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(CNN)   Beer will become more expensive because there's no competition in can manufacturing   (cnn.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Beer, Brewery, Brewing, small brewers, craft beer world, aluminum cans, contract customers, Chief executive officer  
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854 clicks; posted to Business » on 28 Nov 2021 at 12:25 AM (25 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



38 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-11-27 10:32:46 PM  
Ball is pulling a Nestle in the Arizona desert. Near contaminated groundwater. Enjoy your Red Bull and White Claw.
 
2021-11-28 12:44:00 AM  
That seems to have an odor of large companies making Ball an offer they didn't want to refuse, thus nut-kicking the smaller craft competition.  Surely they wouldn't do such a thing
 
2021-11-28 1:27:45 AM  
God the entire craft beer industry has gone from black flag to nirvana to third eye blind in a surprisingly short amount of time
 
2021-11-28 1:37:45 AM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: That seems to have an odor of large companies making Ball an offer they didn't want to refuse, thus nut-kicking the smaller craft competition.  Surely they wouldn't do such a thing


It's probably about changeovers on their assembly lines, they create downtime.  These last two years have been absolute hell for production workers.  My factory has been on mandatory 50 hours weeks for pretty much the entire pandemic... except for when we run out of materials.

5 truckloads is likely an hours' run on one of their lines, and the schedulers decided that it's not worth running a line for less than an hour due to all the backorders.
 
2021-11-28 2:05:48 AM  

electricjebus: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: That seems to have an odor of large companies making Ball an offer they didn't want to refuse, thus nut-kicking the smaller craft competition.  Surely they wouldn't do such a thing

It's probably about changeovers on their assembly lines, they create downtime.  These last two years have been absolute hell for production workers.  My factory has been on mandatory 50 hours weeks for pretty much the entire pandemic... except for when we run out of materials.

5 truckloads is likely an hours' run on one of their lines, and the schedulers decided that it's not worth running a line for less than an hour due to all the backorders.


I'm quite sure that's part of it - but the extremity of the price/order differential and the timing suggest they didn't give much of a flying fark about smaller company production runs.  "Hey guys, you're farked lol!" memo out of nowhere isn't exactly, "We're trying to work with you here."  And their major, large customers they will now concentrate on are the very companies that would have an interest in buggering the smaller brewers.  Sounds a bit "Ahem" even given Covid-related issues
 
2021-11-28 3:06:26 AM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: electricjebus: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: That seems to have an odor of large companies making Ball an offer they didn't want to refuse, thus nut-kicking the smaller craft competition.  Surely they wouldn't do such a thing

It's probably about changeovers on their assembly lines, they create downtime.  These last two years have been absolute hell for production workers.  My factory has been on mandatory 50 hours weeks for pretty much the entire pandemic... except for when we run out of materials.

5 truckloads is likely an hours' run on one of their lines, and the schedulers decided that it's not worth running a line for less than an hour due to all the backorders.

I'm quite sure that's part of it - but the extremity of the price/order differential and the timing suggest they didn't give much of a flying fark about smaller company production runs.  "Hey guys, you're farked lol!" memo out of nowhere isn't exactly, "We're trying to work with you here."  And their major, large customers they will now concentrate on are the very companies that would have an interest in buggering the smaller brewers.  Sounds a bit "Ahem" even given Covid-related issues


It's the sad reality of business.

Do you honor your huge product run with Name Brand? A run that almost gaurenteed you can keep the doors open next year?

Or do you do a bunch of small runs that technically have a higher profit margin with Not gonna be here in 2 years Brew Co?

You think Hollywood math is bullcrap? Wait until you see what a lawsuit for "loss of profits" looks like if you bugger your contract with the Name Brands. The numbers they pull out of their ass far exceed the price per item you are making. BeardyMcHobby Brew Co won't have the lawyers or money to majorly impact a factory like a billion dollar company can.

Capitalism doesn't leave much room for things like honor and integrity.
 
2021-11-28 7:00:01 AM  
Oh no! How will the world survive with only 900 microbreweries crafting the same double-hopped IPA over and over again?
 
2021-11-28 8:05:51 AM  
Production process plays a little into the us, too. Instead of your printed-on-steel cans like your big brands (Bud, Natty, Coors, etc) I'm seeing a lot of smaller independent breweries with what looks like a shrink-wrapped label on the outside.

