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    More: Asinine, Automobile, Electric vehicle, Battery electric vehicle, electric vehicles, Automotive industry, Internal combustion engine, Carlos Tavares, Plug-in hybrid  
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3972 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Dec 2021 at 11:25 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-12-01 9:08:12 PM  
Mom had one HELL of a contraction when your head was coming out of the womb, dude.

img-s-msn-com.akamaized.netView Full Size
 
2021-12-01 10:15:43 PM  
If some of the companies you acquired had spent the last decade developing EVs instead of banking on '60s nostalgia, maybe you wouldn't have this problem.
 
2021-12-01 11:26:45 PM  
GFY.
 
2021-12-01 11:29:34 PM  
They're just setting us up for basic commuter cars costing a hundred grand.
 
2021-12-01 11:29:47 PM  
Sometimes the hand of the free market biatch-slaps your companies if they are stuck in the past.
 
2021-12-01 11:34:18 PM  
 
2021-12-01 11:34:30 PM  
Or. Stop designing life around cars? JFC.
 
2021-12-01 11:37:29 PM  
Car companies have been incompetent for a couple decades now. The failure for EV and fuel economy ha been tragically farking stupid.

Let them go bankrupt. Americans are replaceable. We can make our own EVs. We'll buy the GM and Ford factories for cheap and refit them. The USA is a shiathole country now anyhow, we only fail by tying our future to their Trumphumping economists.
 
2021-12-01 11:37:41 PM  
"We'll never be able to absorb the cost of these 5 mph front bumpers the government is making us design onto our passenger cars. It'll cripple a proud industry."  --- some automaker around 1970.
 
2021-12-01 11:38:13 PM  
the last car i bought, cost about $1400 yes fourteen hundred.

so when it gets down to that i will buy one, used of course.

this might take some time....
 
2021-12-01 11:38:45 PM  

common sense is an oxymoron: If some of the companies you acquired had spent the last decade developing EVs instead of banking on '60s nostalgia, maybe you wouldn't have this problem.


It isn't that. They purchased an existing product - DaimlerChrysler -  rode it as long as they can, sold for a cash injection from the Italians (who have almost no market here in the USA) got Peugeot to double down and will want a bailout for it not being profitable.

This is just lazy businessmanship.
 
2021-12-01 11:40:46 PM  

Demetrius: Mom had one HELL of a contraction when your head was coming out of the womb, dude.

[img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net image 434x287]


The picture was taken at a funny angle!

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-12-01 11:42:28 PM  
Develop more hydrogen fuel cell cars.
I don't want to spend at least 30 minutes "fueling" my EV at a charging station.
 
2021-12-01 11:43:10 PM  
These are the same people who can't properly place a cup holder or air vent.
 
2021-12-01 11:43:54 PM  

WTP 2: the last car i bought, cost about $1400 yes fourteen hundred.


The last car I bought cost me $11,000 new in 1990.

It's parked outside and is now at 506,000 miles.
 
2021-12-01 11:44:10 PM  
"Who Killed The Electric Car" Cut to 6 mins By: Steve Todey
Youtube l3OnYjP4FTk
Go f*ck yourselves and die, auto CEOs.
 
2021-12-01 11:45:29 PM  

maxandgrinch: They're just setting us up for basic commuter cars costing a hundred grand.


Well, let's just hope that if electric cars can't actually be produced at scale and reasonable costs by any manufacturer before any government mandates begin (because we can't get enough cobalt or lithium or whatever other raw materials needed) that such mandates will be slowed down until supply and demand and technology come to a reasonable equilibrium. People never forgive the government for pushing mandates ahead of what the market can supply - if you're old enough you might remember how everyone felt about basically every car produced between the mid-'70s and the mid-'90s, or (believe it or not) things like low-flow toilets and non-incandescent light bulbs. Yes, there actually are real American citizens other than Donald Trump still mad about things like that. They're his voters. It will be as bad or worse with electric cars if they aren't allowed to take over the market organically.
 
2021-12-01 11:45:41 PM  
Modern cars are just bits of plastic twist-tied onto a frame made from the least amount of steel possible, anyway.

