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(Ars Technica)   Why the Fark can't we time travel so we can kill Hitler's grandfather or whatever?   (arstechnica.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, General relativity, Time travel, Time, Spacetime, time machine, particular language, dimension of time, Universe  
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784 clicks; posted to STEM » on 30 Nov 2021 at 12:05 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-11-30 11:34:22 AM  
Before anyone can invent time travel humanity has died out, or in the future time travel exists but nobody wants to visit our time because it sucks. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
 
2021-11-30 11:37:54 AM  
Just get Hitler into art school in Vienna.  Have Castro get drafted by the Dodgers.

Problem solved.
 
2021-11-30 11:57:14 AM  
You can time travel today if you want to.

All you have to do is meet someone who time traveled here from the future. And then politely ask if he can bring you with him to some other place and time.

You don't have to know how an automobile is operated if you just want to be a hitchhiker.
 
2021-11-30 11:58:59 AM  
We can travel through time. We're travelling through time right now. By the time you finish reading this, you will be twenty seconds into the future. Will we have flying cars? Who will be the president? Will we wear silver jumpsuits and eat all our meals in pill form? It was once all a mystery, but no longer. Welcome to the future. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
 
2021-11-30 12:05:09 PM  
No need to kill Hitler's grandfather. Just go back 200 years and sterilize him when he least expects it.
 
2021-11-30 12:10:39 PM  

Sawdust and Mildew: No need to kill Hitler's grandfather. Just go back 200 years and sterilize him when he least expects it.


Stephen Fry wrote a novel about that.

Fark user imageView Full Size


SPOILER: They went back in time and sterilized the man who would have been Hitler's father. Result: the Nazis succeeded in conquering the world with some other guy in charge.
 
2021-11-30 12:12:46 PM  

Candygram4Mongo: They went back in time and sterilized the man who would have been Hitler's father. Result: the Nazis succeeded in conquering the world with some other guy in charge.


I didn't say it was a good plan.
 
2021-11-30 12:13:20 PM  
 
2021-11-30 12:16:06 PM  
I mean...we're already doing it right now. It's figuring out speed and direction that's the real biatch and a half.
 
2021-11-30 12:18:41 PM  
Why would we wanna kill Hitler?

We won the war, didn't we?
 
2021-11-30 12:23:19 PM  
It's mathematically *likely* that you would encounter a CTC inside a rotating black hole.  The likelihood of their reality in our universe sort of forces us to ask why they aren't farking *everywhere*.  Then again, space and time switch places inside a black hole, and we're free to move about in space as we like, while being directionally constrained in time.

So there you have it.  If you jump into a rotating black hole, and bam! you are permanently trapped in a time machine that will send you both forward and backwards through time where you will encounter yourself infinitely many times as you get filtered through the donut shaped singularity.

Not exactly a USEFUL time machine though...
 
2021-11-30 12:24:01 PM  

BeesNuts: It's mathematically *likely* that you would encounter a CTC inside a rotating black hole.  The likelihood of their reality in our universe sort of forces us to ask why they aren't farking *everywhere*.  Then again, space and time switch places inside a black hole, and we're free to move about in space as we like, while being directionally constrained in time.

So there you have it.  If you jump into a rotating black hole, and bam! you are permanently trapped in a time machine that will send you both forward and backwards through time where you will encounter yourself infinitely many times as you get filtered through the donut shaped singularity.

Not exactly a USEFUL time machine though...


Oh.  The article gets there literally two paragraphs after I got bored.

Carry on.
 
2021-11-30 12:30:08 PM  

Candygram4Mongo: Sawdust and Mildew: No need to kill Hitler's grandfather. Just go back 200 years and sterilize him when he least expects it.

Stephen Fry wrote a novel about that.

[Fark user image image 425x637]

SPOILER: They went back in time and sterilized the man who would have been Hitler's father. Result: the Nazis succeeded in conquering the world with some other guy in charge.


Fun fact: Hitler helped bring down the downfall of Germany through incompetent strategy, not allowing delegation of authority, and people being afraid to wake him up.

If they had a good strategist, the war would have turned put much differently.

/also who invades Russia in goddamn winter?
 
2021-11-30 12:30:09 PM  

Ishkur: Why would we wanna kill Hitler?

We won the war, didn't we?


Fark user imageView Full Size


Don't mention the war.
 
2021-11-30 12:32:39 PM  
One interesting perspective I read was that although the future is nondeterministic because of quantum mechanics, the past is describable via classical physics.  Things in the past definitely happened at a specific time and place.
 
2021-11-30 12:33:02 PM  
Any efforts in time travel result in being dropped in deep space.
 
2021-11-30 12:33:44 PM  
There are a lot of people worse than Hitler. I'd travel back to 1962 and stop Sam Panopoulos from inventing Hawaiian pizza.
 
2021-11-30 12:34:27 PM  

MythDragon: Candygram4Mongo: Sawdust and Mildew: No need to kill Hitler's grandfather. Just go back 200 years and sterilize him when he least expects it.

