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(Patheos)   While most Christians are taught to praise god and give him the credit for the good things, many don't question him or confront him when bad stuff happens   (friendlyatheist.patheos.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Free will, Pew Research Center, United States, Ontology, God, Religion, Spirituality, Metaphysics  
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2766 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Nov 2021 at 6:05 AM (11 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-11-24 9:12:58 PM  
Until I was 18, I went to church every single Sunday. My dad was a  very devout Conservative Baptist, and he would often say 'You live under MY house you go to church and worship whoever I tell you to'

But anyway, the line of thinking was 'Praise god for the blessings (even if you, yourself worked your ass off for them), but never question god as that was seen as a 'lack of faith' and was a sin

If something bad happened, it was because it 'was god's will', and leave it at that

/Be told what to think, but not how to think
 
2021-11-24 9:15:17 PM  
While most Christians are taught to praise god and give him the credit for the good things, many don't question him or confront him when bad stuff happens


He/She/It is a jealous God. Don't piss He/She/It off.
 
2021-11-24 9:26:12 PM  
In the '70s, I heard a lot of HS Fundagelicals rectite "I offer this pain up t the Lord."
WTF is he gonna do with it?  The MFr was crucified FFS, your hangnail is nothing!
 
2021-11-24 9:36:18 PM  
I've brought that up a few times. They say God created literally everything. "So he created sin and evil?" "Well no, Satan and free will caused that." "Yea, but who created Satan and free will while knowing exactly what would happen by doing so?" Then I get a lot of goalpost shifting.

But another way: If a car manufacturer unknowingly creates a shiatty, broken vehicle, the manufacturer is blamed. If a pharmaceutical company unknowingly creates a bad drug, the pharmaceutical company is blamed. But a deity, who knowingly creates the most evil and malevolent force in the universe, gets a forever mulligan? It's BS.
 
2021-11-24 9:41:46 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-11-24 9:48:54 PM  
My favorite is when God saves someone in a plane crash.  fark those other people who died, though.

God's kind of a Dick.
 
2021-11-24 9:56:20 PM  

scottydoesntknow: I've brought that up a few times. They say God created literally everything. "So he created sin and evil?" "Well no, Satan and free will caused that." "Yea, but who created Satan and free will while knowing exactly what would happen by doing so?" Then I get a lot of goalpost shifting.

But another way: If a car manufacturer unknowingly creates a shiatty, broken vehicle, the manufacturer is blamed. If a pharmaceutical company unknowingly creates a bad drug, the pharmaceutical company is blamed. But a deity, who knowingly creates the most evil and malevolent force in the universe, gets a forever mulligan? It's BS.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-11-24 9:58:40 PM  
Look it's fall, the football season.

The dude is busy looking over completed passes and a field goals.
 
2021-11-24 11:41:28 PM  

scottydoesntknow: I've brought that up a few times. They say God created literally everything. "So he created sin and evil?"


As you know, there are couple of common responses to this1: First, people who believe in free will basically argue through myriad contortions that God created conditions that make the occurrence of evil inevitable, but because he the evil happens through an intermediary agent or two, he's totally off the hook. It's like Batman Begins: Batman tells Officer Gordon to destroy the monorail track, Gordon does, and then the monorail crashes off and Batman tells Ra's al Ghul "I won't kill you, but I'm not going to save you." Dude, you literally provided both the means and the command that led to his death. You killed him. There are other ways of killing someone than punching their head off.

The second response comes from the Calvinists, who will tell you, "Sure, God created evil, but it's good that he did because good is whatever God wants and he wanted to, and if that doesn't make sense fark you, God doesn't have to explain himself to you."

[1] Well, more, but it's not as snarky if I add nuance.
 
2021-11-25 1:16:08 AM  
Faith being tested is a trope that predates Christianity, Subby.
 
2021-11-25 5:24:56 AM  
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. 
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. 
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? 
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

TL:DNR: Either He does all this shiat to us on purpose, or he isn't God. Either way, I'm not worshipping an asshole like that.
 
2021-11-25 6:09:24 AM  
Job is a book of the Bible for a reason.
 
2021-11-25 6:10:46 AM  
The same people who think abstinence prevents pregnancy but that Mary was a virgin?
 
2021-11-25 6:10:59 AM  
My dad was a Conservative Baptist"

Redundant?
 
2021-11-25 6:11:00 AM  

scottydoesntknow: I've brought that up a few times. They say God created literally everything. "So he created sin and evil?" "Well no, Satan and free will caused that." "Yea, but who created Satan and free will while knowing exactly what would happen by doing so?" Then I get a lot of goalpost shifting.