If you're a small(ish) microbrew and only sell a million cans in a year, but have 10 versions, it is smarter to buy a run of blank cans and apply the label yourself. When you re-name your double-IPA for the third time this year, all it takes is a new file uploaded from photoshop instead of a new production run of painted cans.
 
2021-11-28 8:19:50 AM  
I switched to hard stuff a few years ago - I can't drink beer anymore, one can fills me right up. Scotch or Rum with a few rocks is all I need anymore. 1 or 2 gets me exactly where I want to go.

/csb
//never liked IPAs anyway
///but seriously, I hit 32-33 and beer just wouldn't sit well with me. Can't physically do it anymore.
 
2021-11-28 8:21:54 AM  

Bovine Diarrhea Virus: Oh no! How will the world survive with only 900 microbreweries crafting the same double-hopped IPA over and over again?


Poorly?

The US is no where near it's previous peak of breweries per capita. Screw any attempt at beer industry consolidation.
 
2021-11-28 8:27:46 AM  

togaman2k: Production process plays a little into the us, too. Instead of your printed-on-steel cans like your big brands (Bud, Natty, Coors, etc) I'm seeing a lot of smaller independent breweries with what looks like a shrink-wrapped label on the outside.

If you're a small(ish) microbrew and only sell a million cans in a year, but have 10 versions, it is smarter to buy a run of blank cans and apply the label yourself. When you re-name your double-IPA for the third time this year, all it takes is a new file uploaded from photoshop instead of a new production run of painted cans.


I'm guessing this is the reason for the change. Ball can charge a premium for printed cans and it probably barely costs them more to run them. Not as much profit in making plain cans.
 
2021-11-28 9:18:29 AM  

togaman2k: Production process plays a little into the us, too. Instead of your printed-on-steel cans like your big brands (Bud, Natty, Coors, etc) I'm seeing a lot of smaller independent breweries with what looks like a shrink-wrapped label on the outside.

If you're a small(ish) microbrew and only sell a million cans in a year, but have 10 versions, it is smarter to buy a run of blank cans and apply the label yourself. When you re-name your double-IPA for the third time this year, all it takes is a new file uploaded from photoshop instead of a new production run of painted cans.


Yes..  we use 16oz "brights" with self adhesive labels.

It really doesn't make sense for a small brewery to invest in a minimum order of printed cans. Particularly if that print suddenly doesn't sell.
Now you're stuck with several thousand of the damn things.
The only way to reuse them is to do a full sleave flex label.
Far more expensive than SAP labels, and they require additional equipment to apply.
 
2021-11-28 9:18:37 AM  

bark2787: Bovine Diarrhea Virus: Oh no! How will the world survive with only 900 microbreweries crafting the same double-hopped IPA over and over again?

Poorly?

The US is no where near it's previous peak of breweries per capita. Screw any attempt at beer industry consolidation.


I was just being an ass. I love my microbreweries.
What about switching to small glass bottles?  Or is glass too expensive as well?
I really have no idea how the microbrewery industry works.
 
2021-11-28 9:36:04 AM  

Bovine Diarrhea Virus: bark2787: Bovine Diarrhea Virus: Oh no! How will the world survive with only 900 microbreweries crafting the same double-hopped IPA over and over again?

Poorly?

The US is no where near it's previous peak of breweries per capita. Screw any attempt at beer industry consolidation.

I was just being an ass. I love my microbreweries.
What about switching to small glass bottles?  Or is glass too expensive as well?
I really have no idea how the microbrewery industry works.


We do both glass and cans.

Cans are trending with consumers because they're more convenient than bottles..
A semiautomatic 3->4 head canning line can be purchased for around $20k nowadays..
You also have access to mobile canning services.. that come to you and you dont need to invest in the equipment yourself.
Though, if you have the footprint, you're better off installing a line.  The overhead on the mobile services can be quite high..
We're actually upgrading our main bottle line with a bulk depalletizer, and case erector, because that equipment is now cheap on the secondary market..  because cans are taking off.
 
