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(Medical Xpress)   Eventually we all end up worm food but some of us have genes that say we'll try dying   (medicalxpress.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Psychiatry, Mental disorder, Suicide, largest genetic study of suicide attempts, Schizophrenia, Genetics, related psychiatric disorders, genetic basis of suicide attempts  
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695 clicks; posted to STEM » on 30 Nov 2021 at 1:36 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-11-30 1:52:31 PM  
A genetic link to suicide is an interesting discovery. I imagine it is really a link to a number of more complex and subtle brain/behavior properties which make those people more likely.

That said this: "Suicide is a worldwide public health problem".... I don't know if I can agree with. Sure, you can see it that way, but suicide can also be a matter of personal liberty. Choosing when to end your own life should be your right. Kinda hard to pretend someone is free if they aren't even allowed to die if they want.

I have no intention of spending my final years largely or completely confined to a bed. I have no intention of slowly wasting away from cancer. And I have no intention of getting so old and frail I can't even wipe my own ass, nevermind fix something that breaks in my house. I don't think that should be seen as a "public health problem", I think that should be my choice.
 
2021-11-30 1:55:10 PM  
FTA:
'Suicide is a worldwide public health problem "

And yet i'm real sure higher on the list is overpopulation leading to malnourished and dehydration as a common cause for us too.
So like maybe ti's not actually a problem right now, when taken in a bigger picture context.


Also if we think it is a gene, then you know, less of that gene around would be the answer to that problem, irght? And so that gene, not breeding itself into the future, is kind of the answer to that problem isn't it?
 
2021-11-30 2:13:45 PM  
What evolutionary advantage is there in having a gene that compels you to off yourself?
 
2021-11-30 2:15:47 PM  

PvtStash: FTA:
'Suicide is a worldwide public health problem "

And yet i'm real sure higher on the list is overpopulation leading to malnourished and dehydration as a common cause for us too.
So like maybe ti's not actually a problem right now, when taken in a bigger picture context.


Also if we think it is a gene, then you know, less of that gene around would be the answer to that problem, irght? And so that gene, not breeding itself into the future, is kind of the answer to that problem isn't it?


Except when the depressed and suicidal are in positions of power, like in Dr. Strangelove.
 
2021-11-30 2:35:56 PM  

elchupacabra: What evolutionary advantage is there in having a gene that compels you to off yourself?


That's not how natural selestion works.

If a gene doesn't kill the carriers before they reproduce, it is not a disadvantage and it is not subtracted from the species' gene pool.
 
2021-11-30 2:37:21 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: selestion



Apparently I have a gene that can't go a day without coffee. Gonna go brew a cup of primordial ooze...
 
2021-11-30 3:16:37 PM  

elchupacabra: What evolutionary advantage is there in having a gene that compels you to off yourself?


Could be a side effect of something else that is, like impulsivity.
 
2021-11-30 3:46:50 PM  
Just crisper tech a fix and fix the gene in the womb.  Or would that be genocide?  To eliminate a gene from the pool?  Or is this good genocide, like the elimination of Guinea worm?

And what are other good genocides?  Asking for a friend.
 
2021-11-30 4:24:52 PM  

AmbassadorBooze: Just crisper tech a fix and fix the gene in the womb.  Or would that be genocide?  To eliminate a gene from the pool?  Or is this good genocide, like the elimination of Guinea worm?

And what are other good genocides?  Asking for a friend.


You probably can't, at least not directly. The gene is linked to a bunch of stuff, so it probably maps to something subtle. Like some sort of personality traits which make numerous different behaviors more likely, probably many of which are positive.
 
2021-11-30 4:28:07 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: elchupacabra: What evolutionary advantage is there in having a gene that compels you to off yourself?

That's not how natural selestion works.

If a gene doesn't kill the carriers before they reproduce, it is not a disadvantage and it is not subtracted from the species' gene pool.


I concede the point, but there's sure as hell a lot of pre-reproduction suicides out there.
 
2021-11-30 4:30:06 PM  

mongbiohazard: The gene is linked to a bunch of stuff, so it probably maps to something subtle.


Actually, that answers my question :D
 
2021-11-30 4:40:14 PM  

mongbiohazard: AmbassadorBooze: Just crisper tech a fix and fix the gene in the womb.  Or would that be genocide?  To eliminate a gene from the pool?  Or is this good genocide, like the elimination of Guinea worm?

And what are other good genocides?  Asking for a friend.