Make your CEO sell one of his islands and get to it!

Lazy rich parasites.
 
2021-12-01 11:46:35 PM  

Huck And Molly Ziegler: "We'll never be able to absorb the cost of these 5 mph front bumpers the government is making us design onto our passenger cars. It'll cripple a proud industry."  --- some automaker around 1970.


They didn't absorb the cost. They passed it on to the consumers.
 
2021-12-01 11:47:17 PM  
The quiet part this tool isn't saying is that the extra costs come from propping up the dealership model.

The cost and complexity to produce an electric vehicle is orders of magnitude less than an automobile. That low barrier to entry is why Dyson opted out of the market entirely. If there's no barrier to entry, then there will be more competition, which means lower prices, and more effort to break even on storage and delivery costs.

Dyson was just in for manufacturing and storage, auto manufacturers are in for their sick cabal of middlemen with their gross excess of lots, dealerships, and every other bit of graft designed to spread the risk as far as possible.

The entire auto industry should burn.
 
2021-12-01 11:49:16 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Develop more hydrogen fuel cell cars.
I don't want to spend at least 30 minutes "fueling" my EV at a charging station.


Hyundai already has one, Granted, it's around $60,000 USD and only available in California, but they are actively working on both electric and hydrogen cell cars. I'm looking for an electric as I already have rooftop solar panels and want to give the middlest of fingers to the power company.
 
2021-12-01 11:51:45 PM  
Hmmmm...looks like Batman isn't the only one with an alter ego.

Fark user imageView Full Size


i.ytimg.comView Full Size
 
2021-12-01 11:51:50 PM  
China's Coming EV Battery Waste Problem
Youtube u-38O6jSyiQ
 
2021-12-01 11:52:26 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Develop more hydrogen fuel cell cars.
I don't want to spend at least 30 minutes "fueling" my EV at a charging station.


If you want to conveniently ignore that most people will charge their vehicles at home overnight and a single high voltage charge gets you 90 miles in 10 minutes, sure. Charging infrastructure isn't just in parking lots, the gas station model doesn't apply, there are numerous levels of charging options that even support apartment style living. The UK even has programs for EV charging in council housing.

Nearly all vehicle operation is less than 15 miles, so EVs make perfect sense for almost every use case.
 
2021-12-01 11:53:43 PM  

mrparks: This is just lazy businessmanship.


Nope. Business people are thieves in suits.
 
2021-12-01 11:55:22 PM  

Monocultured: The quiet part this tool isn't saying is that the extra costs come from propping up the dealership model.

The cost and complexity to produce an electric vehicle is orders of magnitude less than an automobile. That low barrier to entry is why Dyson opted out of the market entirely. If there's no barrier to entry, then there will be more competition, which means lower prices, and more effort to break even on storage and delivery costs.

Dyson was just in for manufacturing and storage, auto manufacturers are in for their sick cabal of middlemen with their gross excess of lots, dealerships, and every other bit of graft designed to spread the risk as far as possible.

The entire auto industry should burn.


Exactly
 
2021-12-02 12:00:59 AM  
....looks over list of Stellantis brands.....

Dude, ya'll will be doing good to still be in business by the time EVs sweep the market.
 
2021-12-02 12:07:36 AM  
This is the only article I've ever seen claiming EVs cost more than ICE vehicles, since the EV1 and the initial Prius launch.

Everyone has always acknowledged once battery tech came around (it has) that EVs would actually be cheaper to build than ICE cars.

They're just priming the consumer to be ready to get farked by markups or new taxes.
 
2021-12-02 12:22:37 AM  

maxandgrinch: They're just setting us up for basic commuter cars costing a hundred grand.


This is accurate. I work in commercial finance. A vehicle (say a Hino268 box truck) cost 85k new last year. I just got a 2021 funded for 117k. It's literally the same truck as a 2020.

Those costs are not coming down.
 
2021-12-02 12:28:58 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Develop more hydrogen fuel cell cars.
I don't want to spend at least 30 minutes "fueling" my EV at a charging station.


