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(Deseret News)   US Senator Mike Lee (R-UT) explains overturning Roe vs. Wade isn't about banning abortion, but about states' rights to ban abortion. Same song; different dancers   (deseret.com) divider line
    More: Murica, Supreme Court of the United States, Roe v. Wade, United States, United States Constitution, Utah Sen. Mike Lee, Planned Parenthood v. Casey, Abortion, U.S. Supreme Court  
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718 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Dec 2021 at 11:20 AM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-12-01 10:26:09 AM  
Those states which the right to abortion is in their Constitution, that is still valid, or are we going to see states suing other states for allowing abortion?
 
2021-12-01 10:27:47 AM  
States' Rights
Like the right of a state to expel members of a troublesome cult?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1838_Mormon_War
 
2021-12-01 10:32:08 AM  
Abortion is about misogyny and nothing else.
 
2021-12-01 10:33:30 AM  
Hey, where have I heard this argument before?   Seems like it was bullshiat then too
 
2021-12-01 10:38:51 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: Those states which the right to abortion is in their Constitution, that is still valid, or are we going to see states suing other states for allowing abortion?


that would certainly go against the "states rights" thing, but republicans are nothing if not hypocritical.
 
2021-12-01 10:41:52 AM  
Arguments begin and Mississippi SG Scott Stewart goes straight at the SCOTUS abortion precedents: "Roe and Casey have failed." He says abortion law should be left to voters and not established as a right by the courts.

"This court should overrule Roe and Casey," he says.

- Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) December 1, 2021
 
2021-12-01 10:46:39 AM  

Ambivalence: OtherLittleGuy: Those states which the right to abortion is in their Constitution, that is still valid, or are we going to see states suing other states for allowing abortion?

that would certainly go against the "states rights" thing, but republicans are nothing if not hypocritical.


Well, a woman who travels out of Texas and gets an abortion where she can still opens up the driver to the $10k bounty.
 
2021-12-01 10:47:31 AM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Arguments begin and Mississippi SG Scott Stewart goes straight at the SCOTUS abortion precedents: "Roe and Casey have failed." He says abortion law should be left to voters and not established as a right by the courts.

"This court should overrule Roe and Casey," he says.
- Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) December 1, 2021


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2021-12-01 10:50:53 AM  
Fark user image
 
2021-12-01 11:10:14 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: Those states which the right to abortion is in their Constitution, that is still valid, or are we going to see states suing other states for allowing abortion?


SO, Dred Scott was about the legal status of a slave in a free state.  But the decision went well beyond that and removed all rights from African Americans - even those that had never been slaves.  There is absolutely nothing stopping the Gilead Prophets from just banning all abortion, and even contraception, by fiat in their decision.
 
2021-12-01 11:18:49 AM  
Fat forward to the midterms:

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2021-12-01 11:22:15 AM  
States rights about mask mandate
States rights about guns

Looks like I don't have to pay federal tax if I can get the right guys elected in Illinois.
 
2021-12-01 11:23:47 AM  
Makes a lot of sense to have your rights completely differ from state to state and really what else could "United" possibly mean?

Isn't that right, slavery?
 
2021-12-01 11:24:08 AM  
In fairness to Mike Lee, Mike Lee as an asshole.
 
2021-12-01 11:24:42 AM  
States like Texas who are wholly incapable of maintaining their power grid want to get into medicine and legislating women's bodies because they feel they have some high authority to do so.

If the far left ever truly gets an impenetrable majority they need to curb stomp this "state's rights" bullshiat and legislate basic human rights at the federal level.
 
2021-12-01 11:25:24 AM  

phalamir: OtherLittleGuy: Those states which the right to abortion is in their Constitution, that is still valid, or are we going to see states suing other states for allowing abortion?

SO, Dred Scott was about the legal status of a slave in a free state.  But the decision went well beyond that and removed all rights from African Americans - even those that had never been slaves.  There is absolutely nothing stopping the Gilead Prophets from just banning all abortion, and even contraception, by fiat in their decision.


My instinct is that the end result of this will be that abortion is legal, but states are allowed to restrict it as they see fit, up to and including total bans.
 
2021-12-01 11:25:53 AM  
Once the states can ban it, the GOP will move the goalposts to banning it at the federal level.
 
2021-12-01 11:26:17 AM  
I don't think most of the republicans care about abortion really.  However, it is a good wedge to get people to move.