But another way: If a car manufacturer unknowingly creates a shiatty, broken vehicle, the manufacturer is blamed. If a pharmaceutical company unknowingly creates a bad drug, the pharmaceutical company is blamed. But a deity, who knowingly creates the most evil and malevolent force in the universe, gets a forever mulligan? It's BS.


When you believe that God gatekeeps the passage to an eternally blissful afterlife, you have to make accomodations for his murdery and jealousy and that sort of thing. After all, you don't want to go to the bad place.
 
2021-11-25 6:12:45 AM  

optikeye: Look it's fall, the football season.

The dude is busy looking over completed passes and a field goals.


th.bing.comView Full Size


WRONG!
He's a hockey fan.
 
151 [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2021-11-25 6:14:54 AM  

scottydoesntknow: I've brought that up a few times. They say God created literally everything. "So he created sin and evil?" "Well no, Satan and free will caused that." "Yea, but who created Satan and free will while knowing exactly what would happen by doing so?" Then I get a lot of goalpost shifting.

But another way: If a car manufacturer unknowingly creates a shiatty, broken vehicle, the manufacturer is blamed. If a pharmaceutical company unknowingly creates a bad drug, the pharmaceutical company is blamed. But a deity, who knowingly creates the most evil and malevolent force in the universe, gets a forever mulligan? It's BS.


I was raised Catholic, Sunday school, church every Sunday, all that. Went to a Catholic high school. Pretty much half Jesuit priests and half regular people as teachers. Sophomore year, theology (taught about Christianity but also other religions), father friar (the irony is not lost). "90% of the Bible is bullshiat. It's just a guide to how to live your life as a good person"

A Jesuit priest told me this. That's when I started thinking for myself, with regards to religion, faith, etc.

/Also learned how to say "what is the name of your goat" in Hindi from brother Boynton that year
 
151 [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2021-11-25 6:16:09 AM  

TuckFrump: Until I was 18, I went to church every single Sunday. My dad was a  very devout Conservative Baptist, and he would often say 'You live under MY house you go to church and worship whoever I tell you to'

But anyway, the line of thinking was 'Praise god for the blessings (even if you, yourself worked your ass off for them), but never question god as that was seen as a 'lack of faith' and was a sin

If something bad happened, it was because it 'was god's will', and leave it at that

/Be told what to think, but not how to think


And now I'll quote the comment I actually tried to quote. Not sure what happened there.
 
2021-11-25 6:16:34 AM  
I just like how their villains have such fuzzy histories.

Lucifer was mentioned in the bible... as a Babyloonian king who isn't special enough to get any status when he's dead. Also Lucifer is the original angel fallen from God's grace, according to medieval fanfic poets Milton and Dante... but not at all recognized by the church.

And Satan. That guy was a type of angel (and not an individual) in early texts, but somehow became a specific biblical character in the new testament.
 
2021-11-25 6:17:45 AM  
When things are going poorly, it's impossible to punch an imaginary being, so people of faith take their shiat out on fellow humans.
 
2021-11-25 6:19:03 AM  
Life is easier without an invisible sky wizard.

I was born and raised in the cult of Scientology. (Been out for almost 13 years.) God has never factored into my life. What a weird concept. Scientology isn't weird, it's downright sickening.
 
2021-11-25 6:19:18 AM  
It's God's Fault We Lost the Game | CH Shorts
Youtube 9dMSvXE9Gxw
 
2021-11-25 6:21:34 AM  
Many years ago, I was having a conversation in the middle of the night with my aunt (we're both insomniacs, and I was visiting her family).  She was raised Jehovas Witness, but she and my uncle became Evangelical Christians after my uncle had an affair, and even moved from New Jersey to far western Virginia

But they also have an autistic, gender fluid, and they claim schizophrenic son that they see as either a test from god, or a punishment from god, but not as a human who needs help.

That night, I mentioned that I saw the 'God works in mysterious ways' argument as being equivalent to 'he beats me because he loves me'

... so now she insists she's praying harder for me

/I think that was also the weekend when my uncle quizzed my other cousin (an atheist at the time) on what to do if everyone disappeared and he was 'left behind'
//but that cousin went to Liberty University and said he was no longer an atheist
///haven't seen any of them since 2018 or 2019 so no idea what the current state of things is
 
2021-11-25 6:27:15 AM  
I don't blame anyone for my transgressions ... but thanks, Obama
 
2021-11-25 6:28:41 AM  
What has always baffled me is why *MUST* the God of the Abrahamic religions be benevolent?