For most users (not all), EV drivers spend less time fueling than non-EV users.

This is because a home "fuel" system is a few k, and means you *only* need to fuel when making trips beyond your effective EV range.  Any number of shorter trips ends up giving zero total refueling time; in a gas car, every few 100 km you have to spend 5+ minutes refueling.

This is not true of everyone.

But gas air pollution kikls a farkload of people.  ICE powered cars in any but remote areas is seriously anti-social, they aren't clean enough.  Let alone the carbon costs.

I am very much looking forward to the era when spewing combustion products into the air isn't considered normal.
 
2021-12-02 12:31:32 AM  

Monocultured: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Develop more hydrogen fuel cell cars.
I don't want to spend at least 30 minutes "fueling" my EV at a charging station.

If you want to conveniently ignore that most people will charge their vehicles at home overnight and a single high voltage charge gets you 90 miles in 10 minutes, sure. Charging infrastructure isn't just in parking lots, the gas station model doesn't apply, there are numerous levels of charging options that even support apartment style living. The UK even has programs for EV charging in council housing.

Nearly all vehicle operation is less than 15 miles, so EVs make perfect sense for almost every use case.


It's a problem if someone's parked in my space.

Or if you live somewhere that doesn't even have assigned parking.
 
2021-12-02 12:32:27 AM  

Monocultured: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Develop more hydrogen fuel cell cars.
I don't want to spend at least 30 minutes "fueling" my EV at a charging station.

If you want to conveniently ignore that most people will charge their vehicles at home overnight and a single high voltage charge gets you 90 miles in 10 minutes, sure. Charging infrastructure isn't just in parking lots, the gas station model doesn't apply, there are numerous levels of charging options that even support apartment style living. The UK even has programs for EV charging in council housing.

Nearly all vehicle operation is less than 15 miles, so EVs make perfect sense for almost every use case.


It does suck for those of us living in apartments with no good parking-charging options, though I will say that my local electric company has been conducting surveys and research into the area to gauge interest into installing city-wide charging locations, which would be cool. So here's hoping.
 
2021-12-02 12:54:08 AM  
Automakers could charge higher prices and sell fewer cars, or accept lower profit margins, Tavares said.

Since the lower profit margins are completely out of the picture, how about you just sell fewer cars?  Since you now spend approximately 10 billion dollars a year on advertising, how about you skip the marketing, sell fewer cars, and have a nice farking day, jackass?
 
2021-12-02 1:03:04 AM  
Charging at retail locations for charging while you shop, eat, recreate, might be an option for apartment dwellers.
 
2021-12-02 1:05:47 AM  

Creepy Lurker Guy: WTP 2: the last car i bought, cost about $1400 yes fourteen hundred.

The last car I bought cost me $11,000 new in 1990.

It's parked outside and is now at 506,000 miles.


mine was a 1997 i bought it in 2010 and gave it away when the wife bought a new one.
she never got in it and did not ever want to be seen in it.
so i figure that my first electric car will look like it has leaky batteries in it.
 
2021-12-02 1:05:56 AM  
Necessity is the mother of innovation.

If they want to make a ton of money making EVs, they will find a way.

/Crying about the cost, is only part of their grieving process over the loss of their gravy years.

//I'm predicting that within ten years, they will be hauling down the same in profits by then, if not more.
 
2021-12-02 1:42:12 AM  
The automakers say they can't keep the price down low enough... but they are all technically finance companies that happen to make cars. They shouldn't care if everybody switched to leases, as the cash flow off leases is better than the profit from sales. It's just another step toward car as service or subscription, instead of self-owned product.
 
2021-12-02 1:45:11 AM  

mrparks: common sense is an oxymoron: If some of the companies you acquired had spent the last decade developing EVs instead of banking on '60s nostalgia, maybe you wouldn't have this problem.

It isn't that. They purchased an existing product - DaimlerChrysler -  rode it as long as they can, sold for a cash injection from the Italians (who have almost no market here in the USA) got Peugeot to double down and will want a bailout for it not being profitable.

This is just lazy businessmanship.


