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(CNBC)   Unretiring Boomers are ruining a perfectly good labor crunch. This is bad news... for Millennials   (cnbc.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Employment, Labor, unretirement rate, Labour economics, labor market, Wage slavery, small upward shifts, U.S. Census Bureau  
•       •       •

827 clicks; posted to Business » on 18 Nov 2021 at 1:41 AM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



37 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-11-17 9:18:03 PM  
Well, I'm back at work. There is a tremendous shortage of pilots in the country. They'll even hire old guys who will be forced to retire again in two years.
 
2021-11-17 10:22:30 PM  

edmo: Well, I'm back at work. There is a tremendous shortage of pilots in the country. They'll even hire old guys who will be forced to retire again in two years.


The high school I attended... had a program where after two years one could become a licensed private pilot (training and all) for about $500. Less, if not free, if one was low income.

They cut the program the year I started attending said high school.
 
2021-11-17 10:23:19 PM  
There was one guy I knew who was a pilot before he had his driving license.
 
2021-11-17 11:07:47 PM  
They heard that Gen Xers we're finally starting to be considered for long delayed promotions, and they couldn't allow that.
 
2021-11-18 3:17:00 AM  

puffy999: edmo: Well, I'm back at work. There is a tremendous shortage of pilots in the country. They'll even hire old guys who will be forced to retire again in two years.

The high school I attended... had a program where after two years one could become a licensed private pilot (training and all) for about $500. Less, if not free, if one was low income.

They cut the program the year I started attending said high school.


That's what we had Civil Air Patrol for.  Also certified glider pilots, because that's necessary.  Maybe they thought we were going to do another silent invasion of Normandy again one day
 
2021-11-18 3:35:26 AM  
It's always bad for millennials. We are used to being screwed over by boomers and Gen X.

It really freakin' sucks!
 
2021-11-18 5:53:06 AM  
So it's a good thing that people can't afford to remain retired now?

Oh, no, it's just good that enough people can't afford to remain retired so we can keep wages for labor lower. OK then, carry on.
 
2021-11-18 6:14:17 AM  
Will this be permanent? Considering that they're in their 60s to 70s, I think that folks can just wait this one out for them simply to drop dead. Well, that and the jobs that they're being considered for only screw over those who had dreams of management. Just another way to swoop back in and c*ckblock the folks who have been toiling beneath them for years anyway.
 
2021-11-18 6:14:59 AM  

eKonk: So it's a good thing that people can't afford to remain retired now?

Oh, no, it's just good that enough people can't afford to remain retired so we can keep wages for labor lower. OK then, carry on.


What's retirement?
 
2021-11-18 6:15:45 AM  

hubiestubert: Will this be permanent? Considering that they're in their 60s to 70s, I think that folks can just wait this one out for them simply to drop dead. Well, that and the jobs that they're being considered for only screw over those who had dreams of management. Just another way to swoop back in and c*ckblock the folks who have been toiling beneath them for years anyway.


Now, now, that's ageism.

Only young people are allowed to have a boot on their necks.
 
2021-11-18 6:27:26 AM  

edmo: Well, I'm back at work. There is a tremendous shortage of pilots in the country. They'll even hire old guys who will be forced to retire again in two years.


Sounds like the kind of thing that might be solved by an aggressive training program. 

Advertisement : 

"WOULD YOU LIKE TO DEFY GRAVITY AND FLY LIKE A GOD THROUGH THE HEAVENS?"

Come to our storefront at 225 Jericho Turnpike and, passing a short physical, we'll put you in the DELTA/UNITED Airline pilot school where we'll train you for one of the most high-demand jobs in only 12 weeks. 

What?

No, training is excessively expensive and most pilots spend a decade in grinding long shiatty flights for very little pay ?

I see, maybe you need to make training cheaper ?
 
2021-11-18 6:47:36 AM  
rubi_con_man:

My brothers best friend is a pilot with a major carrier in the US. He went to flight school (Embry-Riddle) in Arizona. 300k in debt and his first job was paying like 30-something K doing regional flights on props. Now he's a left seater (that's the copilot right?) flying national flights. Don't know what his pay is now but he's in debt the rest of his life to fly.
 
2021-11-18 6:48:51 AM  
It helps when you have specialized legacy skills that nobody has bothered to learn.
 
