45 AM  

151: How do you boil everything in your dish and still manage to get people sick?

/S
//... Kinda


Because things have to boil for a minimum amount of time to actually be fully cooked


Also, why are brits so defensive of their "cuisine" when its only ever been something that is worse than leftovers that sat in the back of the fridge for a week and a half
 
2021-12-04 4:41:22 AM  
A good mince pie is a rare treat. Just make sure it's well done.

/used to do a lot of bacterial culture on purpose. The techniques are disturbing close to poor cooking practice.
 
2021-12-04 4:43:02 AM  

MrBallou: A good mince pie is a rare treat. Just make sure it's well done.

/used to do a lot of bacterial culture on purpose. The techniques are disturbing close to poor cooking practice.


"Disturbingly"

I'm not drunk, YOU'RE drunk
 
2021-12-04 6:58:54 AM  
"This is something I will never forget. Because of it, I am a better chef and it is just a shame the cost of it had to be what it was," he told the court.


Bull poop. Of high order. Too many people don't food safety seriously.

Food poisoning is the O-Ring of food service.

/
First day of sanitation class:
Instructor "I've killed people and you will too."
//
Damn shame most people don't care.  Especially bean counters and owners and idiots who live in the world of what's not killed them, yet.
 
2021-12-04 7:44:30 AM  

waxbeans: "This is something I will never forget. Because of it, I am a better chef and it is just a shame the cost of it had to be what it was," he told the court.


Bull poop. Of high order. Too many people don't food safety seriously.

Food poisoning is the O-Ring of food service.

/
First day of sanitation class:
Instructor "I've killed people and you will too."
//
Damn shame most people don't care.  Especially bean counters and owners and idiots who live in the world of what's not killed them, yet.


Drunk cooking isn't the same order of magnitude as drunk driving, but accidents can still happen, and you still have to be careful. I've been looking for a creative use for this TVP Maye I'll undercook a Sheppard's pie and leave it sit out.
 
2021-12-04 8:25:06 AM  
I've worked for a kitchen that got cited for food borne illness. I remember the drop in the stomach as the chef called me over after my weekend, and informed me that the Health Department was doing an investigation.

One of our pantry guys was roasting turkeys. We sliced our own turkey for sandwiches, and it was great to have the fresh product, plus we could control the salt content. The difficulty was that this guy didn't temp his birds before he started breaking them down, and then decided to put the undercooked stuff back in the oven, and use the 'good stuff' for sandwiches. And he fed some of the staff his undercooked bird. About 20 people got sick. We were literally one under the 'mandatory shutdown' flag.

The cook was fired. He'd already violated protocol for the cooking, plus he got staff and the public sick, and we had to wait two weeks before firing him, because he got salmonella from his own birds as well. With a heavy heart, we switched to deli turkey with the liability issue hanging over our heads. We lost three staff members who got sick and never came back, and I don't blame them in the least. Our protocols were good, but we revamped them anyway because this kid sailed right past them, and while a supervisor check was supposed to occur when the birds came out, with temperature log, obviously, they could be stronger. Straight up ignored the procedures, and the supervisor that day didn't catch him.

Chef was absolutely shaken. All the management team was. Getting a call like can literally kill a joint. A complaint of food borne illness will be investigated. You don't want that. Even if you have your logs and are careful, you don't want a reason for an investigation on your record, nor do you want to make people sick. Temp logs are a pain in the ass, but they can save your ass too. Had a complaint some years ago, and we had our logs, we ran down procedure, and then we found out that the customer in question went to chicken shack she'd had lunch at before she complained about the twenty minutes that the discomfort set in. She for damn sure had salmonella, the difficulty is that lamb is not normally a carrier, and the symptoms don't set in for 6-24 hours. The time frame from the investigation got the litigious woman off our back, and sent her right to the chicken shack that she'd had lunch at.

The thing is: chemical contamination was indeed a possible culprit. Dish soap could have led to the symptoms suffered. In a way, we were lucky that it was salmonella, because we could show where the product was prepped, the boards and knife sets used, and run down our dish procedures. You have to lock down your procedures and use HACCP all the time. So much so that it is reflex. Physical contamination, chemical, biological, it has to be considered. Not just for stuff you send out for service, but all the time.

Mistakes can happen. They do, but you minimize those possibilities at every turn. You do NOT want to see the Health Department ride in like that. Ever.
 
