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(Slate)   Prime's new "Wheel of Time" series is no Game of Thrones. It's far, far better. Although, to be fair, by that last season of GoT a remake of "Ow My Balls" starring poo-flinging Macaques would have been far, far better, too   (slate.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Aes Sedai, The Wheel of Time, first episode of The Wheel of Time, Moiraine Damodred, Game of Thrones, series order, Wheel of Time, adaptation of The Wheel of Time  
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827 clicks; posted to Fandom » and Main » on 01 Dec 2021 at 11:20 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-12-01 9:56:24 AM  
Sorry. Can't do it. The first book got returned to my roomie unfinished. Bored me to tears. But if you like it, drive on. We can like different things.
 
2021-12-01 10:10:44 AM  
It was okay. But seemed to have a lot of "I know what's going to happen next" in it. Or I have a strong case of Deja vu.
 
2021-12-01 10:20:48 AM  
Yes, but what about the boobs?
 
2021-12-01 10:57:01 AM  
Vikings is a better version of GoT
 
2021-12-01 11:25:31 AM  

hubiestubert: Sorry. Can't do it. The first book got returned to my roomie unfinished. Bored me to tears. But if you like it, drive on. We can like different things.


You missed out - the first book is slow, and intentionally reads like a Tolkien knock-off because that's what the publisher wanted. It starts picking up halfway through and accelerates from there, though.
 
2021-12-01 11:25:47 AM  
That article was very unconvincing that this show is better than Game of Thrones.
 
2021-12-01 11:38:43 AM  
Hey, Subby...

Fark user imageView Full Size


Yes, GoT Season 8 was a mess, but let's dial it down a few notches.
 
2021-12-01 11:41:58 AM  
My headline was "WOT vs GOT:  less rapey, only one dragon".

As a fan of the books, I can't believe how bad the Wheel of Time is compared to the Game of Thrones for $10M per episode.   Just for fun I watched the first episode of the WOT and then immediately watched the first episode of GOT.

Game of Thrones has top writing, amazing acting, crisp dialog, movie-quality cinematography and movie quality editing. 

WOT looks like it should be staring Kevin Sorbo.  The acting is wooden, the cinematography is bland and uninspiring, and the dialog is full of embarrassing modern slang that is out of place in the story.

Perhaps the problem stems from the books, as George R.R. Martin is so much better at his craft than Robert Jordon.   I've read all of the GOT books but am currently on book three of WOT.  Jordon just cribbed the major plot points of Lord of the Rings and added on some eastern philosophy to create a mishmash fantasy ripoff world.
 
2021-12-01 11:47:05 AM  
FTA: The Wheel of Time deviates considerably from its source material in order to condense Jordan's Tolkienesque fictional universe; the story is so expansive that telling it on-screen without cutting some details would be impossible.

They could clearly stay true to the source material, however only younger viewers should start watching. Gen-X and Boomers simply won't live long enough to get to the end of the 14th book.
 
2021-12-01 11:51:23 AM  

FlashHarry: Yes, but what about the boobs?


None yet, but you get to see Lan's butt (if you're into that)

Maybe when we get to the Seanchan or Aiel, we'll get the boobies, but who knows?

I'm certainly enjoying it.  I wish I knew someone who hadn't read the books to ask them what they think (can't convince my wife to watch this)
 
2021-12-01 11:52:13 AM  

czei: WOT looks like it should be staring Kevin Sorbo.  The acting is wooden, the cinematography is bland and uninspiring, and the dialog is full of embarrassing modern slang that is out of place in the story.


Well, there is a much smaller cast. I think only nine named people have existed at the beginning and some of those were promptly left behind. The 'cast' is similar in size to LotR - fairly tight grouping. GoT had a huge cast and benefited from Dinklage. Try to imagine GoT without Tyrion? He is a huge counterbalance that keeps the narrative balanced.
 
