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(MSN)   This slideshow will make you smarter than the CEO of Moderna in just 8 easy steps   (msn.com) divider line
    More: Unlikely, Vaccination, Dozens of countries, new variant of the coronavirus, Vaccine, Omicron variant, Pharmaceutical companies, United States, New York Times  
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789 clicks; posted to STEM » on 02 Dec 2021 at 12:29 PM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



7 Comments     (+0 »)
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2021-12-02 12:38:12 PM  
Does anyone know what subby is mad about? Is it slideshows?
 
2021-12-02 12:47:26 PM  
I confess, I didn't read the slideshow.

Are there people who prefer these to getting information in a smooth, continuous manner, like in an article?

I know some people prefer videos, which I rarely bother with. Takes me too long to get the information I want.
 
2021-12-02 12:53:12 PM  

wingedkat: I confess, I didn't read the slideshow.

Are there people who prefer these to getting information in a smooth, continuous manner, like in an article?

I know some people prefer videos, which I rarely bother with. Takes me too long to get the information I want.


You need to do the slideshow "How To Read Slideshows" first.

And Subby is wrong.  I heard the Moderna guy got to look at a slideshow with 23 slides in it.  That's 5 more slides than ours.  It's a pharma-industrial complex conspiracy to keep us in the dark!
 
2021-12-02 4:22:44 PM  
What we do know
- Some mAb cocktails continue to work
- Some work marginally
- Some fail
- Vaccination is unmistakably providing protection in SA

So not exactly any shocking news: The mutations impact some antibodies but not others, vaccination provokes broad-based B and T cell immunity.

Gottlieb today says that data is currently starting to converge on the outcome that omicron is actually less intrinsically infectious than delta, but is succeeding in SA because the majority (~70%) of population are not vaccinated. This, combined with reports that vaccination is providing protection, is extremely telling.

This is the next variant that successfully sidesteps natural immunity (because that mostly targets the wrong protein). We know that the B and T cell responses provoked by the vaccines are much broader than those resulting from infection, which is why the vaccines (based on the ancestral strain) continue to provide protection.

So what's probably on course to happen in the US is: A new wave of infections, which hits vaccinated areas like a knee-wetting splash and hits poorly vaccinated areas like a category 5 storm surge.
 
2021-12-02 5:28:45 PM  

erik-k: What we do know


Ww don't know that yet. But if our data is coming from a 70% unvaccinated population where Omicron doesn't make up even 5% of the infections, then we can't use that data to say what vaccine efficacy is like.

We only know that we have some data. We don't have enough, and we don't have enough numbers crunched yet.

We cannot say that we support science, and skip the part where we do the science. Science is something you do, not something that you skip and then state guesses as conclusions.

The Fark respone to Omicron has been one of the most anti-science things I've seen on this site. Like you guy can't even wait 2 weeks, and in the meantime, take precautions as if Omicron could be danerous. "It could be dangerous" is the only hypothesis we have until a week and a half from now.
 
2021-12-02 6:08:44 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: erik-k: What we do know

Ww don't know that yet. But if our data is coming from a 70% unvaccinated population where Omicron doesn't make up even 5% of the infections, then we can't use that data to say what vaccine efficacy is like.

We only know that we have some data. We don't have enough, and we don't have enough numbers crunched yet.

We cannot say that we support science, and skip the part where we do the science. Science is something you do, not something that you skip and then state guesses as conclusions.

The Fark respone to Omicron has been one of the most anti-science things I've seen on this site. Like you guy can't even wait 2 weeks, and in the meantime, take precautions as if Omicron could be danerous. "It could be dangerous" is the only hypothesis we have until a week and a half from now.


You might be surprised, but the reason I never mentioned the effectiveness of mAb cocktails before today is precisely because the first reports of the effectiveness of several monoclonal antibodies at neutralizing omicron came out... literally this morning.

The reason I didn't mention the possibility that omicron is less infectious than delta but able to sidestep the convalescent immune response effectively is because (while obviously plausible, even probable given that it happened three times already) it was not suggested seriously by anyone in a position to know until... today.

The reason I assert that it is almost certain that the vaccines will continue to provide protection is the same reason that a complete vaccine escape variant is believed to be extremely improbable: There exist on the S protein multiple extremely strongly conserved regions, to which a variety of neutralizing antibodies are known to bind. These are things the virus clearly *can't* change.

You're not the only person who knows how to bring things up on medrxiv or draw accurate inferences.
 
2021-12-03 1:10:54 AM  

erik-k: You're not the only person who knows how to bring things up on medrxiv or draw accurate inferences.


I stand publicly shamed, and shall slink away.
 
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