2021-12-04 9:38:40 AM  
Despite the tragedy, the court was told that members of the church congregation were not looking for retribution against the pub, its landlord Neil Bilingham, or Croucher.

Maybe it is BritSpeak for something, but as written it makes no sense. What does the landlord for a pub have to do with how something was cooked by a pub's employee? Damn Brits...

Croucher called his own remorse "an understatement. "This is something I will never forget. Because of it, I am a better chef and it is just a shame the cost of it had to be what it was," he told the court.
Nope! You, Sir, are not a chef atoll so there is no way this experience will make you a better one.Didn't we just have a "cook ground beast well" thread? Well, here's the proof.(grandma died from puking)
 
2021-12-04 9:57:17 AM  
media-amazon.comView Full Size
 
2021-12-04 9:59:04 AM  

lifeslammer: 151: How do you boil everything in your dish and still manage to get people sick?

/S
//... Kinda

Because things have to boil for a minimum amount of time to actually be fully cooked


Also, why are brits so defensive of their "cuisine" when its only ever been something that is worse than leftovers that sat in the back of the fridge for a week and a half


Shepherds pie IS leftovers that have been sitting in the back of the fridge for over a week. That was pretty clearly the issue in this case.
 
2021-12-04 10:08:51 AM  

algman: lifeslammer: 151: How do you boil everything in your dish and still manage to get people sick?

/S
//... Kinda

Because things have to boil for a minimum amount of time to actually be fully cooked


Also, why are brits so defensive of their "cuisine" when its only ever been something that is worse than leftovers that sat in the back of the fridge for a week and a half

Shepherds pie IS leftovers that have been sitting in the back of the fridge for over a week. That was pretty clearly the issue in this case.


He prepped ahead of time, but used undercooked product, and served it without temperature control. Not exactly leftovers. His error was NOT taking the temp, in both cases. And improperly cooled the prep so that the bacteria had a nice home to breed.

HACCP. Learn it. Love it. Live it.
 
2021-12-04 10:46:54 AM  
See? Stick to fish and Chips, bacteria doesn't win against really hot oil.

Also is this not a manslaughter charge? Does Britain even have manslaughter charges?
 
2021-12-04 10:47:55 AM  

Percise1: Despite the tragedy, the court was told that members of the church congregation were not looking for retribution against the pub, its landlord Neil Bilingham, or Croucher.

Maybe it is BritSpeak for something, but as written it makes no sense. What does the landlord for a pub have to do with how something was cooked by a pub's employee? Damn Brits...


Landlord is the pub owner/manager. Even if he rents the building from the brewery or someone else he is still the landlord. He runs the business, hires and fires the staff, sets the menu etc.
 
2021-12-04 10:49:55 AM  

MrBallou: A good mince pie is a rare treat. Just make sure it's well done.

/used to do a lot of bacterial culture on purpose. The techniques are disturbing close to poor cooking practice.


In the UK a Mince Pie is minced fruit, not meat. The filling is similar to christmas pudding and is often served as dessert with cream.
A pie made with minced beef or lamb is  Cottage Pie or a Sheperds Pie.
 
2021-12-04 11:17:03 AM  

hubiestubert: I've worked for a kitchen that got cited for food borne illness. I remember the drop in the stomach as the chef called me over after my weekend, and informed me that the Health Department was doing an investigation.

One of our pantry guys was roasting turkeys. We sliced our own turkey for sandwiches, and it was great to have the fresh product, plus we could control the salt content. The difficulty was that this guy didn't temp his birds before he started breaking them down, and then decided to put the undercooked stuff back in the oven, and use the 'good stuff' for sandwiches. And he fed some of the staff his undercooked bird. About 20 people got sick. We were literally one under the 'mandatory shutdown' flag.

The cook was fired. He'd already violated protocol for the cooking, plus he got staff and the public sick, and we had to wait two weeks before firing him, because he got salmonella from his own birds as well. With a heavy heart, we switched to deli turkey with the liability issue hanging over our heads. We lost three staff members who got sick and never came back, and I don't blame them in the least. Our protocols were good, but we revamped them anyway because this kid sailed right past them, and while a supervisor check was supposed to occur when the birds came out, with temperature log, obviously, they could be stronger. Straight up ignored the procedures, and the supervisor that day didn't catch him.

