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(Daily Kos)   This Christmas, give your relatives the gift of not donating to an MLM   (dailykos.com) divider line
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1837 clicks; posted to Business » on 27 Nov 2021 at 2:50 AM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



20 Comments     (+0 »)
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2021-11-27 2:59:16 AM  
I worked as an employee for a multilevel marketing corporation (ie not a distributor flogging shiat to my relatives) and was on my first day at the job and the manager was explaining the structure of how distributors sign up other distributors and profit from their downlines' sales. "Like a pyramid?" I innocently asked. "Well we never use the word 'pyramid'" the manager explained. I got away with it that day but it would have been trouble if I'd ever used that word again.

Bottom line is it's a pyramid scam, albeit a mostly legal and very profitable one for the company and senior distributors.
 
2021-11-27 3:39:01 AM  
"MLMers-sometimes referred to as "huns," a riff on the stereotypical opening message of "hey, hun" you might receive in a text or direct message"

Is that an actual thing? Maybe I haven't been hit up by the right people, but if someone texted me with "hey, hun" and they weren't my SO I would be asking how much they had to drink that day.
 
2021-11-27 3:41:45 AM  
Used to work with a guy that was involved with a handful of MLMs. I remember talking to him about a surprise anniversary trip I was planning for my wife and he immediately brought up this vacation club he was involved in and how I should look into it. I politely said "sure, send me some info." Of course his response was, "well how about I give you a call tonight and we can talk about it?" Despite being co-workers, we were not on a phone call relationship basis.

Anyway, I recently found out he died of covid, which is not entirely surprising considering his somewhat recent attendance to local "stop the steal" rallies.

So make any connection to that you'd like.
 
2021-11-27 3:51:08 AM  

TheReject: "MLMers-sometimes referred to as "huns," a riff on the stereotypical opening message of "hey, hun" you might receive in a text or direct message"

Is that an actual thing? Maybe I haven't been hit up by the right people, but if someone texted me with "hey, hun" and they weren't my SO I would be asking how much they had to drink that day.


The only person that says hey, hun to me is the waitress at the diner I get breakfast in on Saturdays.
 
2021-11-27 4:04:52 AM  
How out of touch is the author of TFA? "These people don't get health insurance. They don't get retirement. They don't get paid time off. Or sick time. Or child care assistance."

Yes, MLM scams are bad, but the majority of American workers are not getting any of those things through their employers.

I can only assume that Daily Kos pays by the word because that entire passage could be expressed in a single sentence. I'm honestly surprised the author used contractions.
 
2021-11-27 5:32:16 AM  
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2021-11-27 8:13:14 AM  
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2021-11-27 8:22:39 AM  
I would love to point out to my wife how much more money we would have if she just worked a minimum wage job while the kids were in school, or how much better our quality of life would be if she just took half the time she spends on her "business" and kept the house in a condition that was fit for human habitation.

But all that would do is reduce the chance that we have sex in the following weeks from low to zero.
 
2021-11-27 8:43:43 AM  

BMFPitt: I would love to point out to my wife how much more money we would have if she just worked a minimum wage job while the kids were in school, or how much better our quality of life would be if she just took half the time she spends on her "business" and kept the house in a condition that was fit for human habitation.


Ouch. I want to say MLMs are right up there with "sends money to Nigerian scammers" on shiat I just couldn't abide.  I've got one cousin whose airhead wife has been slinging MLMs for over a decade ("if they worked as promised, you wouldn't be dirt-ass poor, but you are"), but even sadder got her airhead daughter to "hun" around her college dorms and pretty much commit her whole life to the idiocy.
 
2021-11-27 8:58:36 AM  
A few years back, an old friend called up claimed that she was doing the Cutco thing for research and asked if she could practice her spiel on Mrs Clam and me. We agreed, because I figured she had to too smart to fall for that crap for real. She tells about some story about how terrible some knives are and how this guy who later founded the company once found a knife with a <gasp> wooden handle had maggots growing in it.