2021-11-18 7:14:46 AM  
Nobody is being screwed by some other nobody.  No one is stealing your job.

Lump of labor fallacy.
 
2021-11-18 7:23:09 AM  
Buried in TFA : the "unretirement" rate is still lower than it was pre-pandemic.

But yeah, let's not screw up this labor crunch. Living wages aren't a bad thing. Your sandwich isn't going to cost 25% more if they have to pay the workers 25% more.
 
2021-11-18 7:53:49 AM  
What CNBC thinks a retiree looks like:
image.cnbcfm.comView Full Size
 
2021-11-18 7:55:03 AM  
Person un-retiring: I don't get it. I wore a nice shirt, I went to the main office, asked the receptionist to speak to the hiring manager and they told me to apply online. How am I supposed to hand over my resume and give the manager a nice form handshake when I apply online?
 
2021-11-18 8:00:01 AM  

Stile4aly: They heard that Gen Xers we're finally starting to be considered for long delayed promotions, and they couldn't allow that.

Sam's Club Sandwich: It's always bad for millennials. We are used to being screwed over by boomers and Gen X.


The two do go hand-in-hand, and it's rolling down to the Zoomers.

"Why does this entry-level position require five years of experience, a cert, and like 15 different tech competencies?"

"Well, all the people currently in those entry-level positions have that much experience. You pretty much need it to do what they're doing. It wouldn't be fair to them to hire someone far weaker than them for the same entry-level pay they're getting."

"Have you considered that some of those workers might not actually be entry-level? That they've been here eight years?"

"(quizzical dog)"
 
2021-11-18 8:03:04 AM  

Sam's Club Sandwich: It's always bad for millennials. We are used to being screwed over by boomers and Gen X.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-11-18 8:04:51 AM  
I watched our company hire outside management because No one wanted to move up for less pay.
Then the hire fell flat on her face.
Rather than admit the error, they moved her sideways.
She makes shiatty training videos for stuff she knows nothing about.
And they keep getting outside managers. Who all quit after a few months.
Those metrics speak volumes, but are ignored in favor of cutting payroll in the cost center, and slashing QC.
 
2021-11-18 8:09:42 AM  

rubi_con_man: edmo: Well, I'm back at work. There is a tremendous shortage of pilots in the country. They'll even hire old guys who will be forced to retire again in two years.

Sounds like the kind of thing that might be solved by an aggressive training program. 

Advertisement : 

"WOULD YOU LIKE TO DEFY GRAVITY AND FLY LIKE A GOD THROUGH THE HEAVENS?"

Come to our storefront at 225 Jericho Turnpike and, passing a short physical, we'll put you in the DELTA/UNITED Airline pilot school where we'll train you for one of the most high-demand jobs in only 12 weeks. 

What?

No, training is excessively expensive and most pilots spend a decade in grinding long shiatty flights for very little pay ?

I see, maybe you need to make training cheaper ?


A big part of the issue is that they CAN'T. Flight training has a single digit margin, despite massive revenues. The aircraft cost $100/hr+ to fly, plus instructors, and pilots need 2,000 hours in seat time before they can be 2nd in command. Since few can afford to pay for all that flight time, they end up as flight instructors at $15-25/hr to build time.

Believe me, if it could be cheaper, it would be.
Source: friend runs flying school, I'm his partner.
 
2021-11-18 8:26:26 AM  

Reverend J: What CNBC thinks a retiree looks like:
[image.cnbcfm.com image 516x290]


The dude may be a little young, the tech might be a little too glossy.  But, I've lost track of the number of 70-something guys who have been retired for over a decade who have the whole "I'm a serious businessman" cosplay room in their house with the filing cabinet, veneer desk from Office Depot, three Stephen Covey books and the Newton's Cradle toy.  Some of them never had offices like that in their career days, retired a cube-holder or, hell, truck driver.  But that was their near-universal Boomer aspiration.
 
2021-11-18 8:36:37 AM  
I understand it if we're talking about people that weren't financially set up for retirement that got forced out - they didn't really "retire," they were "retirement eligible and lost their job."  If we're talking about people who retired and found that they just can't let it go, fark em.

I have done everything (reasonably) possible to be in a position to retire at age 52 and fully intend to leave at the earliest. I don't want to spend my 50s and 60s having to be somewhere, I want to get out of the way of kids that want my job. There is no circumstance that I can envision that would make me wish to "unretire."
 