1. make abortions states problems
2. states ban abortions
3. progressives move away
4. more red states ban abortions
5. repeat #3
6.  republicans control the house
7. republicans control the senate.
8, Dirty democrats and filthy liberals are now just bound to a handful of states on the coasts.
 
2021-12-01 11:27:22 AM  
Yeah, all through the South you can hear talk about "the battle for states rights" mentioned too.
How'd that work out for ya, Johnny Reb?
 
2021-12-01 11:27:42 AM  
A woman is a 3-D printer of men's property. Abortion is an affront to property rights.
 
2021-12-01 11:27:50 AM  
Conservatives have had a pretty easy go at state level government control for a while, while Democrats stupidly ignored it in favor of federal elections. Once they make abortion a state level decision, Republicans are likely going to see state level competition very different than they're used to. At least that's my hope.
 
2021-12-01 11:28:35 AM  
I'd fight a second civil war over this, and hopefully end this stupid "State's rights" bullshiat that has been used to oppress minorities and women since the founding of America.
 
2021-12-01 11:28:47 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Abortion is about misogyny and nothing else.


Also about punishing "the wrong people" and making "the right people " feel smug.
 
2021-12-01 11:29:26 AM  
There's no such thing as "states' rights". If a right isn't universal, it doesn't exist.
 
2021-12-01 11:29:33 AM  
Here's an idea for you Mike: How about we just let your religion "ban" abortions.  Oh, we already do?  You just want to expand that coverage for all of us?  Nah, no thanks--keep it in your church.

Your religion doesn't want you to have an abortion?

That's between you your religion--Throw them out of your church.

I gotta warn you though--it's gonna get lonely in the pews.

The rest of us?

Over here in the adult seats?

Abortion is an issue between us and our god(s), not between us and our State, and the State doesn't get an input, unless the State wants to teach us about sex--truthfully, factually--provide pre- and post- natal care, provide childcare, provide health care and education--complete education--for the children (for everybody!).  Ensure that the children grow up in a peaceful and fair society.

Until then?

STFU.

You and your god can just STFU.
 
2021-12-01 11:30:08 AM  

Mr. carrot: Conservatives have had a pretty easy go at state level government control for a while, while Democrats stupidly ignored it in favor of federal elections. Once they make abortion a state level decision, Republicans are likely going to see state level competition very different than they're used to. At least that's my hope.


Those same states have been using that power to change election laws so that no Democrat will ever hold office again.
 
2021-12-01 11:30:36 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Abortion is about misogyny and nothing else.


For the rank and file nutter whipped into a frenzy by the paid astroturfers? Yeah. In truth abortion is class warfare, nothing more or less. The rich have forking over a LOT of money to get it banned for decades. Anyone who tells you otherwise is an idiot who doesn't see the big picture.
 
2021-12-01 11:30:39 AM  
Mike Lee would have argued slavery is a States rights issue also.
And banning interracial marriage.
And restricting voting rights.
And outlawing gay marriage.
Etc, etc, etc.

He's an asshole who wants to do asshole things.
 
2021-12-01 11:31:15 AM  
With all due respect, Mike Lee is a farking asshole.

/I said "with all due respect"
/It's in the Geneva Convention, look it up
 
2021-12-01 11:31:24 AM  
Yeah whatever.  You do not have a "right" to dictate whether a woman aborts a fetus or not.

You just don't.
 
2021-12-01 11:31:36 AM  

jst1gy: I don't think most of the republicans care about abortion really.  However, it is a good wedge to get people to move.

1. make abortions states problems
2. states ban abortions
3. progressives move away
4. more red states ban abortions
5. repeat #3
6.  republicans control the house
7. republicans control the senate.
8, Dirty democrats and filthy liberals are now just bound to a handful of states on the coasts.


9: Republican US turns into shiathole and people who can just leave for other not-shiathole countries.
I know at least one friend who left the US entirely because of the direction its taking.
 
2021-12-01 11:32:16 AM  

jst1gy: I don't think most of the republicans care about abortion really.  However, it is a good wedge to get people to move.

1. make abortions states problems
2. states ban abortions
3. progressives move away
4. more red states ban abortions
5. repeat #3
6.  republicans control the house
7. republicans control the senate.
8, Dirty democrats and filthy liberals are now just bound to a handful of states on the coasts.