Stephen Fry wrote a novel about that.

[Fark user image image 425x637]

SPOILER: They went back in time and sterilized the man who would have been Hitler's father. Result: the Nazis succeeded in conquering the world with some other guy in charge.

Fun fact: Hitler helped bring down the downfall of Germany through incompetent strategy, not allowing delegation of authority, and people being afraid to wake him up.

If they had a good strategist, the war would have turned put much differently.


Imagine 2016 with a competent GQP candidate.
 
2021-11-30 12:34:29 PM  
I went back in time and killed Hatler. Trust me, he was wayyyy worse than Hitler.
 
2021-11-30 12:37:38 PM  
If we go back in time and kill Hitler would that get rid of all grammar Nazis as well?
 
2021-11-30 12:43:19 PM  
 
2021-11-30 12:44:38 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-11-30 12:45:03 PM  
smbc-comics.comView Full Size
 
2021-11-30 12:46:46 PM  
I think the concept of time is humans trying to grasp the passing of entropy. We define it by the decay of cesium atoms, and we've learned to speed up, or slow down the rate of entropy, thereby changing the 'time' that we observe. But the universe doesn't allow for the reversal of entropy, so no 'time travel' in reverse.

Ultimately, humans may remember 'the past', or dream of 'the future', but there is only The Now.
 
2021-11-30 12:50:41 PM  
The reasons really seem random; there is nothing fundamental we can point to, no law or equation or concept that definitively explains why thou shalt not travel into the past.

Why would there be? There's no fundamental law that prevents us from flobbing a jubjub but nobody is puzzling over that because it's obviously not well-defined. You can define it any way you want and, surprise, end up with different unrelated reasons why it is possible or not.
 
2021-11-30 12:54:37 PM  
backwoodshome.comView Full Size
 
2021-11-30 12:56:44 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-11-30 1:01:05 PM  
There likely is, we just haven't discovered it yet. The more you move through time the less through space, and the other way round. That relationship seems fairly tight.

Then you can't move "backwards" in space, unless you just arbitrarily define a forward and backward direction but that's not the universe's orientation that's just your labeling.

If you can find a way to move backwards through space, you can probably make a time machine.
 
2021-11-30 1:21:16 PM  
Are we still talking about killing all the grandpas again? Boy, time travel doesn't seem very senior friendly...
 
2021-11-30 1:45:14 PM  

yuthinasia: Are we still talking about killing all the grandpas again? Boy, time travel doesn't seem very senior friendly...


Actually it is senior friendly. No old people are being killed as they are being killed before they have children.
 
2021-11-30 1:48:53 PM  

Candygram4Mongo: Sawdust and Mildew: No need to kill Hitler's grandfather. Just go back 200 years and sterilize him when he least expects it.

Stephen Fry wrote a novel about that.

[Fark user image 425x637]

SPOILER: They went back in time and sterilized the man who would have been Hitler's father. Result: the Nazis succeeded in conquering the world with some other guy in charge.


It was also an episode of Misfits.
 
2021-11-30 1:49:38 PM  

recondite cetacean: There likely is, we just haven't discovered it yet. The more you move through time the less through space, and the other way round. That relationship seems fairly tight.

Then you can't move "backwards" in space, unless you just arbitrarily define a forward and backward direction but that's not the universe's orientation that's just your labeling.

If you can find a way to move backwards through space, you can probably make a time machine.


BRB
 
2021-11-30 1:49:50 PM  
Well, we tried that when we went back and killed Sofigraunod's grandfather.  You haven't heard of Sofigraounod?  Well of course you haven't, we went back and killed his grandfather.  That's also how we got Hitler.

/Lesson learned
 
2021-11-30 1:50:03 PM  
*beep* *beep* *beep* *beep*
 
2021-11-30 1:50:19 PM  
What did I miss?
 
2021-11-30 2:03:23 PM  
Congratulations universe consumer.

Your Reality is protected by Paradox Protection(TM). No more nasty unintended consequences of Chaos Thery. We live in the Best of All Possible Worlds and it sucks, but it sucks less than a world without reason, rhyme or logic.

I sincerely believe that the weather is not the only chaos to which we are constantly exposed. History is (not Bunk), it is chaos.

Kill one human being and the whole musical game of marriage, mating and dating changes. Without Hitler's grandfather, everybody would have hooked up in a different pattern, perhaps eliminating the time travellers who killed Hitler's Grandfather. Paradox. Illegal game play.
 
2021-11-30 2:03:48 PM  
One of the current theories is that time travel will only be possible to the periods of time in which time travel is invented. Let's say it's invented in 2050 then you can only travel to 2050 and forward.
 
2021-11-30 2:04:06 PM  
Perhaps there are chaotic Universes where contradictions are allowed, but they probably do not communicate with ours or else logic would be false.
 
2021-11-30 2:16:52 PM  
Time is an illusion.  Lunch Time, doubly so.
 