2021-11-18 9:06:14 AM  

vudukungfu: I watched our company hire outside management because No one wanted to move up for less pay.
Then the hire fell flat on her face.
Rather than admit the error, they moved her sideways.
She makes shiatty training videos for stuff she knows nothing about.
And they keep getting outside managers. Who all quit after a few months.
Those metrics speak volumes, but are ignored in favor of cutting payroll in the cost center, and slashing QC.


Eliminate that layer of management. Problem solved.
 
2021-11-18 9:07:06 AM  

rubi_con_man: edmo: Well, I'm back at work. There is a tremendous shortage of pilots in the country. They'll even hire old guys who will be forced to retire again in two years.

Sounds like the kind of thing that might be solved by an aggressive training program. 

Advertisement : 

"WOULD YOU LIKE TO DEFY GRAVITY AND FLY LIKE A GOD THROUGH THE HEAVENS?"

Come to our storefront at 225 Jericho Turnpike and, passing a short physical, we'll put you in the DELTA/UNITED Airline pilot school where we'll train you for one of the most high-demand jobs in only 12 weeks. 

What?

No, training is excessively expensive and most pilots spend a decade in grinding long shiatty flights for very little pay ?

I see, maybe you need to make training cheaper ?


Way, way back in the early 1960s, companies like United would hire people with ZERO experience and train them to be pilots. Slowly, the industry is drifting towards that model again.

It is an excellent field to get into but expensive.  Add to that, half the airline pilot jobs are at regionals these days and the pay is far less than at the big guys. The military, which is short as well, is always a good option. Downside include tough entrance standards and big commitments in time and sacrifice, and you might get shot at.

It's still an attractive field and if you start now, you'll likely have a front row seat to the AI revolution removing pilots altogether in a few decades.
 
2021-11-18 9:37:11 AM  

vudukungfu: I watched our company hire outside management because No one wanted to move up for less pay.
Then the hire fell flat on her face.
Rather than admit the error, they moved her sideways.
She makes shiatty training videos for stuff she knows nothing about.
And they keep getting outside managers. Who all quit after a few months.
Those metrics speak volumes, but are ignored in favor of cutting payroll in the cost center, and slashing QC.


About 3 years ago my job did that the guy that hired this tyrant thought we needed "order and discipline" and she could do it because she was a cop in the navy. We had a great team back then, knew their jobs, got shiat done and clients were happy. She came in started firing people on the 3rd day, we had a bunch quit because of her. She kept on trying to get us to snitch on each other and we caught onto that quick when she was trying to get us all on her side against the others. She wanted me to report to her whenever my old boss called me because she thought she was trying to get dirt on her. It was an epic shiatshow and she was only here from July to November and the damage she did we are still feeling today. We do finally have a good boss but still trying to put together a good team has been hard, especially the last year with covid.
 
2021-11-18 9:43:42 AM  

Sam's Club Sandwich: It's always bad for millennials. We are used to being screwed over by boomers and Gen X.

It really freakin' sucks!


If you're getting screwed over by my generation(x), you must be pretty weak sauce...
 
2021-11-18 9:50:48 AM  

FlippityFlap: Sam's Club Sandwich: It's always bad for millennials. We are used to being screwed over by boomers and Gen X.

It really freakin' sucks!

If you're getting screwed over by my generation(x), you must be pretty weak sauce...


LOL!  Damn I wish I could double like this comment.
 
2021-11-18 10:07:26 AM  
People retired because no one wanted to hire an employee in their 60s. (It was illegal, but any HR person will tell you it's easy to do).

Now that younger folks refuse to work anymore the market has wised up, and older folks are taking advantage of it.

This is a self-inflicted wound Millennials. Get out, go to work, stop expecting to be babied and you too, one day, might be able to retire. I can assure you, sitting home mooching off the parents will not fund retirement.
 
2021-11-18 10:23:11 AM  
I guess it's cool that a grandparents gets yelled at by patrons at an increased rate.

If you've retired and are so bored or poor that you need a job, I'm sorry life worked out that way for you.

If you're a middle aged manager hiring grandparents, get ready to enjoy their shiat. It's the same as young people shiat but harder to shoot down.

