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(NBC Sports)   Are you a professional baseball player up for arbitration or some free agency? I hope you get that new contract sorted out before Dec 1st   (mlb.nbcsports.com) divider line
28
    More: Unlikely, Major League Baseball, upcoming deadline, players' union, labor dispute, NEW YORK, tender deadline, sport's collective bargaining agreement, Trade union  
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888 clicks; posted to Sports » on 24 Nov 2021 at 11:05 PM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



28 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
puffy999 [TotalFark]
2021-11-24 11:22:54 PM  
It's gonna be a farking mess.
 
Stud Gerbil
2021-11-25 12:20:17 AM  
good timing, guys.   reminder that it's on the owners.   it's always on the owners.
 
puffy999 [TotalFark]
2021-11-25 12:33:12 AM  

Stud Gerbil: good timing, guys.   reminder that it's on the owners.   it's always on the owners.


90%.

The players get some blame because they could very easily work some negotiations which provide more to Minor League players at the slight sacrifice of big individual salaries if nothing else. Baseball in the USA needs the minors, the local teams, and both owners and players have ignored that.

It's not like the NFLPA which sold out the rookies several years ago during their CBA, as at least baseball *does* have decent contracts for the little guys at the MLB level. But you gotta spend more on the up and comers.
 
Peter von Nostrand
2021-11-25 1:12:51 AM  
You know what baseball needs...

a commissioner that doesn't hate the f'n game.
 
puffy999 [TotalFark]
2021-11-25 1:24:46 AM  

Peter von Nostrand: You know what baseball needs...

a commissioner that doesn't hate the f'n game.


This one hates the players AND the game.
 
UNC_Samurai
2021-11-25 5:30:12 AM  

Peter von Nostrand: You know what baseball needs...

a commissioner that doesn't hate the f'n game.


Or one that's not a puppet of the owners.  Fay Vincent dared to challenge them during the 1990 lockout, so the owners retaliated and destroyed whatever independent authority the office possessed.
 
kdawg7736 [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2021-11-25 6:48:57 AM  
I don't think MLB has had lockouts before, just strikes.
 
Dead for Tax Reasons
2021-11-25 8:47:27 AM  

UNC_Samurai: Peter von Nostrand: You know what baseball needs...

a commissioner that doesn't hate the f'n game.

Or one that's not a puppet of the owners.  Fay Vincent dared to challenge them during the 1990 lockout, so the owners retaliated and destroyed whatever independent authority the office possessed.


why would the owners hire someone that might not act 100% in their interests.  the position warn born out of the need to appear impartial, but that time has long since passed
 
Dead for Tax Reasons
2021-11-25 8:53:23 AM  

kdawg7736: I don't think MLB has had lockouts before, just strikes.


strikes - 1972, 1980, 1981, 1985, 1994-5
lockouts - 1973, 1975, 1990

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/mlb-free-agents-labor-dispute-history-1994-1981-strike-1990-lockout-marvin-miller-mlbpa/lhl6crvxn0ya1xrc5n9m915xf
 
ClavellBCMI [OhFark]
2021-11-25 8:57:04 AM  
The owners will *not* agree to any new player contracts... until/unless the MLBPA knuckles under and gives the owners what they want.
 
Lifeless
2021-11-25 8:57:34 AM  
One day, they'll take this shiat to the brink one time too many and people will decide that professional baseball isn't worth saving.
 
SirDigbyChickenCaesar
2021-11-25 9:14:06 AM  

puffy999: It's not like the NFLPA which sold out the rookies several years ago during their CBA


Sold out the rookies?  Everyone, Owners and Vets alike hated that a first round pick that had never played a game was making more than 75% of the roster.

The last year of that structure Sam Bradford got $80 million.  His cap hit was the third highest on the team.
 
ZMugg [TotalFark]
2021-11-25 10:17:23 AM  

Lifeless: One day, they'll take this shiat to the brink one time too many and people will decide that professional baseball isn't worth saving.


2042 isn't that far away.
 
rightClick [OhFark]
2021-11-25 12:12:08 PM  

ClavellBCMI: The owners will *not* agree to any new player contracts... until/unless the MLBPA knuckles under and gives the owners what they want.


all players subject to arbitration until their 36th birthday.
 
Gubbo [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2021-11-25 12:31:11 PM  

UNC_Samurai: Peter von Nostrand: You know what baseball needs...

a commissioner that doesn't hate the f'n game.

Or one that's not a puppet of the owners.  Fay Vincent dared to challenge them during the 1990 lockout, so the owners retaliated and destroyed whatever independent authority the office possessed.


The only way to be Commissioner of a sports league in the modern era is to agree to be the owners biatch. It's the entire job. Take all the blame for the things that they want, and get rewarded handsomely while doing it.

/bonus millions if you can negotiate a good tv deal
 
Gubbo [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2021-11-25 12:32:17 PM  

puffy999: Stud Gerbil: good timing, guys.   reminder that it's on the owners.   it's always on the owners.

90%.