2021-12-01 11:54:07 AM  

OldRod: I'm certainly enjoying it.  I wish I knew someone who hadn't read the books to ask them what they think (can't convince my wife to watch this)


Yeah, I tried to get my wife to watch with me. She only read the first 5-6 books. When I asked her if she wanted to watch it with me her response was 'Robert Jordan? I don't have time for that.'
 
2021-12-01 11:56:55 AM  

FlashHarry: Yes, but what about the boobs?


Yes, all the characters are, but that isn't important right now.
 
2021-12-01 11:58:31 AM  
As a fan of both book and TV series', with WoT being my literal favorite book series of ALL TIME, that article is clickbait. You cannot compare a series with 4 episodes to a series that has already completed it's 70+ episode run.

Is the show good so far? Yep.  Is it hitting the right story points so far? Yep.

Are there 14 and a half more books worth of story to get through in 7 and a half more (theoretical) seasons? Yep. Like this is the easy stuff so far. Kids leave the only home they know, deal with dangerous & unknown threat(s) that culminates in epic fight(s), etc.

How you condense the rest of what makes the story amazing into such a small time frame, yes 8 seasons of 8 episodes is SMALL, is the real litmus test of whether it will better than GoT or not.
 
2021-12-01 12:08:05 PM  

czei: My headline was "WOT vs GOT:  less rapey, only one dragon".

As a fan of the books, I can't believe how bad the Wheel of Time is compared to the Game of Thrones for $10M per episode.   Just for fun I watched the first episode of the WOT and then immediately watched the first episode of GOT.

Game of Thrones has top writing, amazing acting, crisp dialog, movie-quality cinematography and movie quality editing. 

WOT looks like it should be staring Kevin Sorbo.  The acting is wooden, the cinematography is bland and uninspiring, and the dialog is full of embarrassing modern slang that is out of place in the story.

Perhaps the problem stems from the books, as George R.R. Martin is so much better at his craft than Robert Jordon.   I've read all of the GOT books but am currently on book three of WOT.  Jordon just cribbed the major plot points of Lord of the Rings and added on some eastern philosophy to create a mishmash fantasy ripoff world.


I have plenty of criticisms for the WoT show. But, it's mostly OK.

The dialogue is fine, the acting is mostly fine to great in parts.
The pacing is off for the first three episodes, but I'm hoping that slows down and keeps with the fourth episode pacing.
The costumes and set design are pretty good.

The only REALLY bad thing is the effects. Between the weak Mashadar light/texture effects, the uneven Trolloc movement/appearance, the not great Myrddraal appearance, and the super lame channeled "explosions", it looks like the first season of a 30 minute MOTW CW show from 20 years ago.

I don't care THAT much about effects, but I'd much rather they not exist than they be just.. bad.

Beyond that, I actually agree with many of the points of the article. The edge-lord GoT murder porn/straight up porn sensationalism is just dumb. There's a limit to my tolerance for that.
 
2021-12-01 12:08:38 PM  
Finding it drastically better than GoT. But I didn't even really like the GoT books. All through the 00s my book friends were like "Whoa GoT is awesome he just kills people for no reason in brutal ways and it's brutal and brutal and stuff" and I was like "this guy sucks, and is a hack" and then of course they went and made his neck-tatted trailer trash version of fantasy into this big tv series.
 
2021-12-01 12:10:29 PM  

Jim from Saint Paul: As a fan of both book and TV series', with WoT being my literal favorite book series of ALL TIME, that article is clickbait. You cannot compare a series with 4 episodes to a series that has already completed it's 70+ episode run.

Is the show good so far? Yep.  Is it hitting the right story points so far? Yep.

Are there 14 and a half more books worth of story to get through in 7 and a half more (theoretical) seasons? Yep. Like this is the easy stuff so far. Kids leave the only home they know, deal with dangerous & unknown threat(s) that culminates in epic fight(s), etc.

How you condense the rest of what makes the story amazing into such a small time frame, yes 8 seasons of 8 episodes is SMALL, is the real litmus test of whether it will better than GoT or not.