Chef was absolutely shaken. All the management team was. Getting a call like can literally kill a joint. A complaint of food borne illness will be investigated. You don't want that. Even if you have your logs and are careful, you don't want a reason for an investigation on your record, nor do you want to make people sick. Temp logs are a pain in the ass, but they can save your ass too. Had a complaint some years ago, and we had our logs, we ran down procedure, and then we found out that the customer in question went to chicken shack she'd had lunch at before she complained about the twenty minutes that the discomfort set in. She for damn sure had salmonella, the difficulty is that lamb is not normally a carrier, and the symptoms don't set in for 6-24 hours. The time frame from the investigation got the litigious woman off our back, and sent her right to the chicken shack that she'd had lunch at.

The thing is: chemical contamination was indeed a possible culprit. Dish soap could have led to the symptoms suffered. In a way, we were lucky that it was salmonella, because we could show where the product was prepped, the boards and knife sets used, and run down our dish procedures. You have to lock down your procedures and use HACCP all the time. So much so that it is reflex. Physical contamination, chemical, biological, it has to be considered. Not just for stuff you send out for service, but all the time.

Mistakes can happen. They do, but you minimize those possibilities at every turn. You do NOT want to see the Health Department ride in like that. Ever.


You're in America.

Instead of going to all that trouble, why not run for Congress on the platform of "why should *I* be responsible for someone else getting sick at my establishment?" and get elected and make way more at your new job while getting national fame and fundraising millions of dollars to advance the causes of stupid and evil people?
 
2021-12-04 11:20:46 AM  
Rancid Lamb of God is the name of my death metal punk cover band.
 
2021-12-04 11:37:31 AM  
I thought the exact same thing happened in Australia last week.
 
2021-12-04 1:07:06 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: No way to prevent this, says only country where this happens....

/Actually quite rare here.
//Should have had a nice kebab instead.


I got food poisoning from a kebab once in fact.

It happened in Egypt, and the problem wasn't the meat. I now know that you shouldn't eat any fresh vegetables in a country where even the locals won't drink the tab water. Because there's a really high chance that the tomato and lettuce in the kebab, had been rinsed in tab water.

All stores in Hurghada (I don't know if the problem is universal in Egypt) sold 5 litre plastic bottles with drinking water, so I am quite sure noone drank the tab water (we shopped in the poor district as well, same story). It was in fact light brown. OK for flushing the toilet, watering plants, not much else.
 
2021-12-04 1:17:00 PM  

waxbeans: "This is something I will never forget. Because of it, I am a better chef and it is just a shame the cost of it had to be what it was," he told the court.


Bull poop. Of high order. Too many people don't food safety seriously.

Food poisoning is the O-Ring of food service.

/
First day of sanitation class:
Instructor "I've killed people and you will too."
//
Damn shame most people don't care.  Especially bean counters and owners and idiots who live in the world of what's not killed them, yet.


It is bullshiat.

He said he was rushed. All he had to do was to spend 5 seconds with his electronic thermometer, and verify that the meat was "acceptable temperature". 70C seems to be about the accepted number to be sure, for ground beef. Less for roasts and steaks, but this wasn't whole meat.
 
2021-12-04 2:53:19 PM  

Ketchuponsteak: Carter Pewterschmidt: No way to prevent this, says only country where this happens....

/Actually quite rare here.
//Should have had a nice kebab instead.

I got food poisoning from a kebab once in fact.

It happened in Egypt, and the problem wasn't the meat. I now know that you shouldn't eat any fresh vegetables in a country where even the locals won't drink the tab water. Because there's a really high chance that the tomato and lettuce in the kebab, had been rinsed in tab water.

All stores in Hurghada (I don't know if the problem is universal in Egypt) sold 5 litre plastic bottles with drinking water, so I am quite sure noone drank the tab water (we shopped in the poor district as well, same story). It was in fact light brown. OK for flushing the toilet, watering plants, not much else.


I was paranoid in India. Bottled water only, bought from a proper store not a street vendor, and I had my Steripen as well. Didn't have any trouble at all.

/My problem was money. I arrived the very day they announced, with no warning, that with immediate effect, that their banknotes were worthless. No ATMs working, no way to get cash. And you can't buy Indian money before you arrive. For lunch a few days I had McDonalds. Yes, I went to India and ate f*cking McDonalds for lunch because they were the only places that took cards.
 
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