The thing they don't wanna do already exists.  My extended range hybrid cost less than my last gas car and gets better mileage and the cost of charging it is half of what gas costs and the cost of solaring the roof is half of what DWP charges for green power which they will subsidize.

/could have gone all EV but I'm a cheap bastard
//also fark those guys
 
2021-12-02 1:48:55 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Develop more hydrogen fuel cell cars.
I don't want to spend at least 30 minutes "fueling" my EV at a charging station.


You don't always need a full tank because top off ev at work or at night or shopping mall or smoke break.

/drive over a plate, stop and charge for 5 minutes
//like a wireless phone charger
///someday
 
2021-12-02 1:58:38 AM  
If we get some advancement on the self-driving front, this won't be a problem. The reality is that most cars spend >90% of their time sitting around not being driven. Make a car that costs, I dunno, $150k, can reliably travel a million miles, and then set it loose on the world as a rideshare vehicle. Even with charging time, you could expect it to be in use 12 to 18 hours a day, potentially replacing 6 to 12 standard vehicles. The country's private vehicle count could shrink dramatically.

I use my car for 40 minutes a day. As long as an autonomous rideshare service was prompt and the price point was right, I would have no qualms about ditching car ownership. In fact, get the price point low enough and we can do away with the substandard public bus service that exists in many cities and suburbs.
 
2021-12-02 1:58:55 AM  
drive tiny fuel efficient cars and motor scooters. frickin' idiots driving huge pick ups and SUV's are just pissing money and resources down the drain.
 
2021-12-02 2:08:14 AM  

waxbeans: Or. Stop designing life around cars? JFC.


Not gonna happen. The auto companies, the tire companies, and the oil companies spent the entire post-WWII era destroying our rail system and our public transit infrastructure, changing zoning laws to require that people commute, preventing mixed-use, and generally ratfarked North America to make us dependent on the automobile. The changes required to deprogram our society from the Cult of the Fossil Fuel Car would be nearly impossible without a massive, sustained, bipartisan effort.
 
2021-12-02 2:12:50 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Develop more hydrogen fuel cell cars.
I don't want to spend at least 30 minutes "fueling" my EV at a charging station.


Hydrogen fuel cell cars are just fossil fuel-powered cars. The idea that they are better environmentally or will have a lower TCO is a not terribly funny joke.

I only have to stop and recharge when I am taking a long trip, and then it's probably not a bad idea to take a bathroom break and get something to drink anyway. Almost all of my charging is done at home. And that's true for pretty much all EV owners. Your strawman is getting bruises.
 
2021-12-02 2:14:40 AM  

Monocultured: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Develop more hydrogen fuel cell cars.
I don't want to spend at least 30 minutes "fueling" my EV at a charging station.

If you want to conveniently ignore that most people will charge their vehicles at home overnight and a single high voltage charge gets you 90 miles in 10 minutes, sure. Charging infrastructure isn't just in parking lots, the gas station model doesn't apply, there are numerous levels of charging options that even support apartment style living. The UK even has programs for EV charging in council housing.

Nearly all vehicle operation is less than 15 miles, so EVs make perfect sense for almost every use case.


Not for Abe! He drives at least 800 miles every day, and it has to be non-stop.
 
2021-12-02 2:59:57 AM  
My last truck: 2002 Nissan Frontier bought new $23,500, sold 2017 (stopped driving due to ill health).
My last car: 1985 Toyota MR2 bought new $10,500 burned in a garage fire awaiting part 2002.
Previous truck: 1977 Toyota SR5 bought new $4,700, traded for Frontier.
Previous car: 1975 Chevrolet Vega Fastback, bought new $1,999, great steering but engine block cracked 3 times & GM bought it back for $3000.
Previous car: 1967 Opel Kadettwagen, bought from Sister $500 1972 (turned 16, first car).
Automakers/dealers don't get a lot out of me.