What we're seeing here is an American schism in real time.
 
2021-12-01 11:34:07 AM  

SecondaryControl: Here's an idea for you Mike: How about we just let your religion "ban" abortions.  Oh, we already do?  You just want to expand that coverage for all of us?  Nah, no thanks--keep it in your church.

Your religion doesn't want you to have an abortion?

That's between you your religion--Throw them out of your church.

I gotta warn you though--it's gonna get lonely in the pews.

The rest of us?

Over here in the adult seats?

Abortion is an issue between us and our god(s), not between us and our State, and the State doesn't get an input, unless the State wants to teach us about sex--truthfully, factually--provide pre- and post- natal care, provide childcare, provide health care and education--complete education--for the children (for everybody!).  Ensure that the children grow up in a peaceful and fair society.

Until then?

STFU.

You and your god can just STFU.


Careful now... you'll put them in fear for their lives and they may need to stand their ground.
 
2021-12-01 11:36:39 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Abortion is about misogyny and nothing else.


So, which one are you, anti-abortion or a misogynist?
 
2021-12-01 11:36:56 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: Those states which the right to abortion is in their Constitution, that is still valid, or are we going to see states suing other states for allowing abortion?


No. Because politicians need a place to send their tryst "problems" to be taken care of. They know full well when the time comes, whether it's their daughters or their mistress, a flight to New York, Illinois or California is only a clone of hours away, and a few hundred bucks.

Take that away, and they might have to suffer the consequences of their own actions.
 
2021-12-01 11:37:44 AM  
If the GOP catches the car they've been chasing their evangelical base will have no reason to actually get out the vote.  This is a genie's curse.
 
2021-12-01 11:39:29 AM  

DoBeDoBeDo: Hey, where have I heard this argument before?   Seems like it was bullshiat then too


Utah wasn't a state then, but it was founded by shiatbags who didn't think black people were people (till what the 1970's), and women are more property for making as many kids as possible, and they didn't want to be in the union so they could be farked up sex slavers (almost going to war with the US army over it), so they're on the same level.
 
2021-12-01 11:40:27 AM  

tricycleracer: If the GOP catches the car they've been chasing their evangelical base will have no reason to actually get out the vote.  This is a genie's curse.


For the foreseeable future, they will show up at the polls to fight mask and vaccine mandates.
 
2021-12-01 11:40:45 AM  
If a State can tell you that you can't terminate a pregnancy it can tell you that you must get pregnant.
 
2021-12-01 11:40:49 AM  

meat0918: I'd fight a second civil war over this, and hopefully end this stupid "State's rights" bullshiat that has been used to oppress minorities and women since the founding of America.


'State's rights' are a VERY important part of our protections against government overreach. Be careful what you ask for...

With that said, there are some rights that should be fundamental and guaranteed at the federal level. Reasonable and sensible access to abortion is one of them, imo.
 
2021-12-01 11:41:40 AM  

BizarreMan: Ambivalence: OtherLittleGuy: Those states which the right to abortion is in their Constitution, that is still valid, or are we going to see states suing other states for allowing abortion?

that would certainly go against the "states rights" thing, but republicans are nothing if not hypocritical.

Well, a woman who travels out of Texas and gets an abortion where she can still opens up the driver to the $10k bounty.


Sue who you want under that law. There are no legal consequences to failure.
 
2021-12-01 11:42:43 AM  

webct_god: meat0918: I'd fight a second civil war over this, and hopefully end this stupid "State's rights" bullshiat that has been used to oppress minorities and women since the founding of America.

'State's rights' are a VERY important part of our protections against government overreach. Be careful what you ask for...

With that said, there are some rights that should be fundamental and guaranteed at the federal level. Reasonable and sensible access to abortion is one of them, imo.


The Rights of American citizens cannot be dependent on which State they live in.
 
2021-12-01 11:42:43 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: Those states which the right to abortion is in their Constitution, that is still valid, or are we going to see states suing other states for allowing abortion?


We're going to see more states where citizens can sue someone for considering abortion.  Because they're salivating over that.
 
2021-12-01 11:43:40 AM  
It's going to be interesting to watch the continuing blue/red/urban/rural divide. I wonder what things look like 20 years after what will effectively ab abortion ban only for poor and/or rural people in states dominated by rural populations.
 