The players get some blame because they could very easily work some negotiations which provide more to Minor League players at the slight sacrifice of big individual salaries if nothing else. Baseball in the USA needs the minors, the local teams, and both owners and players have ignored that.

It's not like the NFLPA which sold out the rookies several years ago during their CBA, as at least baseball *does* have decent contracts for the little guys at the MLB level. But you gotta spend more on the up and comers.


What would you like the players to give back to the billionaire owners?
 
puffy999 [TotalFark]
2021-11-25 12:54:46 PM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: puffy999: It's not like the NFLPA which sold out the rookies several years ago during their CBA

Sold out the rookies?  Everyone, Owners and Vets alike hated that a first round pick that had never played a game was making more than 75% of the roster.

The last year of that structure Sam Bradford got $80 million.  His cap hit was the third highest on the team.


The absurd high level contracts is one thing, I agreed with negotiating top pick salaries down to something reasonable. The underpay of performers and lack of ability for lower picks who end up being stars to get paid quickly is ridiculous. They can't really hold out until year 4.

Gubbo: What would you like the players to give back to the billionaire owners?


Start with ending the $300m farking arms race, because a guy like Jacoby Ellsbury or old Albert Pujols made enough money he didn't deserve to fund an entire minor league. The MLBPA could actually get something decent in return, *liveable wages* for at *least* AA and AAA players would be a start.

Buuut, I have a feeling it's gonna be the same argument that American society makes. "Well we can't take anything from the RICH people. I might be rich myself one day, and that would hurt ME!"
 
Gubbo [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2021-11-25 1:05:27 PM  

puffy999: SirDigbyChickenCaesar: puffy999: It's not like the NFLPA which sold out the rookies several years ago during their CBA

Sold out the rookies?  Everyone, Owners and Vets alike hated that a first round pick that had never played a game was making more than 75% of the roster.

The last year of that structure Sam Bradford got $80 million.  His cap hit was the third highest on the team.

The absurd high level contracts is one thing, I agreed with negotiating top pick salaries down to something reasonable. The underpay of performers and lack of ability for lower picks who end up being stars to get paid quickly is ridiculous. They can't really hold out until year 4.

Gubbo: What would you like the players to give back to the billionaire owners?

Start with ending the $300m farking arms race, because a guy like Jacoby Ellsbury or old Albert Pujols made enough money he didn't deserve to fund an entire minor league. The MLBPA could actually get something decent in return, *liveable wages* for at *least* AA and AAA players would be a start.

Buuut, I have a feeling it's gonna be the same argument that American society makes. "Well we can't take anything from the RICH people. I might be rich myself one day, and that would hurt ME!"


So you're saying some kind of a salary cap to prevent players from being paid their market value.

How generous to the owners to give them that.
 
MSkow
2021-11-25 2:11:52 PM  
I find it so fascinating that guys making millions of dollars are subject to the consequences (and benefits) of collective bargaining. Yes, I do know the history of how we got here and realize they are making as much as they do because of it.

My mind always thinks of some truck driver or coal miner when things like arbitration and lockouts are mentioned, not some dude who's set to make $20 million dollars next year.
 
IAmRight [TotalFark]
2021-11-25 2:29:31 PM  

MSkow: I find it so fascinating that guys making millions of dollars are subject to the consequences (and benefits) of collective bargaining. Yes, I do know the history of how we got here and realize they are making as much as they do because of it.

My mind always thinks of some truck driver or coal miner when things like arbitration and lockouts are mentioned, not some dude who's set to make $20 million dollars next year.


Weirdly, I think most people in America have most of their union exposure via professional sports.
 
151 [OhFark]
2021-11-25 2:32:25 PM  

IAmRight: MSkow: I find it so fascinating that guys making millions of dollars are subject to the consequences (and benefits) of collective bargaining. Yes, I do know the history of how we got here and realize they are making as much as they do because of it.

My mind always thinks of some truck driver or coal miner when things like arbitration and lockouts are mentioned, not some dude who's set to make $20 million dollars next year.

Weirdly, I think most people in America have most of their union exposure via professional sports.


My first ever job, at 14, was at Meijer, which is Union. My father, great grandfather 3 uncles and an aunt were all UAW.

YMMV, I realize, because I'm from Detroit, but still. People know what unions are outside of sports, more often than not.
 
151 [OhFark]
2021-11-25 2:34:15 PM  
I'm dumb, I meant to say grandfather and great-grandfather. I know my dad worked at Union places but never uaw.
 
151 [OhFark]
2021-11-25 2:49:34 PM  

151: IAmRight: MSkow: I find it so fascinating that guys making millions of dollars are subject to the consequences (and benefits) of collective bargaining. Yes, I do know the history of how we got here and realize they are making as much as they do because of it.

My mind always thinks of some truck driver or coal miner when things like arbitration and lockouts are mentioned, not some dude who's set to make $20 million dollars next year.

Weirdly, I think most people in America have most of their union exposure via professional sports.