Yep. It has the potential to be better overall than GoT*, but it still has a ways to go to have enough to compare. But if they devote an entire season to A Memory of Light and a few episodes to The Last Battle it'll be far better and potentially some of the best television ever.

*The TV series anyway. WoT is far superior as a book series.
 
2021-12-01 12:10:44 PM  

madgonad: czei: WOT looks like it should be staring Kevin Sorbo.  The acting is wooden, the cinematography is bland and uninspiring, and the dialog is full of embarrassing modern slang that is out of place in the story.

Well, there is a much smaller cast. I think only nine named people have existed at the beginning and some of those were promptly left behind. The 'cast' is similar in size to LotR - fairly tight grouping. GoT had a huge cast and benefited from Dinklage. Try to imagine GoT without Tyrion? He is a huge counterbalance that keeps the narrative balanced.


He was the only character that I swore if they killed him off, I'd quit watching.
 
2021-12-01 12:27:54 PM  
I read most of the books and then trailed off, not bothering to read anymore since it was all the same stuff repackaged. The TV show is better, so far.
 
2021-12-01 12:31:53 PM  
Episode 4 was decent.  1-3 were marginal at best.  With the amount of capital that Amazon has, it's embarrassing how amateurish this show looks.

I don't recall Perrin having a wife in the books and I'm really not sure what purpose adding her in served in this show.
 
2021-12-01 12:32:06 PM  
Until like a week ago I thought wheel of time was a wrinkle in time
 
2021-12-01 12:34:42 PM  
It seemed like something the wife would like so I downloaded the first couple for her. She likes it, I thought it was a weird remake of 'The Shannara Chronicles', so many plot similarities.
 
2021-12-01 12:37:04 PM  
*tugs braid in concern*
 
2021-12-01 12:39:33 PM  

czei: My headline was "WOT vs GOT:  less rapey, only one REAL dragon".


FTFY :)

/Logain, Guaire Amalasan, Raolin Darksbane, etc., etc.
//the false dragons popped up like crab grass for a bit
///s
 
2021-12-01 12:39:39 PM  

debug: I don't recall Perrin having a wife in the books and I'm really not sure what purpose adding her in served in this show.


It makes sense to me, given how scared Perrin is about hurting Faile later in the books

Tax Boy: *tugs braid in concern*


I loved it, in the first episode, that the Trolloc dragged Nynaeve away be her braid
 
2021-12-01 12:40:12 PM  

OldRod: debug: I don't recall Perrin having a wife in the books and I'm really not sure what purpose adding her in served in this show.

It makes sense to me, given how scared Perrin is about hurting Faile later in the books

Tax Boy: *tugs braid in concern*

I loved it, in the first episode, that the Trolloc dragged Nynaeve away be her braid


*by her braid
 
2021-12-01 12:49:37 PM  

debug: Episode 4 was decent.  1-3 were marginal at best.  With the amount of capital that Amazon has, it's embarrassing how amateurish this show looks.

I don't recall Perrin having a wife in the books and I'm really not sure what purpose adding her in served in this show.


The whole Perrin wife fridging thing makes perfect sense in the broader context of who he is as a character, and the internal conflicts that are borne out later in the series.

What I take away from it is that it's VERY hard to SHOW an audience dozens of pages of internal dialogue without having a lot of expository monologuing or soliloquy that would be obnoxious.

This trauma event as part of his backstory is a way to introduce his struggle with his relationship with violence and his nature.
 
2021-12-01 12:51:42 PM  

czei: My headline was "WOT vs GOT:  less rapey, only one dragon".


Outlander: 10x rapier than GoT, no dragons whatsoever
 
2021-12-01 1:03:13 PM  

kasmel: debug: Episode 4 was decent.  1-3 were marginal at best.  With the amount of capital that Amazon has, it's embarrassing how amateurish this show looks.

I don't recall Perrin having a wife in the books and I'm really not sure what purpose adding her in served in this show.

The whole Perrin wife fridging thing makes perfect sense in the broader context of who he is as a character, and the internal conflicts that are borne out later in the series.