I interrupted her and suggested that was going a bit far. I mean why would a fly lay eggs in wood? What are the maggots gonna eat? That's not how things work. We went back and forth on that for a bit and she wanted to continue, so we let her.

She finished up and then was like "So, how many knives do you want?"

Mrs Clam looked at each other, making hand gestures. Is she serious or just continuing the role play? I dunno. "Uh none. We have knives. You've seen them, right there on the counter in the knife block."

"No, really, how many would you be interested in?"

"We're role playing with you. In real life we have perfectly good knives. We'll, uh, talk to you later. Good luck with the research."

She never acknowledge the phone call, we never heard about Cutco again, and never asked what the deal was.
 
2021-11-27 9:02:21 AM  

TheSubjunctive: BMFPitt: I would love to point out to my wife how much more money we would have if she just worked a minimum wage job while the kids were in school, or how much better our quality of life would be if she just took half the time she spends on her "business" and kept the house in a condition that was fit for human habitation.

Ouch. I want to say MLMs are right up there with "sends money to Nigerian scammers" on shiat I just couldn't abide.  I've got one cousin whose airhead wife has been slinging MLMs for over a decade ("if they worked as promised, you wouldn't be dirt-ass poor, but you are"), but even sadder got her airhead daughter to "hun" around her college dorms and pretty much commit her whole life to the idiocy.


My mom informed me this thanksgiving that my 51 year old cousin who lives with her mother is currently sending money to a Nigerian "prince" who is coming soon to Momence Illinois to marry her.

So things can always be worse.
 
2021-11-27 9:15:23 AM  
Michael's Pyramid Scheme - The Office US
Youtube lC5lsemxaJo
 
2021-11-27 9:15:27 AM  

TheSubjunctive: Ouch. I want to say MLMs are right up there with "sends money to Nigerian scammers" on shiat I just couldn't abide.


On the plus side, at least I'm pretty sure she is at least breaking even.

But she refuses to do anything resembling proper accounting, so tax time is always fun.
 
2021-11-27 9:27:47 AM  

Rapmaster2000: My mom informed me this thanksgiving that my 51 year old cousin who lives with her mother is currently sending money to a Nigerian "prince" who is coming soon to Momence Illinois to marry her.

So things can always be worse.


I've experienced that one too (on a totally different branch of my family tree).  Pretty much the male equivalent of https://www.wired.com/2015/10/online-dating-made-woman-pawn-global-crime-plot/.  Except my relative killed himself in the end rather than face prosecution and prison for money laundering.  We (partially anyway) knew about it for several years, but there's a point where the only stark reality you can offer just isn't as appealing as fantasy-land.
 
2021-11-27 9:50:33 AM  

Burn_The_Plows: How out of touch is the author of TFA? "These people don't get health insurance. They don't get retirement. They don't get paid time off. Or sick time. Or child care assistance."

Yes, MLM scams are bad, but the majority of American workers are not getting any of those things through their employers.

I can only assume that Daily Kos pays by the word because that entire passage could be expressed in a single sentence. I'm honestly surprised the author used contractions.


OK... so, I was curious, and dug into it.  "Majority" isn't correct there.  The majority of American workers are getting those benefits:

73% of American workers are offered healthcare plans, with 59% participating.  BLS defines healthcare as medical, dental, optical, or drug coverage, and considers anyone with at least one benefit as participating.  For just medical, it's 50%.*

With regards to retirement, 25% have access to defined benefits plan (20% participate), and 61% have access to defined contributions, with 43% participating.  The 72% of workers are offered at least one of the two, and 56% participate in at least one of the two. .