2021-11-28 9:41:17 AM  
media0.giphy.comView Full Size
 
2021-11-28 10:49:24 AM  

guinsu: God the entire craft beer industry has gone from black flag to nirvana to third eye blind in a surprisingly short amount of time


This metaphor made too much goddamn sense to me.
 
2021-11-28 11:20:42 AM  

AppleOptionEsc: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: electricjebus: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: That seems to have an odor of large companies making Ball an offer they didn't want to refuse, thus nut-kicking the smaller craft competition.  Surely they wouldn't do such a thing

It's probably about changeovers on their assembly lines, they create downtime.  These last two years have been absolute hell for production workers.  My factory has been on mandatory 50 hours weeks for pretty much the entire pandemic... except for when we run out of materials.

5 truckloads is likely an hours' run on one of their lines, and the schedulers decided that it's not worth running a line for less than an hour due to all the backorders.

I'm quite sure that's part of it - but the extremity of the price/order differential and the timing suggest they didn't give much of a flying fark about smaller company production runs.  "Hey guys, you're farked lol!" memo out of nowhere isn't exactly, "We're trying to work with you here."  And their major, large customers they will now concentrate on are the very companies that would have an interest in buggering the smaller brewers.  Sounds a bit "Ahem" even given Covid-related issues

It's the sad reality of business.

Do you honor your huge product run with Name Brand? A run that almost gaurenteed you can keep the doors open next year?

Or do you do a bunch of small runs that technically have a higher profit margin with Not gonna be here in 2 years Brew Co?

You think Hollywood math is bullcrap? Wait until you see what a lawsuit for "loss of profits" looks like if you bugger your contract with the Name Brands. The numbers they pull out of their ass far exceed the price per item you are making. BeardyMcHobby Brew Co won't have the lawyers or money to majorly impact a factory like a billion dollar company can.

Capitalism doesn't leave much room for things like honor and integrity.


Nope.  But it does allow for things like warning those customers as soon as you see a problem, and ramping up requirements over time/trying to work with them to see what you can do so you don't piss away future business once shiat calms down for no good reason at all.  When that does not happen, there's invariably a reason.  If this is all about production issues - they knew ages ago - like any other plant fighting Covid problems and shortfalls in transport.  Yet they did it this way.  That is what makes me go "Hmm."
 
2021-11-28 11:40:24 AM  

Cerebral Knievel: togaman2k: Production process plays a little into the us, too. Instead of your printed-on-steel cans like your big brands (Bud, Natty, Coors, etc) I'm seeing a lot of smaller independent breweries with what looks like a shrink-wrapped label on the outside.

If you're a small(ish) microbrew and only sell a million cans in a year, but have 10 versions, it is smarter to buy a run of blank cans and apply the label yourself. When you re-name your double-IPA for the third time this year, all it takes is a new file uploaded from photoshop instead of a new production run of painted cans.

Yes..  we use 16oz "brights" with self adhesive labels.

It really doesn't make sense for a small brewery to invest in a minimum order of printed cans. Particularly if that print suddenly doesn't sell.
Now you're stuck with several thousand of the damn things.
The only way to reuse them is to do a full sleave flex label.
Far more expensive than SAP labels, and they require additional equipment to apply.


I've actually seen that, only once. A Montana beer with a plastic label, on a can printed for another Montana beer. Thankfully the outer label was correct.

If cans will be an issue, I'll switch to more growler fills and return my 12oz bottles to Bayern where they'll clean and reuse them (no curbside glass recycling in Montana).
 
2021-11-28 12:50:43 PM  
I'll be honest, I haven't had a beer that came in a can for at least 20 years. Same with anything that comes in clear bottles. Do kegs count as cans?
 
2021-11-28 12:56:13 PM  

Al Tsheimers: I'll be honest, I haven't had a beer that came in a can for at least 20 years. Same with anything that comes in clear bottles. Do kegs count as cans?


Cans are single use, and cost $0.17
Kegs are owned and returned to the brewery to be cleaned and refilled..
They cost around $120 each
 
2021-11-28 1:06:38 PM  

Al Tsheimers: I'll be honest, I haven't had a beer that came in a can for at least 20 years. Same with anything that comes in clear bottles. Do kegs count as cans?


The Guinness can is far superior to the 12 oz bottles which somehow make the world's least offensive beer unpalatable.
 