My first ever job, at 14, was at Meijer, which is Union. My father, great grandfather 3 uncles and an aunt were all UAW.

YMMV, I realize, because I'm from Detroit, but still. People know what unions are outside of sports, more often than not.


The more I think about it, it might just be the rust belt upbringing in me that makes me think this. Unions are obviously all over the country outside of sports, but maybe it's short-sighted of me to think they're as common elsewhere. FFS, there's some restaurants around here that are Union.
 
MSkow
2021-11-25 3:41:47 PM  

151: 151: IAmRight: MSkow: I find it so fascinating that guys making millions of dollars are subject to the consequences (and benefits) of collective bargaining. Yes, I do know the history of how we got here and realize they are making as much as they do because of it.

My mind always thinks of some truck driver or coal miner when things like arbitration and lockouts are mentioned, not some dude who's set to make $20 million dollars next year.

Weirdly, I think most people in America have most of their union exposure via professional sports.

My first ever job, at 14, was at Meijer, which is Union. My father, great grandfather 3 uncles and an aunt were all UAW.

YMMV, I realize, because I'm from Detroit, but still. People know what unions are outside of sports, more often than not.

The more I think about it, it might just be the rust belt upbringing in me that makes me think this. Unions are obviously all over the country outside of sports, but maybe it's short-sighted of me to think they're as common elsewhere. FFS, there's some restaurants around here that are Union.


I'm in Los Angeles, but we have similar viewpoints. I was in the UFCW from age 16 to 29 and my father in law is a longshoreman.
 
dywed88
2021-11-25 5:49:40 PM  

puffy999: Stud Gerbil: good timing, guys.   reminder that it's on the owners.   it's always on the owners.

90%.

The players get some blame because they could very easily work some negotiations which provide more to Minor League players at the slight sacrifice of big individual salaries if nothing else. Baseball in the USA needs the minors, the local teams, and both owners and players have ignored that.

It's not like the NFLPA which sold out the rookies several years ago during their CBA, as at least baseball *does* have decent contracts for the little guys at the MLB level. But you gotta spend more on the up and comers.


When did the NFLPA sell out the rookies?

The current CBA was agreed to by the rookies and others lower on the roster against the demands of the big names and long term veterans. In fact the NFL very clearly designed the CBA to do that.

Historically in both MLB and the NFL CBAs were always structured to favour the bigger names and longer term veterans rather than the new guys and people down the depth charts.
 
meanmutton
2021-11-26 8:30:31 AM  

ClavellBCMI: The owners will *not* agree to any new player contracts... until/unless the MLBPA knuckles under and gives the owners what they want.


Well, that was wrong: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32644225/mlb-free-agency-tracker-latest-moves-grades-analysis
 
meanmutton
2021-11-26 8:32:21 AM  

dywed88: puffy999: Stud Gerbil: good timing, guys.   reminder that it's on the owners.   it's always on the owners.

90%.

The players get some blame because they could very easily work some negotiations which provide more to Minor League players at the slight sacrifice of big individual salaries if nothing else. Baseball in the USA needs the minors, the local teams, and both owners and players have ignored that.

It's not like the NFLPA which sold out the rookies several years ago during their CBA, as at least baseball *does* have decent contracts for the little guys at the MLB level. But you gotta spend more on the up and comers.

When did the NFLPA sell out the rookies?

The current CBA was agreed to by the rookies and others lower on the roster against the demands of the big names and long term veterans. In fact the NFL very clearly designed the CBA to do that.

Historically in both MLB and the NFL CBAs were always structured to favour the bigger names and longer term veterans rather than the new guys and people down the depth charts.


Between the 2009 and 2010 seasons. Look at Matt Stafford's rookie deal in 2009 versus Sam Bradford's in 2010.
 
meanmutton
2021-11-26 8:35:13 AM  

meanmutton: dywed88: puffy999: Stud Gerbil: good timing, guys.   reminder that it's on the owners.   it's always on the owners.

90%.

The players get some blame because they could very easily work some negotiations which provide more to Minor League players at the slight sacrifice of big individual salaries if nothing else. Baseball in the USA needs the minors, the local teams, and both owners and players have ignored that.

It's not like the NFLPA which sold out the rookies several years ago during their CBA, as at least baseball *does* have decent contracts for the little guys at the MLB level. But you gotta spend more on the up and comers.

When did the NFLPA sell out the rookies?

The current CBA was agreed to by the rookies and others lower on the roster against the demands of the big names and long term veterans. In fact the NFL very clearly designed the CBA to do that.

Historically in both MLB and the NFL CBAs were always structured to favour the bigger names and longer term veterans rather than the new guys and people down the depth charts.

Between the 2009 and 2010 seasons. Look at Matt Stafford's rookie deal in 2009 versus Sam Bradford's in 2010.


Actually looks like it was in 2011 with Cam Newton's contract. Damn.

Stafford rookie contract: 5 years, $72 million
Bradford rookie contract: 5 years, $78 million
Newton rookie contract: 4 years, $22 million
 
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