What I take away from it is that it's VERY hard to SHOW an audience dozens of pages of internal dialogue without having a lot of expository monologuing or soliloquy that would be obnoxious.

This trauma event as part of his backstory is a way to introduce his struggle with his relationship with violence and his nature.


Throwing down the axe for the blacksmith hammer.
 
Juc
2021-12-01 1:04:42 PM  

debug: Episode 4 was decent.  1-3 were marginal at best.  With the amount of capital that Amazon has, it's embarrassing how amateurish this show looks.

I don't recall Perrin having a wife in the books and I'm really not sure what purpose adding her in served in this show.


I think it let them skip the bit about him killing some other folks by accident and still have the same anguish sorta stuff. Kinda streamlining the story by substituting a few nobodies with a new wife that I don't even think had any lines.
 
2021-12-01 1:07:24 PM  

Jim from Saint Paul: As a fan of both book and TV series', with WoT being my literal favorite book series of ALL TIME, that article is clickbait. You cannot compare a series with 4 episodes to a series that has already completed it's 70+ episode run.

Is the show good so far? Yep.  Is it hitting the right story points so far? Yep.

Are there 14 and a half more books worth of story to get through in 7 and a half more (theoretical) seasons? Yep. Like this is the easy stuff so far. Kids leave the only home they know, deal with dangerous & unknown threat(s) that culminates in epic fight(s), etc.

How you condense the rest of what makes the story amazing into such a small time frame, yes 8 seasons of 8 episodes is SMALL, is the real litmus test of whether it will better than GoT or not.


To be fair a good chunk of those books is recap
 
2021-12-01 1:07:26 PM  

czei: Perhaps the problem stems from the books, as George R.R. Martin is so much better at his craft than Robert Jordon.   I've read all of the GOT books but am currently on book three of WOT.  Jordon just cribbed the major plot points of Lord of the Rings and added on some eastern philosophy to create a mishmash fantasy ripoff world.


This isn't really correct at all.

It's fairly well known that Robert Jordan's original versions of WoT were much, much less Tolkienesque.  It's just that he was writing at a time where publishers wouldn't really publish epic fantasy series that deviated very far from Tolkien.  So he had to make things much closer to Tolkien to get it published.

The books become increasing less Tolkienesque as they go along and more ASOIaF-ish.

GRRM benefited tremendously from WoT coming first.  ASOIaF wouldn't have been published if it was shopped around in the late 80s like WoT was.  It was only because authors like Robert Jordan demonstrating the financial viability of epic fantasy series that aren't strictly Tolkien spinoffs that you finally saw more modern fantasy novels getting published.

So the fact that WoT starts out much more like Tolkien is telling us about the time it was published in, not about the author's creativity.

Also, I think that most people have Robert Jordan as the substantially better world builder.  GRRM isn't anything particularly special there.  He does write much better characters than Jordan, which has always been his greatest strength.
 
2021-12-01 1:07:31 PM  

czei: My headline was "WOT vs GOT:  less rapey, only one dragon".

As a fan of the books, I can't believe how bad the Wheel of Time is compared to the Game of Thrones for $10M per episode.   Just for fun I watched the first episode of the WOT and then immediately watched the first episode of GOT.

Game of Thrones has top writing, amazing acting, crisp dialog, movie-quality cinematography and movie quality editing. 

WOT looks like it should be staring Kevin Sorbo.  The acting is wooden, the cinematography is bland and uninspiring, and the dialog is full of embarrassing modern slang that is out of place in the story.

Perhaps the problem stems from the books, as George R.R. Martin is so much better at his craft than Robert Jordon.   I've read all of the GOT books but am currently on book three of WOT.  Jordon just cribbed the major plot points of Lord of the Rings and added on some eastern philosophy to create a mishmash fantasy ripoff world.


You forgot the braid tugging
 
2021-12-01 1:22:08 PM  

OldRod: debug: I don't recall Perrin having a wife in the books and I'm really not sure what purpose adding her in served in this show.