You probably can't, at least not directly. The gene is linked to a bunch of stuff, so it probably maps to something subtle. Like some sort of personality traits which make numerous different behaviors more likely, probably many of which are positive.


So, hypothetically all the people with these sets of desirable traits ALL have the suicide gene?  Or are there other non suicide genes that will allow for the traits?  If there are other non suicide genes, just crisper the suicide gene out, and crisper the fixed ones in.

Problem solved.  Yes, I know it isn't just push "fix it" button.  But, then again, isn't it?  Vary rarely do genes just not do the things they do, without some other problem happening.  Blonde hair genes hardly ever decide to start pumping out green or purple hair.  So if a set of genes gives a certain behavior trait, it should in most of the individuals with it.  Just put the good variants in and eliminate the bad variants.
 
2021-11-30 5:25:17 PM  

AmbassadorBooze: mongbiohazard: AmbassadorBooze: Just crisper tech a fix and fix the gene in the womb.  Or would that be genocide?  To eliminate a gene from the pool?  Or is this good genocide, like the elimination of Guinea worm?

And what are other good genocides?  Asking for a friend.

You probably can't, at least not directly. The gene is linked to a bunch of stuff, so it probably maps to something subtle. Like some sort of personality traits which make numerous different behaviors more likely, probably many of which are positive.

So, hypothetically all the people with these sets of desirable traits ALL have the suicide gene?  Or are there other non suicide genes that will allow for the traits?  If there are other non suicide genes, just crisper the suicide gene out, and crisper the fixed ones in.

Problem solved.  Yes, I know it isn't just push "fix it" button.  But, then again, isn't it?  Vary rarely do genes just not do the things they do, without some other problem happening.  Blonde hair genes hardly ever decide to start pumping out green or purple hair.  So if a set of genes gives a certain behavior trait, it should in most of the individuals with it.  Just put the good variants in and eliminate the bad variants.


No, more like there isn't a "suicide gene". That gene maps to a bunch of stuff.

The gene they're finding an association with suicide - and a bunch of other less sensational and attention grabbing traits - might make certain personality traits more common, and one or more of those personality traits might have something which is more common in those who commit suicide than the baseline population. It could be genes which are in wide swaths of the population in general. Genes also have complex interactions with each other, and this one isn't solely associated with suicide, so there's a heck of a lot more to investigate. If there's a gene which just has a statistically significant association with a trait, like this one, it isn't just that the gene makes people commit suicide - there's likely a whole bunch of complex biological, social, and psychological factors which probably need to come together before any given individual commits suicide.

The human mind is a complex machine.
 
2021-11-30 7:07:42 PM  
Because nothing provides that last desperate straw of hope to a person contemplating suicide like telling him he's genetically predisposed to do it.
 
2021-11-30 7:35:56 PM  

Mouser: Because nothing provides that last desperate straw of hope to a person contemplating suicide like telling him he's genetically predisposed to do it.


Supposing there is "free will", maybe that will give them hope?  That just because chemicals and electrons and signals tell them to suicide, if they have free will, they can " choose" to not suicide.

Now, if there isn't free will, does it matter one way or another?  If the universe is completely deterministic, it doesn't matter.
 
2021-11-30 10:16:57 PM  

Mouser: Because nothing provides that last desperate straw of hope to a person contemplating suicide like telling him he's genetically predisposed to do it.


ih1.redbubble.netView Full Size
 
2021-11-30 10:38:33 PM  

elchupacabra: Bennie Crabtree: elchupacabra: What evolutionary advantage is there in having a gene that compels you to off yourself?

That's not how natural selestion works.

If a gene doesn't kill the carriers before they reproduce, it is not a disadvantage and it is not subtracted from the species' gene pool.

I concede the point, but there's sure as hell a lot of pre-reproduction suicides out there.


You assume we are all optimised to be filled with the most advantageous genetics, which is simply not the case. It has worked out better for the species to have genetic randomness, just in case the environment changes, then something which would be a disadvantage now may become an advantage under the new circumstances, allowing the species to continue despite the potential of major losses. That's why there are a heck of a lot of really sub-optimal genetics out there.

Of course plenty of individuals have a bunch to things putting them at a disadvantage now and under any new circumstances, because nature doesn't give a f*ck about individuals. It actually doesn't give a f*ck about anything, everything is down to consequences. The consequences of some things are that they are still here and we choose to call that successful.
 
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