Currently we have a 2016 Dodge Journey that sat on the lot forever & we bought it new with 30 miles for $20k, taxes & tags, incl our trade-in when the 2018s started filling the dealers' lots.
Previous 2008 Subaru Outback inherited in 2013, cost $0 except DMV fees.
Also 2000 Volvo S70 in a free trade with a man getting a divorce who did not want his wife getting it, so he traded for our 2002 Ford Focus Wagon (great car except no center front armrest - go figure. I forget what we paid.
Before was Hubby's Geo Storm(1992?) No idea what he paid for that. He kind of wasn't happy with the Focus because it was a "wagon" & I insisted on practical. We had the MR2 at the time & the SR5, and a Lab who needed room. Plus, the Storm was theoretically a 4 seater but getting anyone in & out of the back required pulleys, lotion & a shoe-horn.

Sadly, Brother got all the cool cars, even my Father's, his step-father. They could speak car together, it was the only language they shared: WW2 Jeep, 1956 Studebaker Diplomat, 1968 Checker Wagon. And, when Mother died her 1967 Cadillac Something (2 door, beautiful but I could never remember the name: Could de Ville?) & the 1951 Sears Allstate Sir bought her for their anniversary so he could surprise her by ordering through the catalog & having it delivered. We all learned to drive it and the "3 on a tree". The other car (besides the Jeep according to photos) at the time was a 1949 Plymouth wagon. In a time when half the population had no car, we had two. Mother having her own was becoming expected status symbol.

We also had, for Mother, a 1963 Oldsmobile Dynamic 88 sedan which sh loved and was her favorite car, but it was hit by a garbage truck while parked one icy day at a Golf Mill Mall and the company bought her the Cadillac because she was getting into it when it was hit. She wasn't hurt but the company just wanted to avoid being sued: they spent about $25k on gifts for her.

Brother also got Grand-Aunt's 1963, shiny black with red interior & a push-button transmission Dodge Valiant. I'd've fought him in a duel for that car but she promised him. He inherited it in 1992. Sigh.

Brother has had great cars: his first was an old Mercury, in a constant state of primer gray and the words "Alley Oops!" spray-painted in red on the trunk. 1963 Triumph Spitfire 1600 he brought back from Germany (right-hand drive). 1966 Ford Mustang Fastback. 1969 Ford Thunderbird sedan with suicide doors. Then he got married and the fun cars stopped until Father died in 1979.

I have cancer. Recently a nurse gave me a dream. She said even though I've voluntarily stopped driving, maybe I could start again with the self-driving cars. It gave me more of a reason to live, bless her bones! I worry my feet may not react quickly in an emergency, but with auto-braking, maybe I don't have to worry so much? My license is still valid, do maybe someday ...? Until then, I'll stay off road; I don't want to hurt someone & bankrupt Hubby when we've spent so many years trying to make sure he's safe when I'm gone because that's my job, to make sure he's as secure as possible.
 
2021-12-02 3:47:30 AM  
They can take their time in the United States, since the infrastructure is not there yet.
 
2021-12-02 4:55:12 AM  
I'd love to convert some of my old stuff over to electric. Ford recently started selling what I understand to be their mach motor as a 'crate motor"  problem is, I don't see them selling a controller or a battery system.   So it's still preventative.       As I've mentioned multiple times, I love updating old bodies, you really should be using the emissionsncontrols when you do it. It be some real FU moments quietly rolling into a car show with an ev 79 T/A or 69 Charger.

Also, I'm not sure I'd jump in on a Chrysler EV. Besides the hellcat stuff they haven't exactly been setting the world on fire with quality for many many yrs.
 
2021-12-02 5:09:46 AM  
Adapt or die, automakers. If you can't figure it out, VW and Tesla and Ford and KIA etc are going to sell their EVs to the people who used to be your customers.
 
2021-12-02 5:39:50 AM  

Marksrevenge: Adapt or die, automakers. If you can't figure it out, VW and Tesla and Ford and KIA etc are going to sell their EVs to the people who used to be your customers.


Screw all them too: I want a Rivian T
 
2021-12-02 6:36:50 AM  

anuran: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Develop more hydrogen fuel cell cars.
I don't want to spend at least 30 minutes "fueling" my EV at a charging station.


Hydrogen fuel cell cars are just fossil fuel-powered cars.


Lol, wat
 
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