It makes sense to me, given how scared Perrin is about hurting Faile later in the books


They could have achieved the same thing/impact if Perrin had accidentally killed Master Luhhan instead. Without inventing a female character to stuff in the fridge.

Apparently, Brandon Sanderson brought up the same issue and offered the same solution in the writer's room, but they went with the unneeded character route, instead.
 
2021-12-01 1:24:02 PM  
The show is decent. It's not the same kind of show as GoT, so I don't think that's an apt comparison. I don't love the channeling or the fire eyes dude (Ishamael?) and I wish Perrin would close his mouth when he stands around, but episode 4 was pretty good and I just want to see the story treated well.

I would love to see a good Dumai's Wells.
 
2021-12-01 1:30:37 PM  
Wheel of Time is absolutely awful. It is like a CW show covered in buckets of red con syrup.
 
Juc
2021-12-01 1:31:18 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: OldRod: debug: I don't recall Perrin having a wife in the books and I'm really not sure what purpose adding her in served in this show.

It makes sense to me, given how scared Perrin is about hurting Faile later in the books

They could have achieved the same thing/impact if Perrin had accidentally killed Master Luhhan instead. Without inventing a female character to stuff in the fridge.

Apparently, Brandon Sanderson brought up the same issue and offered the same solution in the writer's room, but they went with the unneeded character route, instead.


sorta weird that they're going out of their way to sorta smooth out the misogyny and race issues of the books and then one of the first things they do is kill a woman written in specifically to die.
What you said woulda worked way better imo.
 
2021-12-01 1:31:25 PM  

kasmel: debug: Episode 4 was decent.  1-3 were marginal at best.  With the amount of capital that Amazon has, it's embarrassing how amateurish this show looks.

I don't recall Perrin having a wife in the books and I'm really not sure what purpose adding her in served in this show.

The whole Perrin wife fridging thing makes perfect sense in the broader context of who he is as a character, and the internal conflicts that are borne out later in the series.

What I take away from it is that it's VERY hard to SHOW an audience dozens of pages of internal dialogue without having a lot of expository monologuing or soliloquy that would be obnoxious.

This trauma event as part of his backstory is a way to introduce his struggle with his relationship with violence and his nature.


Yeah, I'm hoping this is a really quick way to cut out a good half of the "let's go find Faile" storyline. Whenever they get there, have her get kidnapped and then flip to another plot line. Cut back to Perrin hunting her, capturing prisoners who tell him nothing, back to another plot line. One final scene with Perrin and his axe, then running off to save her and we're done with that plot line in an episode.
 
2021-12-01 1:35:58 PM  
I hope people can enjoy it, but I've become too jaded for "boy has unique power and destiny; quests with party to save world" fantasy.  In fact, I'm probably too jaded for a lot of things.
 
2021-12-01 1:41:55 PM  

gnosis301: I hope people can enjoy it, but I've become too jaded for "boy has unique power and destiny; quests with party to save world" fantasy.  In fact, I'm probably too jaded for a lot of things.


Dune should be up your alley then.
 
2021-12-01 1:43:09 PM  

kasmel: The only REALLY bad thing is the effects. Between the weak Mashadar light/texture effects, the uneven Trolloc movement/appearance, the not great Myrddraal appearance, and the super lame channeled "explosions", it looks like the first season of a 30 minute MOTW CW show from 20 years ago.


It is crazy how perspectives can be so different. The effects are one of the things I actually like. I have watched CW shows since the Aarowverse started and these are definetly a step up. $10 million DOLLARS step up, no. Definitely solid though. Do you have a video where someone breaks down what they don't like or something about the graphics? Goes into detail about what I am missing here?
 
2021-12-01 1:48:14 PM  
Mr. Ginz is a WOT fanatic, having read the series multiple times. I tried to read Eye of the World, but i just couldn't get through it. Jordan was a hack, treading the same vaguely Medieval Europe settings with mystical trappings that have been done over and over and over. Thomas Covenant, Sowrd of Shannara, the Sun Wolf and Starhawk series, and don't get me started on Gor.  