2021-11-30 2:18:37 PM  
Let's say I travel back in time to before I was born.  The atoms that compose my body already exist in the time I travel to.  Is it possible for an atom to exist with itself at one point in time?
 
2021-11-30 2:21:07 PM  
I've said this before: the Earth isn't anywhere near where it was 20 years ago, even on this very date 20 years ago, given the additional movement of our sun and the Milky Way.

We'd have to assume that time travel would somehow be able to anticipate or remember, forwards or backwards respectively, our angular momentum and direction, or we'd be stuck out in the vastness of empty space.
 
2021-11-30 2:21:53 PM  

dildo tontine: Let's say I travel back in time to before I was born.  The atoms that compose my body already exist in the time I travel to.  Is it possible for an atom to exist with itself at one point in time?


One-Electron Universe Postulate

Universe Hears Ya.  Universe Doesn't Care.
 
2021-11-30 2:31:31 PM  

BeesNuts: dildo tontine: Let's say I travel back in time to before I was born.  The atoms that compose my body already exist in the time I travel to.  Is it possible for an atom to exist with itself at one point in time?

One-Electron Universe Postulate

Universe Hears Ya.  Universe Doesn't Care.


So the universe is a honey badger?

i.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2021-11-30 2:33:55 PM  

MythDragon: Candygram4Mongo: Sawdust and Mildew: No need to kill Hitler's grandfather. Just go back 200 years and sterilize him when he least expects it.

Stephen Fry wrote a novel about that.

[Fark user image image 425x637]

SPOILER: They went back in time and sterilized the man who would have been Hitler's father. Result: the Nazis succeeded in conquering the world with some other guy in charge.

Fun fact: Hitler helped bring down the downfall of Germany through incompetent strategy, not allowing delegation of authority, and people being afraid to wake him up.

If they had a good strategist, the war would have turned put much differently.

/also who invades Russia in goddamn winter?


Don't split your forces until after you have achieved your main objectives.
 
2021-11-30 2:37:04 PM  

syrynxx: One interesting perspective I read was that although the future is nondeterministic because of quantum mechanics, the past is describable via classical physics.  Things in the past definitely happened at a specific time and place.


On the macroscopic scale. Zoom in and you run into Heisenberg. You can't say for certain where a particle was and what its momentum was at a given time.
 
2021-11-30 2:52:25 PM  
Let's assume the universe to be a closed system. By traveling back in time, you're introducing energy into the past:

Total energy (1961 + time traveler) > Total energy (1961)

The total energy of the time you left is likewise affected, being lower because you moved some of it to the past.

Something has to happen to keep the energy the same at both times, otherwise the notion of the closed system falls apart.

A logical contradiction emerges, so either the universe is not closed, or we can't travel in time.
 
2021-11-30 3:10:10 PM  

RaceDTruck: Just get Hitler into art school in Vienna.  Have Castro get drafted by the Dodgers.

Problem solved.


That actually doesn't work.

Let's say he gets accepted in 1907, and graduates in 1911 or 1912.  He still ends up enlisting at the beginning of WWI, serves through the whole war, and ends up bitter about Germany's loss.  He still ends up assigned to spy on the DAP immediately post-war and is attracted to their philosophy.

Nothing changes.
 
2021-11-30 3:35:00 PM  
I'm actually typing this from a hotel in DC in 1863, where Russell Wilson and I are stopping Lincoln from being assassinated.  Hold tight.

We'll stop in the 1930s and tell Rod Serling not to smoke while we're putzing around.

I did enjoy the Love Death & Robots episode about this very topic.  ...hated season two though.  :(

//Russell Johnson...
///Redheads are better in general but Maryann > Ginger
 
2021-11-30 4:34:55 PM  
*sigh* one more time.

Particles time travel both ways constantly all the time. An antiparticle going forward in time seen in a mirror IS a particle going backward in time.

But physics is self consistent. To give the classical time travelling billiards example: It is perfectly fine that I should hit a billiard, then a billiard pops out of a wormhole on its left, deflects it right, and the billiard I hit enters a wormhole which takes it back to hit itself. But it is impossible to e.g. hit a billiard towards a wormhole which then causes the billiard to reemerge on a trajectory that will knock it away from entering the wormhole, because this is causality violating.

Note also that you can switch the roles of "original" and impactor: A billiard emerges from a wormhole, bounces off mine, and that sets the one that appeared on a trajectory to enter the wormhole that takes it back, forming a closed loop. In quantum mechanics this would be an example of a virtual particle loop. 

In any case, trajectories (forward or backward in time) that violate causality are not possible for particles. Which means that it's not possible on the large scale either.

Any hypothetical time travel machine could only ever allow you to do what we'd call observe. Any actions taken would invariably lead to the exact outcomes history records. By definition, or they wouldn't be recorded.
 
2021-11-30 4:45:55 PM  
https://www.tor.com/2011/08/31/wikihistory/ WHY we can't prevent the Hitlerian Regime.
 
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