If you actually read the source documents, he comes off as a malevolent asshole quite a lot.   He wipes out a couple of cities because they caught teh ghey.  Prior to that, he wiped out nearly all of humanity, and billions of innocent land dwelling creatures in a giant flood, because they didn't worship him like he wanted.   And when people tried to get closer to him by building an immense tower, he makes it so they can't communicate with each other.  He tells an ardent worshipper of his that he must sacrifice his own son, only to say "Psyche!" when it appears he's going to actually do it.

And while those may just be stories, the untold deaths in the wars and other violence carried out in his name over the millennia are all too real.

So I submit that the good things that happen to people are likely because God/Yahweh/Allah away too busy farking over other people, a kind of benign neglect, whereas the bad this are due direct to his influence.

And that's just as valid a viewpoint as that held by adherents of the lamestream religions.

Your God Is A Malevolent Asshole.
 
2021-11-25 6:35:13 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-11-25 6:36:32 AM  
These people are mentally ill. What did you expect? Rationality?
 
2021-11-25 6:40:03 AM  
... they just make shiat up to fit their narrative.
 
2021-11-25 6:44:49 AM  
You never hear about the prayers of the drowned sailors
 
2021-11-25 6:47:29 AM  
If Satan is so powerful then god is not omnipotent as many folks claim.
 
2021-11-25 6:50:04 AM  

scottydoesntknow: I've brought that up a few times. They say God created literally everything. "So he created sin and evil?" "Well no, Satan and free will caused that." "Yea, but who created Satan and free will while knowing exactly what would happen by doing so?" Then I get a lot of goalpost shifting.

But another way: If a car manufacturer unknowingly creates a shiatty, broken vehicle, the manufacturer is blamed. If a pharmaceutical company unknowingly creates a bad drug, the pharmaceutical company is blamed. But a deity, who knowingly creates the most evil and malevolent force in the universe, gets a forever mulligan? It's BS.


miro.medium.comView Full Size
 
2021-11-25 7:08:06 AM  
I'm not a big fan of this, "all a part of God's plan" thing. Especially with all these numbskull followers and grifters espousing such in the world today.
 
2021-11-25 7:10:49 AM  

starsrift: scottydoesntknow: I've brought that up a few times. They say God created literally everything. "So he created sin and evil?" "Well no, Satan and free will caused that." "Yea, but who created Satan and free will while knowing exactly what would happen by doing so?" Then I get a lot of goalpost shifting.

But another way: If a car manufacturer unknowingly creates a shiatty, broken vehicle, the manufacturer is blamed. If a pharmaceutical company unknowingly creates a bad drug, the pharmaceutical company is blamed. But a deity, who knowingly creates the most evil and malevolent force in the universe, gets a forever mulligan? It's BS.

When you believe that God gatekeeps the passage to an eternally blissful afterlife, you have to make accomodations for his murdery and jealousy and that sort of thing. After all, you don't want to go to the bad place.


I think the predominant cute is not that God keeps us from eternal life but that we do. Kinda like your friend coming over and going "hey, let's go to the preds game with all our friends" and instead saying "naa, I'll sit here alone with my phone for eternity."
 
2021-11-25 7:18:29 AM  
The title reminds me of a history lesson from a streamer. When Roman victors had parades, a shave walked behind them and whispered "remember you are mortal" in their ear so they didn't get too full of themselves (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auriga​_(​slave) ).

Could be tied to human inability to judge uncertainty. The alternative to "don't take full credit for the good and accept the bad" is "everything has simple causes". Ie "If it's good, I did it all. If it's bad, there was a conspiracy".  You can see how this causes problems *cloth* qanon *cough*
 
2021-11-25 7:18:45 AM  
Born again Christian here to say it's cute when people take the Bible literally. And by cute, I mean stupid.
 
2021-11-25 7:22:05 AM  

dittybopper: What has always baffled me is why *MUST* the God of the Abrahamic religions be benevolent?

If you actually read the source documents, he comes off as a malevolent asshole quite a lot.   He wipes out a couple of cities because they caught teh ghey.  Prior to that, he wiped out nearly all of humanity, and billions of innocent land dwelling creatures in a giant flood, because they didn't worship him like he wanted.   And when people tried to get closer to him by building an immense tower, he makes it so they can't communicate with each other.  He tells an ardent worshipper of his that he must sacrifice his own son, only to say "Psyche!" when it appears he's going to actually do it.

And while those may just be stories, the untold deaths in the wars and other violence carried out in his name over the millennia are all too real.

So I submit that the good things that happen to people are likely because God/Yahweh/Allah away too busy farking over other people, a kind of benign neglect, whereas the bad this are due direct to his influence.

And that's just as valid a viewpoint as that held by adherents of the lamestream religions.

Your God Is A Malevolent Asshole.