As far as the other benefits:

Paid holidays:79%
Paid Sick leave: 79%
Paid vacations:77%
Paid personal leave: 47%
Paid funeral leave: 56%
Paid Jury duty: 57%
Paid military leave: 33%
Paid family leave: 23%
Unpaid family leave: 89%

A TON of data here to parse.  it's interesting to see how our perceptions vary from reality.  I would have assumed many of these numbers were higher.  
National Compensation Survey: Employee Benefits in the United States, March 2021 U.S. Department of Labor

*I'm curious on the healthcare - as an example, my wife is offered healthcare, but turned it down because it's better to be on my plan.  Ditto for my live-at-home young-adult son, who can stay on mine until he's 26. Are they counted as not participating?
 
2021-11-27 10:22:27 AM  

Izunbacol: *I'm curious on the healthcare - as an example, my wife is offered healthcare, but turned it down because it's better to be on my plan.  Ditto for my live-at-home young-adult son, who can stay on mine until he's 26. Are they counted as not participating?


Yes, because the data set is the number of employees on the health plan divided by number of employees.

The most likely reason for the gap between the two is that they have coverage through a spouse, but actually gathering that data would be way more effort.

For that type of data, you'd use general polling.
 
2021-11-27 11:13:12 AM  
Ah, yes, the preferred "small business" for "entrepreneurs" who don't know basic accounting.
 
2021-11-27 12:22:03 PM  

Izunbacol: Burn_The_Plows: How out of touch is the author of TFA? "These people don't get health insurance. They don't get retirement. They don't get paid time off. Or sick time. Or child care assistance."

Yes, MLM scams are bad, but the majority of American workers are not getting any of those things through their employers.

I can only assume that Daily Kos pays by the word because that entire passage could be expressed in a single sentence. I'm honestly surprised the author used contractions.

OK... so, I was curious, and dug into it.  "Majority" isn't correct there.  The majority of American workers are getting those benefits:

73% of American workers are offered healthcare plans, with 59% participating.  BLS defines healthcare as medical, dental, optical, or drug coverage, and considers anyone with at least one benefit as participating.  For just medical, it's 50%.*

With regards to retirement, 25% have access to defined benefits plan (20% participate), and 61% have access to defined contributions, with 43% participating.  The 72% of workers are offered at least one of the two, and 56% participate in at least one of the two. .

As far as the other benefits:

Paid holidays:79%
Paid Sick leave: 79%
Paid vacations:77%
Paid personal leave: 47%
Paid funeral leave: 56%
Paid Jury duty: 57%
Paid military leave: 33%
Paid family leave: 23%
Unpaid family leave: 89%

A TON of data here to parse.  it's interesting to see how our perceptions vary from reality.  I would have assumed many of these numbers were higher.  
National Compensation Survey: Employee Benefits in the United States, March 2021 U.S. Department of Labor

*I'm curious on the healthcare - as an example, my wife is offered healthcare, but turned it down because it's better to be on my plan.  Ditto for my live-at-home young-adult son, who can stay on mine until he's 26. Are they counted as not participating?


You consider for-profit healthcare "coverage" to be a benefit?

Only in this shiathole country.
 
2021-11-27 1:56:42 PM  
Some people are happy and successful with MLMs

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2021-11-27 9:06:10 PM  
In m early married days, I cobbled together a unique research project that led to the first book on the topic in ninety years and my own Library of Congress designation. Anyway, I was at Kinkos when another guy making copies asked what I was working on. He seemed nice and honest and was older. He talked about a "job opportunity/" At the time my wife and I were poor as church mice. I had a job but I was literally the lowest paid guy on the state employees compensation pool. My ears perked up. I invited him over for coffee to discuss this "job opportunity" after a long song and dance on his part, I finally had to confront him. "This is Amway isn't it?" He got all huffy when I told him it was a pyramid scheme and that while I was poor, I was not an idiot. He grumbled as he left that I was "throwing away a golden opportunity." These companies really do seek out people when they are at their lowest. In retrospect, I'm glad I f'd up his day. I'm sure he thought he was going to land another sucker that day.
 
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