2021-12-01 11:44:19 AM  

webct_god: meat0918: I'd fight a second civil war over this, and hopefully end this stupid "State's rights" bullshiat that has been used to oppress minorities and women since the founding of America.

'State's rights' are a VERY important part of our protections against government overreach. Be careful what you ask for...

With that said, there are some rights that should be fundamental and guaranteed at the federal level. Reasonable and sensible access to abortion is one of them, imo.


"Government overreach" is libertarian oogabooga to continue to be exploitative of the populace without consequence.

Be better.
 
2021-12-01 11:45:03 AM  
I say we do what we can to reduce the number of abortions. Increased funding for education, sports and after school activities. Early, comprehensive science based sex ed. Easy, inexpensive access to birth control. These have been shown to reduce unwanted pregnancies and abortions.

Mike it is all about protecting that nascent life. So let's do it. I mean this isn't about women making you feel funny in a way you think is sinful. Right
 
2021-12-01 11:46:07 AM  
It won't stay a state decision.  Once the Republicans control the house, senate and White House they will pass a bill banning it nationwide.  They will eliminate the filibuster to do so.
 
2021-12-01 11:48:03 AM  

Private_Citizen: Mike Lee would have argued slavery is a States rights issue also.
And banning interracial marriage.
And restricting voting rights.
And outlawing gay marriage.
Etc, etc, etc.

He's an asshole who wants to do asshole things.


He's in the pay of slavers. Ok, anyone who is against abortion other than the rank-and-file moron is all about the slavers.

The anti-abortion movement is all about class warfare. The rich, ultra-rich really, wanting their slave labor. They need their slave labor and it's slowly been chipped away over the past few decades. They need "working poor" (aka SLAVES) to work their farms / factories / stores for next to nothing. They despise abortion because it give women, and men, freedom from mistakes. "That dang condom broke! We can't afford to raise a kid. We don't want to raise a kid. We aren't even done with high school!" and with abortion, they aren't forced to become working poor. That's bad for the slavers.

Taking away abortion means that more women will be poor and desperate. They'll be exhausted, running from kid to job and unable to save any money. They'll probably be unable to get an education and escape form being working poor. They'll probably have difficulty getting access to better birth control (more on this later) and will likely end up with more kids, possibly from different fathers. They will be raising these kids "alone" (single parent) more likely than not. The fathers, we'll discuss them in a minute. The moms will be lucky if they get anywhere in life, and their kids stand a better than even chance of suffering the same fate. The working poor tend to raise future working poor, as we've stratified society more in the last few decades.

Taking away abortion means that more men will end up poor and desperate. They will suffer under "dog law" which was a bone thrown to feminists by the slavers. Dog law doesn't really help anyone, I mean if you're too poor to pay you're too poor to pay child support even under the threat of jail. Still they throw working poor men in jail, toss on those jail fees, enriching the rich slavers even further, and the poor kids get even less. Removing abortion also helps create a bunch of fathers that don't want, and quite often will quasi-hate, their own kids. They'll be absentee fathers, creating a whole bunch of psychological issues which will help create the next generation of working poor as well. Even those that bust their butt to help will find they can't get anywhere anymore than the mothers. They'll be too harried, tired, and desperate. They'll be working two or three jobs that pay shiatty.

This is the goal of the slavers looking to outlaw abortion. Fair warning, they've already tipped their hand here as well, they aren't stopping with abortion. Effective birth control is a bad thing for them as well, so the next thing they are going to work on outlawing is many types of birth control.

So let's say it again for the cheap seats, because we're fighting this the wrong way:

ENDING ABORTION ISN'T ABOUT MISOGYNY / MISANDRY OR THE SANCTITY OF LIFE! THE PEOPLE FUNDING THE ANTI-ABORTION MORONS ONLY WANT IT STOPPED SO THEY CAN HAVE SLAVE LABOR!
 
2021-12-01 11:49:22 AM  

Iwouldhitit: It won't stay a state decision.  Once the Republicans control the house, senate and White House they will pass a bill banning it nationwide.  They will eliminate the filibuster to do so.


DOOOM!
 
2021-12-01 11:50:17 AM  

Soup4Bonnie: Makes a lot of sense to have your rights completely differ from state to state and really what else could "United" possibly mean?

Isn't that right, slavery?


This was (well to some extent still is) the situation for every non-heterosexual in the US.

Travel cross country and your rights could change over a dozen times.
 
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