Sodom and Gomorrah   had nothing to do with the ghey

They were not welcoming or kind to foreigners in their midst

You know how like when Zeus visited cities and smites them when he was not welcomed in as a traveler etc.

The entire bible is rehashing old Greek and other lore. None of it is original in anyway
 
2021-11-25 7:22:28 AM  
An interesting question related to the posts about omnipotence is, if God exercised his omnipotence to maintain a perfect world, would humans still have free will?
 
2021-11-25 7:24:09 AM  

anuran: scottydoesntknow: 

[miro.medium.com image 850x476]


Reminds me of a Carlin quote. " 'Well, I guess it's a mystery!'
 
2021-11-25 7:35:42 AM  
Oneiros:

Worshipping Trump
 
2021-11-25 7:36:21 AM  

fragMasterFlash: Faith being tested is a trope that predates Christianity, Subby.


If it's Christianity, it's bullshiat from made up stories about invisible sky wizards.

Anyone look at the Eastern, non-Abrahamic religions and how they view it?
 
2021-11-25 7:39:09 AM  

From Philly to Boston: anuran: scottydoesntknow: 

[miro.medium.com image 850x476]

Reminds me of a Carlin quote. " 'Well, I guess it's a mystery!'


christian athletes
Youtube lXV0VKX2m6Q
 
2021-11-25 7:42:24 AM  

gyorg: An interesting question related to the posts about omnipotence is, if God exercised his omnipotence to maintain a perfect world, would humans still have free will?


Do you only find perfection in stasis?

One might argue that God's ability to predict the future already states that there is no free will, and that (as far as God is concerned), time is effectively a fifth space dimension. It's effectively already happened and can't be changed. The universe is a pretty five-dimensional gem that he wears when he's going clubbing.
 
2021-11-25 7:46:24 AM  
Did something bad happen? God testing our faith.
Did something good happen? Satan tempting us.

/ christian logic
 
2021-11-25 7:47:56 AM  
Monotheistic religions attribute all good things to their god, and all bad things to other forces. This makes their god seem weak, or an asshole. Pantheistic religions have both good and bad gods, so shiat happening is just part of the natural order.
 
2021-11-25 7:49:30 AM  

Badmoodman: While most Christians are taught to praise god and give him the credit for the good things, many don't question him or confront him when bad stuff happens


He/She/It is a jealous God. Don't piss He/She/It off.


He/She/It can bite my hairy, lily-white ass.
 
2021-11-25 7:51:37 AM  

starsrift: scottydoesntknow: I've brought that up a few times. They say God created literally everything. "So he created sin and evil?" "Well no, Satan and free will caused that." "Yea, but who created Satan and free will while knowing exactly what would happen by doing so?" Then I get a lot of goalpost shifting.

But another way: If a car manufacturer unknowingly creates a shiatty, broken vehicle, the manufacturer is blamed. If a pharmaceutical company unknowingly creates a bad drug, the pharmaceutical company is blamed. But a deity, who knowingly creates the most evil and malevolent force in the universe, gets a forever mulligan? It's BS.

When you believe that God gatekeeps the passage to an eternally blissful afterlife, you have to make accomodations for his murdery and jealousy and that sort of thing. After all, you don't want to go to the bad place.


I don't know, I'd like to meet Ted Danson.
 
2021-11-25 7:55:20 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: [Fark user image image 376x204]
[Fark user image image 500x245]


Hey, if your god killed off Winona Ryder at her peak hotness, you'd renounce him too.
 
2021-11-25 7:57:24 AM  

janzee: I'm not a big fan of this, "all a part of God's plan" thing. Especially with all these numbskull followers and grifters espousing such in the world today.


They sound like QAnon nutters, or people who thought Mueller would lead to Trump's arrest.
 
2021-11-25 8:08:02 AM  
Just remember. I'm referencing the long game here. When it is all over and ready to reboot, the smoke clears, and a man steps from the shadows and says he knows God and can help you get to know him.

Kill that man with spears.
 
2021-11-25 8:11:09 AM  

AuralArgument: Oneiros:

Worshipping Trump


True.  I got into way too many late night philosophical discussions my uncle and step-father (a retired army chaplain, who used to be a never-trumper but quickly changed into a trump apologist then supporter).

The sad thing is that my uncle is a paramedic, and yet he and my aunt were anti-mask idiots who argued things like how humans are '99.5% immune' to it.  (Secondhand knowledge from my autistic cousin). '0.5% mortality rate' does not mean the others are 'immune' unless you've got some farked up definition of 'immune' that includes asymptomatic spread, pneumonia, long Covid, and a life of organ damage.

My aunt said she can't breathe in a mask.  She never responded back when I told her to get tested for covid, as decreased lung function was a symptom.
 
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