I appreciate all the grandparents going back to work to support their millennial kids.   Hahahahahahahaha. But seriously you did destroy the planet and doom your descendants to wage slavery with you're votes so it is the least you can do.
 
2021-11-18 10:59:08 AM  

Stile4aly: They heard that Gen Xers we're finally starting to be considered for long delayed promotions, and they couldn't allow that.


Actually, as a millennial I think Gen X did get screwed over by the boomers more than millennials did when it comes to them retiring when they did, in a completely different way though.  Say you've got a boomer mid level manager that retired a little early due to the pandemic... if you're his boss, do you replace him with the 55 year old gen X low level manager or do you go with the 40 year old millennial low level manager?

Replacing a manager typically causes a lot of turbulence and disrupts work for a while, with the Gen Xer you might have to go through that all again in 4.5 years.  With the millennial you're probably just going to have to deal with a midlife crisis in which he buys a sports car and starts banging his secretary for a while at some point, but if you're a board member, you'll probably be retired before you have to replace him.

The retirees returning to work weren't soaking up the good jobs though.  Those have already been filled by older millennials and they probably had enough money to actually retire.  Think Walmart greeters working part time so they can still withdraw their "full" social security benefits.
 
2021-11-18 11:01:03 AM  

eKonk: So it's a good thing that people can't afford to remain retired now?

Oh, no, it's just good that enough people can't afford to remain retired so we can keep wages for labor lower. OK then, carry on.


The 1% r doing better than they ever have so theres that
 
2021-11-18 11:06:39 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Nobody is being screwed by some other nobody.  No one is stealing your job.

Lump of labor fallacy.


No one except automation and AI.....
 
2021-11-18 11:19:06 AM  

Ray_Finkle: Person un-retiring: I don't get it. I wore a nice shirt, I went to the main office, asked the receptionist to speak to the hiring manager and they told me to apply online. How am I supposed to hand over my resume and give the manager a nice form handshake when I apply online?


Its called automation and AI

Sucks for most of us

Great for sit at home stock owners
 
2021-11-18 2:23:50 PM  

Daer21: rubi_con_man: edmo: Well, I'm back at work. There is a tremendous shortage of pilots in the country. They'll even hire old guys who will be forced to retire again in two years.

Sounds like the kind of thing that might be solved by an aggressive training program. 

Advertisement : 

"WOULD YOU LIKE TO DEFY GRAVITY AND FLY LIKE A GOD THROUGH THE HEAVENS?"

Come to our storefront at 225 Jericho Turnpike and, passing a short physical, we'll put you in the DELTA/UNITED Airline pilot school where we'll train you for one of the most high-demand jobs in only 12 weeks. 

What?

No, training is excessively expensive and most pilots spend a decade in grinding long shiatty flights for very little pay ?

I see, maybe you need to make training cheaper ?

A big part of the issue is that they CAN'T. Flight training has a single digit margin, despite massive revenues. The aircraft cost $100/hr+ to fly, plus instructors, and pilots need 2,000 hours in seat time before they can be 2nd in command. Since few can afford to pay for all that flight time, they end up as flight instructors at $15-25/hr to build time.

Believe me, if it could be cheaper, it would be.
Source: friend runs flying school, I'm his partner.


Let me rephrase it: "I see, maybe you need to make training cheaper for the trainees?"

If the majors can't find enough qualified pilots, they could fund scholarships, create their own dedicated flight schools or partner with existing ones, sponsor training for the specific aircraft they want, lots of possibilities. The current system of "others bear all the cost of training" isn't working for them anymore, so they might just have to change.
 
2021-11-18 9:53:52 PM  

Sam's Club Sandwich: It's always bad for millennials. We are used to being screwed over by boomers and Gen X.

It really freakin' sucks!


Look on the light side.  At least you have plenty to whine about.
 
2021-11-19 4:17:38 AM  

lizyrd: I understand it if we're talking about people that weren't financially set up for retirement that got forced out - they didn't really "retire," they were "retirement eligible and lost their job."  If we're talking about people who retired and found that they just can't let it go, fark em.

I have done everything (reasonably) possible to be in a position to retire at age 52 and fully intend to leave at the earliest. I don't want to spend my 50s and 60s having to be somewhere, I want to get out of the way of kids that want my job. There is no circumstance that I can envision that would make me wish to "unretire."


This
 
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