2021-11-28 1:12:57 PM  
The stuff I get in pint cans is already 25 bucks+ a 4 pack... come on.
 
2021-11-28 1:25:40 PM  

drewogatory: Al Tsheimers: I'll be honest, I haven't had a beer that came in a can for at least 20 years. Same with anything that comes in clear bottles. Do kegs count as cans?

The Guinness can is far superior to the 12 oz bottles which somehow make the world's least offensive beer unpalatable.


I remember when I first turned 21 I went out and bought a 6 pack of Guinness bottles.

Brought them to my dad's, thinking I was sophisticated, and offered him one.  He laughed and said "all yours".  Without a nitro tap or keg to impart body, it tasted like straight peanut oil.  Terrible.

Day after I hadn't learned my lesson and went to a bar ordering a dirty martini. FYI, I hate olives and had no clue what was in a dirty martini. Only that it sounded cool.  Since I didn't want to waste the money or look like a kid, I forced it down.  Another learning experience.
 
2021-11-28 1:40:15 PM  

drewogatory: Al Tsheimers: I'll be honest, I haven't had a beer that came in a can for at least 20 years. Same with anything that comes in clear bottles. Do kegs count as cans?

The Guinness can is far superior to the 12 oz bottles which somehow make the world's least offensive beer unpalatable.


I tried Guinness from the tap, once. I didn't care for it. I have had stouts that were OK, but I prefer ale.
 
2021-11-28 1:59:02 PM  

Cerebral Knievel: Al Tsheimers: I'll be honest, I haven't had a beer that came in a can for at least 20 years. Same with anything that comes in clear bottles. Do kegs count as cans?

Cans are single use, and cost $0.17
Kegs are owned and returned to the brewery to be cleaned and refilled..
They cost around $120 each


Buy yourself some simple glass growlers. Bring them to your local store or brewpub. Pay to have them filled. If you live in the PNW, you can bring your own growlers to Total Wine & More or BevCo and they will happily fill them for you. You don't need the fancy insulated/carbonated silliness if you're going to just bring them home & stick 'em in the fridge for a weekend of fun.

Cheap, reuseable, saves both you and the brewery some dough, and allows the retailer to buy & draft by the keg.
 
2021-11-28 2:01:52 PM  
*BevMo - I always do that.
 
2021-11-28 2:34:16 PM  

scotchcrotch: drewogatory: Al Tsheimers: I'll be honest, I haven't had a beer that came in a can for at least 20 years. Same with anything that comes in clear bottles. Do kegs count as cans?

The Guinness can is far superior to the 12 oz bottles which somehow make the world's least offensive beer unpalatable.

I remember when I first turned 21 I went out and bought a 6 pack of Guinness bottles.

Brought them to my dad's, thinking I was sophisticated, and offered him one.  He laughed and said "all yours".  Without a nitro tap or keg to impart body, it tasted like straight peanut oil.  Terrible.

Day after I hadn't learned my lesson and went to a bar ordering a dirty martini. FYI, I hate olives and had no clue what was in a dirty martini. Only that it sounded cool.  Since I didn't want to waste the money or look like a kid, I forced it down.  Another learning experience.


Probably "Extra Stout" which is different.  I'm talking the regular stout bottles with the stupid widgit inside.
 
2021-11-28 4:32:11 PM  
The Ball aluminum party cups are my new favorite for gatherings.
 
2021-11-28 4:33:52 PM  

Al Tsheimers: I tried Guinness from the tap, once. I didn't care for it. I have had stouts that were OK, but I prefer ale.


All stouts are ales.

Guinness is an Irish dry stout, which is isn't a style prone to variation so not many examples on the market. You might like their Foreign Extra which is more in tune with most palates (i.e. it's sweeter).
 
2021-11-28 4:40:32 PM  
I remember when 21st Amendment decided to start canning.  They had to rent warehouse space for the minimum order and it took years to use them all.
 
2021-11-28 5:27:54 PM  

Bovine Diarrhea Virus: bark2787: Bovine Diarrhea Virus: Oh no! How will the world survive with only 900 microbreweries crafting the same double-hopped IPA over and over again?

Poorly?

The US is no where near it's previous peak of breweries per capita. Screw any attempt at beer industry consolidation.