There's plenty of room for really imaginative fantasy novels like Watership Down or Carrion Comfort, but the formulaic ones seem to have the market cornered.
 
2021-12-01 1:48:52 PM  
It's far, far better. Although, to be fair


Is it though?

Like not knocking WOT, but as of right now, GOT has had more astoundingly good episodes than WOT has had episodes. Maybe let's see where it goes.
 
2021-12-01 1:49:13 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: OldRod: debug: I don't recall Perrin having a wife in the books and I'm really not sure what purpose adding her in served in this show.

It makes sense to me, given how scared Perrin is about hurting Faile later in the books

They could have achieved the same thing/impact if Perrin had accidentally killed Master Luhhan instead. Without inventing a female character to stuff in the fridge.

Apparently, Brandon Sanderson brought up the same issue and offered the same solution in the writer's room, but they went with the unneeded character route, instead.


I hope that they develop the backstory for the wife. There was obviously some kind of conflict between them that they didn't expand on in the moment. Maybe more flash-backs or some reason to talk about her and what their relationship was.

I could see the Master Luhhan thing, but I could also see the argument that the loss of a partner is fundamentally more in-line with his fear of harming innocents or those weaker than him. But, yeah, that could have carried the weight and equally explained his willingness to run away.
 
2021-12-01 1:55:16 PM  
A rare interview with Robert Jordan explaining how WOT is different from The Lord of the Rings.

Coming to America - McDowells
Youtube djI_ret3S9g
 
2021-12-01 1:56:15 PM  

RoyFokker'sGhost: OldRod: debug: I don't recall Perrin having a wife in the books and I'm really not sure what purpose adding her in served in this show.

It makes sense to me, given how scared Perrin is about hurting Faile later in the books

They could have achieved the same thing/impact if Perrin had accidentally killed Master Luhhan instead. Without inventing a female character to stuff in the fridge.

Apparently, Brandon Sanderson brought up the same issue and offered the same solution in the writer's room, but they went with the unneeded character route, instead.


Yeah but Rafe got to prove how much of a feminist he is by creating a character just to fridge her in the first epsiode.
 
2021-12-01 1:57:36 PM  

LZeitgeist: Outlander


Terrible show that women just farking adore. I don't get it. It's basically a supermarket checkout bodice-ripper on film. I suffered through the first season hoping I'd enjoy it. I love the era. I love the scenery. I love teh boobies.

I still farking hated it.

Then again, I hated Bridgerton too. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
2021-12-01 2:02:17 PM  

FlashHarry: Terrible show that women just farking adore. I don't get it. It's basically a supermarket checkout bodice-ripper on film.


I mean, supermarket bodice rippers are *extremely* popular.  I don't see why its surprising that an adaption of a super popular thing would be popular.

It is surprising that GoT got popular because epic fantasy series are not that popular nowadays.  Fantasy itself is completely dominated sales wise by YA stuff and romance themed stuff (e.g. Sarah J Maas outsells Sanderson by quite a bit), so a genuine epic fantasy series getting front and center was weird.
 
2021-12-01 2:05:34 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: madgonad: czei: WOT looks like it should be staring Kevin Sorbo.  The acting is wooden, the cinematography is bland and uninspiring, and the dialog is full of embarrassing modern slang that is out of place in the story.

Well, there is a much smaller cast. I think only nine named people have existed at the beginning and some of those were promptly left behind. The 'cast' is similar in size to LotR - fairly tight grouping. GoT had a huge cast and benefited from Dinklage. Try to imagine GoT without Tyrion? He is a huge counterbalance that keeps the narrative balanced.

He was the only character that I swore if they killed him off, I'd quit watching.


They killed him off at the start of season 8, though they kept the character walking around scenes and saying things here and there. But Tyrion was a writer-abandoned character throughout 8.
 
2021-12-01 2:09:37 PM  

BorgiaGinz: There's plenty of room for really imaginative fantasy novels like Watership Down


People want shows about people farking like rabbits, not rabbits farking like rabbits.
 
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