I was just being an ass. I love my microbreweries.
What about switching to small glass bottles?  Or is glass too expensive as well?
I really have no idea how the microbrewery industry works.


Bottles are more expensive I believe
They are harder to handle
The crown cap doesn't seal as well as the crimp on a can
Even brown bottles let in some light which can change the flavor
Plus bottles require a special tool to open
Bottles can't be recycled as easily
 
2021-11-28 6:16:53 PM  

scotchcrotch: drewogatory: Al Tsheimers: I'll be honest, I haven't had a beer that came in a can for at least 20 years. Same with anything that comes in clear bottles. Do kegs count as cans?

The Guinness can is far superior to the 12 oz bottles which somehow make the world's least offensive beer unpalatable.

I remember when I first turned 21 I went out and bought a 6 pack of Guinness bottles.

Brought them to my dad's, thinking I was sophisticated, and offered him one.  He laughed and said "all yours".  Without a nitro tap or keg to impart body, it tasted like straight peanut oil.  Terrible.

Day after I hadn't learned my lesson and went to a bar ordering a dirty martini. FYI, I hate olives and had no clue what was in a dirty martini. Only that it sounded cool.  Since I didn't want to waste the money or look like a kid, I forced it down.  Another learning experience.


Are you me? Well, I guess the situations were different. But those are the exact two drinks that I've tried and thought " Why TF would ANYone like this crap?"

I'd rather have a martini served in a glass they don't clean from the previous drink.
 
2021-11-28 6:49:21 PM  

Bovine Diarrhea Virus: bark2787: Bovine Diarrhea Virus: Oh no! How will the world survive with only 900 microbreweries crafting the same double-hopped IPA over and over again?

Poorly?

The US is no where near it's previous peak of breweries per capita. Screw any attempt at beer industry consolidation.

I was just being an ass. I love my microbreweries.
What about switching to small glass bottles?  Or is glass too expensive as well?
I really have no idea how the microbrewery industry works.


Cans let you sell to poolside and beach drinkers, and also mtn bikers etc who toss a few beers in the backpack.
 
2021-11-28 9:55:10 PM  
How about some new containers like foil pouches and lined boxes?
 
Oak
2021-11-28 10:52:44 PM  
 
2021-11-28 11:57:17 PM  
Ppl talk about drug addicts stealing and other shiat to get their fix.

If beer becomes too expensive, I will put every farking crackhead on the planet to shame with my shameful antics.
 
2021-11-29 12:00:12 AM  

uncoveror: How about some new containers like foil pouches and lined boxes?


Because nothing says "Mommy packed my lunch" like a pouch of Coors and a straw.
 
2021-11-29 12:12:13 AM  

AppleOptionEsc: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: electricjebus: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: That seems to have an odor of large companies making Ball an offer they didn't want to refuse, thus nut-kicking the smaller craft competition.  Surely they wouldn't do such a thing

It's probably about changeovers on their assembly lines, they create downtime.  These last two years have been absolute hell for production workers.  My factory has been on mandatory 50 hours weeks for pretty much the entire pandemic... except for when we run out of materials.

5 truckloads is likely an hours' run on one of their lines, and the schedulers decided that it's not worth running a line for less than an hour due to all the backorders.

I'm quite sure that's part of it - but the extremity of the price/order differential and the timing suggest they didn't give much of a flying fark about smaller company production runs.  "Hey guys, you're farked lol!" memo out of nowhere isn't exactly, "We're trying to work with you here."  And their major, large customers they will now concentrate on are the very companies that would have an interest in buggering the smaller brewers.  Sounds a bit "Ahem" even given Covid-related issues

It's the sad reality of business.

Do you honor your huge product run with Name Brand? A run that almost gaurenteed you can keep the doors open next year?

Or do you do a bunch of small runs that technically have a higher profit margin with Not gonna be here in 2 years Brew Co?

You think Hollywood math is bullcrap? Wait until you see what a lawsuit for "loss of profits" looks like if you bugger your contract with the Name Brands. The numbers they pull out of their ass far exceed the price per item you are making. BeardyMcHobby Brew Co won't have the lawyers or money to majorly impact a factory like a billion dollar company can.

Capitalism doesn't leave much room for things like honor and integrity.


There can be no ethics without communism, so it's crazy not to.
 
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